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Vampire the Mafia |OT| A Game of Masquerade
- Thread starter El Topo
- Start date
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
*ahem*
c'mon
subtlety? pls, I'm too good at this
What x-shot item did she give you last Night and what did you do with it
Blargi, I don't want a racist meme image to be any part of our gafia games. You can edit that particular post of yours as I have quoted it here.
Thanks.
Blargonaut
Banned
ok, edited
Reminding myself to vet images more before posting them
Reminding myself to vet images more before posting them
Posting from mobile whilst I'm on my lunch, wanna address my thoughts on some of the questions CM has asked. Unfortunately it will be relatively brief as I haven't got the time to refer back and reread right now.
Without looking back my feelings on Zubz remain the same from yesterday, I don't feel particularly strongly that he is town or scum and so don't fully understand where the suspicion of him is coming from, but as his name is coming up here and there I'm going to go back and look at him.
The one thing I have just re looked at is how the votes on CM started. It seems that yesterday Dr Worm was more trusting of Zubz than he was of CM. Zubz was apprehensive about posting for CM as it would make a tie so Dr Worm voted as a sort of 'hey come on then let's go together' so I feel the blame is shared between the two but maybe Zubz didn't wanna be the one to take the heat for it as it were (huh guess that's inadvertently a read on Zubz). The justification seemed to come from the voting as a pair pattern that had already been noted and I've already explained my feelings there.
As with Zubz I'm gonna need torelook at Dr Worm.
The low activity from thanksgiving makes it difficult to work out what mafia wa doing as so many players were understandably busy. It's very likely that town managed to talk itself into the two candidates by themselves and the mafia just split their votes around.
@Swamped: I'll have to read Ynnek later
Would be good if some more players could give their feelings on these questions.
Without looking back my feelings on Zubz remain the same from yesterday, I don't feel particularly strongly that he is town or scum and so don't fully understand where the suspicion of him is coming from, but as his name is coming up here and there I'm going to go back and look at him.
The one thing I have just re looked at is how the votes on CM started. It seems that yesterday Dr Worm was more trusting of Zubz than he was of CM. Zubz was apprehensive about posting for CM as it would make a tie so Dr Worm voted as a sort of 'hey come on then let's go together' so I feel the blame is shared between the two but maybe Zubz didn't wanna be the one to take the heat for it as it were (huh guess that's inadvertently a read on Zubz). The justification seemed to come from the voting as a pair pattern that had already been noted and I've already explained my feelings there.
As with Zubz I'm gonna need torelook at Dr Worm.
The low activity from thanksgiving makes it difficult to work out what mafia wa doing as so many players were understandably busy. It's very likely that town managed to talk itself into the two candidates by themselves and the mafia just split their votes around.
@Swamped: I'll have to read Ynnek later
Would be good if some more players could give their feelings on these questions.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
Did everyone else miss this from Dusk Soldier?
No reasons were given for the votes against infinit777 and Zubz.
infinit777 vote
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=225438563#post225438563
Zubz vote
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=225578225#post225578225
No reasons were given for the votes against infinit777 and Zubz.
infinit777 vote
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=225438563#post225438563
Zubz vote
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=225578225#post225578225
I understood that the infinit vote was a prod, although the quotes in that vote had little to do with infinit. And there was no explanation for the Zubz vote, but it did come after i had placed a vote for him. It's possible that Dusk thought it was a train that would take off (am i mixing my transportation analogies?).
Just a reminder to myself to reread Dusk, infinit, Trigger. It's time to go over Satanic as well. I had given him a pass on D1.
Also, regarding Dr Worm and Zubz, Zubz started D1 with a prod vote on him. Will read more about those two voting on D2.
I feel like some people in this game are not scum hunting hard enough. Like Time. He posts, but i don't see him actually looking for suspicious activity or scum slips.
Also want to ask: is anyone actively town reading Batsnacks?
Haven't answered my question Blarg?
Unsure if Dr Worm and Zubz would be on the same mafia team. Would he scrutinize a fellow teammate's vote closely?
From D2. Here Zubz is actively defending Zubz.
