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Windows Central on US December NPD: PS4 sold 1,568,000 (238K Pro), XB1 sold 1,511,000
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
He can't because of NDA. Which the last time I signed one of those, NDA's always have a clause that says "Don't mention publicly or privately that you have signed a NDA about the terms of the agreement". So in fact, if he's speaking the truth (which takes a serious of leaps of faith to believe) he already broked it.
Also the last time I saw a game consultant speak about his job, one of the stuff they say is that the NDA is pretty strict and it lasts long after the game is shipped. So you can't say you worked on game X even after launch, other clause is about not being able to work in developing games at the same time you are hired to consult in a game because of conflict of interests and possibly stealing information. But hey what do I know about this. I'm just an insider like everyone else on GAF.
Pro looks to be selling as well as i imagined for something not advertised and not needed by most people. I imagine the scorpio will sell the same if they don't show clear benefits for those willing to upgrade. We know 4k is impossible to demo if you have 1080p tvs. We know hdr is impossible to demo unless your tv is capable lo hdr. Which leaves graphics...scorpio need to make games look substantially better...that's a big ask.
Birgitte2004
Member
To me 238K Pro is a really good amount of sales, December or no, given what the Pro is.
To then come here and read how bad it's doing blows my mind.
To then come here and read how bad it's doing blows my mind.
Bitch Pudding
Member
When the Pro and Slim were announced in September, we got the following MSRPs:
Slim 500GB $299 (1TB $349)
Pro 1TB $399
Both prices didn't include a game.
Based on the original prices quite a lot people, myself included, said that the Pro offers far more bang for the bucks.
But while Pro's price was kept intact during holiday season (except maybe BF when I also got mine) the Slim was basically all the time reduced to $249 including a bundled game.
So, long story short, price is the main differentiator here.
But I asume we'll get to know how good a $349 Pro Horizon bundle is going to sell this holiday.
LastMinuteHero
Member
What this guy said
i think scorpio may have better sales compared to XB than PS4PRo compared to PS4, since XBO seems to be doing worse than last year WW and needs lots of deals to keep selling decently (and only in the US and maybe UK). It is also a bigger upgrade compared to XBO than PS4P is compared to PS4 and also comes one year later so the 'thirst' of a new generation is slowly approaching. If PS4P sales are + or - 15% pf total ps4 sales Scorpio may go higher than that , maybe 25/30% of XB family sales.
Different situation here, despite some similarities too.
enixbelmont
Member
Do you think Pro will continue getting support for every game? With the low sales I'm worried I wasted more of my money than I originally though. Hope they continue pushing it as much as they have(which is fine)
BradleyLove
Member
Man, I wish Bish was still around...
That being said, I acknowledge it's a heavy burden but I'm willing to step up and wield the mighty ban hammer in his stead ;-)
That being said, I acknowledge it's a heavy burden but I'm willing to step up and wield the mighty ban hammer in his stead ;-)
ethomaz
Banned
Well you can be right..,
But 25/30% of XB1 family sales will fall below 15% of PS4 family sales.
PS4 family is actually selling 2:1 (or even a bit higher) over XB1 family WW.
Unless you can convey to the customer how big the upgrade is, it won't factor into its sales. The pro had this problem. Yes the scorpio is a bigger jump than the pro is. But the pro isn't hitting 4k natively and games look largely the same across ps4 and pro in regards to assets. A lot of the additional power of the scorpio will simply be making games actually native 4k. I'm not sure much would be left over to make a game look noticably better too on top of that. So if 4k gaming is MS's push. The same way it is the pro. They have an hell of a job actually showing off those differences and making people want to throw down $400+ for it.
Price, more than power, as always, is the thing MS needs to be chasing. Scorpio either needs to be cheap or it need to have games that look night and day better on the scorpio. Better models, better textures, better lighting, better effects...it kinda needs to look like a new gen, even if it isn't one. A resolution boost and HDR isn't going to achieve that.
What's with these bullshit "Pro can't do native 4K" claims lately?
oh agree, total sales may be behind ps4pro (that without considering price drops next year and blundles for ps4p that will be the case for sure), but the % of sales compared to the vanilla console may be higher because of the situation of XBO compared to Ps4
despite MS saying it is an upgrade and not a new generation, i am sure that many want to believe that , especially some XB hardcore supporters, and that may help boost sales a bit, and maybe MS may spin a bit the message and present the scorpio in a way that may confuse the average consumer to think it is a 'new gen' console, unlike sony that has been really quiet regarding PS4pro.
