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[Anony]

(wall of text incoming)

The technology, both software and hardware existed for years and years now.
I'm trying to understand exactly what it is, and it all sounds like PR too me.

This is my understanding of it, i don't know if i'm right, so can someone explain it to me
There's 2 aspects of it, software and hardware:

For software, this was introduced (my first exposure to it at least) was the source engine, it was one of the biggest selling points/technological achievements for the engine.
at the end of the day, in software, you're manipulating how the lighting works and is displayed, thus giving the HDR effect.
It's been so many years since, that i assumed all game engines use HDR as lighting to some degree, but they way sony and microsoft puts it, this is some new thing that can only game developers are programming for now and needs to be switched on? (this part confuses me)

Which leads me to the hardware. HDR enabled games will only work on HDR screens. This I somewhat get.
If you can't display the colours accurately, you'll never see the details.
As a pc monitor user, I (believe) have never had this problem though. My monitor, the dell u2410, is a 8-bit panel with 10-bit (or 12-bit) internal colour processor, which is a top tier colour reproducer for its time (and should still hold up today).
I know that most monitors, even some low tier ips panels are still 6-bit in colour.

tl;dr
Is 'HDR' enabled tvs just the non technical term for 10-bit panels?
If so, I should have had a pseudo 'true' HDR experience for a long time now since my monitor was capable to processing 10 (or 12) bits of colour.
Were game previously not programmed for HDR; in lighting or colour palette usage (developers were using less than 10 bits of colour all this time)

:answer:

This is a related but different technique called HDRR. It uses internal HDR buffers, but the result are tone-mapped down to SDR with a bloom effect to simulate overbrightness. a HDR display could display a much larger brightness range natively, without the use of bloom.

Software developers need to change the output format and the way the tone-mapping works.

The number of bits only tell you the amount of brightness steps, but not the range or distribution of said steps. HDR monitors have a peak brightness and use a transfer function called SMPTE.2084 (or HLG) instead of the "gamma" curves SDR monitors use.

HDR =
* 10 bit + panel
* High contrast panel (FALD LED LCD or OLED, some projectors)
* High peak brightness (>500 nits)
* SMPTE.2084 (for HDR10 and DolbyVision) and/or HLG transfer function support.
* Metadata support for tone-mapping.
* Usually also come with wide color gamut.

Nope, there are no consumer HDR monitors available right now.

i'll add more as there are better answers

 

[Z3M0G]

Because Sony made it a thing during the conference.

If they hadn't mentioned it 100 times, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

 

[Warnen]

Because Sony made it a thing during the conference.

If they hadn't mentioned it 100 times, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

Id say it started with MS at E3

 

[Give War A Chance]

Because Sony made it a thing during the conference.

If they hadn't mentioned it 100 times, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

Just for posterity, Microsoft mentioned it a bunch talking about Scorpio at E3 as well.

However Sony did really REALLY lean into it.

 

[Servbot24]

Because Sony made it a thing during the conference.

If they hadn't mentioned it 100 times, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

TV manufacturers have been talking about it for a long time. Game developers have been talking about it all this year.

 

[Z3M0G]

Id say it started with MS at E3

I wasn't even aware they brought it up... it certainly didn't spark 20 threads like Sony did.

 

[TBiddy]

I wasn't even aware they brought it up... it certainly didn't spark 20 threads like Sony did.

You didn't know about the Xbox One S?

Because they didn't actually say anything about their console or reveal anything other than a NeoGAF thread that we all already knew.

They talked quite a bit about the XB1S.

 

[Give War A Chance]

I wasn't even aware they brought it up... it certainly didn't spark 20 threads like Sony did.

Because they didn't actually say anything about their console or reveal anything other than a NeoGAF thread that we all already knew.

