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[robotrock]

I'm talking about console exclusive, so Inside should be out of that list too. But yeah, whatever you say man, console warz rules amirite.

Really wasn't trying to do that. Just completely forgot Witness and Inside both hit the other console a few months after their launch.

 

[wapplew]

Something about this is concerning, right?

Some of those smock and mirror, knee jerk greenlit projects, by-product of 2013 PR disaster.

 

[v1oz]

The Last Guardian was in development hell for much longer, staff members left the company and the game switched systems, but Sony still saw the game into completion. Three isn't a very long development time for a game the size of this. Doesn't Microsoft lose money cancelling all these games? They have cancelled a record number of games over the years, including many cool Rare projects.

 

[Kayant]

Don't know if this has been posted but it gives some insight into what kinds of things they could have done if the current rumour about the way MS handling things is true. Ofc there is still platinum's responsibles to think about but here's one aspect of discussion somewhat solved.

For what it's worth, I don't know any developers that have had a positive experience working directly with Microsoft. They're extremely controlling and hands-on, and everything is designed by committee and requires huge levels of executive buy-in. They are so desperate for success that everything becomes a giant exercise in avoiding risk, to the point that they don't even trust the developer they hired to make the game.

The main issue, though, is that MS is constantly changing overall strategies on a whim, and that impacts the products. Because everything has to fit the overall strategy, even if there was nothing really wrong with the original product before.

i.e. Signing a game as a single player game, then adding co-op later because the overall company strategy changed.

They also know that they're Microsoft, and they have a lot of clout and can't be easily sued. So they really play hardball on prices, contract renegotations, etc. even when they're in the wrong or drastically change the scope of a project.

For example, a friend's studio signed their indie game with MS. It was for a new MS platform, and they had to constantly renegotiate the contract to get paid. Why? Because they technically kept missing milestones because Microsoft wasn't delivering the APIs for that platform on time.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Something about this is concerning, right?

Fable Legends hype was zilch after multiple trade show appearances and a long beta and so they canceled it because it was going to end up like Project Spark which actually got released, but nobody played it so they ended support for it. Phantom Dust was an actual fuck up and shouldn't have been announced and Scalebound was lost to issues during development.

So that's just 3 out of the 39 or so officially announced titles that they've canceled. Not really concerning.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

I said it before but I'll say it again. Scalebound wasn't going to be successful or a system seller.

Maybe not, but it was different. It was something new. A console like the Xbone could do with those, a new IP from Japan.

 

[Yager]

Really wasn't trying to do that. Just completely forgot Witness and Inside both hit the other console a few months after their launch.

Nah that's OK, I actually forgot for a moment that Inside hit PS4, but I do find funny how 90% of the time the "filters" applied for selecting games to makes lists like this one are based on whatever helps the poster to push his narrative.

Maybe not, but it was different. It was something new. A console like the Xbone could do with those, a new IP from Japan.

It's not like MS didn't try to push new IPs this gen, and we know what the results are saleswise in most of those cases.

 

[LukasTaves]

Something about this is concerning, right?

Something about this is also a lie to keep a narrative going.

Project Spark was released. But it was a service that got terminated.

Ori was released to much acclaim on xbone and pc. The 360 version was never released, but at that point does it really matters?

Phantom Dust was canceled, but there's a remaster coming up this year. It's not like they dropped the IP, they ultimately decided that a remaster that fix the progression curve on mp would be a better way to bring the ip back than rebooting it.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I really doubt companies like Namco, Konami, SEGA, D3, Square-Enix, 5pb, among other japanese developres/piblishers won't release their titles on XB1 or W10.

I was thinking of a more in depth partnership.

 

[robotrock]

Fable Legends hype was zilch after multiple trade show appearances and a long beta and so they canceled it because it was going to end up like Project Spark which actually got released, but nobody played it so they ended support for it. Phantom Dust was an actual fuck up and shouldn't have been announced and Scalebound was lost to issues during development.

So that's just 3 out of the 39 or so officially announced titles that they've canceled. Not really concerning.