We will see. But i think sony is experimenting with the pro, instead of going full steam with it, to see how the market responds and then adapt its future strategy .
Sad Affleck
Member
It means that the Pro can't do 4K in most big graphically intensive games which is true.
ethomaz
Banned
Same for Scorpio... it will need compromisses to reach 4k with 6 AMD TFs.
What will happen is the native resolution will be bigger on Scorpio than Pro but both will less 4k native games than sub-4k.
You can think that way...
Pro: 1440p
Scorpio: 1800p
Even so that difference is near 60% while the raw power is close to 45%.
PS. Games running 1800p native on Pro will probably be 4k on Scorpio.
True.
A 15% uptake overall is about what in line with what I expected.
The Pro was $400 with no pack in game during the most budget conscious period of the year.
We will likely never have a full picture of worldwide Pro sales.
People need to redefine can't.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
As long as Sony has a blanket policy to include support, yeah, of course it will.
Bits N Pieces
Member
The Pro is out in the wild, Scorpio isn't. You cant really back up your claim.
No, it doesn't mean that. So the claim is bullshit.
And doesn't NBA 2K17, for example, run in native 4K/60fps? I wouldn't call NBA2K17 a small indie title / non graphical intensive game. It's damn good looking, even tho it isn't Uncharted 4.
In the end, the "can't do native 4K" comments are nonsense.
ethomaz
Banned
Just a reminder: The pro is still supply constrained (ww not US only) and was was super hard to get before christmas. Even in bigger markets like germany.
Right now - not available on amazon.de - next marketplace offer is 450.-€
And several users here have posted how hard it is to get in their country.
Keep in mind that the biggest growth for PS4 has been outside the US. And while US seems to be down YoY - EU+RotW YoY was up (although most pro shipments seem to have been delegatedto the US)
I'd recommend to wait to judge the PS4 Pro until we hear more about ww Pro sales.
Think Sony will sell more than consoles in Q1 2017 because there is still unmatched demand for the Pro.
LordRaptor
Member
Sony "can't" release a title that looks worse in screenshots and 1080p youtube videos on the PS4Pro than it does on a regular PS4.
Happy?
I think that by the time 4k screens are mainstream enough and when the hardware is there to support it in a cost effective manner (because it clearly isn't, the 1080 is the only real 4k solution out there and it is a for-tune), Sony will be readying the PS5.
Pro is pretty much a stop gap until that point.
Bits N Pieces
Member
GPU, CPU, Bandwith etc all contribute to the power of the machine. We don't know what it can it can't do.
So rather than stating opinion as fact it would be better to wait and see what it can or cannot achieve, right?
LastMinuteHero
Member
I can vouch for that. Pro was out of stock in my country (Malaysia) since last november, though restocked just recently. I hear that other countries aren't faring better though. Some are still waiting until march.
For me is a good number as well. But Ive read here some people saying that was going to move between 2 to 3 million on holidays. For those, I guess is underperforming.
more and more old games will add Pro support, not only new ones as we have seen in recent examples.
The Pro sales aren't actually all that low, and seems to be doing what Sony expected if the amazon listings from various countries going in and out of stock, and local stores over here consistently going out of stock, is any indicator. Especially when you consider the fact that Sony barely marketed, it launched during the holiday season where both the slim and the xb1s were getting bundle deals, and it wasn't bundled at all with anything.
Devs also know that the folks who buy a Pro (or Scorpio in the future) are consumers who are likely to buy more games as well. It's basically the same exact reasoning as releasing an exclusive for a new gen console, except this is not going to be exclusive, and the work required to have an enhanced mode/patch is insignificant when compared to developing a game for an entirely new platform at the start of a generation.
Also, seeing as there are nearly 90 games with the Pro patch already, that "virtually all games going forward will have Pro support after it launches" thing that was in the blog post may as well have been a confirmation of there being some sort of requirement for all devs, that can be waived in certain circumstances.
ethomaz
Banned
You can put a Core i7 on Scorpio that won't change it 6TFs AMD GPU not being enough for 4k at actual console graphic quality... you reach a GPU bootleneck even with the strongest CPU, memory, etc.