Dr Worm, what's your current read on Zubz?
Zubz, what's your read on Dr Worm?
----
Now, regarding infinit...noting that he hasn't posted this day phase so I am working off old info.
Infinit gives an explanation for the initial Dusk vote on him. Dusk never offered an explanation, apart from 'we all have our role' or something. Is this a Dusk defense?
Scared to be on a townie bandwagon? The Mazre vote was going nowhere.
Infinit seems doggedly against Mazre because of the end of D1 vote in which Mazre last minute switched from Trigger to Gorlak. I actually don't really have a read on Mazre or Trigger (was light town reading Mazre before). But if Trigger is mafia, this is definitely worth looking into, and maybe Infinit is right to keep this thread going. Thing is, Gorlak was winning anyway even without Mazre's vote. So would a scum Mazre risk switching like that?
So upshot: unsure about Infinit.
Regarding yesterday:
I wasn't really convinced by the bandwagon against Zubz, so I guess I was townreading him. I thought that there was more merit to examining Swamped + CM, so I voted CM - partly because I wanted off the MickD train, partly to help draw attention toward them. Zubz seemed partial to that line of argument, so I wanted his help with pursuing CM.
Currently, I'm inclined to believe CM's claim. I'll need to reread more beyond that.
Does that help address your inquiries? Feel free to let me know if it doesn't.
I wasn't really convinced by the bandwagon against Zubz, so I guess I was townreading him. I thought that there was more merit to examining Swamped + CM, so I voted CM - partly because I wanted off the MickD train, partly to help draw attention toward them. Zubz seemed partial to that line of argument, so I wanted his help with pursuing CM.
Currently, I'm inclined to believe CM's claim. I'll need to reread more beyond that.
Does that help address your inquiries? Feel free to let me know if it doesn't.
If fat4all is mafia, why would he intentionally try to force a tie? Hindsight tells us that MickD was town, and mafia would rather lynch a townie than not lynch, since they would win faster. Right?
If fat4all did that intentionally (and it's plausible that he didn't! We all make mistakes), the only way it makes sense to me is if Ynnek7 was his mafia partner to force a MickD lynch over a tie.
Is there another explanation?
Sorry for my tardiness this phase, Thurdsday night was game night and yesterday I merged with my sofa.
Re: CM - Big coin flip for me at the moment. Story is generally plausible, there was no vote scramble on day 2, but claim is also very 'safe' and pretty much can't be contradicted. Pretty much in the same place as Trigger for me.
This is incorrect. Trigger was leading Gorlak 5-3, Bats came in made it 5-4, and I switched at the last minute to make it 4-5 (lynch gorlak).
Anyone not voting CM today is saying that they fully trust CM is town to the extent that they want CM to be one of the final people living at the very end of the game. Not lynching CM is "closing the book" on him, he's here to stay. That's what CM's claim today means. It means he either gets dealt with by lynching, or he will survive to the very end game.
Why? Because he claimed a role that can dodge night kills. If he is town, mafia will never attempt to night kill him because there is a chance the kill will miss. By claiming commuter as town you are completely forfeiting the role's utility and forcing town to make a decision about you.
Why? Because he claimed a role that can dodge night kills. If he is town, mafia will never attempt to night kill him because there is a chance the kill will miss. By claiming commuter as town you are completely forfeiting the role's utility and forcing town to make a decision about you.
When day 2 started Swamped voted Blarg. Shortly after Swamped voted, CM also voted Blarg saying:
Later on Swamped switches her vote to zubz, doesn't give reasons. CM asks Swamped to elaborate on why she is voting zubz and BEFORE SHE DOES he posts this:
Swamped and CM were working together and coordinated their votes for the entire last phase. At the end of the phase Swamped admits that she noticed this but never brought it up. If you noticed someone sheeping you as hard as CM sheeped Swamped, wouldn't you be suspicious? Swamped isn't, she actually -town reads- CM for it. Now look at the final votes:
mickd (6)
hobohodo 606
mazre 612
dr. worm 633 (684)
infinit777 670 (672)
zubz 683
satanic saint 685
swamped 717
ynnek7 724
christina mackenzie (5)
squidyj 628 (639)
dr. worm 684
squidyj 687
batsnacks 714
fat4all 725 (729)
fat4all 729
MickD 673
Swamped voted the same person as her primary scum read, zubz, to save CM from the lynch. This wouldn't be a huge deal except Swamped's primary scum read has been zubz since day 1, which I pointed out on the first day:
Finally, the night kill, squid. Who was squid voting yesterday?
