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[-Mutsukki-]

It's not an opinion I agree with but it sure is interesting to consider that there are people who find Hyrule Warriors significantly better than Breath of the Wild. Seems crazy to me but everyone has the right to their opinion.

To be honestly fair, I can see people enjoying the arcade-y mindless fun combat that Hyrule Warriors provides more than the slower paced, more invested and time consuming piece that is BoTW. And that's not a bad thing honestly, different tastes for different people.

Although I do not believe Jim is one of these people.

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

...what? You're asking why a game is good when it features a mechanic that you don't like but others may find enjoyable? I mean, I think it's a pretty good thing for weapon balance and diversity.

 

[Occam]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

 

[pizzaparty]

Except that the gun doesn't break in shooters and you can find ammo for it usually dropped by the enemies which would be the equivalent of repairing it in your analogy, but ammo doesn't cost anything in most shooters however it does costs precious resources(as per Sterling) in BotW.

Weapons are plentiful and dropped by enemies.The few weapons which can be repaired are not more powerful than the weapons that the game throws at you.

 

[kpaadet]

It flashes red.

Still not good enough, I wanna know if it's completely new of half used, not just when it's about to break.

 

[holygeesus]

you should watch the video.

and no, he doesn't monetise his videos.

Erm I did watch the video. What the fuck does my post have to do with monetising videos?

 

[blankempathy]

If a reviewer doesn't like a system and thinks the game is worse for being in, that's not going to change by saying "Oh, well it's slightly less shit later, no worries!"



Honestly, in a good review ecosystem, this is how it should be. You choose to follow/listen to reviews of people you know your opinions closely follow, and you tune out those they don't. Movie fans(that bother with reviews) have been doing that for a long time, and were doing it long before RT came out. If anything, it just kind of shows that things like metacritic and RT aren't all that healthy when it comes to having a differing opinion I guess.

Because it comes off as him showing a very one sided arguement! Look at all this footage of weapons breaking! The durability system is garbage! It isn't completely honest. The user experience around the game play does change. Weapons do break less. Weapons begin to also have modifiers that increase durability further. A system can start off far more punishing annoying and become much more manageable ad a game goes on to the point where it isn't even an issue.

 

[SavoyPrime]

Jim spoke the truth on everything! Glad someone isn't afraid to speak the truth.

 

[marrec]

Limiting the freedom to repair your weapon in a game about freedom and exploration...

how about that

me: I like the freedom to explore that is engendered by the physics engine and weapons durability in botw

you: but you are not literally free to do anything HMM INTERESTING

Jim spoke the truth on everything! Glad someone isn't afraid to speak the truth.

those poor reviewers being forced to give a game a good review

 

[Hatty]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

Because some people don't mind it or actually like it?
10/10 doesn't mean perfect anyway

Jim spoke the truth on everything! Glad someone isn't afraid to speak the truth.

Who do you accuse of speaking lies?

 

[elrechazado]

But he doesn't hate the game. He said the game was good. Both in the review and the video, multiple times. He liked the game. You don't give the things you hate a 7/10.

You do when the Zelda fan score scale is 9.5 to 10, rather than 0 - 10.

Remember everyone, 8.8gate happened.

 

[SpiceMelange]

Jim spoke the truth on everything! Glad someone isn't afraid to speak the truth.

I legit can't tell if this is sarcasm.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Still not good enough, I wanna know if it's completely new of half used, not just when it's about to break.

You can tell if it's unused from the sparkles.

 

[marrec]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

Cause it makes it better than all the open world games that came before it? It builds on existing systems and solves their problems in novel ways?

 

[NotLiquid]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

Because for a lot of people, seemingly most people who did play it based on the overall reception, the game is designed well enough around it where it doesn't become an issue for them. To me personally I think it's a really fucking smart system that does a lot to enable much of the game's forward momentum and open world freedom.

 

[Gunblade47]

I actually agree with him on this. In the few games that I've played where weapon and armor durability is present it's usually the first thing I try to mod out. I love witcher 3 but I just couldn't stand the fact that my gear always broke in the middle of a long quest line dungeon.