Damn, you're right, Project Spark actually officially launched. Missed that. I still don't think 3/10 in a single press show is great though. Though I sure didn't care about Fable Legends, I'm bummed to see it do what it did to Lionhead, and I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft was the one to push that direction on them.

Something about this is also a lie to keep a narrative going.

Project Spark was released. But it was a service that got terminated.

Ori was released to much acclaim on xbone and pc. The 360 version was never released, but at that point does it really matters?

Phantom Dust was canceled, but there's a remaster coming up this year. It's not like they dropped the IP, they ultimately decided that a remaster that fix the progression curve on mp would be a better way to bring the ip back than rebooting it.

Yup, my bad on the Project Spark stuff. I'll give you Ori if you want too.

I still don't really trust that Microsoft is gonna remaster Phantom Dust. I know they've said it, but I remain skeptical.

 

[Elandyll]

Really wasn't trying to do that. Just completely forgot Witness and Inside both hit the other console a few months after their launch.

Wu?

The Witness was a PS4 (console) temp exclusive for like 6 months.

 

[GHG]

Where do people get this information that Phantom Dust is coming this year?

Or is it just assumptions/wishful thinking?

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

E3 2014 Microsoft Exclusives Shown:

1. Fable Legends: Cancelled
2. Project Spark: Cancelled
3. Ori and the Blind Forest: Came out 2015, 360 version cancelled?
4. Inside: Came out 2016
5. Below: Unreleased
6. Phantom Dust: Cancelled
7. Crackdown: Unreleased
8. Scalebound: Cancelled
9. Halo 5: Came out 2015


E3 2014 Sony Exclusives Shown:

1. Deep Down: Unreleased
2. Eve: Valkyrie: Came out 2016
3. Let It Die: Came out 2016
4. The Order: 1886: Came out 2015
5. The Witness: Came out 2016
6. Everybody's Gone to the Rapture: Came out 2015
7. Bloodborne: Came out 2015
8. No Man's Sky: Came out 2016
9. Ratchet & Clank: Came out 2016
10. Uncharted 4: A Thief's End: Came out 2016

Project Spark wasn't canceled per say. The game was released but hit EoL.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

He's not gonna say "damn my game got cancelled, this was all microsoft not me". That would be bad for Platinum

If PG and Kamiya aren't responsible for what happened, there's no need to say they let anyone down because it was entirely out of their control. Saying you let someone down is admitting fault.

He does if the game got cancelled for not meeting expectations. Argue whatever you want, as the Director of the game, its his job to make the game as good as it can be, or rather as good as the publisher wants it to be.

Not saying he should be blamed, but I can understand why he is taking responsibility.

That makes sense.

 

[Elandyll]

Where do people get this information that Phantom Dust is coming this year?

Or is it just assumptions/wishful thinking?

Different game afaik.

The one canceled was a new iteration, a remaster ("enhanced port") with added MP is now in the cards. Pun intended.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Kamiya feels he let people down? Weird way to frame it if he doesn't bare any responsibility for the cancellation.

That's Japanese culture. You're frequently obliged to apologize for things that go wrong with things that you're involved with, whether they were your fault or not. Don't read too much into it, it's just manners.

 

[robotrock]

Wu?

The Witness was a PS4 (console) temp exclusive for like 6 months.

What are you not getting?

I forgot Witness came out on Xbone after it launched on PS4 and PC.

I forgot Inside came out to PS4 after it launched on Xbone on PC.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

It's not like MS didn't try to push new IPs this gen, and we know what the results are saleswise in most of those cases.

I know, but they didn't have a Japanese exclusive from an acclaimed developer in their line-up, which is why Scalebound was so appealing to me. Shame it wasn't meant to be.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Project Spark WAS RELEASED, and The Witness is not an exclusive. Ori has no place in that list as cancelled. Phantom Dust is not exactly cancelled (that version of the game was scrapped, but we're getting it). I get where you come from and I get your point, but if we are going to put lists, at least lest make them right.

oh my sweet summer child

 

[The Giant]

Curious to see with which publisher Kamiya will work with next and what type of project it will be.

It will be Nintendo and it will be a reboot of The Mysterious Murasame Castle. Since that's another ip Kamiya would love to work on.