The "train" CM is speaking of is Swamped's single vote on Blarg, so CM is clearly coordinating his vote with hers.
Later on Swamped switches her vote to zubz, doesn't give reasons. CM asks Swamped to elaborate on why she is voting zubz and BEFORE SHE DOES he posts this:
CM follows Swamped's vote for the second time this phase, again clearly coordinating his vote with hers, despite not thinking that zubz is scum. He does not agree with Swamped's reasons but votes zubz anyway, making that his final vote of the day.
Swamped and CM were working together and coordinated their votes for the entire last phase. At the end of the phase Swamped admits that she noticed this but never brought it up. If you noticed someone sheeping you as hard as CM sheeped Swamped, wouldn't you be suspicious? Swamped isn't, she actually -town reads- CM for it. Now look at the final votes:
mickd (6)
hobohodo 606
mazre 612
zubz 683
satanic saint 685
swamped 717
ynnek7 724
christina mackenzie (5)
dr. worm 684
squidyj 687
batsnacks 714
fat4all 729
MickD 673
Swamped voted the same person as her primary scum read, zubz, to save CM from the lynch. This wouldn't be a huge deal except Swamped's primary scum read has been zubz since day 1, which I pointed out on the first day:
Finally, the night kill, squid. Who was squid voting yesterday?
oh no I buggered it
Vote: Swamped
Batsnacks (and others) let me make this clear: I scum read Zubz on D1 and D2. He was my number 1 scum. But my votes for him were not going anywhere by the end of those day phases. So I had to place my vote on one of the two front runners each day.
On D1, it was between Gorlak and Trigger. I was extremely sure that Gorlak was town.
On D2 it was between CM and MickD. I was extremely sure that CM was town.
That's really all there is to it. It didn't even register to me that Zubz was voting for those people also. It was still too early in the game to think about what Zubz's endgame was with his votes anyway. Just because someone I scumread votes for someone doesn't mean that that automatically precludes me for voting for that same person. Scum busses all the time.
Batsnacks you need to stop fixating on me and do some real scum hunting. We need to vote out scum today.
On D1, it was between Gorlak and Trigger. I was extremely sure that Gorlak was town.
On D2 it was between CM and MickD. I was extremely sure that CM was town.
That's really all there is to it. It didn't even register to me that Zubz was voting for those people also. It was still too early in the game to think about what Zubz's endgame was with his votes anyway. Just because someone I scumread votes for someone doesn't mean that that automatically precludes me for voting for that same person. Scum busses all the time.
Batsnacks you need to stop fixating on me and do some real scum hunting. We need to vote out scum today.
Dusk Soldier
Member
explanations to what?
These are pretty cryptic. Is there a reason for that? What was your reasoning for voting them?
Satanic Saint
Member
The only person I am sure who is town is Blarg. There is no real advantage in claiming being poisoned, it will maximum buy you one day. If he is still alive the next day, he will be lynched for sure.
If Blarg is really town then(which I really do believe), that leaves us with 4 possibilities regarding Swamped:
1. Swamped is an Ordinary Townie since Blarg redirected her power to CM and CM says nothing happened to her at night.
2. Swamped and CM are both mafia and CM is saving her.(Pretty believable since these 2 people have been linked for pretty much the whole game). Again I'm assuming here that friendly fire is not possible and that is why CM is still alive.
3. CM actually was invisible and thus nothing happened to him. I'm assuming in this case that he is not notified whether someone attacks him or whatever.
4. We can safely say that Swamped is not the person who poisoned Blarg because Blarg redirected her power to CM that same night.
