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What is that "certain something" that makes many of us enjoy Japanese games so much?
- Thread starter Imp the Dimp
- Start date
Alternately, Japanese games are way more likely to have designs catering to women and even gay men. Look at League of Legends. All the women are sexualized and yet not a single male character was designed to have sex appeal.
While something like FF14 or Granblue Fantasy has a lot of male characters with sex appeal. Its not a zero sum game.
You dont see this kind of official marketting for popular western games:
Danis Saur
Member
They know how to make games fun, creative and charming. Even with serious matured games, they throw in silly and charming shit (like what Hideo Kojima does). They show their love in a big way. Their games are more creative, in my opinion.
Compared to western games, which can be cold and tame in creativity.
Compared to western games, which can be cold and tame in creativity.
For me it's primarily art style. Japanese games usually have a wide variety of art styles, from anime to realistic or something in between, which I find more appealing. On the other hand, Western games almost always aim for the most realistic, gritty style they can achieve, which honestly feels a little stale after so long. There are of course some exceptions, but they seem very rare in comparison. You'd have to look to indie gaming to find other art styles.
Comparing some bigger releases from Japan and the West recently shows this perfecly, with Japanese games having a good mix of anime and realistic art styles (Tales of Berseria, Gravity Rush, Nioh, Resident Evil), whereas Western games are all aiming for realism (Horizon, For Honor, Battlefield, Watch Dogs).
I think I also prefer the movement in Japanese games, as it feels more fluid. Western games seem to like to emulate realistic movement (Witcher 3, GTA), which feels really clunky to me. I don't care if turning around instantly doesn't look realistic- it feels better than having to make a small semi-circle just to turn around.
Comparing some bigger releases from Japan and the West recently shows this perfecly, with Japanese games having a good mix of anime and realistic art styles (Tales of Berseria, Gravity Rush, Nioh, Resident Evil), whereas Western games are all aiming for realism (Horizon, For Honor, Battlefield, Watch Dogs).
I think I also prefer the movement in Japanese games, as it feels more fluid. Western games seem to like to emulate realistic movement (Witcher 3, GTA), which feels really clunky to me. I don't care if turning around instantly doesn't look realistic- it feels better than having to make a small semi-circle just to turn around.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Do you think part of that has to do with how much smaller a presence women have in Western games in general?
Western games with significant female characters are often just as sexualized. Since it was a late edit, I'll reiterate: look at all of Blizzard's games, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, League of Legends, DOTA2, etc.
TenCentCoast
Banned
My problem with that argument is that we are seeing more and more Western games with female leads that very much aren't sexualized. Hell, even in Mass Effect it was a problem where EVERYONE was sexualized, and by ME3 Femshep was a huge focus. Horizon is coming up, and my favorite game of all time, Life is Strange, has a female LGBT lead character. Of course, I may have blinders on- I'm much more like to play a game with a female lead in the first place, or at least one that lets your create your character. I'll consider the idea that I'm just jaded by sexist gamers and anime fans.
No, those are different things. An attractive character doesn't necessarily imply sexual pandering. Think Zafina from Tekken vs. Mika from Street Fighter.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Sure, but my point is that if someone wants to wank it to video game characters, they don't need to look Eastward.
TenCentCoast
Banned
I feel like there's a reason you don't hear masturbation jokes about a game like Mortal Kombat, you hear them about Dead or Alive. Both have heavily sexualized characters, and I chose fighting games just to have a good enough comparison. One of these is very clearly a fighting game first and foremost and the other is a vehicle for boobs first and foremost.
StrategyFan
Member
that "certain something" is probably selection bias
you'll get some different tendencies somewhere else
you'll get some different tendencies somewhere else
Samanosuke Akechi
Member
They're more like a true game rather then the constant reality simulators western devs go for. Western games are good sure but lots just got for realism or a bunch of shooting and japan games go more for lots of different styles. Both are good but I'll always prefer japans approach to game design way more than western made games.
HyperCroutons
Member
I love how Japanese games tend to focus more on boss battles and fun flashy action-combat. In recent console generations western developers seem not to focus much attention on boss battles or interesting ones at least. Although it looks like Horizon Zero Dawn might have some cool bosses from what I seen.
