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[zeemumu]

If the scalper has no other means of income for whatever reason is that still "greed"?

Probably not but you're still potentially depriving someone of something so you can make money off of it. If it's something limited like concert tickets and you buy them all and then place them out of someone's price range, that sucks.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

I hate scalping with all my soul, and hate the bullshit noise of overpriced second hand goods on Amazon and EBay.
Been shopping for second hand tech goods lately, and I'm just relying on local second hand listings.

 

[Peagles]

It adds 0 value and effort to the economy.

Just like speculators, you are a leech.

On this point... Do scalpers/resellers pay income tax on their profits?

 

[Raitosaito]

On this point... Do scalpers/resellers pay income tax on their profits?

Almost everyone I know who does this pay income tax on profits.

I hate scalping with all my soul, and hate the bullshit noise of overpriced second hand goods on Amazon and EBay.
Been shopping for second hand tech goods lately, and I'm just relying on local second hand listings.

I buy secondhand electronics on eBay daily, and it's usually the same as my local Clist or apps like OfferUp personally.

 

[Straight Edge]

Selfishness is inherently bad, scalping is solely a selfish act, so scalping is inherently bad.

All capitalism is inherently selfish though. Owning personal property is selfish.

 

[DOWN]

I wouldn't say they bought it "just to make it harder for people"; they bought it because they could make money off it. If they didn't make money off it, then it wouldn't happen. If you're willing to pay the price, and the item is something you want, then you both gain from the exchange. If you didn't gain, then the exchange wouldn't happen.

That's for people who could afford the scalp price. If I was able to make an $80 MSRP limited edition in my budget and was on the web page when stock went up but it sold out, then scalpers got tons of them onto eBay and it's going for 2-3x the price and I don't have that much money... Well that means scalpers for the most part pushed me out

 

[Shadynasty]

Scalping is shit. It's also around because some people are willing to pay extra. There's obviously a market for it, it screws the average consumer over.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

To go with the first point

No, I understand, but this just keeps looping back to the "if they wanted me to stop they'd stop me, so obviously this is just tacit permission to keep doing what I'm doing" line of justification.

You're also not answering the question you previously admitted you knew was coming and were prepared for: If you're into putting all this time and energy into scalping, if you've researched the market well enough to be able to cite the examples you're citing, why don't you just become an actual retailer instead of a leech?

What's the reasoning? You're not providing it. You're kinda half-ass justifying it with the "If they didn't want me to do it they'd be more like Nike so they must not mind that I'm doing it" but not taking the full step towards addressing why becoming a legitimate retailer isn't an attractive option for you.

 

[border]

Are you selling an item that is currently in short supply but will be produced in greater quantities later? Like Amiibo, PS4, NES Mini, Hamilton tickets, etc? That is fine as far as I am concerned. Everybody that wants this thing will eventually get one, and it's perfectly acceptable for some people to pay more if they want it sooner.

Are you scalping something that is super limited edition or a once-in-a-lifetime experience? Like tickets to a band's farewell/reunion tour or 20th Anniversary Playstation 4? That is pretty scummy. Let the real fans get that stuff and stop profiteering on it.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

All capitalism is inherently selfish though. Owning personal property is selfish.

This is true. There is a certain level of selfishness that is inherent in living in society. But gouging people for your own financial gain for that personal property is undoubtedly more selfish than simply owning something.

 

[Raitosaito]

No, I understand, but this just keeps looping back to the "if they wanted me to stop they'd stop me, so obviously this is just tacit permission to keep doing what I'm doing" line of justification.

You're also not answering the question you previously admitted you knew was coming and were prepared for: If you're into putting all this time and energy into scalping, if you've researched the market well enough to be able to cite the examples you're citing, why don't you just become an actual retailer instead of a leech?

What's the reasoning? You're not providing it. You're kinda half-ass justifying it with the "If they didn't want me to do it they'd be more like Nike so they must not mind that I'm doing it" but not taking the full step towards addressing why becoming a legitimate retailer isn't an attractive option for you.

Sorry, forgot to add to the last point, and I thought I did (just woke up). Yes, I agree with your assertion that taking advantage of the market or even exploiting it is probably part of the fun, and personally knowing people who does this it's true.

And as I've said people do make actual retail stores out of this and are operating it with manufacturers blessing in some markets.

Shoe consignment or resell stores a lot of times have collaborations with big brand names. Girl clothing consignment stores sometimes also do the same thing. Retailers exist that do this on a much bigger scale than me.