 

[Elandyll]

What are you not getting?

I forgot Witness came out on Xbone after it launched on PS4 and PC.

I forgot Inside came out to PS4 after it launched on Xbone on PC.

The way you were phrasing that seemed to imply both launched first on XB1. Just a bit confusing, is all.

 

[Matt]

If PG and Kamiya aren't responsible for what happened, there's no need to say they let anyone down because it was entirely out of their control. Saying you let someone down is admitting fault.

I, unfortunately, have been around a lot of people that have been laid off from their jobs through no fault of their own. They very often talk about the shame of letting down their families.

 

[michaelius]

It's not like MS didn't try to push new IPs this gen, and we know what the results are saleswise in most of those cases.

That says more about quality of those releases. Microsoft as a publisher failed to deliver high quality games when selecting/ordering new IPs.

 

[onemanasylum]

]Something about this is also a lie to keep a narrative [/B]going.

Project Spark was released. But it was a service that got terminated.

Ori was released to much acclaim on xbone and pc. The 360 version was never released, but at that point does it really matters?

Phantom Dust was canceled, but there's a remaster coming up this year. It's not like they dropped the IP, they ultimately decided that a remaster that fix the progression curve on mp would be a better way to bring the ip back than rebooting it.

Narrative? What are you talking about? A few mistakes in his list does not mean anything, no one is creating a narrative, facts are facts, MS track record and e3 2014 was purely knee jerk smoke and mirrors.

 

[Yager]

oh my sweet summer child

We're getting a re-release, which is better than nothing, so I don't get why you say that.

That says more about quality of those releases. Microsoft as a publisher failed to deliver high quality games when selecting/ordering new IPs.

Well that depends. I enjoyed QB a lot and SO is criminally underrated. For me it's not that they didn't have quality products, but people in general didn't care about most of those games, which is unfortunate. It's not like every Sony game is 90+ on metacritic.

 

[onemanasylum]

If PG and Kamiya aren't responsible for what happened, there's no need to say they let anyone down because it was entirely out of their control. Saying you let someone down is admitting fault.



That makes sense.

WOW talk about reaching here....no it does not mean admitting fault. People can feel they let people down and still not be at fault for what happened

 

[robotrock]

The way you were phrasing that seemed to imply both launched first on XB1. Just a bit confusing, is all.

Ah yep, can definitely see that. I stayed up way too late and it is showing in my post quality.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

That's Japanese culture. You're frequently obliged to apologize for things that go wrong with things that you're involved with, whether they were your fault or not. Don't read too much into it, it's just manners.

Huh. Okay, seems to be a standard thing then. Weird but okay.

I, unfortunately, have been around a lot of people that have been laid off from their jobs through no fault of their own. They very often talk about the shame of letting down their families.

I'd say that's slightly different and still not something anyone should think about in terms of letting someone down, but I get what you're saying.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

We're getting a re-release, which is better than nothing, so I don't get why you say that.

Sorry I didn't realize you were referring to the remaster. Thought you meant you would still get a new Phantom Dust, but by another developer.

Still, replacing a new game with a remaster is pretty weak

 

[Matt]

Huh. Okay, seems to be a standard thing then. Weird but okay.



I'd say that's slightly different and still not something anyone should think about in terms of letting someone down, but I get what you're saying.

Wheather or not they should or shouldn't feel that way doesn't change the fact that they often do, and therefore someone saying "I let you down" doesn't really imply a factual fault on their part.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

If PG and Kamiya aren't responsible for what happened, there's no need to say they let anyone down because it was entirely out of their control. Saying you let someone down is admitting fault.

i mean if the reason for not meeting milestones was microsoft bullshit it could be an apology for choosing to work with such a company

Oh yeah, I agree with that. The silver lining is that at least, being a remaster, you know what you'll get instead of a remake that can turn to be shit. Is a weak move, but it's better than getting nothing.

Absolutely remasters are a lot better than nothing

 

[Yager]

Sorry I didn't realize you were referring to the remaster. Thought you meant you would still get a new Phantom Dust, but by another developer.

