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[[Asmodean]]

RGB 4K HDR does work. When you play a game that supports HDR it switches to YUV 4.2.2. not YUV 4.2.0.

This is correct.

Don't bother with auto, imo. Unreliable, at best. If you're TV supports 2160p RGB use it. It will be changed to YUV422 when HDR is enabled. YUV420 is for TVs that don't have RGB 4K support, etc.

edit: you can confirm this for yourself by enabling HDR in-game. Hit the ps button and go into ps4 display settings and check the display info. With RGB 2160p selected it uses YUV422 for HDR, instead of 420.

 

[Poimandres]

Jesus, I'm so confused by... everything.

I have a Sony XD800, and a Pro. Is the cable that comes with the machine HDMI 2.0? I should be using the setting that's not RGB for HDR right?

 

[JohngPR]

Sounds like automatic is the way to go. I assume we should switch the RGB range to full as well? I have a ks8000

I'm wondering this too. Maybe it's placebo but to me, it looks better and the HDR has more pop when you set the RGB range to full.

 

[family_guy]

If you turn Deep Colour Output off in the PS4 menu it puts HDR off also.

That's nuts. On the Samsung UHD Player it sends a 10 bit signal with it off and a 12 bit signal with it on. The 12 bit is causing the banding.

 

[boredandlazy]

This is correct.

Don't bother with auto, imo. Unreliable, at best. If you're TV supports 2160p RGB use it. It will be changed to YUV422 when HDR is enabled. YUV420 is for TVs that don't have RGB 4K support, etc.

edit: you can confirm this for yourself by enabling HDR in-game. Hit the ps button and go into ps4 display settings and check the display info. With RGB 2160p selected it uses YUV422 for HDR, instead of 420.

Except when using RGB 4:4:4 input lag seems to have a decent bump in the wrong direction based on specs people have posted.

 

[byron_hinson]

I have exactly the same problem : a lot of color banding / gradient issues with games in hdr.
Yet I set everything to automatic. PS4 pro switches to yuv422 when playing hdr games like tlou.

Wild guess is the deep color setting that creates the banding, but it is compulsory if I want to benefit from hdr.
No one else has this issue with color banding ?

Thanks !!

I get the banding in infamous on the PS4 Pro - play from the start and look at the sunset, its awful. Switching off HDR actually makes it look better. Very disappointed so far and no where near as good as Xbox One HDR

 

[III-V]

Jesus, I'm so confused by... everything.

I have a Sony XD800, and a Pro. Is the cable that comes with the machine HDMI 2.0? I should be using the setting that's not RGB for HDR right?

Yes, the cable included is fine.

Set your PS4 Pro to auto. The X800 is a Sony and it will do the correct settings, as they should also be defaulted to auto.

 

[Manuxs]

From my time spent on avsforums, it's been recommended to turn deep color off, even on UHD movies. You don't lose anything as far as HDR goes. I assume the same is true here.

Unfortunately with the PS4 pro, if you turn off deep color, it deactivates hdr
I sincerely hope Sony will patch this and separate deep color and hdr.

 

[Manuxs]

That's nuts. On the Samsung UHD Player it sends a 10 bit signal with it off and a 12 bit signal with it on. The 12 bit is causing the banding.

Exactly. Same with the Panasonic UHD player.
But not the PS4 pro. That is a real pity.

 

[dreamer3kx]

That thread title makes me want to take out my snes.

 

[Dzab]

Exactly. Same with the Panasonic UHD player.
But not the PS4 pro. That is a real pity.

So we're essentially not getting "true" HDR since there's banding, right? Either way it was a bit distracting in R&C

 

[byron_hinson]

So we're essentially not getting "true" HDR since there's banding, right? Either way it was a bit distracting in R&C

and in pretty much any PS4 Pro HDR game. - Infamous is awful for sky and sunset banding now.

 

[LeFAIS]

and in pretty much any PS4 Pro HDR game. - Infamous is awful for sky and sunset banding now.