 

[Taco_Human]

It's just capitalism. I don't buy scalped prices. I don't make an effort to sell things, but if it's marked up I'm not gonna sell it cheaper than what I could get it for.

 

[FrigidEh]

My friends usually spent the first two weeks of classes flipping textbooks off Facebook groups and could make 2-3k between them. Does that count?

 

[Daingurse]

I don't really have a problem with scalpers. I respect the hustle.

 

[mdubs]

So y'all are just expecting people to look the other way when they get an order in for a PS4 20th Anniversary and then see that they can triple their money if they resell instead of keeping it?

 

[SporeCrawler]

no its what modern capitalism is based on. buy for cheap and sell for a profit

 

[Taco_Human]

So y'all are just expecting people to look the other way when they get an order in for a PS4 20th Anniversary and then see that they can triple their money if they resell instead of keeping it?

Yup. It's a limited edition thing, I expect to it to sell for unusual prices. That's the way it's always worked as far as I remember.

 

[Shadynasty]

I don't really have a problem with scalpers. I respect the hustle.

You can respect the hustle, but at the same time no one wants to be hustled.

 

[LyleLanley]

So y'all are just expecting people to look the other way when they get an order in for a PS4 20th Anniversary and then see that they can triple their money if they resell instead of keeping it?

Regardless of expectations it's a scummy thing to do. The scalper hasn't done anything for the consumer but raise the price significantly.

 

[mdubs]

Regardless of expectations it's a scummy thing to do. The scalper hasn't done anything for the consumer but raise the price significantly.

Nah, there aren't moral obligations attached to buying something limited. It's a commodity like anything else, blame the manufacturer for not meeting demand

 

[FromAtoX]

I'm fine with it, as long as they're not selling medicine or books or something that people really need. Is up to the buyer to find the best value for their money.

 

[QuantumSquid]

I've often found that the market for scalped goods (at least for video games) is purely driven by some combination of hype, consumer impatience, and artificial scarcity or supplier incompetence. I don't feel bad for taking advantage of any of those things.

this is how I feel

do you REALLY need those amiibo?

 

[Daingurse]

You can respect the hustle, but at the same time no one wants to be hustled.

No one is forcing people to buy scalped goods. I honestly don't care if people can't get what they want. As long as people aren't scalping essential items like food, medecine, or water, then I really have no issue with the practice. There have been many items that I was not able to get because of scalpers jacking up the price on ebay or amazon. I just accept it and move on with my life. I really can't knock people trying to get their hustle on.

 

[Straight Edge]

The indignant people calling scalpers scum don't care that the same system allows them to purchase low cost consumer electronics and other goods by fucking over 3rd world factory assemblers and retail slaves making minimum wage.

So boo hoo if you were inconvenienced trying to find an NES classic.

 

[99Luffy]

Should be a law where concert/event tickets can only be resold at max 120% of the purchase price.

As for retail items.. Meh blame the retailers for not creating purchase limits.

 

[Derwind]

The indignant people calling scalpers scum don't care that the same system allows them to purchase low cost consumer electronics and other goods by fucking over 3rd world factory assemblers and retail slaves making minimum wage.

As a consumer I don't have control over how my products are manufactured or where the materials were gathered from to make the item, if something unethical in the process is presented to me I will do my best to address the issue by boycotting the product.

Scalpers have control over their unethical practice.

One is objectively worse than the other.

 

[Straight Edge]

As a consumer I don't have control over how my products are manufactured or where the materials were gathered from to make the item, if something unethical in the process is presented to me I will do my best to address the issue by boycotting the product.

Scalpers have control over their unethical practice.

One is objectively worse than the other.

For luxury goods you absolutely can control whether you will support these practices by purchasing them. LOL that a guy scalping is objectivly worse than the misery involved in a place like Foxconn.

 

[LyleLanley]

The indignant people calling scalpers scum don't care that the same system allows them to purchase low cost consumer electronics and other goods by fucking over 3rd world factory assemblers and retail slaves making minimum wage.

So boo hoo if you were inconvenienced trying to find an NES classic.

I'm sure people care about that but what can they do about it? Beyond that, are we supposed to be ok with scalpers because factory conditions may not be up to a reasonable standard? These are both bad things but they're unrelated.

 

[Derwind]

For luxury goods you absolutely can control whether you will support these practices by purchasing them. LOL that a guy scalping is objectivly worse than the misery involved in a place like Foxconn.

Dude my post isn't even that long.

I said what consumers don't have control over is how the product is made and what it's made from. The only control they have is to boycott the product when they find any unethical practice involved in the process of making whatever product they intended to buy.

Scalpers are directly involved in an unethical practice willfully.