More to the point OP: if you're comparing your PC rig to a console, I think you have your answer, don't you? PS4 and Xbox One just got HDR technology "activated" in their ecosystems, so of course it's going to be a thing now.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

It's like 3D games back in 2011, I think the difference is that I think it's gonna stick and won't be like other gimmicks.

I just saw Mad Max Fury Road on a Samsung KS8000 at Best Buy and that was an experience. HDR just like VR is something you have to experience for yourself to he sold on it. So difficult to market and get the messaging across.

 

[TheMoon]

Because 3D is out and 4k+HDR is the new thing for TVs right now so you gotta hang your hat on that to push both at the same time.

 

[potatohead]

TV manufacturers have been talking about it for a long time. Game developers have been talking about it all this year.

Yup. Technology moves forward. Companies start advertising it.

No conspiracy here guys.

 

[shouamabane]

Display technology improves. HDR is just a term used to describe that improvement.

 

[JamboGT]

HDR in the source engine is a different thing to HDR in televisions.

 

[inki]

Because it's going to become a standard and price has finally come down enough for the average consumer to bring it into your home (and will make money for the companies selling it to you).

 

[statham]

I wasn't even aware they brought it up... it certainly didn't spark 20 threads like Sony did.

The XBO S model has it right now. Forza Horizon 3 is launching with HDR.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Id say it started with MS at E3

They didn't go through the same lengths Sony did to explain HDR. Microsoft name dropped HDR once or twice but if you didn't know what it was you still didn't by the end of the conference.

 

[ambar_hitman]

HDR currently talked about is not same as HDR in Source engine.

 

[StoOgE]

As someone with HDR content (Netflix) on a 4K/HDR set...

man, it looks a lot more lifelike. Especially really high contrast scenes (sunset out the window in a dimly lit house).

Edit: Also, this HDR is *NOT* the same thing that has been in certain game engines for 10+ years. That's just a trick to recreate the eye adjusting to low/high light changes.

 

[formasymphonic]

because 3D flopped and they need something to pair with 4k to make new TVs more attractive than 1080p sets people already have in their houses.

...Also, on the content creation side, wider gamut media can be implemented relatively inexpensively during the capture/creation processes compared to something like increased asset sizes or a lot of the extra work that 3D required.

 

[Warnen]

I wasn't even aware they brought it up... it certainly didn't spark 20 threads like Sony did.

Xbox One S pushed HDR into gaming, Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 3 featured it, they made a huge deal out of it at E3 and since.


I didn't even know what HDR was before MS conference and most of gaming media didn't know either.


Sony just next one to talk about, and since both major platforms support it now, its worth talking about/upgrading.

 

[Blablurn]

I had no idea this was such a huge thing. Even after the Xbox conference during E3.

 

[platina]

Which leads me to the hardware. HDR enabled games will only work on HDR screens. This I somewhat get.
If you can't display the colours accurately, you'll never see the details.
As a pc monitor user, I (believe) have never had this problem though. My monitor, the dell u2410, is a 8-bit panel with 10-bit (or 12-bit) internal colour processor, which is a top tier colour reproducer for its time (and should still hold up today).
I know that most monitors, even some low tier ips panels are still 6-bit in colour.

tl;dr
Is 'HDR' enabled tvs just the non technical term for 10-bit panels?
If so, I should have had a pseudo 'true' HDR experience for a long time now since my monitor was capable to processing 10 (or 12) bits of colour.
Were game previously not programmed for HDR; in lighting or colour palette usage (developers were using less than 10 bits of colour all this time)

I would like to know this as well as i have a true 10 bit panel. To my understanding, games are currently 8 bit. Maybe we can see hdr colors just not the amazing contrast? Don't know

 

[darthkarki]

The HDR technology discussed today in relation to screens and consoles is completely different to what was called HDR in the source engine and games since then.

Source engine HDR (and the "HDR" effect in other games) is basically faking the way your eye adjusts to light, by dynamically adjusting the brightness of different areas. For example, when you are in a dark tunnel and look outside, it looks super bright, but when you go outside, the outdoor lighting adjusts to normal levels and the tunnel looks super dark. This all happened on normal, non-HDR displays.

