Ok I gotta know the story behind this. And isn't this so called "insider" supposed to get vet first before running his mouth
To me 238K Pro is a really good amount of sales, December or no, given what the Pro is.
To then come here and read how bad it's doing blows my mind.
What this guy said*snip*
Pro looks to be selling as well as i imagined for something not advertised and not needed by most people. I imagine the scorpio will sell the same if they don't show clear benefits for those willing to upgrade. We know 4k is impossible to demo if you have 1080p tvs. We know hdr is impossible to demo unless your tv is capable lo hdr. Which leaves graphics...scorpio need to make games look substantially better...that's a big ask.
Well you can be right..,i think scorpio may have better sales compared to XB than PS4PRo compared to PS4, since XBO seems to be doing worse than last year WW and needs lots of deals to keep selling decently (and only in the US and maybe UK). It is also a bigger upgrade compared to XBO than PS4P is compared to PS4 and also comes one year later so the 'thirst' of a new generation is slowly approaching. If PS4P sales are + or - 15% pf total ps4 sales Scorpio may go higher than that , maybe 25/30% of XB family sales.
Different situation here, despite some similarities too.
i think scorpio may have better sales compared to XB than PS4PRo compared to PS4, since XBO seems to be doing worse than last year WW and needs lots of deals to keep selling decently (and only in the US and maybe UK). It is also a bigger upgrade compared to XBO than PS4P is compared to PS4 and also comes one year later so the 'thirst' of a new generation is slowly approaching. If PS4P sales are + or - 15% pf total ps4 sales Scorpio may go higher than that , maybe 25/30% of XB family sales.
Different situation here, despite some similarities too.
What's with these bullshit "Pro can't do native 4K" claims lately?The pro does seem like a mistep by Sony. It's not a particularly meaningful upgrade over ps4 slim, can't do native 4k, and doesn't have a UHD blu ray player. The values just not there. They should've waited a year or two until native 4k was possible and released a more substantial upgrade, especially considering base ps4 is killing it anyway.
Well you can be right..,
But 25/30% of XB1 family sales will fall below 15% of PS4 family sales.
PS4 family is actually selling 2:1 (or even a bit higher) over XB1 family WW.
Unless you can convey to the customer how big the upgrade is, it won't factor into its sales. The pro had this problem. Yes the scorpio is a bigger jump than the pro is. But the pro isn't hitting 4k natively and games look largely the same across ps4 and pro in regards to assets. A lot of the additional power of the scorpio will simply be making games actually native 4k. I'm not sure much would be left over to make a game look noticably better too on top of that. So if 4k gaming is MS's push. The same way it is the pro. They have an hell of a job actually showing off those differences and making people want to throw down $400+ for it.
Price, more than power, as always, is the thing MS needs to be chasing. Scorpio either needs to be cheap or it need to have games that look night and day better on the scorpio. Better models, better textures, better lighting, better effects...it kinda needs to look like a new gen, even if it isn't one. A resolution boost and HDR isn't going to achieve that.
What's with these bullshit "Pro can't do native 4K" claims lately?
Same for Scorpio... it will need compromisses to reach 4k with 6 AMD TFs.It means that the Pro can't do 4K in most big graphically intensive games which is true.
To me 238K Pro is a really good amount of sales, December or no, given what the Pro is.
To then come here and read how bad it's doing blows my mind.
So any idea how many pro are in the wild now (worldwide)?
It means that the Pro can't do 4K in most big graphically intensive games which is true.
Do you think Pro will continue getting support for every game? With the low sales I'm worried I wasted more of my money than I originally though. Hope they continue pushing it as much as they have(which is fine)
Same for Scorpio... it will need compromisses to reach 4k with 6 AMD TFs.
What will happen is the native resolution will be bigger on Scorpio than Pro but both will less 4k native games than sub-4k.
You can think that way...
Pro: 1440p
Scorpio: 1800p
Even so that difference is near 60% while the raw power is close to 45%.
PS. Games running 1800p native on Pro will probably be 4k on Scorpio.
It means that the Pro can't do 4K in most big graphically intensive games which is true.
I can unless MS change the GPU specs.The Pro is out in the wild, Scorpio isn't. You cant really back up your claim.
