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[Rentahamster]

This, and they probably didnt vote during the elections at all. Just a bunch of losers looking to make noise.

Can we start a gofundme for these two?

I mentioned earlier in the thread, one of the articles mentions one, but I can't verify the authenticity, so I didn't link.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Oh wow. You serious with this? Starbucks wouldn't exist without its labor. It gives its labor the means to remain healthy for continued exploitation and you call this generous?

How have we fallen this far into late stage capitalism?

It is the extreme miniority of us businesses that voluntarily provide health insurance for part time workers. That's the context of stating it's generous. That's obviously something to question on a larger cultural scale but it doesn't mean they shouldn't deserve some praise for it.

 

[Condom]

It is the extreme miniority of us businesses that voluntarily provide health insurance for part time workers. That's the context of stating it's generous. That's obviously something to question on a larger cultural scale but it doesn't mean they shouldn't deserve some praise for it.

Stealing a loaf, sharing a slice.

I mean I get that the problem is systemic and that as a normal small business providing insurance to part-timers would be impossible (others don't have to do it you'll be beaten in price). In this case however we are talking about a corporation that has gigantic scale advantages over a small-medium business. Starbucks can afford to set up a whole tax evasion scheme in which results in illegitimate large profits. Hurting both tax payers and also small-businesses. With that in mind, giving insurance to their part-time staff isn't something to commend them for. They're still shitty overall.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

No, these are the facts. Their lives are improving. Are they perfect? Hell, no! But first you had a billion of people living of less then $1.90. Now you have 150 million. That is an improvement for 850 million people.

Again, what is your alternative?

Goldman Sachs estimates that almost half of Chinese labor makes $2000 a year. That's disgusting and an injustice. That doesn't even take into account forced rent payments to the company for 'housing' (it's a fucking cot) and debt to the company 'store'.


Collective ownership of factories is my alternative.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Goldman Sachs estimates that almost half of Chinese labor makes $2000 a year. That's disgusting and an injustice. That doesn't even take into account forced rent payments to the company for 'housing' (it's a fucking cot) and debt to the company 'store'.

Collective ownership of factories is my alternative.

OK, and now compare that data from Goldman Sachs to how people used to live before it. Because it was even worse. Nobody says the system is perfect, but it is the best we have at the moment and has lifted large amounts of people towards a better life.

Collective ownership didn't work in any country where it has been tried. Also, within capitalism you are free to set up a business in such a way if you want btw. Next solution please.

 

[T.O.P]

Resisting Trump will mean breaking a few windows. It's important to understand that thisis a contingency when the democratic process is perverted and failed us.

Where is GAF's resolve to resist Trump by all means?!

Yes, next time bring your car as a protest "sacrifice", then we'll talk

 

[Bl@de]

Collective ownership didn't work in any country where it has been tried. Also, within capitalism you are free to set up a business in such a way if you want btw. Next solution please.

Come on. Don't you know the standard communist answer? It just wasn't done right before! We will surely succeed. Just believe in it.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

If people in the past thought this you were still working in a factory for 14 hours a day, 7 days a week. Any workers rights you got were earned with the literal blood and broken bones of your predecessors, not because they went to their boss asking ''could you please be nicer to us'?'.

They live in a bubble, they'll never understand. A lost cause that's lucky enough that people exist who are ready to spill their own blood for the greater good while they comment from the sidelines.

Their predecessors would smack the shit out of them if they were alive to witness this.

 

[ClosingADoor]

They live in a bubble, they'll never understand. A lost cause that's lucky enough that people exist who are ready to spill their own blood for the greater good while they comment from the sidelines.

Anarchists committing arson during a protest can in no way be compared to the unions from back in the day that fought for their worker's rights. They are not spilling their blood, they are not fighting for a cause. They are opportunists who know they can get away with it at that moment.

 

[T.O.P]

It sure as hell is when the person is still inside the fucking car.

What the fuck? animals

Neogaf. The alt-.reality world where words are violence, but torching someones car isn't.

yuuup

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Anarchists committing arson during a protest can in no way be compared to the unions from back in the day that fought for their worker's rights. They are not spilling their blood, they are not fighting for a cause. They are opportunists who know they can get away with it at that moment.

I imagine anarchists existed then too and commited similar crimes? The media just has the means now to focus on the tiny groups and blow them out of proportion while ignoring the rest.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Come on. Don't you know the standard communist answer? It just wasn't done right before! We will surely succeed. Just believe in it.