Still, replacing a new game with a remaster is pretty weak

Oh yeah, I agree with that. The silver lining is that at least, being a remaster, you know what you'll get instead of a remake that can turn to be shit. Is a weak move, but it's better than getting nothing.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yeah but they're Microsoft though. They do well and make serious bank. If we can't actually hold them accountable to games they felt confident demo'ing at three major press/trade events, then what's stopping them from going onto E3 next year and just straight up lying to consumers? Obviously, I don't actually think they went up with the intentions of lying, but if you can't be 100% confident that you'll be able to deliver the product, then don't use it as marketing for your trade shows?


Something about this is concerning, right?

Ofcourse it's concerning.

But I'm not sure you have a realistic expectation. There's no such thing add 100% confidence. But if there wasn't high confidence to begin with, they wouldn't have invested in these games in the first place. That's how publishing deals get made. The developer makes a pitch and sells it to the publisher based on the premise that it will be beneficial to them. If a publisher buys,it because they've been sold on the vision

In MS' case I think there's been a ton of misjudging the market (on behalf of MS AND the devs they've hired) , a few bad bets, and some insurmountable development hurdles. That much is clear. But none of that amounts to ill will.

I'm still not sure what you mean by accountability. Are you suggesting that demoing a title should guaruntee is release? Because that's never been a thing.

I DO think MS (and all studios) should consider shortening the announcement to release window. We've been dealing with demos not being representative of the final product AND with products not coming to fruition since trade show were a thing.

 

[ViciousDS]

Even if the game was in a troubled state something tells me this was Microsofts constant change of vision into their live services into a game that ended up being the death of this game. Like Kamiya didn't want to do certain things but microsoft kept pushing for features and stuff.

See this quote below

its quite telling of how Microsoft handle shit

For what it's worth, I don't know any developers that have had a positive experience working directly with Microsoft. They're extremely controlling and hands-on, and everything is designed by committee and requires huge levels of executive buy-in. They are so desperate for success that everything becomes a giant exercise in avoiding risk, to the point that they don't even trust the developer they hired to make the game.

The main issue, though, is that MS is constantly changing overall strategies on a whim, and that impacts the products. Because everything has to fit the overall strategy, even if there was nothing really wrong with the original product before.

i.e. Signing a game as a single player game, then adding co-op later because the overall company strategy changed.

They also know that they're Microsoft, and they have a lot of clout and can't be easily sued. So they really play hardball on prices, contract renegotations, etc. even when they're in the wrong or drastically change the scope of a project.

For example, a friend's studio signed their indie game with MS. It was for a new MS platform, and they had to constantly renegotiate the contract to get paid. Why? Because they technically kept missing milestones because Microsoft wasn't delivering the APIs for that platform on time.

 

[Outrun]

I hope the slating of MS stops now.

I am happy no one suffered a mental breakdown.

 

[spannicus]

Come on Microsoft hit up From software and have them develop a new IP for you.

 

[Yager]

Ofcourse it's concerning.

But I'm not sure you have a realistic expectation. There's no such thing add 100% confidence. But if there wasn't high confidence to begin with, they wouldn't have invested in these games in the first place.

I think there's been a ton of misjudging the market, a few bad bets, and some insurmountable development hurdles. That much is clear. But none of that amounts to ill will.

I'm still not sure what you mean by accountability. Are you suggesting that demoing a title should guaruntee is release? Because that's never been a thing.

I DO think MS (and all studios) should consider shortening the announcement to release window. We've been dealing with demos not being representative of the final product AND with products not coming to fruition since trade show were a thing.

Are you trying to convince me that MS didn't demoed the game all this times knowing that it was going to be a failure, that they needed to cancel it because it was shit, but they wanted to play with our feelings? I DON'T BELIEVE YOU.

But yeah, some of the announcements are way fucking too soon and it's annoying. And that's not only on MS, all studios do this (I'm looking at you Sony for that FF7 remake announcement).

 

[Sayad]

This thread shows that the majority of you guys would tank businesses with your current mind-set.

I doubt many here would be as efficient at tanking businesses as MS.

Come on Microsoft hit up From software and have them develop a new IP for you.