Also I love how a lot of Japanese games have some quirky shit in them even when their trying to tell serious stories like in the Metal Gear Solid or Yakuza games. Lightens up the mood a bit.
Also I love how a lot of Japanese games have some quirky shit in them even when their trying to tell serious stories like in the Metal Gear Solid or Yakuza games. Lightens up the mood a bit.
TenCentCoast
Banned
Today in things I wish I said, but don't have the ovaries to.
I don't know. Gamergate pretty much destroyed my view on this "culture".
This definitely plays a massive role in the success of some Japanese video games in western markets.
I have been thinking: maybe it's not something Japanese developers have, but rather what isn't there. Think of dynamic vs canned dialogue: western AAA prefers the former, but it comes off as awkward because of what it fails at doing.
I haven't seen anything remotely resembling an interesting boss battle in Horizon. It looks like western jank.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I would say that MK is more a vehicle for ultra violence, which tends to overshadow the ridiculously sexualized designs and movesets.
And DOA is one example, but you also see that sexualization and mockery in more legit fighting games like Street Fighter and Blazblue.
In terms of Western fighting games, you also have Skull Girls, which is another game that is bursting at the seams with pandering.
I think the reason we tend to gloss over Western sexualization is because it is more familiar and normal to us, as opposed to Japanese games which are the Other.
TenCentCoast
Banned
Western jank, and you just quoted a post citing Metal Gear Solid and Yakuza.
Note: Metal Gear Solid V is the least janky game in that franchise, and possibly one of the least "janky" games ever. The rest, though? Pure jank.
I'm not going to say you're wrong, that's an entirely valid viewpoint. You've given me a lot to think about!
People played Super Mario Galaxy for the T&A?
Nintendo is a huge Japanese publisher.
I was not addressing that part of the post at all.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Its the Jank and Gameyness we love so much. I pretty much stopped buying western titles other than gears cod and madden. Everything else can take the L. Got no time for movies
Fried Food
Banned
Soul
TenCentCoast
Banned
I disagree entirely. Games trying to be movies might have been a valid argument in 2011, but definitely not anymore.
MKX is a return to form, though. Looking at current fighters, I'd say Killer Instinct and MKX are pretty much free of sexual pandering compared to Street Fighter, KOF, ArcSys stuff, etc. (DOA is DOA and will always be DOA, I just don't understand why Street Fighter needed to be DOA too). At least KOF has a ton of diverse female characters and not only Mai-types, and I also think Tekken is good at not being ridiculous with the pandering.
Iva Demilcol
Member
Japanese games prefer to be games instead of trying hard to be like movies or TV shows.
I think that's basically why I like them more.
I think that's basically why I like them more.
Lord of Ostia
Member
I think you are right, but I do think many Japanese games focus more on refined level design and game mechanics over other aspects, and many people prefer that approach. There are plenty of western games that do this too, but the western AAA space is fairly homogenous and safe compared to what comes out of Japan.
Red Blaster
Member
western games listed in gaf's goty top 20: uncharted 4, doom, overwatch, inside, ratchet & clank, hitman, the witness, dishonored 2, deus ex: mankind divided, xcom2, battlefield 1, firewatch, titanfall 2
hmm looks like wall-to-wall overly realistic movie-like games with cold, lifeless artstyles. thank god for japanese devs
hmm looks like wall-to-wall overly realistic movie-like games with cold, lifeless artstyles. thank god for japanese devs
TenCentCoast
Banned
I genuinely can't tell if this is sarcasm.
Lord of Ostia
Member
It's definitely sarcasm...like obviously so
Aside from my previous post, I do admit this is the case with probably more Japanese games than western ones for me. That said, examples of this for western games for me would be like Tales from the Borderlands and South Park: Stick of Truth.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
I cant agree when some of the biggest franchises are like Metal Gear and Final Fantasy (and other jrpg). Even pokemon has more cutscenes than ever now.
Doom was easily the most pure gamey game of the big budget games that year, and if you're talking about indie games its even more likely theyre that way inclined.
dreamlongdead
Member
It's simply because of all the great game series and franchises that spawned from Japan.