Just need to grind a few more million lives down the drain, it'll work this time for sure!

 

[Coriolanus]

Collective ownership didn't work in any country where it has been tried.

Fwiw, a democratic government system necessarily brings with it collective ownership of the state. So....

 

[Kinyou]

I imagine anarchists existed then too and commited similar crimes? The media just has the means now to focus on the tiny groups and blow them out of proportion while ignoring the rest.

So what's wrong with condemning these arsonists then? Some people here try to act like this was done for a high and mighty cause

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

OK, and now compare that data from Goldman Sachs to how people used to live before it. Because it was even worse. Nobody says the system is perfect, but it is the best we have at the moment and has lifted large amounts of people towards a better life.

Do you think that at some point the average Chinese worker will enjoy the same life as the average American worker? The cold fact is that while you tell yourself that exploited workers make a few cents more than they did decades ago they will never experience the same level of 'prosperity' you have today.

Capitalism requires exploitation.

Collective ownership didn't work in any country where it has been tried. Also, within capitalism you are free to set up a business in such a way if you want btw. Next solution please.

It's hilarious that you call a system in which billions of people are destitute a 'solution'. There's nothing wrong with collective ownership of factories.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

So what's wrong with condemning these arsonists then? Some people here try to act like this was done for a high and mighty cause

Nothing.

But generalising that "violence and destroying property" is never ever good is a naive and dangerous way of thinking when history proves us time and time again that peaceful protest during dark times are not the absolute answer.

 

[Gutek]

lol for how incredibly left leaning gaf is and they're nearly unanimous on this only shows how insanely wrong you are.

To be fair, GAF is Hillary left. They are totally down with centrist neo-liberalism.

While women are going to be stripped of rights, racists appointed to the highest offices, Muslims put on lists, and DREAMERS deported, GAF will get angry at protesters and people punching Nazis in the face.

 

[M0nochromatic]

“I still get that sinking feeling,” said Muhammad Ashraf of Nationwide Chauffeured Services.

His driver, Luis Villarroel, was attacked while sitting in his limousine Friday.

He had just dropped of someone attending inauguration when a group of protestors smashed through his windows.

He said his driver just managed to get out in time before most of the damage but his hand was cut pretty badly. The limo was then torched.

“Why do they play with people’s lives," wondered Ashraf. “One of those rocks could have hit him in the head.”

The reason they play with people's lives is because they have no regard for life. Expressing their anger and disdain is of a higher priority then not harming innocent bystanders. They view those killed and harmed as acceptable losses in the war on capitalism, in the very same way the capitalists justify all the victims of their system.

The ends justify the means.

(Also it's very funny to me, reading this debate and criticism of capitalism, violence, and property destruction on a privately owned, gated, moderated, and monetized video game message board.)

 

[pirateluigi]

I imagine anarchists existed then too and commited similar crimes? The media just has the means now to focus on the tiny groups and blow them out of proportion while ignoring the rest.

But isn't that the whole point? The media will blow it out of proportion and everyone knows it. A movement won't succeed without the hearts of the people and this kind of destruction will be used negatively against the very cause you hope to champion. You end up losing more supporters than you gain.

 

[Lostconfused]

Seriously, what are the chances that an expensive car wouldn't be owned by a white man? You can't blame the protesters, c'mon now...

I agree, if you are not white then you shouldn't be able to afford luxuries like cars, or food, or housing. Or anything really, pretty much nobody but white people should have any money at all tbh.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Do you think that at some point the average Chinese worker will enjoy the same life as the average American worker? The cold fact is that while you tell yourself that exploited workers make a few cents more than they did decades ago they will never experience the same level of 'prosperity' you have today.

Capitalism requires exploitation.

The Western world has an obscene amount of wealth compared to other parts of the world, no disagreement there. But that is not the discussion.

That Chinese worker will have a better life then his father and grandfather today because of the influence of capitalism.

Your argument is "but it can be better", and I don't disagree with that. However, you don't give any means to reach that better situation. I'm saying capitalism is the best functional system we have at the moment to lift people out of poverty. Then you couple that with social programs and certain government regulations so you don't get into the extreme exploitation, and those parts are lacking in some countries.

It's hilarious that you call a system in which billions of people are destitute a 'solution'. There's nothing wrong with collective ownership of factories.

There is nothing wrong with it. But the problem is, it doesn't work.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

What in the fuck?