I doubt it would be easy for MS to sign deals with not so desperate Japanese developers going forward.

 

[robotrock]

Ofcourse it's concerning.

But I'm not sure you have a realistic expectation. There's no such thing add 100% confidence. But if there wasn't high confidence to begin with, they wouldn't have invested in these games in the first place.

I think there's been a ton of misjudging the market, a few bad bets, and some insurmountable development hurdles. That much is clear. But none of that amounts to ill will.

I'm still not sure what you mean by accountability. Are you suggesting that demoing a title should guaruntee is release? Because that's never been a thing.

I DO think MS (and all studios) should consider shortening the announcement to release window. We've been dealing with demos not being representative of the final product AND with products not coming to fruition since trade show were a thing.

Yeah I kind of do think demoing a title should guarantee a release, if you're someone like Microsoft and have the capital that you do. And if that confidence can be achieved with having much shorter announcement -> release schedules, I'm all for it. I'm not particularly impressed with Sony announcing Death Stranding at their shows when that's clearly not happening until 2019 or 2020, or announcing a Kickstarter for Shenmue 3 either.

The kind of accountability I'm talking about also extends to the quality of the final product of the game too for sure. I'm not saying the games have to be masterpieces, but technically they absolutely should be in better states at launch than the Halo Master Chief Collection. I know Microsoft is a company with a lot of money, and I know Halo should be one of the biggest franchises in the world. It was the first Halo release for their new Xbox. How on earth did that thing ship in the state that it did?

But yeah, some of the announcements are way fucking too soon and it's annoying. And that's not only on MS, all studios do this (I'm looking at you Sony for that FF7 remake announcement).

Yeah, it's definitely a problem plaguing the industry right now. Expecting to roll my eyes if Nintendo actually tries to show Beyond Good and Evil 2 tomorrow.

 

[Kazuo Hirai]

Come on Microsoft hit up From software and have them develop a new IP for you.

Cancel a From ip may result 1000 page here.

From still owe Sony 2 games

 

[breveglieri]

E3 2014 Microsoft Exclusives Shown:

E3 2014 Sony Exclusives Shown:

Wow, this is sad for XB1 owners

 

[robotrock]

Cancel a From ip may result 1000 page here.

From still owe Sony 2 games

Is that the kind of deal they signed? Sounds similar to the one thatgamecompany had.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Come on Microsoft hit up From software and have them develop a new IP for you.

yeah, i'd rather present day microsoft stay away from my favourite developer thanks

 

[timlot]

That's Japanese culture. You're frequently obliged to apologize for things that go wrong with things that you're involved with, whether they were your fault or not. Don't read too much into it, it's just manners.

I realize the narrative of this thread is to poo poo MS, but to say "don't read too much into it" is silly. Game was behind schedule and didn't meet its proformance milestones. Plat was a 'for hire' developer that didn't get the job done in the time they said they could. Game would have had its review score wars thread and be forgotten after the first month just like most games now days. Where the hype for TLG go? This thread to shall pass. Folks can only agree with one another for so long.

 

[breveglieri]

 

[AHindD]

Come on Microsoft hit up From software and have them develop a new IP for you.

I'd say From, or most 3rd part developers for that matter, should stay away from Microsoft with a 100 foot pole.

 

[Outrun]

I'd say From, or most 3rd part developers for that matter, should stay away from Microsoft with a 100 foot pole.

Why? Because Platinum fucked up?

We don't know the facts.

Yesterday, Kamiya's mental health wad eroding and he was taking time off. Today it is something different...

The truth is that we don't know.

Platinum is apologizing though...

 

[Loudninja]

Why? Because Platinum fucked up?

We don't know the facts.

Yesterday, Kamiya's mental health wad eroding and he was taking time off. Today it is something different...

The truth is that we don't know.

Platinum is apologizing though...

Umm

 

[Memento]

Come on Microsoft hit up From software and have them develop a new IP for you.

Stahp

 

[lukeskymac]

This thread shows that the majority of you guys would tank businesses with your current mind-set.

You're assuming that Microsoft's approach to this entire project was optimal.

You only need to not have been born yesterday to know that Microsoft's decisions are far from optimal.