Current HDR is a display technology, allowing the screens to actually show the real difference in bright and dark areas, instead of faking it. It allows much higher contrast and a much wider range of color.

I don't know the details of your monitor, but no actual "HDR" monitors exist at the moment. You are not seeing "HDR" content on your screen.

As for why it's becoming more popular right now, I don't know. Maybe it wasn't technically feasible before. Maybe there just wasn't enough demand.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Xbox One S pushed HDR into gaming, Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 3 featured it, they made a huge deal out of it at E3 and since.


I didn't even know what HDR was before MS conference and most of gaming media didn't know either.


Sony just next one to talk about, and since both major platforms support it now, its worth talking about/upgrading.

I must be remembering wrong, I thought HDR only featured via name in the short Xbox One S trailer? Can't recall them making a big deal out of it and I certainly didn't know what it was until looking it up myself later.

 

[NeoRaider]

It's mostly PR by MS/Sony. Specially from Sony since they are in the TV business as well. To make new and expensive TVs more attractive and to sell them.

 

[Sjefen]

This is how you move hardware. Its been like this since the dawn of gaming. This gen its been VR and HDR. And teraflops whatever that is...

 

[joms5]

Because they're running out of gimmicks to make consumers buy a new television.

First it was colour TV, then flat screen, then widescreen, then lcd/plasma, then led, then 3d, then smart, then curved, then oled, then 4k/uhd, and now it's hdr.

This will continue to happen until almost forever.

 

[Brat-Sampson]

3D didn't sell TVs, 4K isn't pushing them as much as they'd like...

Gotta pimp *something*.

As to whether it's actually a big difference, or how it compares to recent high-grade monitors... I have no idea.

 

[Bsigg12]

HDR for TVs describes the ability of a TV to support a 10 or 12 bit color gamut as well as support for an increased contrast ratio. It is a major change for TVs.

HDR as a whole is more important to the changes coming to TV than 4K.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Does HDR stand for High Dynamic Range?

 

[jelly]

I'll be right there with HDR when my TV breaks and I buy a new one.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I had no idea this was such a huge thing. Even after the Xbox conference during E3.

ditto this.

 

[jmdajr]

HDR has never been mainstream (10-bit wide range color gamuts). Even now it will take some time.

I'm ok with progress but don't like to over pay.

 

[dark10x]

Marketing people really screwed. So many folks seem to thing that game engine HDR (circa 2004) is the same as TV HDR being discussed today. They share the same name and deal with similar concepts, I suppose, but they are completely different. It is not just a gimmick either.

3D didn't sell TVs, 4K isn't pushing them as much as they'd like...

Gotta pimp *something*.

As to whether it's actually a big difference, or how it compares to recent high-grade monitors... I have no idea.

I will say this - a proper HDR image on the right display looks dramatically better than any standard non-HDR display. There is no comparison.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Does HDR stand for High Dynamic Range?

Yes it does

 

[Jackpot]

So HDR in the Source engine and other games was just the surge in brightness/dimness when you transitioned from indoor and outdoor areas, e.g. leaving a dark tunnel in a racing game.

So what does it mean in this context? A greater range of colours?

 

[statham]

It's mostly PR by MS/Sony. Specially from Sony since they are in the TV business to sell new TVs.

Its not PR, and MS is the only console this fall that will have 4K HDR bluray drive, I would say MS is pushing more in this field currently.

 

[ItsDorf]

So someone explain to me why HDR is relevant on PS4 when it requires HDMI 2.0 and a 4K TV? They pushed a firmware with it with 4.0 but as far as I know maybe wrong but 1080p TV's don't support HDR and PS4 standard doesn't support 4K.. Whats the point?