If this was a white person's car it's okay, but since it's a muslim's it's bad? Am I reading this correctly? There are people who think this way? Pretty sure there's a term for that kind of thinking.

Nah, fuck that. Protest all you want but you don't get to fuck up someone's property because they're "X".

 

[Bl@de]

Do you think that at some point the average Chinese worker will enjoy the same life as the average American worker? The cold fact is that while you tell yourself that exploited workers make a few cents more than they did decades ago they will never experience the same level of 'prosperity' you have today.

Of course the chinese worker doesn't have the same life. It's a complete different country with a different history and economic system.

In reality the rich get richer and the poor get richer. But please continue your case for communist practices. They sure helped to better the life of a lot of people in Soviet Russia and other countries.

On Inequality and poverty: https://mises.org/blog/inequality-doesnt-create-poverty

 

[Kill Your Masters]

But isn't that the whole point? The media will blow it out of proportion and everyone knows it. A movement won't succeed without the hearts of the people and this kind of destruction will be used negatively against the very cause you hope to champion. You end up losing more supporters than you gain.

There is no efficient way to stop them. Even if you do, the other side can easily infiltrate any legit protest and start destroying everything in their name. If the media wants to help, then they shouldn't give so much meaning to a tiny fraction of the protesters.

 

[Dragonite]

To be fair, GAF is Hillary left. They are totally down with centrist neo-liberalism.

While women are going to be stripped of rights, racists appointed to the highest offices, Muslims put on lists, and DREAMERS deported, GAF will get angry at protesters and people punching Nazis in the face.

Legit, gaf is mostly right wing, with a few centrists. There are very few leftists here. And just fucking lol at liberals who think they're left. Relative to conservatives they are left but ideologically they are right wing.

 

[Dragonite]

The Western world has an obscene amount of wealth compared to other parts of the world, no disagreement there. But that is not the discussion.

That Chinese worker will have a better life then his father and grandfather today because of the influence of capitalism.

Your argument is "but it can be better", and I don't disagree with that. However, you don't give any means to reach that better situation. I'm saying capitalism is the best functional system we have at the moment to lift people out of poverty. Then you couple that with social programs and certain government regulations so you don't get into the extreme exploitation, and those parts are lacking in some countries.


There is nothing wrong with it. But the problem is, it doesn't work.

The living standards of slaves in the US increased over time. Is that an argument for slavery? If not, it's not an argument for capitalism

 

[ClosingADoor]

The living standards of slaves in the US increased over time. Is that an argument for slavery? If not, it's not an argument for capitalism

This is one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard. With that kind of logic you can pretty much dismiss anything.

Also, it yet again provides no alternative.

 

[ahoyhoy]

If you're gonna go this route be bold, jump the White House fence and tip over Marine 1 or something. Burning some random dudes car just lets everyone see what cowards you are.

Naw modern anarchists are generally cowards and go after tangential targets that aren't likely to fight back.

Old school anarchists were actually willing to target the true enemies of their movement.

 

[E92 M3]

I hope they are all rotting in jail for a couple years at least. Good citizens shouldn't have to deal with this shit.

 

[StayDead]

I feel so bad for this dude. Must be incredibly annoying to have to deal with this and hopefully people will help him pay for it...

But this is way too ironic to not be kind of funny. People are assholes.

Seriously, what are the chances that an expensive car wouldn't be owned by a white man? You can't blame the protesters, c'mon now...

Quite high? What kind of a comment is this. Just because there's a lot of inequality, doesn't mean non-white people can't be or are not rich. This is someones property, would they like it if someone did something like that to their car?

I'm sick of wealth equality as well, but I don't go around torching peoples cars that are richer than me, because if someone did that to me, I'd be pissed.

 

[Sheiter]

North Korea would be able to under the impeachable Juche ideology if the West stopped meddling and undermining it.


He was being exploited by being forced to work to survive.

Did you really answer the question of naming a happy prosperous non-capitalist nation and went for North Korea as your response? If I ask you to name a good example of changing a country through property destruction are you going to tell me the kristallnacht?

 

[Lostconfused]

Did you really answer the question of naming a happy prosperous non-capitalist nation and went for North Korea as your response? If I ask you to name a good example of changing a country through property destruction are you going to tell me the kristallnacht?

 

[Anjelus_]

This is not meant to discredit the idea of protests in general, but to encourage reflection to find a way to protest that does not harm the very people one is trying to help via protesting.