Only with Samsung displays or with all of them?

 

[byron_hinson]

Only with Samsung displays or with all of them?

Wouldn't surprise me if it's just on Samsung screens.

 

[taco543]

Stupid question but this seems like the best place to ask it, this is my first HDR tv and first experience with HDR Im on tomb raider on my pro, I enabled enhanced hdmi inputs on my x800d from the settings, how do I know if its in HDR or not?

 

[Dzab]

Wouldn't surprise me if it's just on Samsung screens.

It's the Pro since it doesn't let you turn off Deep Colour without turning off HDR. Should be an easy thing to fix in an update surely.

 

[JohngPR]

When I force it to output YUV420, the banding effect you see in inFamous is still there but almost gone compared to 4:2:2.

 

[III-V]

From my time spent on avsforums, it's been recommended to turn deep color off, even on UHD movies. You don't lose anything as far as HDR goes. I assume the same is true here.

If you turn Deep Colour Output off in the PS4 menu it puts HDR off also.

So we're essentially not getting "true" HDR since there's banding, right? Either way it was a bit distracting in R&C

It's the Pro since it doesn't let you turn off Deep Colour without turning off HDR. Should be an easy thing to fix in an update surely.

what what what? Its the same amazing HDR you see anywhere else lol, as long as your set supports it.

deep color is just the 10 bit signal. Thats the YuV420. Thats what you want with HDR, same exact thing as an ultra HD disc puts out.

If deep color is disabled then it limits the PS4 Pro to 8-bit.

8-bit 60 fps w/HDR is not supported by the current maximum HDMI specification, the bit rate is too high.

Besides that, HDR really needs 10 bit minimum to make use of the WCG enhancements, so its all a moot point. If you have a 10-bit 4-K TV, it should be set to auto.

When I force it to output YUV420, the banding effect you see in inFamous is still there but almost gone compared to 4:2:2.

Where are you getting 422? PS4 Pro from what I have seen does not support that output

 

[TLZ]

This is correct.

Don't bother with auto, imo. Unreliable, at best. If you're TV supports 2160p RGB use it. It will be changed to YUV422 when HDR is enabled. YUV420 is for TVs that don't have RGB 4K support, etc.

edit: you can confirm this for yourself by enabling HDR in-game. Hit the ps button and go into ps4 display settings and check the display info. With RGB 2160p selected it uses YUV422 for HDR, instead of 420.

According to this from HDMI.org, 422 would mean 12 bit then.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx

 

[JohngPR]

Where are you getting 422? PS4 Pro from what I have seen does not support that output

If you set resolution to automatic, that's what it sets it to when you use HDR.

 

[farisr]

So... um... I'm totally lost here.

I have the Pro set on Auto, and hence the color format I get when running an HDR game, is YUV422 (which isn't a manually selectable option from what I undestand).

So is this YUV422 mode running at 10 bit or 8 bit or something else?

Edit: Ah yes, it's actually the same thing as setting 2160-RGB. After doing that if you check Video Output Information it says Color Format: YUV 422

And above someone said 12 bit, so is this actually outputting the full color information required for HDR then, and us Vizio owners (and anyone else) doesn't need to bother with YVU420 if we're getting this?

 

[III-V]

If you set resolution to automatic, that's what it sets it to when you use HDR.

Its sets to 420, just like it says in the PS4 resolution tab, unless I am mistaken. How did you determine this?

The res literally says 2160p - YUV420

 

[III-V]

So... um... I'm totally lost here.

I have the Pro set on Auto, and hence the color format I get when running an HDR game, is YUV422 (which isn't a manually selectable option from what I undestand).

So is this YUV422 mode running at 10 bit or 8 bit or something else?

Edit: Ah yes, it's actually the same thing as setting 2160-RGB. After doing that if you check Video Output Information it says Color Format: YUV 422

And above someone said 12 bit, so is this actually outputting the proper color information already then, us Vizio owners (and everyone else) doesn't need to bother with YVU420?

