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[jayu26]

What horror stories outside of Phantom Dust? Which has already had two sides to it, but some people are sticking with the "it's all MS fault"

Obsidian. SWERY with D4 (details are parse on that one though). But most of all shit they pulled with Level 5. You will notice a distinct lack of Level 5 games on all Xboxes. In my eyes they shall be never forgive for that.

 

[azertydu91]

That last line of my message that you quoted:

then you are incorrect again since (at the very least) The Witness, Uncharted 4, NMS, Eve: Valk, and The Order were revealed earlier.

It was only an hypothesis maybe he's just wrong And emphasized when he shouldn't have but nonetheless his point is still quite valid.

 

[watdaeff4]

Obsidian. SWERY with D4 (details are parse on that one though). But most of all shit they pulled with Level 5. You will notice a distinct lack of Level 5 games on all Xboxes. In my eyes they shall be never forgive for that.

Actually you give a great example with Obsidian. I don't know the story with Level 5 - what is it?

EDIT: duh - i didn't know they were the developers of True Fantasy ..... since you mentioned this generation initially I wasn't thinking of that game

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Obsidian. SWERY with D4 (details are parse on that one though). But most of all shit they pulled with Level 5. You will notice a distinct lack of Level 5 games on all Xboxes. In my eyes they shall be never forgive for that.

As far as D4 goes, I think it was just an extremely niche game. Even a huge advertising campaign wouldn't have saved that game - did you play it?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Obsidian. SWERY with D4 (details are parse on that one though). But most of all shit they pulled with Level 5. You will notice a distinct lack of Level 5 games on all Xboxes. In my eyes they shall be never forgive for that.

Not to mention, True Fantasy Live Online was being made for the original Xbox. That is a long ass time ago, but even when the 360 was enjoying substantially greater success, Level-5 still would not make games for the 360.

 

[flkraven]

It was only an hypothesis maybe he's just wrong And emphasized when he shouldn't have but nonetheless his point is still quite valid.

His needless exaggeration actually makes his point seem less credible. As I said before, Microsoft has fumbled enough for us to criticize them, no need to fabricate big lists in order to create senseless battles between fan boys.

Microsoft fucked up by showing this game as early as they did
Microsoft fucked up by investing in a game they weren't willing to continue to invest in to completion

But outside of that, we don't know who fucked up the development process. Did Platinum games over promise? Did Microsoft set expectations too high? We will never know both sides of the story, I'm sure.

 

[Apathy]

The handheld market might be bad now compared to the time before smartphones were the norm but it's not totally fucked. 3DS sales are 60 million+ (more than PS4 btw).

Sony just did a really shit job with the Vita. Or for lack of a better term, "stopped caring".

Why did you mention the ps4? It was released 2 years and 9 months later and is only 7m difference. What were you trying to accomplish?

 

[gamz]

Good for them?

You know, it's possible for both perspectives to be correct. I don't really have a horse in this race.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to endlessly defend Microsoft. They don't need your help and honestly, the corporate apologist is not a good look.

Just let it go.

And I don't why people feel the need to endlessly bash MS. Goes both ways and nobody knows what happened in this situation. That's all I'm saying.

 

[timberger]

Glad it looks like this looks so far like this won't have any major negative impact on Platinum going forward. Just a shame to think of how many other Platinum games we could have had already this gen if not for MS stringing them along the past few years (Probably 2 at most I guess... but at least with another publisher they'd actually have come out.).

Ah well, just one less reason to switch on this already barely used Xbox I have. Could have been worse.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to endlessly defend Microsoft. They don't need your help and honestly, the corporate apologist is not a good look.

Just let it go.

You must not read Gaf too often or you'd know what a futile effort you're making with this plea.

 

[gamz]

His needless exaggeration actually makes his point seem less credible. As I said before, Microsoft has fumbled enough for us to criticize them, no need to fabricate big lists in order to create senseless battles between fan boys.

