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[Manos]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

 

[exemp30]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Mr-Joker]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

Plus VR lacks the social element to it so it won't repeating the same motion control Wii Sport experience that drove sales of the Wii through the roof.

And no, having one person wearing the VR while another people watch the TV is not social as the player is cut off from that experience.

VR will end up being niche item and quickly forgotten about.

 

[robotrock]

Plus VR lacks the social element to it so it won't repeating the same motion control Wii Sport experience that drove sales of the Wii through the roof.

And no, having one person wearing the VR while another people watch the TV is not social as the player is cut off from that experience.

VR will end up being niche item and quickly forgotten about.

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Flandy]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

Plus VR lacks the social element to it so it won't repeating the same motion control Wii Sport experience that drove sales of the Wii through the roof.

And no, having one person wearing the VR while another people watch the TV is not social as the player is cut off from that experience.

VR will end up being niche item and quickly forgotten about.

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Tagyhag]

- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.

Come on now, you already have titles released showing that's not true at all.

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.

 

[JustenP88]

Plus VR lacks the social element to it so it won't repeating the same motion control Wii Sport experience that drove sales of the Wii through the roof.

And no, having one person wearing the VR while another people watch the TV is not social as the player is cut off from that experience.

VR will end up being niche item and quickly forgotten about.

That's a weird criticism. Do you look other people in the eyes when you're playing video games with them?

 

[Manos]

VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.

Come on now, you already have titles released showing that's not true at all.

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.

If "that's not true" then send me some genres.
Would you play an Action game, Sports or Strategy with VR? Let's be specific.
Even if it does better than Rift it won't sell more than 5% of the total PS4 consoles.

 

[chubigans]

And no, having one person wearing the VR while another people watch the TV is not social as the player is cut off from that experience.

As someone who has demoed the VIVE to multiple friends and family, sometimes with 8 people all at once watching the social screen, you are 100% wrong. Dead wrong.

 

[Belfast]

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.




If "that's not true" then send me some genres.
Would you play an Action game, Sports or Strategy with VR? Let's be specific.
Even if it does better than Rift it won't sell more than 5% of the total PS4 consoles.

Yes? All three of those genres exist on the various platforms already.

 

[Elandyll]

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.




If "that's not true" then send me some genres.
Would you play an Action game, Sports or Strategy with VR? Let's be specific.
Even if it does better than Rift it won't sell more than 5% of the total PS4 consoles.

Shouldn't 4 million units (if PS4 ends at +/- 80m) be ok for a 1st gen VR device at $399-$499?
What would you consider a success, given the limits (cables/ immersion not working on everyone) bound to the 1st gen devices so far?

 

[dracula_x]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

I would say it's pretty optimistic number.

 

[Eusis]

At worst I expect VR will keep popping in and out of existence until it reaches a level that's truly worth it for everyone. Perhaps some actual brain connectivity, or just way higher resolution displays for cheap. I mean, it came and floundered in the 90s, there'd be another shot in a decade or two if it doesn't work out now as we make more advancements that merit another look.

 

[Lukemon]

As someone who has demoed the VIVE to multiple friends and family, sometimes with 8 people all at once watching the social screen, you are 100% wrong. Dead wrong.

And watching the player as well as the screen, which is often even better. Must be said, I wasn't sold on this aspect of VR either until I saw it first-hand, but it really does work as a social thing.

 

[farisr]

Are you trying to make an argument for why Sony shouldn't make it available for download?

Sorry if I'm misreading the tone and intent of Marty's and your posts, it just seemed to me you were stating reasons against the point of having it on the store.

Yeah, you misread it. He was only trying to make the argument for why someone would want to use the demo disc despite there being an option to download it.

 

[kyser73]

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.




If "that's not true" then send me some genres.
Would you play an Action game, Sports or Strategy with VR? Let's be specific.
Even if it does better than Rift it won't sell more than 5% of the total PS4 consoles.

How lazy can you get? Just google 'VR RTS games' or 'VR Sports games'.