2160p RGB is 8-bit 444. where are you getting 422?

 

[Badlucktroll]

Does Last of Us remastered have a toggle for native 4k that i am missing, or is 30fps mode automatically native 4k?

 

[farisr]

2160p RGB is 8-bit 444. where are you getting 422?

 

[DBT85]

Does Last of Us remastered have a toggle for native 4k that i am missing, or is 30fps mode automatically native 4k?

30fps is 4k, unlocked is 1800p 60ish

 

[Dzab]

what what what? Its the same amazing HDR you see anywhere else lol, as long as your set supports it.

deep color is just the 10 bit signal. Thats the YuV420. Thats what you want with HDR, same exact thing as an ultra HD disc puts out.

If deep color is disabled then it limits the PS4 Pro to 8-bit.

8-bit 60 fps w/HDR is not supported by the current maximum HDMI specification, the bit rate is too high.

Huh, so what's causing the banding?

I don't get it on SW2 on the PC when it's outputting at 2160p, 4:2:0 10bit (KS8000).

 

[c00l3ru]

what what what? Its the same amazing HDR you see anywhere else lol, as long as your set supports it.

deep color is just the 10 bit signal. Thats the YuV420. Thats what you want with HDR, same exact thing as an ultra HD disc puts out.

If deep color is disabled then it limits the PS4 Pro to 8-bit.

8-bit 60 fps w/HDR is not supported by the current maximum HDMI specification, the bit rate is too high.

Besides that, HDR really needs 10 bit minimum to make use of the WCG enhancements, so its all a moot point. If you have a 10-bit 4-K TV, it should be set to auto.



Where are you getting 422? PS4 Pro from what I have seen does not support that output

Yes it does 100℅ 4.2.2 is supported.

 

[c00l3ru]

And I get no banding whatsoever. So it's obviously dependent on what tv you have.

 

[taoofjord]

Could the banding just be more noticeable because of the increase in resolution/clarity?

 

[III-V]

Wow thats cool, is this screen happening as you are running a game in HDR?

I am playing Skrim (no HDR, and it shows the same, minus the 422, just 420 as it shows in the resolution tab.

Also, you've turned HDCP off while mine is on.

EDIT: what game are you playing, I would like to try to reproduce this.

EDIT2: Yes, this claim of 422 is accurate when playing an HDR enabled game.

Huh, so what's causing the banding?

I don't get it on SW2 on the PC when it's outputting at 2160p, 4:2:0 10bit (KS8000).

8- bit is more likely to cause banding then 10-bit 420.

 

[LeFAIS]

And I get no banding whatsoever. So it's obviously dependent on what tv you have.

Could you specify which one you have?

 

[c00l3ru]

Wow thats cool, is this screen happening as you are running a game in HDR?

I am playing Skrim (no HDR, and it shows the same, minus the 422, just 420 as it shows in the resolution tab.

Also, you've turned HDCP off while mine is on.



8- bit is more likely to cause banding then 10-bit 420.

Yes it's 4.2.2 when games are playing.

 

[c00l3ru]

Could you specify which one you have?

Hisense 65M5500.

 

[III-V]

Yes it's 4.2.2 when games are playing.

Its 422 when an HDR game is enabled and the PS4 is set to Auto.

I just popped in uncharted 4 and I see it now. Skyrim has no HDR, and seemingly supports only a maximum of 10-bit YUV 420, or 8-bit at 444

 

[c00l3ru]

Its 422 when an HDR game is enabled and the PS4 is set to Auto.

I just popped in uncharted 4 and I see it now. Skyrim has no HDR, and seemingly supports only a maximum of 10-bit YUV 420, or 8-bit at 444

Yes skyrim doesn't support hdr. Not all games do. Which is a shame.

 

[III-V]

Yes skyrim doesn't support hdr. Not all games do. Which is a shame.

right, the game has to be mastered with HDR to be able to support it as in, that content must be created by the dev.

In Skyrim at least, 2160p RGB should provide the best image quality.