Microsoft fucked up by showing this game as early as they did
Microsoft fucked up by investing in a game they weren't willing to continue to invest in to completion

But outside of that, we don't know who fucked up the development process. Did Platinum games over promise? Did Microsoft set expectations too high? We will never know both sides of the story, I'm sure.

We don't know that. Perhaps it was good to pull the plug on it.

 

[Arklite]

Platinum maintains its luster forever.

Though in their case they sure do flash brilliantly and fade suddenly. In a better world there's sequels to Max Anarchy and Vanquish. And Scalebound lives.

 

[Outrun]

Good for them?

You know, it's possible for both perspectives to be correct. I don't really have a horse in this race.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to endlessly defend Microsoft. They don't need your help and honestly, the corporate apologist is not a good look.

Just let it go.

It is not about being an apologist. It is merely about saying that until we have the facts, we should hold off on the bashing.

But this idea has been countered with the citation of a 13 year history of MS naughtiness, for a roundabout way of continuing the MS bashing. It is almost as if some are attempting to establish a pattern of evil in order to justify the prejudgement of MS

MS does not gaffers to help them. But that really is not the point, is it?

 

[OldRoutes]

It would be so very Microsoft if their intention all along was simply to kill off Platinum games so that they wouldn't be able to make games for their competitors anymore.

Just go take a nap and reflect on what you just said.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Really? LOL, this keeps getting better and better. Nintendo has a worse track record than MS when it comes to 3rd party games/companies. If anyone has a long hard road, it's Nintendo. Not to mention, that sure we'll have Nintendo's games. But seeing how the Switch is *Supposedly* less powerful than the PS4 and X1, how can you even make that statement?

Yes, really. Nintendo won't be competing for a share of AAA multiplatform market - they'll be competing for their share of the average consumer's pool of disposable income. There's plenty of PS4/PC owners who've flirted with the idea of getting an XB1-S, but with reasons to invest shrinking faster than the ice-caps, there'll be plenty of people putting their money elsewhere: a PS4 Pro, a Nintendo Switch or a 4K TV, etc.

More attractive alternatives in the same space are a problem for a platform that is struggling to define its own value. You're harping on rational arguments like power and catalogue, when the majority of modern marketing relies on emotional drive: nostalgia, hype, fun factor, social consensus and so on.

 

[azertydu91]

His needless exaggeration actually makes his point seem less credible. As I said before, Microsoft has fumbled enough for us to criticize them, no need to fabricate big lists in order to create senseless battles between fan boys.

Microsoft fucked up by showing this game as early as they did
Microsoft fucked up by investing in a game they weren't willing to continue to invest in to completion

But outside of that, we don't know who fucked up the development process. Did Platinum games over promise? Did Microsoft set expectations too high? We will never know both sides of the story, I'm sure.

Yeah I know the both sides arguments but we do know that platinum is a very competent studio and we also have quite the records of MS shitting the bed with dev and studios.

So yeah there can be 2 sides of a story and his exageration makes his point less credible but without exageration his point is still valid.

So I'm way more enclined to believe what adam bolton and others said than just put blind faith in the "there are two sides of a story".

If one company has a record of not being trustful and the other isn't and even better the other has already been called in to help other projects I tend to believe more in the second company than the first.

If tomorrow someone claim to have been fucked by platinum I may revised my judgment and wonder if this time it's parly or mostly on them.

 

[gamz]

Yeah I know the both sides arguments but we do know that platinum is a very competent studio and we also have quite the records of MS shitting the bed with dev and studios.

So yeah there can be 2 sides of a story and his exageration makes his point less credible but without exageration his point is still valid.

So I'm way more enclined to believe what adam bolton and others said than just put blind faith in the "there are two sides of a story".

If one company has a record of not being trustful and the other isn't and even better the other has already been called in to help other projects I tend to believe more in the second company than the first.

If tomorrow someone claim to have been fucked by platinum I may revised my judgment and wonder if this time it's parly or mostly on them.

But we also know this was his pet project and I believe their biggest and only RPG type of game. I could be wrong tho?

 

[onemanasylum]

The handheld market might be bad now compared to the time before smartphones were the norm but it's not totally fucked. 3DS sales are 60 million+ (more than PS4 btw).

