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[Haganeren]

Okay so why is it good? Demise is a non-character Akuma ripoff who appears at the very end to announce that he will reincarnate for all eternity because he's angry.

Well, there is some kind of "good" deity with Hylia, it makes sense to have a "bad" deity with Demise. I actually liked Calamity Ganon in BOTW to be more of a... "natural disaster" than a "conscient" being. It changes, it's something different. Oh i would love a new really cool villain like Yuga but for this one time, it works for me.

What is enriching about that, as opposed to the power of The Legend of Zelda being a myth retold again and again for new generations, with variations? It's just fan-fiction lore wank. "Ganon reappears again because Demise sez so", box checked, we now have a Logical Reason for Ganon to keep reappearing because apparently we needed that, despite the fact that this reason is not inherently interesting or enriching at all. I don't give a fuck about Demise. Skyward Sword is all tell and no show. If you're gonna build up a villain, BUILD UP A VILLAIN.

Too bad you didn't liked Skyward Sword, wasn't my case.
That being said you said something interesting about the fact "Legend of Zelda should have been a myth retord again and again for new generations, with varation". I actually find that even dumber and the result is Twilight Princess with those "big" every protagonist here without murch purpose... Having a very cool Zelda and Ganondorf design wise but.. Nothing else somehow. Maybe i could tell that this game is all show and no tell ? Ah ah.

Well, i hate that, i prefer having them reincarne that "very evil deity" in whatever they seem fit for the next episode. It make sense for the narrative even if it downplay something you loved and they are still free to do anything they want. Works for me.
And anyway, contrary to popular belief, nearly every main Zelda game was made as a follow up/prequel to another episode. From A Link To the Past to Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker. Handlet games are the real exception here. Oh, of course, i don't think they really thought of a big chronology like today at the time... But it still never was about "a myth being retold" even if a lot of people would have preferred that.

Zelda being a mortal incarnation of Hylia is maybe even dumber. We had a reason for Link, Zelda and Ganon to be important, and that's because they're inheritors of the Triforce. Okay so now Ganon is Demise, Zelda is Hylia, but Link is just a schmuck with courage, shouldn't he then also be some kind of God to be worthy of the Triforce, since Ganon and Zelda both got their Totally Awesome Lore-Filled Backstories? And if not, why not?

Maybe that deity is the player ? I mean without him, that guy always lose somehow.
Oh well, not really important anyway. I don't think reincarnation is less dumb than "inheritor of the triforce". You just like the later better because it was here before.

I'm really glad BOTW completely resisted the temptation to insert more meta-lore, if nothing else.

Actually, it's the only thing we agree.
For exemple, I actually loved how they managed to tell that "Fi" exists and even talk to Zelda (given her "researcher" motivation they actually go well together) but never show any actual dialog from Fi in the game which would have been totally lame and inelegant in my opinion.

Everything was kinda subtle and it's good for guys who loved Skyward Sword like me or guys who hated it like you.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It's 100% not worth it. Horrible stats and you can't upgrade it. I wish I hadn't gotten it.

Yeah it'll just get replaced by Shiekah Stealth Gear anyway with Tier 3 Stealth and increased Night movement speed. Higher AC too.

Only thing you'll get a kick out of is every friendly NPC getting scared of you when you approach.

 

[JoeInky]

That being said you said something interesting about the fact "Legend of Zelda should have been a myth retord again and again for new generations, with varation". I actually find that even dumber and the result is Twilight Princess with those "big" every protagonist here without murch purpose... Having a very cool Zelda and Ganondorf design wise but.. Nothing else somehow. Maybe i could tell that this game is all show and no tell ? Ah ah.

Unless I'm misunderstanding here, that's not what TP is at all? It's explicitly a sequel to OoT like WW and not at all the dumb "it's just a legend being retold" thing.

 

[APZonerunner]

Well, there is some kind of "good" deity with Hylia, it makes sense to have a "bad" deity with Demise. I actually liked Calamity Ganon in BOTW to be more of a... "natural disaster" than a "conscient" being. It changes, it's something different. Oh i would love a new really cool villain like Yuga but for this one time, it works for me.

I really like the idea of Ganon over time becoming just a force of nature, the human part of that character warped and destroyed by the thousands of years and hundreds(?) of cycles of escaping and being foiled by versions of Link and Zelda. That's nice, and quite a contrast with say the Ganondorfs of WW and TP who were close enough to OOT to actually fully remember those events and recount them, still seething over the defeat.

The one thing that's missing, in a weird sense, is the Calamity Ganon could've used a conduit character - an Agahnim figure, basically. There's almost leaning towards this with the Yiga Clan, or the mysterious Sheikah lab underneath Hyrule Castle (which is where the Calamity is said to have emerged from), but it would've been nice if there was some sort of nefarious figure, an evil worshipper or whatever, who worked to break the seal and bring back the calamity, or at least aided or sped up its return. Somebody to act as an actual villainous foil, even if only in the flashbacks. A scheming court jester or chancellor that betrays the king, etc.

It's sort of like how in MM the ever-present antagonist is really the moon, but Skull Kid (or rather, the Mask) is responsible and thus is a foil you can actually speak to and stuff rather than just a terrifying raging beast.

 

[Astral Dog]

Ganon was fine before Ganondorf was introduced as anything else than a pig-demon.