Japanese games are very versatile. Their developers can successfully pull off quirky, colorful, and realistic titles with great results.
As a result, Japanese games are much more diverse than Western games.
Japanese games are very versatile. Their developers can successfully pull off quirky, colorful, and realistic titles with great results.
As a result, Japanese games are much more diverse than Western games.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
There is a huge difference between something like MGS and Uncharted. MGS has long, skippable cutscenes but gives you full control during gameplay. Uncharted forces you to waddle around slowly and trigger movie like scenes with automated actions with minimal input.
It is becoming more common in Japanese games though. The MGSV prologue is atrocious and many people complained about the car pushing moment in FF15.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
really? which games from Japan in the last few years from the respective genres are competing with games like Ori (metroidvania), Doom and Overwatch (fps), retro platformers like shovel knight, New takes on the jrpg formula like Undertale, or anything similar to Uncharted or Tomb raider for 3rd person platforming/shooting. Or a really unique sport game like Rocket League?
even the big Japanese MMOs like FF14 have like attractive model humans and realistic textures compared to WoW which has been around forever now but has a far more colourful and unique aesthetic.
Actually Splatoon was really fresh if you can compare that to the 3rd person games i mentioned so ill give it that.
Maybe ive just missed a lot of games, and im not trying to be selective, but almost every genre has been more diverse outside of Japan from recent memory.
I aint even touching the Witcher and Bloodborne comparisons because thats destined to turn into a joke
Skipping cutscenes in MGS is like skipping most of the games. Granted I havent got much farther than the prologue in mgsv.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
I like how more outrageous Japanese games are, most Western AAA games tend to skew towards realism. I also like how most Japanese games aren't focused on shooting.
M0nochromatic
Member
Well that covers so many games! Ace Combat, Bayonetta, Castlevania, Dead Rising, Devil May Cry, F-Zero, Final Fantasy, God Hand, Legend of Zelda, Mother, Megaman, Metal Gear, Mario, Metroid, Nioh, Nier, Ninja Gaiden, Okami, Pokemon, Souls Series, Shin Megami Tensei, Touhou, Yakuza and so on.
It's hard to find a through line here, but if I had to try, it would be fantastic music, and overall unique styles.
That said, it's a broad and sweeping question that can't really be nailed down in any satisfying, objective, or logical way.
It's hard to find a through line here, but if I had to try, it would be fantastic music, and overall unique styles.
That said, it's a broad and sweeping question that can't really be nailed down in any satisfying, objective, or logical way.
Iva Demilcol
Member
I don't have a problem with cutscenes actually, but when you make me walk and talk or if you just press a single button to perform like three actions (and a big etcetera) then I usually dismiss a game as trying too hard to be like other media.
I agree that MGS is on of the worst offenders when it comes to trying too hard to be a movie and I despise the series for it. But a direct comparison of how important is the moment to moment gameplay in Japanese games versus AAA western games, makes me prefer Japanese games.
MGS is notorious for its lengthy cutscenes/codecs. But I dont think thats what people mean by cinematic these days. Flashy cutscenes are oldschool, the trend seems to be about creating blockbuster-like setpieces you can kind of play through...Anyway, MGSV is more 'gamey' than ever, tighter controls and way less cutscenes.
Yeah, I think that's true for a segment of the gaming population. There's a rather drcent sized chunk of the Japanese game development scene that really goes in hard with this stuff, and caters towards certain types of people. Then you get into the 1000 year old dragon waifus for a whole new level of pandering.
I think it's unfair though to limit discussion to just that over served segment. It ignores some legitimately brilliant work coming out of Japan, like the Souls series, Splatoon, Nioh, and Gravity Rush 2 for example. It also ignores some very gameplay focused reasons some enjoy Japanese games such as the level of care going into well designed boss fights, and depth of gameplay systems. We also tend to forget the work Nintendo is doing, like they're seperate from the Japanese Games Industry.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
And I might return to it, but right now im drained after playing FFXV and too many games like bloodborne and NioH where its all just so damned serious with disjointed and dark stories. Even Pokemon took itself far too seriously.
Zelda might be the cure this week....hopefully