Sony just did a really shit job with the Vita. Or for lack of a better term, "stopped caring".

PS4 is near 3ds and it launched nearly 3 years earlier....think about what you said.

 

[azertydu91]

But we also know this was his pet project and I believe their biggest and only RPG type of game. I could be wrong tho?

I'm sorry I'm not english and I have no idea about what you're implying.

Edit : Isn't Nier an RPG too?

 

[flkraven]

Yeah I know the both sides arguments but we do know that platinum is a very competent studio and we also have quite the records of MS shitting the bed with dev and studios.

So yeah there can be 2 sides of a story and his exageration makes his point less credible but without exageration his point is still valid.

So I'm way more enclined to believe what adam bolton and others said than just put blind faith in the "there are two sides of a story".

If one company has a record of not being trustful and the other isn't and even better the other has already been called in to help other projects I tend to believe more in the second company than the first.

If tomorrow someone claim to have been fucked by platinum I may revised my judgment and wonder if this time it's parly or mostly on them.

I thought this post by StoOge was pretty insightful:

As the owner of a publisher (board games, but still), its amazing how much behind the scenes stuff can go wrong. Usually the smaller party (designer) is the one that crows the loudest to sources. It behooves MS in absolutely no way to shit talk a designer, but the designer needs to get it out there that it was not their fault so that future partners are not scared off.

We'll never know what exactly happened here and where blame lies. I've had designers publicly announce changes to a game weeks before it went to release, and then publicly blame me for the games failings in forums. I read it, I know the story is far more complicated, and I said absolutely nothing. Because it benefits me in no way at all to get into the weeds.

But Platinum sounds a lot like Chip Kelly after he got fired.:

http://deadspin.com/chip-kelly-is-playing-the-game-1790708785

In the case of this product, my guess is the budget creep was not going to align with sales expectations. It was a red meat announcement at a time that MS needed to win back the core gamers trust. It didn't work beyond some hooting and hollering at E3, it was clear based on sales of other red meat titles (ReCore) that this strategy was a money losing gambit that was not getting them the gamers they wanted to grab. Likely bc Sony was engaged in the same activity (TLG, FF7 remake, etc) and staved off any possible momentum MS might have had with that demo. So, when you are a pet project with limited financial upside on the sales end, missing deadlines and budget milestones is going to be an easy call from the publishers perspective.

This likely also does not bode well for Crackdown, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Rymuth]

You know the source of those complaints of shitty treatment of devs? Forum posts by random individuals.

MS treats their devs like their favorite children who can do no wrong.

There, does that ease your concern? No idea if it's true but it doesn't seem to matter to anyone else.

Inb4BishPM

 

[LastMinuteHero]

Inb4BishPM

Unrelated but can he still bish check people? Since he is retired

 

[azertydu91]

I thought this post by StoOge was pretty insightful:

So he's basically saying thet Microsoft contracted platinum to look good but in the end just canned it because it would cost too much compared to their gains yeah that's quite possible I understand that you don't cancel something that can make you gain money but it doesn't mean anything about what happened between MS and P*.

 

[Dargor]

Unrelated but can he still bish check people? Since he is retired

I miss Bish, no one was crazy enough to claim to be or have insider knowledge when he was around lol.

 

[flkraven]

So he's basically saying thet Microsoft contracted platinum to look good but in the end just canned it because it would cost too much compared to their gains yeah that's quite possible I understand that you don't cancel something that can make you gain money but it doesn't mean anything about what happened between MS and P*.

He's basically saying that in these kinds of relationships, it's actually detrimental to Microsoft to talk poorly about a developer. Meanwhile, it's in the best interest of the developer to make it seem they had no control over the shortcomings.

 

[Admodieus]

For me it isn't that. It is the fact that this was the one that I can't just brush off. So a few games get cancelled and it happens. This game was a new series that was deep into development. This game showed that there was still new ideas coming down the line. Not a sequel, not an established franchise, but something new and creative.