As for the Zelda thing, I mean I kinda get being mad if someone doesn't like a game as much as I do but its fanbase is really starting to go too far. It reminds me of the pre-launch No Man's Sky fanbase and that was horrible.

I dont have a Nintendo console but I will say that it looks like a lot of fun and my SO is having a blast but people need to relax. People have different tastes and I honestly wish the gaming community will stop acting like anything below 85-90% review score was a personal insult.

You enjoy the game and that's all that should matter in the end. 97% is still freaking high in an era where other publishers are pushing graphics and radio towers. Credit where credit is due.

 

[Trey]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

It's not an excellent point because weapon durability systems are not objectively bad like Jim would have you to believe. It's fine not to like them, but that does not preclude other people from enjoying the design.

Zelda got 10/10s because many people were either fine with the system, or thought it was nicely tuned and well integrated into the overall gameplay structure BotW offers. You're allowed to disagree, but the reason the game is lauded is no great mystery.

 

[aBarreras]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

how can we see when we dont have eyes?

 

[Dsyndrome]

There's a lot of people really aren't willing to accept any criticism of this game, and I'm not just basing that on this thread

As long as I don't see anyone defending the shit house motion shrines I'm happy

Fuck those things, they aren't explained at all, and it took five minutes of twisting my pro controller any way I could think of to finally get the stupid thing to do what I wanted it to.

As for the topic, it wouldn't be so bad if they weapons didn't break so damn fast, all the time. I shouldn't be losing a guardian sword in two-ish fights when these guardians supposedly have had them for a century.

 

[Plywood]

Weapons are plentiful and dropped by enemies.The few weapons which can be repaired are not more powerful than the weapons that the game throws at you.

I just don't think weapons as ammo is a good analogy.

 

[kpaadet]

You can tell if it's unused from the sparkles.

Okay that's better, I'd rather it just had a durability meter though.

 

[Plum]

There's a lot of people really aren't willing to accept any criticism of this game, and I'm not just basing that on this thread

As long as I don't see anyone defending the shit house motion shrines I'm happy

I can defend the motion-control shrines!

Spoiler

There aren't any more of them.

 

[marrec]

I just don't think weapons as ammo is a good analogy.

It works only when it's analogous to Halo specifically, which was designed in much the same way as Zelda:

Limit specific weapon availability in order to increase encounter difficulty and engender creativity.

 

[guek]

I just don't think weapons as ammo is a good analogy.

It's not a perfect analogy but it's also not baseless either.

 

[gamerMan]

This comment in his review is the definition of trolling. Why should he be talking about the onslaught of 10/10 reviews in his review? Other people enjoyed it and he didn't. There is no need to bring it up in your review unless you are trolling.

He shouldn't be reacting to scores other people gave it. He should review it on its own merit and not because it is getting a 10/10. Just because reviewers gave it a 10/10 doesn't mean you will like it. At the very least, it is obvious he hasn't reviewed it objectively and it's more of a reaction to other reviewers. If he is unable to separate the review scores from his own review, that shows that his beef with the company probably influenced his score as he is unable to review things separated from the context that they live in.

 

[Drkirby]

As for the topic, it wouldn't be so bad if they weapons didn't break so damn fast, all the time. I shouldn't be losing a guardian sword in two-ish fights when these guardians supposedly have had them for a century.

While it doesn't make you feel better, the description says Guardian weapons are super fragile.

 

[Plywood]

It works only when it's analogous to Halo specifically, which was designed in much the same way as Zelda:

Limit specific weapon availability in order to increase encounter difficulty and engender creativity.

I suppose I could understand that, but I could also see why someone would find it stifling.

 

[MTC100]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMDG51cf5w

That's how.

 

[thefil]

One word that comes up over and over again is "reward". A major component of the durability criticisms is that your "rewards" are worthless because they are ephemeral.

This is so baffling to me. Obviously some reward and advancement is useful and feels good in a game, but if you need to be rewarded for every thing you can do, why are you even doing it? If you don't want to fight an enemy camp /unless/ there is a +1er sword in the chest, and you don't want to complete a puzzle shrine /unless/ you get an upgrade... isn't there some other game that would be that much better?