Do you think Pro will continue getting support for every game? With the low sales I'm worried I wasted more of my money than I originally though. Hope they continue pushing it as much as they have(which is fine)
People need to redefine can't.
The pro does seem like a mistep by Sony. It's not a particularly meaningful upgrade over ps4 slim, can't do native 4k, and doesn't have a UHD blu ray player. The values just not there. They should've waited a year or two until native 4k was possible and released a more substantial upgrade, especially considering base ps4 is killing it anyway.
I can unless MS change the GPU specs.
6TFs AMD GPU is that what you will have.
I can vouch for that. Pro was out of stock in my country (Malaysia) since last november, though restocked just recently. I hear that other countries aren't faring better though. Some are still waiting until march.Just a reminder: The pro is still supply constrained (ww not US only) and was was super hard to get before christmas. Even in bigger markets like germany.
Right now - not available on amazon.de - next marketplace offer is 450.-
And several users here have posted how hard it is to get in their country.
Keep in mind that the biggest growth for PS4 has been outside the US. And while US seems to be down YoY - EU+RotW YoY was up (although most pro shipments seem to have been delegatedto the US)
I'd recommend to wait to judge the PS4 Pro until we hear more about ww Pro sales.
Think Sony will sell more than consoles in Q1 2017 because there is still unmatched demand for the Pro.
To me 238K Pro is a really good amount of sales, December or no, given what the Pro is.
To then come here and read how bad it's doing blows my mind.
Do you think Pro will continue getting support for every game? With the low sales I'm worried I wasted more of my money than I originally though. Hope they continue pushing it as much as they have(which is fine)
The Pro sales aren't actually all that low, and seems to be doing what Sony expected if the amazon listings from various countries going in and out of stock, and local stores over here consistently going out of stock, is any indicator. Especially when you consider the fact that Sony barely marketed, it launched during the holiday season where both the slim and the xb1s were getting bundle deals, and it wasn't bundled at all with anything.Do you think Pro will continue getting support for every game? With the low sales I'm worried I wasted more of my money than I originally though. Hope they continue pushing it as much as they have(which is fine)
You can put a Core i7 on Scorpio that won't change it 6TFs AMD GPU not being enough for 4k at actual console graphic quality... you reach a GPU bootleneck even with the strongest CPU, memory, etc.GPU, CPU, Bandwith etc all contribute to the power of the machine. We don't know what it can it can't do.
So rather than stating opinion as fact it would be better to wait and see what it can or cannot achieve, right?
You can put a Core i7 on Scorpio that won't change it 6TFs AMD GPU not being enough for 4k in the console quality... you reach a GPU bootleneck even with the strongest CPU, memory, etc.
Do you believe Vega 6TFs will be better than Polaris 6TFs??? C'mon the difference will be less than 5% because both are the same GCN 1.4... Vega will indeed have some updated parts over Polaris mostly about GPU compute, memory controller, etc but it won't be drastic because both are the same architecture.We don't have numbers for the GPU it will be based on the Vega. Also I don't see why 90% of games can't run at 4k/30 with console settings honestly. It won't be trying to run ultra settings but a mix of medium and high.
Bad numbers for pro. Makes me think the mid generation upgrade won't catch on like some feared. Have to imagine Microsoft is keeping and eye on the pros performance, I could see Scorpio being pushed back and upgraded into Xbox two.
When talking about PS4 Pro, I find it weird most of the time people dont factor in Sonys 20 million PS4s fiscal year target as part of the analysis and positioning of where Sony estimated the Pro to sell and where their position is.
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If you were to ask me what would constitute as a success for Pro, given Sonys 20mil context, it would be for Pro: Slim ratio to be around 25-30 : 75-70 for January, February and March, while PS4 Slim sales has shown minimal drop from previous years YoY sales, enough for Pro to make up for the loss in sales by being additive to the total.
If it fails to deliver that 25-30% ratio, then I would consider Pro to be disappointing.
GPU, CPU, Bandwith etc all contribute to the power of the machine. We don't know what it can it can't do.
So rather than stating opinion as fact it would be better to wait and see what it can or cannot achieve, right?
This is why pro was rushed to me. Gpu is good but everything tied into the pro is poor. It's exactly a og PS4 tech with a bump in gpu.