 

[Shin-Ra]

The Automatic resolution setting's working perfectly for me, 2160p RGB for SDR games and 2160p YUV422 for HDR. No banding in SDR or HDR games.

 

[[Asmodean]]

I'm curious if any here can confirm this, if they have TVs that show the color bit depth on the info banner or such.

When 'deep color' is enabled on the ps3/ps4 it seems to just go to 12-bit, bypassing 10-bit. Why this is important? - Regardless of it saying "12 bit" it's still (8-bit + FRC). But 12bit FRC is probably worse overall than 10bit FRC. It's 'stretching' the native 8-bit palette too thin in terms of the dithering needed, etc. I suspect this is what is contributing to the banding people are seeing. (depending on TV)

ps question;
I recently bought a new tv (samsung ks9000) to replace my 2012 sony bravia hx753. and it's annoying to no end that samsung tvs don't seem to have a way to display what the current color depth is. It used to display on the info banner of my sony tv. If anyone knows of a method to get it to display on samsung 16' tvs that'd be great.

 

[potatohead]

If you want 4:4:4 4K 60 fps right now on your PS4, you don't have 10-bit deep colour/HDR.

If you want HDR on for current HDR TVs, you will default to YUV4:2:2 4K 60 fps HDR as long as your TV supports it.

That's all it is.

There is no HDMI spec available apparently that supports RGB 4:4:4 without chroma subsampling with HDR. Yet.

4K HDR still looks hella awesome anyway.

 

[guitarguy316]

I guess I'm still confused and I'm tech savvy. I have an LG E6 Oled. Automatic or should I force the resolution?

On automatic, it appears to be defaulting to rgb which made me have to change my tv black level setting to high or it crushed the blacks.

 

[[Asmodean]]

I guess I'm still confused and I'm tech savvy. I have an LG E6 Oled. Automatic or should I force the resolution?

On automatic, it appears to be defaulting to rgb which made me have to change my tv black level setting to high or it crushed the blacks.

Strictly speaking, in order of quality: RGB > YUV422 > YUV 420 edit: also make sure that your black levels are the same for the ps4 and your tv. If they don't match you'll have clipping (it will either look too dark, or be washed out)

----
I get why some people are confused by these, of course. But I don't get why the people who aren't confused are debating these options. For games, I mean.

I cannot see any viable reason not to select 2160p RGB if your TV supports it. It will change to the lower bandwidth YUV422 when HDR is enabled anyway. Which is still higher quality than YUV420.

Also the deep color is not useful for games unless they support HDR, because if they don't, it's a 99.9% chance they're only coded to support 8-bit per channel anyway (24, or 32 bit (24 = 888RGB 32 = +8 alpha bits).

I'm genuinely only curious what the debate is about? they even ordered the list of resolutions by quality in descending order lol.

 

[TLZ]

Its 422 when an HDR game is enabled and the PS4 is set to Auto.

I just popped in uncharted 4 and I see it now. Skyrim has no HDR, and seemingly supports only a maximum of 10-bit YUV 420, or 8-bit at 444

I have mine set to RGB yet when infamous is on it switches to YUV422.

 

[DBT85]

I have mine set to RGB yet when infamous is on it switches to YUV422.

That's because its detecting HDR and can't do HDR with RGB so changes to 422.

We didn't even know 422 was an option on the PS4 until people started using it, because the menu option isn't there for it.

 

[III-V]

I have mine set to RGB yet when infamous is on it switches to YUV422.

Right, because HDMI does not currently support 10-bit RGB w/HDR, so it downselects to the lower bandwidth 10-bit YUV420 wHDR.

EDIT: inFAMOUS has HDR

 

[TLZ]

Strictly speaking, in order of quality: RGB > YUV422 > YUV 420

----
I get why some people are confused by these, of course. But I don't get why the people who aren't confused are debating these options. For games, I mean.

I cannot see any viable reason not to select 2160p RGB if your TV supports it. It will change to the lower bandwidth YUV422 when HDR is enabled anyway. Which is still higher quality than YUV420.