If you're playing a game and never come across an activity and thought "I just feel like doing this" instead of "I want the next upgrade", then you can't be having that much fun, right? Or maybe the reward cycle is the game itself and you're just looking for something unobjectionable to fill the time between rewards?

If you don't want to do the combat without a reward, it makes sense to me to spend 90% of your criticism on the combat and 10% on "and there's not even a reward to make up for it".

 

[marrec]

I suppose I could understand that, but I could also see why someone would find it stifling.

It's unconventional for sure, which is why it's controversial... but I think it does make for a better game in the end regardless of my personal love for the system.

 

[dcx4610]

I agree with Jim. I've gotten used to it but I still don't think it's fun or a good mechanic. Constantly hoarding good weapons in case you need them and switching because they break just doesn't feel right. I find myself avoiding battles all together because I don't want to waste weapons.

Is running away from every enemy you see the sign of a good battle system? Zelda is an amazing game to me but I think it would have been better without weapon breaking. I would have the same game but make weapon drops rare so fighting enemies and clearing areas would be worth it trying to get upgrades.

 

[Ziocyte]

It has never influenced his reviews.

To think he gave the game the score to stoke controversy is simply not true.

These two things are literally impossible to know. No person lives in a vacuum, and literally every interaction and experience in one's life impacts their perception of the everything around them. To say that a reviewer is somehow completely removed from external forces is naive.

To the second part, you are assigning motivation to someone that I'm guessing you've never met. It is entirely possible that in a vacuum his scores would have been the exact same. It is also very possible that he saw how the game was being received by the majority of reviewers and community and wanted to make his own mark. I'm having trouble understanding people who think that either of those two scenarios is impossible.

 

[MTC100]

This comment in his review is the definition of trolling. Why should he be talking about the onslaught of 10/10 reviews in his review? Other people enjoyed it and he didn't. There is no need to bring it up in your review unless you are trolling.

He shouldn't be reacting to scores other people gave it. He should review it on its own merit and not because Nintendo are being dicks. Just because reviewers gave it a 10/10 doesn't mean you will like it. At the very least, it should that he hasn't reviewed it objectively and it's more of a reaction to other reviewers. That shows that his beef with the company probably influenced his score as he is unable to review things separated from the context that they live in.

I also found that part funny when reading his conclusion, I mean it's clear he knew what the other outlets gave the game and by saying so blatantly he is indeed telling everyone that he's just trolling or rather trying to destroy the metascore by a few points. Like saying "I gave this a 7 to bring those 10/10s down, even though I enjoyed it enough for it to be a 9"

 

[Drencrom]

This whole debacle have been a very entertaining read, thanks to everyone involved!

 

[marrec]

I agree with Jim. I've gotten used to it but I still don't think it's fun or a good mechanic. Constantly hoarding good weapons in case you need them and switching because they break just doesn't feel right. I find myself avoiding battles all together because I don't want to waste weapons.

Is running away from every enemy you see the sign of a good battle system? Zelda is an amazing game to me but I think it would have been better without weapon breaking. I would have the same game but make weapon drops rare so fighting enemies and clearing areas would be worth it trying to get upgrades.

It seems to have different effects on different players.

I'm engaging in combat WAY MORE in BotW than I have in any other open world game previously, because the combat is actually fun for me compared to stuff like Skyrim or Witcher 3. So yes, it's a sign of a good battle system.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Honestly, I used to really love Jim Sterling but every single video is negative, bitchy, and reactionary now. It's either Digital Homicide is suing him, YouTube is fucking him over, Konami Sucks, DLC sucks, Nintendo sucks, or people are mad at him over a review (and of course, he's always right and everyone who disagrees with him is a fucking knob). It's just the same cycle of dramatic negative bullshit -- he seems to revel in it.

Does he ever do a video about how much joy something gives him? How much he loves a game? I can only stand so much verbal diarrhea before I check out. Good luck Jim.

Much as I love Jim, I can't really disagree with this. His videos are simply not enjoyable to watch anymore. I'm fine with savaging those who need to be savaged from time to time, but it's really just that as of late. Which is a shame as he's one of the few truly charismatic and witty faces of gaming.