But since you are lazy:

3rd person adventure games Edge Of Nowhere from Insomniac

VR Strategy games

Selfie Tennis on the Vive

Headmaster on PSVR

5% of the current PS4 install base is 2 million units. I think Sony will be more than happy if they sell that much over the next 2 years.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

So looking at the review scores it seems that aside from a few flaws, this thing works as intended?

 

[0racle]

The only thing that is going to do PSVR in is the price.

Niche games, tech demos aside if the thing cost 200 as a base unit it would be sold out for months. All the issues with PSVR in the limelight are due to its cost, and rightfully so. I bet all current issues would be 100% forgiveable if it was priced right. Now they are huge barriers that I don't think they can recover from. Even if this unit was 100% flawless, the MSRP would still be an issue.


Sony is taking a risk with VR, they should have sold at a loss just to push units, grab the entire marketare and plant roots for further devices they release. They would have made money from cameras, controllers and software.

I think sony killed themselves with this unit. It will sell out initially, but collect dust, suffer from software that won't get any better than what we see now.

 

[DudeWithNoName]

That's a weird criticism. Do you look other people in the eyes when you're playing video games with them?

Only while teabagging them in game. It adds to the insult.

 

[TLZ]

Is motion sickness really a thing? I pre-ordered this back in March thinking they got rid of motion sickness that somehow plagued early units to an extent. I thought the whole point was them to make sure they got motion sickness sorted and very consumer friendly. Please don't disappoint me.

 

[0racle]

Is motion sickness really a thing? I pre-ordered this back in March thinking they got rid of motion sickness that somehow plagued early units to an extent. I thought the whole point was them to make sure they got motion picture sorted and very consumer friendly. Please don't disappoint me.

I got sick in battle zone and Eve valkarie before the demo was over.

 

[TLZ]

I got sick in battle zone and Eve valkarie before the demo was over.

After how long? Any headaches? That's very disappointing for me I really think I might cancel now.

 

[0racle]

After how long? Any headaches? That's very disappointing for me I really think I might cancel now.

I made it through Eve valkarie, I had to stop the demo for battle zone.


And this wasn't one demo after another, two separate demos weeks apart.

 

[Belfast]

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.




If "that's not true" then send me some genres.
Would you play an Action game, Sports or Strategy with VR? Let's be specific.
Even if it does better than Rift it won't sell more than 5% of the total PS4 consoles.

100 Ft. Robot Golf - Sports/Action
Ace Banana - Arcade Shooter
Batman VR - Narrative Adventure
Battlezone - Arcade Shooter
Bound - Platformer
Drive Club - Racing
Eve: Gunjack - Arcade Shooter
Eve: Valkyrie - Space Shooter
Harmonix Music VR - Visualizer
Hatsune Miku - Rhythm
Headmaster - Skill/Action
Here They Lie - Horror
Hustle Kings VR - Sports
Job Simulator - Uhh... "Simulator"
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes - Puzzle/Action
Loading Human - Adventure
Super Stardust Ultra VR - Arcade Shooter
Playstation VR Worlds - Various
Rez Infinite - Rhythm/Action
RIGS - Sports/Action
Rise of the Tomb Raider: Blood Ties (Add-on) - Narrative Adventure
Superhypercube - Puzzle
The Assembly - Narrative Adventure
The Playroom VR - Puzzle/Action
Thumber - Rhythm/Action
Tumble VR - Puzzle
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood - Rail Shooter
Volume: Coda - Stealth/Strategy
Wayward Sky - Puzzle/Adventure
World War Toons - Multiplayer FPS
Pixel Gear - Arcade Shooter
Weeping Doll - Horror/Narrative Adventure
Carnival Games - Skill/Action
Waddle Home - Puzzle
Sports Bar VR - Sports/Skill
Robinson: The Journey - Adventure
Tethered - Strategy/Sim
Windlands - Platformer

And that's not even everything that's coming. I'd say, at worst, the genre distribution isn't much different from that of an average console's release.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Yeah, I just cancelled my order.

Absolutely nothing against the system at all. Pressing that cancel pre-order was tough.

But it was $800 Canadian, plus another $100 for some games.

I could buy like 11 AAA games for that price. I just kept going over that in my head. 11 brand new games.