Also CM just wasted his role by claiming it, if that really is his role. Basically even if he is that role there is no point in keeping him alive since mafia are not going to attack him. If we lynch him today, we can atleast confirm his role and then look at the voting patterns.
Also I agree with batsnacks post that if we trust CM and keep him alive now, he is here to stay basically.
Also I don't really know how the Vote for me thing is going to work out in the future.
If Blarg is really town then(which I really do believe), that leaves us with 4 possibilities regarding Swamped:
1. Swamped is an Ordinary Townie since Blarg redirected her power to CM and CM says nothing happened to her at night.
2. Swamped and CM are both mafia and CM is saving her.(Pretty believable since these 2 people have been linked for pretty much the whole game). Again I'm assuming here that friendly fire is not possible and that is why CM is still alive.
3. CM actually was invisible and thus nothing happened to him. I'm assuming in this case that he is not notified whether someone attacks him or whatever.
4. We can safely say that Swamped is not the person who poisoned Blarg because Blarg redirected her power to CM that same night.
Also CM just wasted his role by claiming it, if that really is his role. Basically even if he is that role there is no point in keeping him alive since mafia are not going to attack him. If we lynch him today, we can atleast confirm his role and then look at the voting patterns.
Also I agree with batsnacks post that if we trust CM and keep him alive now, he is here to stay basically.
Also I don't really know how the Vote for me thing is going to work out in the future.
Myself, Trigger, Swamped, Timeaisis, hobohodo -- I think everyone who has commented on CM's claim is in agreement: claiming commuter is useless as town.
So everyone agrees that this is a useless play if CM is town. Why did CM claim then? BECAUSE HE IS MAFIA. He spent night 3 in mafia chat with his mafia buddies coming up with a plan that would:
1) possibly convince people he is town after almost being lynched yesterday
2) explain the fact that he will never be night killed, just in case people actually do believe him
3) if he is doomed to lynch, he wants to limit the discussion today as much as possible, see his "vote me" plan
CM explicitly says that his claim was pre-planned and pre-written.
Swamped was right out the gate today with this post:
Then is CM's "vote me" plan. This "vote me" play accomplishes two things for CM. First, it gauges how likely people are to vote him today and how likely his pre-planned claim is succeed. Second, it puts all discussion on hold. Town can not focus on other targets as long as CM is railroading all discussion and votes into him. His conclusion:
Okay so it's starting to look optimistic for CM. Only 4 people voted him. Then he claims and while claiming he lets this slip:
Realize that mafia is not going to help us lynch mafia like they have been helping us lynch townies. As more and more townies are removed from the game it is only going to get harder to focus them down because they are working together, with perfect information.
As a bonus, see Swamped discrediting me:
So everyone agrees that this is a useless play if CM is town. Why did CM claim then? BECAUSE HE IS MAFIA. He spent night 3 in mafia chat with his mafia buddies coming up with a plan that would:
1) possibly convince people he is town after almost being lynched yesterday
2) explain the fact that he will never be night killed, just in case people actually do believe him
3) if he is doomed to lynch, he wants to limit the discussion today as much as possible, see his "vote me" plan
CM explicitly says that his claim was pre-planned and pre-written.
He doesn't try to explain his scummy actions the previous day before claiming, he does not attempt to clear himself with dialog, he doesn't try to appear more towny by helping with contributions, he goes straight for a claim. CM wants you to believe that he, as town, threw away his role before even trying to defend himself.
Swamped was right out the gate today with this post:
First notice the bolded. Who was squid voting yesterday? Swamped and CM. Swamped is distancing herself from CM here, knowing that if/when CM flips mafia, she will look very guilty.
Then is CM's "vote me" plan. This "vote me" play accomplishes two things for CM. First, it gauges how likely people are to vote him today and how likely his pre-planned claim is succeed. Second, it puts all discussion on hold. Town can not focus on other targets as long as CM is railroading all discussion and votes into him. His conclusion:
Okay so it's starting to look optimistic for CM. Only 4 people voted him. Then he claims and while claiming he lets this slip:
Swamped is currently voting CM at the time this was posted and said "maybe squid was on the right track and was lynched because he had sway." CM knows that Swamped will unvote him and town read him before she does. And predictably:
They have both ever since been scrambling for any other target, any other topic, than CM's blatant scumminess and their obvious coordinating.