 

[jviggy43]

Outside of a few points in his review about being forced to do shrines, his criticisms are all legitimate. This is coming from someone who wasn't bothered by these mechanics and thinks the game is pretty phenomenal, maybe even top 5 goat status. There is room to improve with this model and thats exciting to think about.

 

[boneyjangles]

Jim is the yellow press of games.

Perfect

 

[JerkShep]

Jim spoke the truth on everything! Glad someone isn't afraid to speak the truth.

Man this review really openened the floodgates for people frustrated by all those 10s. I'm not sure that it's the "Zelda rabid fanbase" the real issue here honestly.

 

[Lashley]

Pretty pathetic to ddos a site over a review

 

[Holiday]

I also found that part funny when reading his conclusion, I mean it's clear he knew what the other outlets gave the game and by saying so blatantly he is indeed telling everyone that he's just trolling or rather trying to destroy the metascore by a few points. Like saying "I gave this a 7 to bring those 10/10s down, even though I enjoyed it enough for it to be a 9"

Acknowledging other reviews = "trying to destroy the metascore"

Conspiracy revealed!

 

[Nepenthe]

Except that the gun doesn't break in shooters and you can find ammo for it usually dropped by the enemies which would be the equivalent of repairing it in your analogy, but ammo doesn't cost anything in most shooters while it however does cost precious resources(as per Sterling) in BotW.

Link himself is the gun in my analogy, and a very versatile gun at that. Link will never become permanently unusable. He will run out of ammo however, because his ammo is the weapons themselves. To regain ammo, you can pick it off the ground from enemies (as you noted), get it from chests, or buy it from towns and stables.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Man this review really openened the floodgates for people frustrated by all those 10s. I'm not sure that it's the "Zelda rabid fanbase" the real issue here honestly.

People are always like this for any popular game. I saw people here in NeoGaf saying FFXV was a failure that did not meet expectations before it even released. Honestly people talk shit about fanboys (rightfully so), but this kind of bullshit gets waaay too much free pass.

 

[King_Moc]

He has an excellent point.

How is Zelda Breath of the Wild a 10/10 game if it features a fragility system like it does?

Could it be that most people liked it?

 

[Trey]

It seems to have different effects on different players.

I'm engaging in combat WAY MORE in BotW than I have in any other open world game previously, because the combat is actually fun for me compared to stuff like Skyrim or Witcher 3. So yes, it's a sign of a good battle system.

Agreed. I hate weapon durability in every game I've ever played, and thought I would dislike it in Zelda. But the fact that weapons aren't drops, they're "what you see it what you get," makes the the feedback loop crystal clear. So I can weigh the pros and cons of my resources and make decisions on the fly. I don't think "oh man, my weapon is about to break" when I get the durability prompt. I think "okay, whose face am I throwing this at?"

Combined with there being no XP for defeated enemies, I don't ever feel like I have to fight. It's purely driven by my own motives and needs at the time in an organic way. So you don't necessarily have to kill enemies to get a good weapon, or to maintain the ones you have in your possession.

It's well thought out with respect to the various systems Breath of the Wild employs.

 

[Arion]

Having an "honest opinion" doesn't make that opinion any less exempt from criticism. My argument is that he's deliberately stoking the flames via reactionary videos such as this Jimquisition (which, as I've said before, was clearly planned before yesterday) and the tweets that no-one has yet to refute. By saying that this is "his job" you must agree with me that he benefits from it. When freelance journalism is your job you pick and choose what you cover; he didn't have to cover the DDoS in more than just a tweet yet he chose to do so; there is no social or consumer benefit to us hearing his "opinion" about the backlash like there is a review, the only benefit is Jim's.

I disagree on all accounts.

The Jimquisition is a video series based around calling out controversies. It would be a disservice to his audience to not call out how some fanatics behave towards criticisms.

No, I don't agree that just because it's his job he is benefiting from this. BotW is a very popular game and there is every potential of him losing patrons as there is gaining some.

And yes, there is a social benefit to calling out the backlash. It's is important to call out these fanatics for attacking reviewers. Because it's not an isolated case. It happened with Polygon with Dragon's Crown, Gamespot with GTAV, Gertmann with TP. Shitty behavior like this needs to be called out.