So yes they are objectively worse.

 

[devilhawk]

While I'm not a fan of scalping, I don't really have a problem with it.

I do, however, have a problem with two things that sometimes come with it. First, the scalping of tickets/items that were never sold the first time. Like how Ticketmaster takes tickets directly to their secondary market to up the price without having sold them the first time. Secondly, any company that scalps but does not deal with returns and instead forces the original company to do so. So don't do those two things.

 

[Straight Edge]

Scalpers are directly involved in an unethical practice willfully.

So yes they are objectively worse.

Consumers are directly involved in an unethical practice willfully. Every adult knows their Nikes weren't made by well paid laborers. The only reason you can walk into walmart and buy a $3 garbage can is because several people were exploited along the way to make it possible.

 

[Derwind]

Consumers are directly involved in an unethical practice willfully. Every adult knows their Nikes weren't made by well paid laborers.

And not everyone continues purchasing Nikes when they learn about the companies practices, some sure but not all. Every scalper by design is exploiting the purchasing power or lack thereof of other consumers and at times create scarcity where there wasn't before.

And even if you want to go down that path, as a consumer I'm indirectly contributing to whatever misfortune occurs and by design so do scalpers do too ultimately as a means to profit by *drumroll* their own unethical practice.

That same manufacturing/retail slave as you put is also a consumer, which by design are also victimized from those same marked up online purchases.

Objectively scalping is worse.

The only reason you can walk into walmart and buy a $3 garbage can is because several people were exploited along the way to make it possible.

Efficiencies in production that cut down the costs of goods don't always have to be gained through exploiting people. Exploiting resources & technologies among other things can also be a reason for manufacturing costs to drop.

 

[Ridli]

I took an econ class long ago, and the prof absolutely loved scalpers. He would argue that they help determine the true value of the product (at the margin of course). Obviously, this doesn't provide comfort when you are the consumer that is priced out of the thing you want, but the concept is interesting.

Frankly, as long as scalpers are not involved in products that are a true human necessity (water, food, shelter, medicine and such), then they should be eligible to run their game. It's an inconvenience when something you want is scarce, but as long as it isn't something you need, it doesn't make the scalper morally wrong.

I won't stand in the way of companies putting in policy to limit the activity though. It's well within the right of the seller to try and combat the practice, if they want to.

 

[Alebrije]

The Scalpers should be a new faction on next Elders Scrolls game.

- Hello extranger, it seems you traveled from far away to get some Crimson Nirnroots
-Yep, not only had to get rid of a big Troll near here but also lost most of my money on the journey.
-Well, finally you are here but I am afraid The Scalpers bought all the Nirnroots and are reselling them at 200% the cost outside of the town.

 

[ant_]

I think it's bad because it negatively effects me. Morally I can't see anything wrong with it. It just bums me out when I miss tickets because of scalpers.

 

[Mohasus]

I don't think so. That's how capitalism works.

 

[border]

Every scalper by design is exploiting the purchasing power or lack thereof of other consumers and at times create scarcity where there wasn't before.

I don't think this is true at all. Scalpers are just a scapegoat in most/all situations -- someone to blame in a scenario where scarcity would exist anyway.

Can you really think of a time when scalpers bought up any significant percentage of a product's supply? They exploit scarcity, but they almost certainly do not cause it. Somebody is mad that they cannot find an NES Mini, so they invent the fiction that all the units must be in the hands of those jerks on eBay.....but at the end of the day the truth is that they were just undershipped and snapped up by average consumers.

 

[Sectorseven]

Do scalpers undercut each other? Like, if there's two selling the mini NES, will one charge less than the other?

 

[Derwind]

I don't think this is true at all. Scalpers are just a scapegoat in most/all situations -- someone to blame in a scenario where scarcity would exist anyway.

Can you really think of a time when scalpers bought up any significant percentage of a product's supply? They exploit scarcity, but they almost certainly do not cause it.

Buying multiple copies of something(which you would need to do) doesn't contributing to scarcity?

I'm not placing the blame on solely one person but even if something was already limited by design, buying multiple copies of something only helps to generate further scarcity(creating greater conditions for reselling) rather than reduce it which creates the conditions for demand that one can manipulate.

Now I don't think it's always a bad thing, I just think its an inherent part of scalping. You don't buy just one copy at a time to sell, there would be little profit in that.

 

[Raitosaito]

Do scalpers undercut each other? Like, if there's two selling the mini NES, will one charge less than the other?

All the time. Undercutting happens constantly.