You will probably see Forza 4k but not Halo 4k, Quantum Break 4k, Battlefield 4k, The Division 4k, etc for example because the GPU won't give you that no matter what the rest of the system looks like.
But I know part of users in GAF are setting themselves for disappointments.
We don't have numbers for the GPU it will be based on the Vega. Also I don't see why 90% of games can't run at 4k/30 with console settings honestly. It won't be trying to run ultra settings but a mix of medium and high.
ethomaz
Banned
Do you believe Vega 6TFs will be better than Polaris 6TFs??? C'mon the difference will be less than 5% because both are the same GCN 1.4... Vega will indeed have some updated parts over Polaris mostly about GPU compute, memory controller, etc but it won't be drastic because both are the same architecture.
6 AMD TFs is not enough for what you wish no matter how amazing is the rest of the system (CPU, memory, etc).
And yes with 6 AMD TFs over 80% of the games won't run in 4k unless they start to use mid to low PC settings that will give you worst graphic quality than actual consoles using high to mid.
Maybe you are expecting that...
XB1: 900p high to mid PC settings
Scorpio: 4k mid to low PC settings
That won't happen because it will be a bad marketing for MS... you will have the same graphic quality or better on Scorpio but that won't give you 4k... you can be sure you will see a lot of Dynamic Resolution games running from 1400p to up 4k.
Push it back to 2020 then because there is no next generation until 7nm is mature enough for a large APU. The next add I see for the pro will be the first. I think Sony really went the conservative route on the Pro. I think they are scared to piss off those who bought a PS4 already so stealth launched the Pro to see what happens. The Pro numbers are fine for a device that had 0 Marketing budget. Now if Sony ever steps up the Marketing of the Pro and the numbers are low then we can talk.
Humdinger
Member
Good, well-reasoned post, from an angle I hadn't considered.
I'll just comment on the obvious, which is that the Pro will really have to pick up the pace to hit 25-30% in Jan - March, since that is twice the ratio we're seeing at the moment.
This is why pro was rushed to me. Gpu is good but everything tied into the pro is poor. It's exactly a og PS4 tech with a bump in gpu.
Scorpio looks to refresh the whole system which will make a huge difference other than more raw power and a better gpu architecture. It's like pro is a chevy cobalt with a engine boost while the Scorpio is a Nissan GT-R with awd all the swaz
The pro was always intended for this to be the case as it was designed as a relatively cheap iterative unit for 2016 that would not break their own bank.
People need to understand that this was always an optional device with limited success rate. This is why Sony put out the Slim as their low cost option, it was always going to dwarf the Pro sales and will continue to do so until Slim and Pro are retired or Pro is remolded into the base device at a cheaper price
Nightengale
Member
Jan-Mar sales will be far, far, far less than Nov/Dec, and thus I expect Pro volume to be higher contextually in those months to a higher ratio.
Just forget that we already know its got over 56% memory bandwidth over the Pro which is probably in a unified memory pool with 4GB more...
Also, if it does turn about to Vega, I'd be surprised if it stays at 6TF with it being super underclocked. I get the feeling they gave the 6TF number with a lot of safety.
They could have done better. Just because it's a "mid gen upgrade" doesn't mean the hardware doesn't need to be pushed. If you're making a new product go as much you can for it. That's what I believe. Money shouldn't be a problem for them so why not
Get out of here with all this sound logic.
It's exactly what some have been saying too. Backed up with some numbers to make it more clearer.
Humdinger
Member
Could be. All that holiday shopping (where price would play a huge factor) would be gone. You'd have more core gamers, proportionally.
It's nice that we're getting PS4 vs. Pro numbers. I never expected them.
One big factor is marketing. Sony did not put a lot (if any) marketing into the PS4 Pro and maybe that was a smart decision as it might confuse the average consumer.
I don't think that will be the case for Scorpio. MS will be shouting about its power and capabilities and you will see that everywhere.
I don't think that will be the case for Scorpio. MS will be shouting about its power and capabilities and you will see that everywhere.
And this is why I waited for Scorpio for my mid gen upgrade
Is that news now? Tier 2 doesn't exist for Microsoft.