Which sucks, because I played psvr and it was all I could think about. To me, this is the future of gaming and I wish it all the success.

But the cost/entertainment ratio was completely out of whack. I can't do it. I can afford it, no problem. But I could do soooo much more with that 900.

 

[Shoeless]

Yeah, I just cancelled my order.

Absolutely nothing against the system at all. Pressing that cancel pre-order was tough.

But it was $800 Canadian, plus another $100 for some games.

I have to admit, the Canadian dollar being what it is, the conversion is hard to swallow. I'm willing to take it, I've been waiting years for this, but even I have to admit the pricing is uncomfortable.

 

[III-V]

Is motion sickness really a thing? I pre-ordered this back in March thinking they got rid of motion sickness that somehow plagued early units to an extent. I thought the whole point was them to make sure they got motion sickness sorted and very consumer friendly. Please don't disappoint me.

Its all VR in general, this is not necessarily just PSVR.

You should try it out first then, if this is a real concern. Motion sickness can be induced, particularly when 'strafing' action occurs, or rollercoaster motion, or flight simulations.

Just like real life motion sickness. People have to be aware of this. VR can trick your mind into believing certain things, and when your body does not give the same feedback, it can be trouble.

That being said, people do talk a bit about 'VR legs' i.e. a nod to 'sea legs'.

People who tend to get motion sickness riding rollercoasters, reading in a car, etc. will likely have a higher potential for motion sickness in VR.

Of course, it can also be low framerate and poor head tracking.

We know that the frame rates should be up to snuff.

 

[msdstc]

Sorry if I'm misreading the tone and intent of Marty's and your posts, it just seemed to me you were stating reasons against the point of having it on the store.

Not everything has to be seen as a slight against Sony.

He said he diesnt understand why people would use the disc when you can just download it. I listed reasons why some people would choose to wait.

 

[Jacksinthe]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

A) demonstrably wrong.
B) I know folks who get motion sickness in 3D games on a TV, mileage may vary.
C) highly dependent on the experience.
D) Exclusives won't carry VR.

Sales of current headsets on a platform with a high barrier of entry considering cost and setup with little to no mainstream exposure compared to a low barrier to entry, plug and play device targeted and being marketed to the masses in the open for months now. Your comparison checks out! /S

Publishers care, which is why we are seeing more get behind VR now that PSVR is around the corner.

But, ignore the obvious, seems like you got this pegged!

 

[boredandlazy]

Not everything has to be seen as a slight against Sony.

He said he diesnt understand why people would use the disc when you can just download it. I listed reasons why some people would choose to wait.

That's why I asked, rather than accused.

 

[CharminUltra]

Thanks to assploding Samsungs and Trumps, and also all the juicy NX rumors, I keep forgetting this is a thing that is coming out soon.

Time to susbcribe!

 

[Gemeanie]

100 Ft. Robot Golf - Sports/Action
Ace Banana - Arcade Shooter
Batman VR - Narrative Adventure
Battlezone - Arcade Shooter
Bound - Platformer
Drive Club - Racing
Eve: Gunjack - Arcade Shooter
Eve: Valkyrie - Space Shooter
Harmonix Music VR - Visualizer
Hatsune Miku - Rhythm
Headmaster - Skill/Action
Here They Lie - Horror
Hustle Kings VR - Sports
Job Simulator - Uhh... "Simulator"
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes - Puzzle/Action
Loading Human - Adventure
Super Stardust Ultra VR - Arcade Shooter
Playstation VR Worlds - Various
Rez Infinite - Rhythm/Action
RIGS - Sports/Action
Rise of the Tomb Raider: Blood Ties (Add-on) - Narrative Adventure
Superhypercube - Puzzle
The Assembly - Narrative Adventure
The Playroom VR - Puzzle/Action
Thumber - Rhythm/Action
Tumble VR - Puzzle
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood - Rail Shooter
Volume: Coda - Stealth/Strategy
Wayward Sky - Puzzle/Adventure
World War Toons - Multiplayer FPS
Pixel Gear - Arcade Shooter
Weeping Doll - Horror/Narrative Adventure
Carnival Games - Skill/Action
Waddle Home - Puzzle
Sports Bar VR - Sports/Skill
Robinson: The Journey - Adventure
Tethered - Strategy/Sim
Windlands - Platformer

And that's not even everything that's coming. I'd say, at worst, the genre distribution isn't much different from that of an average console's release.