I don't think this is true at all. Scalpers are just a scapegoat in most/all situations -- someone to blame in a scenario where scarcity would exist anyway.

Can you really think of a time when scalpers bought up any significant percentage of a product's supply? They exploit scarcity, but they almost certainly do not cause it. Somebody is mad that they cannot find an NES Mini, so they invent the fiction that all the units must be in the hands of those jerks on eBay.....but at the end of the day the truth is that they were just undershipped and snapped up by average consumers.

I would say in the case of the NES this is true base on personal anecdotes. Most people listing them I saw were new eBay users, or people I know who were willing to wait for supply.

 

[Patrick S.]

It used to be that if I wanted to buy a cool collector's edition game but couldn't afford it day one, I could just go to any store and buy it two or three weeks later. Today? Scalpers buy two dozen units each, and the only way to get them a few weeks later is buying from those mofos and paying double the price or more. I fucking hate that so much.

 

[demosthenes]

I guess I'll just get this out of the way. I resell full time as a job around 2 months ago, and am on track to making the same if not more than my job, but with a lot more free time and flexibility. I was making a pretty comfortable living as well.

Now what I didn't really pay attention to before is people really vehemently being against scalpers/resellers/retail arbitragers. But a lot of people actually own multi million dollar companies just reselling on Amazon. My own mother has been an Amazon reseller for almost a year, and she only told me last month. She just shops and list on Amazon.

Honestly if people are paying for it, my personal opinion is "why not?". But I have a bias view and I just want to see where everybody is coming from.

Also it's late and idk wtf I'm doing.

For stuff like you're talking about, I don't care.

I really only care for concerts, shows, and events.

edit: Yea seems I don't care much of what's going on in this thread. But if someone is doing a show and there are limited tickets and some scalpers buy up a huge portion of them, I have to pay 2x-3x?

 

[captive]

It's basic economics 101 so it's hard to really call it an inherently bad thing. But it's certainly anti-consumer and companies should do their absolute best to fight it, for the good of the people.

For things like concert tickets it's definitely not economics 101.

I can't tell you how many times I've been online at the exact moment concert tickets go on sale only for the vast majority of the seats to be sold already. But then do a quick Google search and there's 8 different websites offering seats for that event at a higher price. It's bullshit.


For items bought on craiglist/ebay or whatever I have no problem unless you knowingly rip someone off. Like you find someone with a rare game but they don't know it's rare so you offer them like 5 bucks or whatever. Sure you haven't done anything legally wrong but you're definitely an asshole.

 

[border]

Buying multiple copies of something(which you would need to do) doesn't contributing to scarcity?

It contributes to scarcity, it does not "create scarcity where there wasn't before." If eBay shut down all scalper auctions, scarcity would still exist.

I would say in the case of the NES this is true base on personal anecdotes. Most people listing them I saw were new eBay users, or people I know who were willing to wait for supply.

Nintendo sold like half a million NES Minis in December. How many eBay auctions for them were there? You could probably scrape that data yourself, but I'm guessing it probably isn't even 10,000.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Scalping is a form of sociopathy but it's legal and doesn't really harm anyone so there's not really any reason to do anything about it.

 

[Ovid]

If the scale is big enough, then it's awful.

Adjacent thought, but this is an amazing book on wide-spread scalping of stocks on Wall Street, affectionately renamed "high speed trading." Definitely worth a read.

Good book but got a repetitive towards the end.

 

[Derwind]

It contributes to scarcity, it does not "create scarcity where there wasn't before." If eBay shut down all scalper auctions, scarcity would still exist.

Unless a product is manufactured in numbers that mirror the population growth of the entire world, scarcity will always exist, is that correct?

The moment a person starts hoarding products he has created scarcity at some level and thus contributed to whatever scarcity that was present before they hoarded. If you don't help create scarcity, your profit margins won't grow, even if it's just buying 3 consoles at your local gamestop, at a micro scale you created scarcity.

Again, I should note, I don't object to all cases of reselling/scalping.

 

[Raitosaito]

Nintendo sold like half a million NES Minis in December. How many eBay auctions for them were there? You could probably scrape that data yourself, but I'm guessing it probably isn't even 10,000.

Yeah, I was actually agreeing with you. I was extracting the resell being so small, and having a real negligent effect because it was mostly people I know who don't usually resell, are the ones reselling NES while the rest bought it for personal use.

This sounds like the perfect time to say I am selling my NES Classic

LMAO.

I'm dead

 

[BronsonLee]

This sounds like the perfect time to say I am selling my NES Classic

 

[Zen Aku]

It's okay when you do it to Nazis.

Spoiler

/s