The demise of it leaves little hope for the future line up form xbox, at least for me. I love Halo and will continue to play it. I have Forza and Gears, but haven't played them to great extent. My problem is what else do we have to look forward to now?

I have Recore and Quantum Break and enjoyed them both greatly, but they weren't the huge hits that I think they should have been. So what do we have moving forward? It is just a low point for the community. Not directly related to Scalebound, but it represents the future of xbox as a whole, at least for me.

Exactly, this is a microcosm of a trend that has been worrying me about XBox since 2009. I've been rooting for them to pull off a comeback for at least two years now, but this has let almost all the air out of the balloon for me. Since 2009, what first party games have they released? Here's a list - tell me if you can spot the trends.

2009

• Forza 3
• Halo 3: ODST
• Halo Wars
• Ninja Blade

2010

• Alan Wake
• Crackdown 2
• Fable 3
• Halo: Reach
• Kinect Sports
• Kinectimals
• Kinect Adventures
• Kinect Joy Ride

2011

• Forza 4
• Gears of War 3
• Gunstringer
• Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
• Kinect Disneyland Adventures
• Kinect Sports Season Two

2012

• Fable: The Journey
• Forza Horizon
• Halo 4
• Kinect Rush
• Kinect Star Wars

2013

• Dead Rising 3
• Forza 5
• Killer Instinct
• Ryse
• Zoo Tycoon
• Gears of War Judgement (360)

2014

• Forza Horizon 2
• Halo: Master Chief Collection
• Kinect Sports Rivals
• Minecraft
• Project Spark
• Sunset Overdrive

2015

• Forza 6
• Gears of War Ultimate Edition
• Halo 5: Guardians
• Rare Replay
• ScreamRide
• Ori and the Blind Forest

2016

• Dead Rising 4
• Forza Horizon 3
• Gears of War 4
• Quantum Break
• ReCore

 

[azertydu91]

He's basically saying that in these kinds of relationships, it's actually detrimental to Microsoft to talk poorly about a developer. Meanwhile, it's in the best interest of the developer to make it seem they had no control over the shortcomings.

Except that it's not the dev that mentionned their bad relashionship with MS.
So kinda moot point here but I'll bite.
So you're basically saying that all thoses dev and studio that now refuses to work with MS (level 5 and I want to say jonhatan blow even though The witness came out on Xbox I believe?) because it's in their best interest? So do they lie? and are all the rumors false?

 

[justsomeguy]

For me it isn't that. It is the fact that this was the one that I can't just brush off. So a few games get cancelled and it happens. This game was a new series that was deep into development. This game showed that there was still new ideas coming down the line. Not a sequel, not an established franchise, but something new and creative.

The demise of it leaves little hope for the future line up form xbox, at least for me. I love Halo and will continue to play it. I have Forza and Gears, but haven't played them to great extent. My problem is what else do we have to look forward to now?

Yup. E3 needs to go big on games, not just Scorpio.

 

[justsomeguy]

I miss Bish, no one was crazy enough to claim to be or have insider knowledge when he was around lol.

Wait, what? I missed this news...

 

[azertydu91]

Exactly, this is a microcosm of a trend that has been worrying me about XBox since 2009. I've been rooting for them to pull off a comeback for at least two years now, but this has let almost all the air out of the balloon for me. Since 2009, what first party games have they released? Here's a list - tell me if you can spot the trends.

2009

• Forza 3
• Halo 3: ODST
• Halo Wars
• Ninja Blade

2010

• Alan Wake
• Crackdown 2
• Fable 3
• Halo: Reach
• Kinect Sports
• Kinectimals
• Kinect Adventures
• Kinect Joy Ride

2011

• Forza 4
• Gears of War 3
• Gunstringer
• Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary
• Kinect Disneyland Adventures
• Kinect Sports Season Two

2012

• Fable: The Journey
• Forza Horizon
• Halo 4
• Kinect Rush
• Kinect Star Wars

2013

• Dead Rising 3
• Forza 5
• Killer Instinct
• Ryse
• Zoo Tycoon
• Gears of War Judgement (360)