Also the deep color is not useful for games unless they support HDR, because if they don't, it's a 99.9% chance they're only coded to support 8-bit per channel anyway (24, or 32 bit (24 = 888RGB 32 = +8 alpha bits).

I'm genuinely only curious what the debate is about? they even ordered the list of resolutions by quality in descending order lol.

Maybe it's the 8, 10 and 12 bit that are confusing. HDR should automatically mean 10 bit minimum, right? Also 12 bit is a bigger number than 10 bit so I guess it is obviously better then, right? As long as YUV422 is playing 4K60 10bit then I'm happy. Then auto revert to RGB 4k60 8 bit for SDR.

That's because its detecting HDR and can't do HDR with RGB so changes to 422.

We didn't even know 422 was an option on the PS4 until people started using it, because the menu option isn't there for it.

Yep. Good thing someone bothered to check video settings while playing.

Right, because HDMI does not currently support 10-bit RGB w/HDR, so it downselects to the lower bandwidth 10-bit YUV420 wHDR.

EDIT: inFAMOUS has HDR

You mean YUV422

 

[[Asmodean]]

Maybe it's the 8, 10 and 12 bit that are confusing. HDR should automatically mean 10 bit minimum, right? Also 12 bit is a bigger number than 10 bit so I guess it is obviously better then, right? As long as YUV422 is playing 4K60 10bit then I'm happy. Then auto revert to RGB 4k60 8 bit for SDR.

Just to clarify here. It probably isn't. Yeah 'true' 12-bit is of course better than 10, and 8 bit color. But when it's natively 8-bit, which any display under like 5k+ is, other than profession grade PC displays for photography, etc. They use 8-bit + a Frame Rate Control (FRC) buffer to be able to get up to the desired color depth. see this page for more info on FRC (scroll down a bit) http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/featurescontent.htm.

So my point is. 8 to 10 bit is an increase in quality overall. But - going from 8-bit native all the way to 12-bit probably isn't. As I mention in a previous post. I suspect that 's cutting down the native depth too much with the required dithering, etc to get to 12-bit, and it's introducing banding on the PS4 when deep color is activated.

--
I also edited the previous post I made that you quoted. Just to make sure both your TV and the PS4 are set to the same black levels, or you'll have clipping (too dark, or washed out colors, etc). If you've got the PS4 set to full, set your TV to full, or normal. If it's limited, set it to limited, or low.

 

[TLZ]

Just to clarify here. It probably isn't. Yeah 'true' 12-bit is of course better than 10, and 8 bit color. But when it's natively 8-bit which any display under like 10k is. They use 8-bit + a Frame Rate Control (FRC) buffer to be able to get up to the desired color depth. see this page for more info on FRC (scroll down a bit) http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/featurescontent.htm.

So my point is. 8 to 10 bit is an increase in quality overall. But - going from 8-bit native all the way to 12-bit probably isn't. As I mention in a previous post. I suspect that 's cutting down the native depth too much with the required dithering, etc to get to 12-bit, and it's introducing banding on the PS4 when deep color is activated.

Interesting. So I'm better off just having it on 10 bit YUV420 then?

 

[Rbk_3]

What setting do I use to be sure I'm not using 4:4:4?

The KS8000 almost doubles the input lag in 4:4:4

 

[[Asmodean]]

Interesting. So I'm better off just having it on 10 bit YUV420 then?

That's the problem, you can't specifiy what color depth to use on the PS4. it's only "deep color" it can choose 12-bit even though it *might* be causing problems.

Unless your TV can specify what color depth to use. The PS4 seems to choose 12-bit. But I id ask for people to confirm this in a previous post. I can only go from my own experience here.

What setting do I use to be sure I'm not using 4:4:4?

The KS8000 almost doubles the input lag in 4:4:4

Can you please post where this has been said?. I've got a ks9000, I'll check if it's in the same boat.

To answer your question. To avoid using 444, select YUV420.


#edit:
according to rtings;