But these are not games. They are all tech demos.

Spoiler

/s

 

[FairXchange]

I have to admit, the Canadian dollar being what it is, the conversion is hard to swallow. I'm willing to take it, I've been waiting years for this, but even I have to admit the pricing is uncomfortable.

I'm paying $620 CAD for the VR headset. I traded a game and my Kinect for the exact price for the PS4 camera. I'm digging up my two Move controllers from storage. All together not too bad.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I'm paying $620 CAD for the VR headset. I traded a game and my Kinect for the exact price for the PS4 camera. I'm digging up my two Move controllers from storage. All together not too bad.

Sure, it's nice if you have all this stuff, haha.

In hindsight, I should have bought the camera and moves long ago when that shit was on firesale. I'd be able to swallow the price a bit better.

Ohh well.

 

[WoolyNinja]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

I really don't understand these posts more or less predicting (and seemingly hoping) for VR to fail. Are you excited to continue playing the same old stuff for the rest of your life? I for one welcome anything that tries to immerse me into my games more. If you've tried a decent VR game (I played Battlezone) then you'd know that its quite incredible to feel like you're in a game. These launch games are good enough to show some possibilities with VR and it'll only continue to get better.

 

[Shoeless]

Sure, it's nice if you have all this stuff, haha.

In hindsight, I should have bought the camera and moves long ago when that shit was on firesale. I'd be able to swallow the price a bit better.

Ohh well.

Yeah, that was me. I bought the PS4 camera at launch and have had it sitting on my TV using it for facial recognition to log into my account, but that's about it. I had Move controllers lying around from the PS3 era, so I only needed the headset, but still... that, plus games is not cheap.

 

[msdstc]

That's why I asked, rather than accused.

I don't understand how one can jump that conclusion if you actually read the conversation I guess... In any possible way. Unless they're too sensitive about things they like.

 

[brickarts295]

Yeah, I just cancelled my order.

Absolutely nothing against the system at all. Pressing that cancel pre-order was tough.

But it was $800 Canadian, plus another $100 for some games.

I could buy like 11 AAA games for that price. I just kept going over that in my head. 11 brand new games.

Which sucks, because I played psvr and it was all I could think about. To me, this is the future of gaming and I wish it all the success.

But the cost/entertainment ratio was completely out of whack. I can't do it. I can afford it, no problem. But I could do soooo much more with that 900.

Exactly on the same boat, I'm even tempted to get in line on midnight at Best Buy and maybe impulse buy XD. I really want it but I don't need it.

 

[TLZ]

Its all VR in general, this is not necessarily just PSVR.

You should try it out first then, if this is a real concern. Motion sickness can be induced, particularly when 'strafing' action occurs, or rollercoaster motion, or flight simulations.

Just like real life motion sickness. People have to be aware of this. VR can trick your mind into believing certain things, and when your body does not give the same feedback, it can be trouble.

That being said, people do talk a bit about 'VR legs' i.e. a nod to 'sea legs'.

People who tend to get motion sickness riding rollercoasters, reading in a car, etc. will likely have a higher potential for motion sickness in VR.

Of course, it can also be low framerate and poor head tracking.

We know that the frame rates should be up to snuff.

Thanks. I don't suffer from motion sickness IRL thankfully so hopefully I don't in VR. The one time I did feel nauseated was when playing the old 3ds in 3d on a bus. Felt a funny feeling for the first time in my life looking at a screen. This didn't happen with the new 3ds though which was great. I'm hoping the psvr is even better than that with all the better oled screen, framerates (120fps), higher resolution etc. I'm also going to use it on the PS4 pro hoping that helps further.