 

[Kthulhu]

This comment in his review is the definition of trolling. Why should he be talking about the onslaught of 10/10 reviews in his review? Other people enjoyed it and he didn't. There is no need to bring it up in your review unless you are trolling. There is almost a sense of real jealously that people like the game.

He shouldn't be reacting to scores other people gave it. He should review it on its own merit and not because Nintendo are being dicks. Just because reviewers gave it a 10/10 doesn't mean you will like it. At the very least, it is obvious he hasn't reviewed it objectively and it's more of a reaction to other reviewers. That shows that his beef with the company probably influenced his score as he is unable to review things separated from the context that they live in.

He is reviewing it on its own merits. He is simply stating he wanted it to be a 10/10, but the issues he highlights in his review make him not want to give it that. You're reading too much into it.

 

[MTC100]

Honestly, I used to really love Jim Sterling but every single video is negative, bitchy, and reactionary now. It's either Digital Homicide is suing him, YouTube is fucking him over, Konami Sucks, DLC sucks, Nintendo sucks, or people are mad at him over a review (and of course, he's always right and everyone who disagrees with him is a fucking knob). It's just the same cycle of dramatic negative bullshit -- he seems to revel in it.

Does he ever do a video about how much joy something gives him? How much he loves a game? I can only stand so much verbal diarrhea before I check out. Good luck Jim.

"Fuck Konami News" was something that made me cringe a bit, after neraly every Jimquisition. Sure they made a lot of wrong business decisions the last couple years with firing Kojima being the worst one, yet they still don't deserve the hate he has for them. He also blatantly hates on Nintendo even telling his audience it's okay to pirate their games. One Company I've not heard him complain about so far is Sony, also Microsoft seems to get away with everything(well okay, they are not really in the spotlight with anything lately).

Over all you are right, it's really hard to find a video of him enjoying something, he's really full of negativity towards so many things, one has to wonder if he really leads a happy life and if so, how he can handle the persona he created for himself...

 

[Lindsay]

Dead Rising is survival action game with more RPG elements than Zelda. Frank West is probably more powerful than Link ever becomes comparing both game's end game content so I'm not sure where the "you're supposed to be underpowered" comes form.

Ohhh thats my bad. I never played the game so I was basing it on what I'd read about time limits, difficulty saving npcs, and stuff. Knew about the goofy weapon elements just not how good they apparently are!

And as the devs have said numerous times, Breath of the Wild is going back to basics and rebooting/reinventing the franchise. I'm not sure what the historical implications of the franchise have to do with what is essentially a reboot. Everything is different about this Zelda from the dungeons, the puzzle solving and the item progression. What you can and can't do in this game is vastly different than its predecessors and it should be judged as its own entity.

I fell outta like with Zelda awhiles ago so I haven't been like keeping up or anything on this new one. If thats what they said then yeah its fair enough for 'em to have gone wild and introduced things like weapon breaking. The changes/new stuff sure don't entice me to give it a try but not everythings for everyone!

 

[Geg]

People are always like this for any popular game. I saw people here in NeoGaf saying FFXV was a failure that did not meet expectations before it even released. Honestly people talk shit about fanboys (rightfully so), but this kind of bullshit gets waaay too much free pass.

Some people here desperately wanted FFXV to be a failure and were mad when it received mostly 8s and 9s, it's really bizarre.

 

[Kthulhu]

"Fuck Konami News" was something that made me cringe a bit, after neraly every Jimquisition. Sure they made a lot of wrong business decisions the last couple years with firing Kojima being the worst one, yet they still don't deserve the hate he has for them. He also blatantly hates on Nintendo even telling his audience it's okay to pirate their games. One Company I've not heard him complain about so far is Sony, also Microsoft seems to get away with everything(well okay, they are not really in the spotlight with anything lately).

Over all you are right, it's really hard to find a video of him enjoying something, he's really full of negativity towards so many things, one has to wonder if he really leads a happy life and if so, how he can handle the persona he created for himself...

I feel like you're missing the point of the Jimquisition as a show.