If only there were some way to protest without burning things and throwing rocks!

Really though, protest = fine.

Riot = bad & counterproductive (it will be used against you)

Also, it's ironic it's an immigrant's limo given the subject of the protest, but that's it --- irony! It's plain bad to destroy, uh, anyone's limo as part of your protest. MLK Jr. didn't burn white or black people's limos. It's a good policy.

 

[Maintenance]

Protest all you want, block all the roads you want. When you start breaking shit and setting stuff on fire to "stick it to the man", I have zero pity if the police starts throwing stuff at you.

 

[Fuchsdh]

When has there ever been property damage in a violent protest that was actually constructive? Leaving aside the usual arguments about whether it delegitimizes your protest, seems like the only people really hurt by them are average people or more often the very people protesting themselves (torching the only CVS serving a poor neighborhood in Baltimore, the destruction of DC and a lot of urban cores in 1960s race riots.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution

Setting aside the chances for success, rioting has taken down governments before.

We haven't had any riots with such a political aim or widespread nature in recent memory. Depending on how reductive you get you can call the American Revolution a riot, but it doesn't actually tell you much. A better analogue is whether the Boston Tea Party was actually effective at doing anything besides making lives for average people worse.

 

[Maintenance]

You don't need to break shit to protest and get things done.

 

[ahoyhoy]

You don't need to break shit to protest and get things done.

But people won't know they're for real until they start smashing the windows of random cars or throwing bricks through random shop windows or throwing molotovs into crowds of people but then run away when the police show up and leave the real protesters to stand their ground and likely face the consequences of anarchist stupidity.

 

[Trojita]

Damn, it was actually run by a small business owner that now can't feed his family.

Which is proof that he was a victim being exploited who is now liberated from that exploitation.

Is this a joke post?

Reminds me of the PETA people that would rather kill an innocent dog or cat savagely than to see them be part of a family.

 

[SlimySnake]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

This is literally the stupidest fucking thing i have ever heard. This. Is. Wrong. Just say that and move on. Stop trying to justify it.

 

[RMI]

seeing that stupid-assed anarchist A on the car should be enough to tell you that this is not representative or the whole crowd. There will always be opportunistic assholes in protests who use a protest as cover to destroy and/or steal property.

Protest organizers and participants should do more to encourage self-policing in situations like this, otherwise you're going to wind up with the actual fucking police and they are not going to treat you well.

 

[cheezcake]

I feel so bad for this dude. Must be incredibly annoying to have to deal with this and hopefully people will help him pay for it...

But this is way too ironic to not be kind of funny. People are assholes.

Seriously, what are the chances that an expensive car wouldn't be owned by a white man? You can't blame the protesters, c'mon now...

So you're saying it would've been okay if a white guy owned it?

 

[DudeWithNoName]

Never destroy property. If you want to burn a car burn your own car.

Exactly. Fuck violent protesters.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

LOL @ the limo owner's race controversy.

The anarchists are annoying as hell and cowardly.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

This is literally the stupidest fucking thing i have ever heard. This. Is. Wrong. Just say that and move on. Stop trying to justify it.

It really is. These morons that light limos up think the rich literally own them in every instance. Instead it's a guy trying to make a living and operating a business.

How does fucking him over hurt Trump?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Do you think that at some point the average Chinese worker will enjoy the same life as the average American worker? The cold fact is that while you tell yourself that exploited workers make a few cents more than they did decades ago they will never experience the same level of 'prosperity' you have today.

Capitalism requires exploitation.

Because the Chinese were absolutely better off when they gave collectivism a go.

 

[Shmuppers]

This isn't admissible behavior

 

[Dragonite]

This is one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard. With that kind of logic you can pretty much dismiss anything.

Also, it yet again provides no alternative.

Socialism

 

[Ganzlinger]

Destroying property is a crime. If you want to protest, do it like a civilized person.

In my opinion, people should accept Trump, for now, as president and wait for his government acts, so you can have a better motivation and reason to protest or not against those measures. A general protest against Trump won't get anywhere.

 

[Trojita]

Destroying property is a crime. If you want to protest, do it like a civilized person.

I mean, they can't even aim right.

When you point out that the limo is owned by a small business owner, al most killed a person, and it's a fucking limo of all things they say "Da image though!"

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

What a bunch of shithead protestors. You can voice your opinion without destroying people's property and livelihood.