Scorpio looks to refresh the whole system which will make a huge difference other than more raw power and a better gpu architecture. It's like pro is a chevy cobalt with a engine boost while the Scorpio is a Nissan GT-R with awd all the swaz
Good, well-reasoned post, from an angle I hadn't considered.
I'll just comment on the obvious, which is that the Pro will really have to pick up the pace to hit 25-30% in Jan - March, since that is twice the ratio we're seeing at the moment.
Just forget that we already know its got over 56% memory bandwidth over the Pro which is probably in a unified memory pool with 4GB more...Same for Scorpio... it will need compromisses to reach 4k with 6 AMD TFs.
What will happen is the native resolution will be bigger on Scorpio than Pro but both will less 4k native games than sub-4k.
You can think that way...
Pro: 1440p
Scorpio: 1800p
Even so that difference is near 60% while the raw power is close to 45%.
PS. Games running 1800p native on Pro will probably be 4k on Scorpio.
The pro was always intended for this to be the case as it was designed as a relatively cheap iterative unit for 2016 that would not break their own bank.
People need to understand that this was always an optional device with limited success rate. This is why Sony put out the Slim as their low cost option, it was always going to dwarf the Pro sales and will continue to do so until Slim and Pro are retired or Pro is remolded into the base device at a cheaper price
When talking about PS4 Pro, I find it weird most of the time people dont factor in Sonys 20 million PS4s fiscal year target as part of the analysis and positioning of where Sony estimated the Pro to sell and where their position is.
Lets run by the facts that we know:
Last fiscal year, Sony shipped 17.7 million PS4s.
This fiscal year, Sony aims to ship 20 million PS4s (inc.Pro)
Despite outperforming their first quarter shipment YoY, Sony did not raise their 20mil estimate.
In other words, Sony was looking to either maintain, or have a small growth in total PS4 Slim sales.
If we estimate that Sony was aiming for growth of Slim and Pro to contribute the balance of sales...
That means theyre looking at:
PS4 Slim: ~18 million
PS4 Pro: ~ 2 million
You can +/- 500k, give or take depending on whether you view 18 mil is too high too low, but in general its definitely within that ballpark.
For a product that is planned to be sold in the market for 5 months (Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar) to only have a sales target of around 2 million means one thing.
Sony was not expecting PS4 Pro to be a big seller.
The product, at least for this fiscal year, is positioned to be supplementary, with the idea that it can deliver an additive boost in sales not unlike stuff like XL, etc. The jump in power is giving people the illusion that this was a special product, but honestly, if you just look at everything weve seen regarding the Pro in hindsight... it is everything Sony has claimed it to be. Those who tried to look beyond that are just dreaming.
The lack of any Pro product bundle, or positioning to take advantage of holiday sales.
The fact that marketing was notably muted, as seen by the lower ad spend by Sony.
The fact that PS4 Pro is undershipped in Asian regions, with healthy stock supply only in Mar/Apr.
With that being said, I would not yet say PS4 Pro is doing well.
I would say that as of Nov/Dec, theyre probably within expectations, but Nov/Dec is a nebulous two months of extremely high sales driven by pricing and deals; not to mention Nov is the launch month for Pro, that the ratio % of Pro:Slim might be misleading of how sales will trend once were out of the launch month into the slower Q1-Q3 periods.
If you were to ask me what would constitute as a success for Pro, given Sonys 20mil context, it would be for Pro: Slim ratio to be around 25-30 : 75-70 for January, February and March, while PS4 Slim sales has shown minimal drop from previous years YoY sales, enough for Pro to make up for the loss in sales by being additive to the total.
If it fails to deliver that 25-30% ratio, then I would consider Pro to be disappointing.
Jan-Mar sales will be far, far, far less than Nov/Dec, and thus I expect Pro volume to be higher contextually in those months to a higher ratio.
But they weren't - they made a faster PS4 (for the cost of one as well).Space_nut said:If you're making a new product go as much you can for it.
But they weren't - they made a faster PS4 (for the cost of one as well).
Is that news now? Tier 2 doesn't exist for Microsoft.Nov and Dec were close in the US... but outside of it PS4 has slayed all competition.