I really don't want to cancel because I've been looking forward for months :/

BTW, anyone tried playing normal games in the psvr theatre or whatever it's called? Is it stable or shaky? That's another reason I've wanted this too because it gives me the option of a second screen for whenever TV is occupied or playing mature stuff with the kids around.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Yeah, I just cancelled my order.
...
I could buy like 11 AAA games for that price. I just kept going over that in my head. 11 brand new games.

Fair enough. But are there 11 AAA games you actually want?

For me, time is my most limiting factor. I don't have the time to play 11 AAA games. I want more impact per hour. I think Driveclub VR may deliver.

 

[Belfast]

But these are not games. They are all tech demos.

Spoiler

/s

You're right! I should go back and change all the genres to "Tech Demo."

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Fair enough. But are there 11 AAA games you actually want?

For me, time is my most limiting factor. I don't have the time to play 11 AAA games. I want more impact per hour. I think Driveclub VR may deliver.

Not 11, but 4 or 5 in the near future? Absolutely.

Any way you slice it, 900 is a ton of money.

I agree, VR is a huge impact. My heart wanted it so badly. But my stupid brain took over.

 

[Teknoman]

PlayStation VR is not going to work in the gaming industry, as Oculus Rift is also not selling.
- VR headsets are only suitable for FPS, Horror and FP Racing.
- Motion sickness.
- Not practically effective in terms of enjoing gameplay.
- Poor quality of exclusives.

Unfortunately, as PS Move and Kinect failed, VR headsets are going to fail too. Oculus Rift hasn't announced sales, just analysts estimate a 1,6m sales by December which is funny for a one year release.

Even if prices drop, the total sales will be so small that publishers won't even care. It's good for indie developers due to the low expectation of sales. Big publishers only care about sales higher than 10M.

A first person action rpg or even turn based would be amazing. Cool visual novels on the side or even rail shooters like Rez and panzer dragoon or Sin and Punishment would be great. Plenty of genres could work with VR as long as devs give a shot. PSVR having a pretty designated performance and not having to worry about things like differing specs could work.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Do you think over time, VR is something people will "learn"?

For example, a game today that has a high rate of making people motion sick, won't do that to people 5-10 years later because they have vr legs?

 

[Soi-Fong]

PSVR isn't going to be the next Wii obviously, but it'll do better than the Rift.




If "that's not true" then send me some genres.
Would you play an Action game, Sports or Strategy with VR? Let's be specific.
Even if it does better than Rift it won't sell more than 5% of the total PS4 consoles.

Even 5% of the amount of total PS4 consoles out there would be amazing for a start for developers to start jumping into VR.

The number being thrown around for the Vive is about 150k or so sold, so that 5% of the PS4 consoles out there today is huge.

 

[KenPokesBarbie]

Yeah, I just cancelled my order.

Absolutely nothing against the system at all. Pressing that cancel pre-order was tough.

But it was $800 Canadian, plus another $100 for some games.

I could buy like 11 AAA games for that price. I just kept going over that in my head. 11 brand new games.

Which sucks, because I played psvr and it was all I could think about. To me, this is the future of gaming and I wish it all the success.

But the cost/entertainment ratio was completely out of whack. I can't do it. I can afford it, no problem. But I could do soooo much more with that 900.

I cancelled my order too a few days ago it was such a hard decision, but like you said 900 cad is a lot of money. Last night I reordered it through the source since they still have stock and cancelled the order again tonight. I may still end up buying it yet at this point.

 

[SarusGray]

yu gi oh VR , Digimon, Pokemon VR would be fun lol

edited because DIGIMON

 

[spazchicken]

I cancelled my order too a few days ago it was such a hard decision, but like you said 900 cad is a lot of money. Last night I reordered it through the source since they still have stock and cancelled the order again tonight. I may still end up buying it yet at this point.

What are you doing, man!?

 

[Cynn]

yu gi oh VR or Pokemon VR would be fun lol

Digimon!

 

[PodcastFips]

I cancelled my order too a few days ago it was such a hard decision, but like you said 900 cad is a lot of money. Last night I reordered it through the source since they still have stock and cancelled the order again tonight. I may still end up buying it yet at this point.

Order and don't cancel. Save yourself from trying to snipe one in stores, because that will be tough task. Thank me later.