Realize that mafia is not going to help us lynch mafia like they have been helping us lynch townies. As more and more townies are removed from the game it is only going to get harder to focus them down because they are working together, with perfect information.
As a bonus, see Swamped discrediting me:
Dusk Soldier
Member
scum tend to get paranoid when there's pressure on their partners.
I placed a vote on infinite777 to see if any one would stick up for him.
that's what i meant by his role. his role was bait.
zubz was the one player to question my infinite vote on D2. I moved my vote to him when he started getting pressured since if he flipped scum I felt there was a good chance infinite would too.
fyi my vote on Blarg was placed for the same reason. and the player I was trying to bait responded to it. now we play the waiting game to see if Blarg will really die today.
Dusk Soldier
Member
I think based on his detective work piecing together their hidden conversation, that Blarg was lying about his redirection power.
he just felt really confident that Swamped had targeted Christina, and wanted to trick him into revealing what he had received.
Dusk Soldier
Member
There's... a lot to unpack, there.
He's probably telling the truth about the poisoning, but we'll find out in around 48 hours anyway. His reads are interesting, but he skipped out on some of the details. Reason for the roleplay was odd, but so are a lot of his posts.
I want to believe you, but... I'm not so sure. Batsnacks is aggressive, but he does make some good points concerning how you've played this.
And you don't seem to be taking his concerns seriously.
I didn't want to vote for you earlier today because I wanted to hear you out, but after hearing you out, I don't know if it was worth it.
But I have to know: why did you claim this? Even if you really are a limited commuter, why couldn't you lie?
I almost hope you're lying and you're actually just blue, and squidyj's death was just misdirection. It would be helpful for you to flip, but also for you to stay alive - if not for your role, then so we could look for the real mafia.
I hate to say this, but even if you're town, what use are you if we can't confirm it for ourselves?
Blargonaut
Banned
During Night 1, I redirected batsnacks to Trigger
cue denial
cue denial
Blargonaut
Banned
and I roleblocked Mazre
then Zubz on N2
I'm quite the Role
then Zubz on N2
I'm quite the Role
Blarg I'm trying to understand what your saying when you have 'redirected' a power. Are you saying that Person A was acting on Person B but you switched it to player C? Or are you saying that Person A had a power that has now been given to Person B? The way you say that Swamped gave CM something makes me think the later but a PR that can strip and give abilities seems crazy to me. In work so can't go and look up if that is a known type of PR. Also, doing that and being able to do that AND role block in the same night seems a bit to much. The choice of one or another would seem a bit much all ready but both at once? That just seems unlikely. Unless I am misunderstanding.
On a different note I have gone and looked at Infinit's post. There isn't a whole lot to go on, and still nothing from this day phase, but the players they have been suspicious or through the game have been:
Squidyj
Absolutbro
Batsnacks
Mazre
MickD
Three of those have ended up dead, two of them from NK. I don't know if there is anything to take from this but it is literally all I got from looking back at his posts
On a different note I have gone and looked at Infinit's post. There isn't a whole lot to go on, and still nothing from this day phase, but the players they have been suspicious or through the game have been:
Squidyj
Absolutbro
Batsnacks
Mazre
MickD
Three of those have ended up dead, two of them from NK. I don't know if there is anything to take from this but it is literally all I got from looking back at his posts
Blargonaut
Banned
Blargonaut
Banned
Anyway, none of this means anything unless my targets profess what happened to them
I didn't promise a read list exactly, but I do want to throw out some opinions.
Top town:
Blarg and Batsnacks are probably my safest bets. I think Batsnacks has been active enough in trying to generate conversation. I also don't feel like Blarg's behavior today is scummy. Fat4all is pretty town-y too to me.
Top scum:
Satanic Saint was the only one I've been suspicious of prior to CM's actions. He hasn't done much more to make me suspicious though past Day 1 honestly.