So you can hook your PS4 up to a 4K tv and play at 1080p with hdr? (doesn't HDMI 2.0 need to be in place or does it work over 1.4)?? Seems like some PR hey we can do this also without it actually working.

 

[Nibel]

It's one of the big buzzwords right now to sell hardware but also rather new and great tech

 

[Z3M0G]

3D didn't sell TVs, 4K isn't pushing them as much as they'd like...

Gotta pimp *something*.

As to whether it's actually a big difference, or how it compares to recent high-grade monitors... I have no idea.

HDR is the better pimp anyways...

When you walk into a Best Buy, and you see a 4K TV with an amazing demo playing, the reason you are going "WOW" is more the HDR color than the resolution.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Does HDR stand for High Dynamic Range?

Yeah, but from what I'm reading HDR monitors/TVs just use HDR as a marketing term. HDR for the hardware is just a standard of a minimum level of quality of brightness, contrast ratio, color depth (10 bits), etc, all together it can produce a very 'dynamic' image, that reminds of High Dynamic Range techniques, which is why the standard took that moniker.

 

[LowRoller]

Hdr is not a buzzword . It really does make a difference

 

[BumRush]

As someone with HDR content (Netflix) on a 4K/HDR set...

man, it looks a lot more lifelike. Especially really high contrast scenes (sunset out the window in a dimly lit house).

Edit: Also, this HDR is *NOT* the same thing that has been in certain game engines for 10+ years. That's just a trick to recreate the eye adjusting to low/high light changes.

Yup, sunset-type scenes look unbelievably real. It gives you that "your tv is a window" effect that non-HDR sets just can't truly do.

 

[gofreak]

So what does it mean in this context? A greater range of colours?

I'n not totally au fait with all this, but yes, more colour precision. And when driving a HDR display with the right data (not what was in Source 10+ years ago), a much greater range of displayed brightness, so bright things actually look bright, dark things dark etc, without loss of details.

I guess we are talking about it now because Sony advocated it as the second-coming in a highly-watched announcement, and corroborating impressions and the experience of those who've already seen HDR stuff on HDR screens seems to back that up to some extent.

 

[StoOgE]

The standard "what is HDR" image:

Of course, this is displayed on your non HDR monitor, so they have to play down the "non HDR" photo to show the comparison. But given the content I've seen in HDR, this is a fair comparison.

 

[+Aliken+]

Two reasons.
1. We have TVs that can handle it
2. it does make a difference not like 4K or 1080p on a 30inchTV

 

[Jonneh3003]

So someone explain to me why HDR is relevant on PS4 when it requires HDMI 2.0 and a 4K TV? They pushed a firmware with it with 4.0 but as far as I know maybe wrong but 1080p TV's don't support HDR and PS4 standard doesn't support 4K.. Whats the point?

So you can hook your PS4 up to a 4K tv and play at 1080p with hdr? (doesn't HDMI 2.0 need to be in place or does it work over 1.4)?? Seems like some PR hey we can do this also without it actually working.

PS4's got the HDR patch yesterday, I think there are HDR 1080p screen out there and if not then you would just do 1080p in HDR on a 4K screen. When the PS4 Pro comes out games will start to be patched to take advantage of the new range of colours.

 

[Warnen]

I must be remembering wrong, I thought HDR only featured via name in the short Xbox One S trailer? Can't recall them making a big deal out of it and I certainly didn't know what it was until looking it up myself later.

Well like Sony thing you really can't show it on streams or tv, they did mention it during the game announcements and Scorpio stuff too.

I remember watching the E3 Giantbomb thing and none of them knew what HDR even was. If not for MS making a deal out of it at E3 doubt people would even know what Sony was trying to push at Pro event.

 

[diablos991]

Anybody who listens to TV manufacturers, Microsoft, or even checks out the latest TVs at Best Buy would have known this was a thing way before the Sony conference.

 

[Stairouais]

Because 60fps doesn't sell.