2014

• Forza Horizon 2
• Halo: Master Chief Collection
• Kinect Sports Rivals
• Minecraft
• Project Spark
• Sunset Overdrive

2015

• Forza 6
• Gears of War Ultimate Edition
• Halo 5: Guardians
• Rare Replay
• ScreamRide
• Ori and the Blind Forest

2016

• Dead Rising 4
• Forza Horizon 3
• Gears of War 4
• Quantum Break
• ReCore

I wouldn't count Minecraft in it since it came out before Ms bought mojang (except if it came out like on wii or ps4 after the buyout, I don't know)

 

[breveglieri]

Exactly, this is a microcosm of a trend that has been worrying me about XBox since 2009. I've been rooting for them to pull off a comeback for at least two years now, but this has let almost all the air out of the balloon for me. Since 2009, what first party games have they released? Here's a list - tell me if you can spot the trends.

If you don't like MP centered games or don't like Forza, Halo and GoW, you're screwed.

 

[Sora the Cat]

I can't trust a MS presentation now. They let me down so many times, from now on I'll just assume that every new game they show has a 50/50 chance of never coming out.

 

[Dargor]

Wait, what? I missed this news...

All I know is that it seems he retired from Gaf moderation duty.

 

[Lifeline]

So I'm confused here.. I looked back at the E3 2014 page on IGN for Microsoft:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06...news-from-microsofts-e3-2014-press-conference

And these exclusives were also shown:

Forza Horizon 2 - Released
Dance Central - Released
Sunset Overdrive - Released
Super Ultra Dead Rising 3 Arcade Remix Edition - Released immediately
Rise of the Tomb Raider - Released

Do those fit your model? And if they don't, what criteria are you using? Everyone has an agenda (including myself) however, it's clear you are just trying to paint this as negatively as possible. Microsoft has fumbled the ball a few times, you don't need to stretch yourself out to make it look worse.

If you are limiting your list to games 'revealed' in 2014, then you are incorrect again since (at the very least) The Witness, Uncharted 4, NMS, Eve: Valk, and The Order were revealed earlier.

I omitted the games that were coming out the same year. PS4 had LB3 coming out the same year and also Entwined which came out during the conference. Since we're comparing how many games ended up coming out, listing games coming out in the next couple months seemed pointless and Sony had a shit ton of indies i would have to list that were announced as console exclusives coming out the same year.

Basically list is of games shown at the E3 2014 conference that didn't come out in 2014.

I did miss Rise of the Tomb Raider, I used GameSpot E3 Summary and it wasn't listed on there. Just checked and I missed it because it's listed as multi platform, Exclusivity wasn't confirmed till August (possibly at Gamescom, i don't remember)

 

[Apathy]

All I know is that it seems he retired from Gaf moderation duty.

Evilore replaced him in his heart and soon in the moderator department with Obama. We all know it's true.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Yup. E3 needs to go big on games, not just Scorpio.

how can we know that any games shown will actually happen tho

 

[Dargor]

Evilore replaced him in his heart and soon in the moderator department with Obama. We all know it's true.

lol

 

[Kssio_Aug]

If you don't like MP centered games or don't like Forza, Halo and GoW, you're screwed.

I kind agree. Xbox One has been a great platform for me, and till this date I'd say it was easily worth more than PS4 at this point. However there's also a reason: it is my first Xbox console ever and I was interested in trying Gears and Halo and in fact I did enjoy both of them... so XB1 allowed me to play, for the 1st time, the entire Halo and Gears main series (which sums up about 10 great games). I also happened to enjoy Forza Horizon 2 a ton, besides FH3 feeling pretty much the same so I felt kind burnt.

That said, as someone new to this Xbox world the platform was well worth it. But I'm not sure how I would feel if I had already played and finished the entire Halo and Gears series before, maybe not so satisfied. Still, if the player a is fan of their traditional 1st party games they still offer them with high quality and support.