Redirected what? I haven't experienced anything at night, yet.
Top town:
Blarg and Batsnacks are probably my safest bets. I think Batsnacks has been active enough in trying to generate conversation. I also don't feel like Blarg's behavior today is scummy. Fat4all is pretty town-y too to me.
Top scum:
Satanic Saint was the only one I've been suspicious of prior to CM's actions. He hasn't done much more to make me suspicious though past Day 1 honestly.
Redirected what? I haven't experienced anything at night, yet.
Christina Mackenzie
Member
Actually just go ahead and lynch me. You'll see for yourselves that Day 2 was between 2 town players.
Blargonaut
Banned
I say we not lynch you and see what happens to you Tonight
Blargonaut
Banned
Blargonaut
Banned
We should lynch either batsnacks or Swamped instead of CM Today
I know for a fact they did something to the targets I redirected them to, no matter how much they or my targets try to deny it
Everyone should listen to me
I know for a fact they did something to the targets I redirected them to, no matter how much they or my targets try to deny it
Everyone should listen to me
Nothing either way. Mafia can safely avoid him.
I'm so sorry, guys, it's been a busy couple of days at work/with D&D! That said, it sucks about Squidy. We lost one of our more active players.
That was just me miscounting because that vote was made during a short break from work just minutes before the end; I read CM as evil and still kind of do. That said, assuming Blarg is telling the truth, that could give merit to CM's PR claim; if he's a commuter, then he would have been safe from Swamped had he used his power, and has Swamped been in a killing role.
I was thinking this way, too; if I had some sort of power (Although apparently I would've been blocked anyway, so I guess that would've balanced out), I actually would have went straight for Swamped because CM's aggressive playstyle and blind following of Swamped's actions had me thinking he was a Conspiracy/Mafia/Wolf/Baddie regardless, but doing something to analyze Swamped would have given us info as to whether or not he was an unconvincing henchman or just chose to latch onto.
And I guess Swamped herself isn't cleared in this way. It just means there was some sort of treachery preventing her from doing anything to CM that we know of. And there's still a chance some other thing could've popped up and they're both evil team (Like Swamped having a non-killing evil role)
I still don't have much of a read on Dr. Worm; I was going after him because "No Kill" is a really bad idea for anyone but evil team players, but it seems that was genuinely just what he wanted to do and had a somewhat valid excuse. He still could be a baddie and wanted to use the "leaving on a jetplane" excuse to actually vote for a "No Kill" without serious repercussions.
How so? Hell, we don't even know if you've been poisoned, all we have is your word. That said, I'm glad the author facade is gone; it was getting to be a bit much. But I'm still suspicious because of how long it lasted
That was just me miscounting because that vote was made during a short break from work just minutes before the end; I read CM as evil and still kind of do. That said, assuming Blarg is telling the truth, that could give merit to CM's PR claim; if he's a commuter, then he would have been safe from Swamped had he used his power, and has Swamped been in a killing role.
I was thinking this way, too; if I had some sort of power (Although apparently I would've been blocked anyway, so I guess that would've balanced out), I actually would have went straight for Swamped because CM's aggressive playstyle and blind following of Swamped's actions had me thinking he was a Conspiracy/Mafia/Wolf/Baddie regardless, but doing something to analyze Swamped would have given us info as to whether or not he was an unconvincing henchman or just chose to latch onto.
And I guess Swamped herself isn't cleared in this way. It just means there was some sort of treachery preventing her from doing anything to CM that we know of. And there's still a chance some other thing could've popped up and they're both evil team (Like Swamped having a non-killing evil role)
I still don't have much of a read on Dr. Worm; I was going after him because "No Kill" is a really bad idea for anyone but evil team players, but it seems that was genuinely just what he wanted to do and had a somewhat valid excuse. He still could be a baddie and wanted to use the "leaving on a jetplane" excuse to actually vote for a "No Kill" without serious repercussions.
How so? Hell, we don't even know if you've been poisoned, all we have is your word. That said, I'm glad the author facade is gone; it was getting to be a bit much. But I'm still suspicious because of how long it lasted