 

[flkraven]

I omitted the games that were coming out the same year. PS4 had LB3 coming out the same year and also Entwined which came out during the conference. Since we're comparing how many games ended up coming out, listing games coming out in the next couple months seemed pointless and Sony had a shit ton of indies i would have to list that were announced as console exclusives coming out the same year.

Basically list is of games shown at the E3 2014 conference that didn't come out in 2014.

I did miss Rise of the Tomb Raider, I used GameSpot E3 Summary and it wasn't listed on there. Just checked and I missed it because it's listed as multi platform, Exclusivity wasn't confirmed till after the conference.

That seems like a weird distinction? Seems like an arbitrary cut off.

 

[Novocaine]

PS4 is near 3ds and it launched nearly 3 years earlier....think about what you said.

The Vita didn't though, that was the actual point of contention. But for the sake of less confusion and avoiding any more cherry picking I'll remove that part of the post.

 

[big_z]

how can we know that any games shown will actually happen tho

they need a reason to sell the upgrade.... its practically a new gen console compared to the pro and the pro hasn't burnt up the charts so Microsoft needs to push it hard if they want scorpio to be a success.

They need new games to sell the thing. Just saying cars look sharper in forza wont cut it.

 

[Lifeline]

That seems like a weird distinction? Seems like an arbitrary cut off.

Like i said, I'm comparing how many of the games shown at E3 ended up coming out and of course the ones that were coming out that same fall came out. I didn't omit from one side, both sides showed a ton of games for that same year.

 

[icespide]

guys stop with the list shit. They're never prove of anything and there's always a thousand caveats and asterisks

 

[flkraven]

guys stop with the list shit. They're never proof of anything and there's always a thousand caveats and asterisks

Wow. I'm shocked. I totally agree.

 

[LordKasual]

And...I took time off for my mental health? ...Me!?

No way.

<3 <3 <3 <3

never change you mother fucker

 

[hydrophilic attack]

they need a reason to sell the upgrade.... its practically a new gen console compared to the pro and the pro hasn't burnt up the charts so Microsoft needs to push it hard if they want scorpio to be a success.

They need new games to sell the thing. Just saying cars look sharper in forza wont cut it.

I thought the difference was ~6 Teraflop vs ~4 Teraflop so about 50 %, i.e. about the same difference as between OG PS4 and OG XBO.

Anyway, it seems to me they primarily will count on better versions of multiplats and fan loyalty to sell the box. Any games shown off at their E3 which isn't Halo, Forza or Gears and isn't a hard 2017 release, I will just assume have a 50 % chance of not ever being released.

 

[Outrun]

Wait, what? I missed this news...

WFT?

Bish is gone?

(Watch Bish ban me instantaneously!)

EDIT: Thank you Spurs for defeating Chelsea,

Regards,

LFC fan.

 

[Outrun]

All I know is that it seems he retired from Gaf moderation duty.

Wow,

Well, he retired as a 5 fucking star general

 

[MDSLKTR]

Yup. E3 needs to go big on games, not just Scorpio.

It will be a very sad day if it's only 4k demos of EA and Ubisoft new games.

 

[Outrun]

It will be a very sad day if it's only 4k demos of EA and Ubisoft new games.

I think the chances are good that we get 4K gameplay for Forza 7

 

[Roberto Larcos]

If you don't like MP centered games or don't like Forza, Halo and GoW, you're screwed.

I'm not sure how this keeps getting perpetuated, but it's false.

Look at the 2015-16 exclusives. Rare Replay, single player. Forza 6, massive single player with online functionality. Screamride, single player. Ori, single player. Dead Rising 4, single player. Forza Horizon 3, massive single player with online functionality. Quantum Break, single player. Record, single player. Rise of the Tomb Raider (timed exclusive), single player.

I include Forza games in that list as the online has clearly taken absolutely nothing out of the single player, as is often the claim made for shooters. I'd also say it's harsh to overlook Gears 4 and Halo 5 if you're a single player only gamer - there's still something there for you - they aren't a Star Wars Battlefront or Titanfall 1.

Between third party releases, there's plenty of meat there for most gamers. I think GAF is hardcore by design, but for more casual gamers like myself, it's plenty.