Since ALTTP however they clearly established Ganon had a human form and was a thief. Ganondorf sometimes is too complex of a character to use like Bowser

Its similar to Dracula in Castlevania actually

SoTN showed a glimpse of redemption and motives never explored before,then later games add a magic stone and chaos = evil Dracula.
He returned to being evil without reason at later games

 

[MisterGrey3000]

The one thing that's missing, in a weird sense, is the Calamity Ganon could've used a conduit character - an Agahnim figure, basically. There's almost leaning towards this with the Yiga Clan, or the mysterious Sheikah lab underneath Hyrule Castle (which is where the Calamity is said to have emerged from), but it would've been nice if there was some sort of nefarious figure, an evil worshipper or whatever, who worked to break the seal and bring back the calamity, or at least aided or sped up its return. Somebody to act as an actual villainous foil, even if only in the flashbacks. A scheming court jester or chancellor that betrays the king, etc.

It's sort of like how in MM the ever-present antagonist is really the moon, but Skull Kid (or rather, the Mask) is responsible and thus is a foil you can actually speak to and stuff rather than just a terrifying raging beast.

Actually, I never thought about it, but yeah I feel like the game's narrative would have benefited from something like this.
It needed it's own Zant, Chancellor Cole, Byrne, or Ghirahim.
I guess Master Kohga could have been that if he wasn't a joke character (with an admittedly fun boss battle)

 

[Haganeren]

The one thing that's missing, in a weird sense, is the Calamity Ganon could've used a conduit character - an Agahnim figure, basically. There's almost leaning towards this with the Yiga Clan, or the mysterious Sheikah lab underneath Hyrule Castle (which is where the Calamity is said to have emerged from), but it would've been nice if there was some sort of nefarious figure, an evil worshipper or whatever, who worked to break the seal and bring back the calamity, or at least aided or sped up its return. Somebody to act as an actual villainous foil, even if only in the flashbacks. A scheming court jester or chancellor that betrays the king, etc.

I understand that a "human figure to hate" is something cool and to be honest, i wouldn't want two Zelda in a row not having one of those figure.... Bur after Ghirahim and that guy from TP, i think it's nice to just have an "environmental ennemy" for a Zelda which is focused on the "environment".

But yeah, doing that two times would be way too much for me.

.... And i didn't knew there was a secret lab in the Hyrule Castle, now i have to play again !

Unless I'm misunderstanding here, that's not what TP is at all? It's explicitly a sequel to OoT like WW and not at all the dumb "it's just a legend being retold" thing.

Oh yeah, it's totally a sequel, but for exemple, i didn't found Ganondorf very interesting in there, he is just "the same old Ganondorf". Zelda too wasn't that interesting, everything was about Midna anyway. It's like they used Ganondorf and Zelda "because they had too". I think the whole reincarnation deal is something which can grant them more liberties in the long term without doing a violent reboot

 

[Kyolux]

Since ALTTP however they clearly established Ganon had a human form and was a thief. Ganondorf sometimes is too complex of a character to use like Bowser

Its similar to Dracula in Castlevania actually

SoTN showed a glimpse of redemption and motives never explored before,then later games add a magic stone and chaos = evil Dracula.
He returned to being evil without reason at later games

That's kind of the point. Demise is only adding to the lore. Sure, it's not the best way they could have done it, but it doesn't really go against what Ganondorf and later on Ganon becomes. I do get wanting it to stick to being a mystery though. More often than not it's the better choice when it comes to writing a story.

 

[Astral Dog]

I really like the idea of Ganon over time becoming just a force of nature, the human part of that character warped and destroyed by the thousands of years and hundreds(?) of cycles of escaping and being foiled by versions of Link and Zelda. That's nice, and quite a contrast with say the Ganondorfs of WW and TP who were close enough to OOT to actually fully remember those events and recount them, still seething over the defeat.
.

Twilight Princess Ganondorf didn't remember shit he was literally a divine joke

Your latter point is fine but i think they wanted all the focus on Ganon and his effects over the land this time. Instead of a lackey stealing the spotlight like Zant and Girahim again

 

[MagiusNecros]

If there were lackey's or bonafide allies that mattered and contributed to the Calamity, they likely perished 100 years prior where everything "went wrong". After all the only true boss enemies here are amalgamations of Ganon himself before actually fighting Ganon.

Instead of the usual evil creatures that are prominent in Zelda games.

 

[JoeInky]

Twilight Princess Ganondorf didn't remember shit he was literally a divine joke

TP Ganondorf didn't remember shit because technically to him it never even happened haha, he probably remembered being sentenced to execution for something he hadn't even done yet just because a little kid said he was planning to do it though, I think that's why he's so pissy compared to the more reserved WW Ganondorf.

 

[Man God]

I actually really dug the story of the game told through the memories.

Zelda's struggle with her training versus her love of research. Spirituality versus Technology. Her figuring it all out when it's too late. Calamity Ganon's techno organic virus. Him taking over the machines.

 

[Astral Dog]

If there were lackey's or bonafide allies that mattered and contributed to the Calamity, they likely perished 100 years prior where everything "went wrong". After all the only true boss enemies here are amalgamations of Ganon himself before actually fighting Ganon.

Instead of the usual evil creatures that are prominent in Zelda games.

I would have liked the blights to have more personality and distinct designs,could have worked with a few lines of dialogue for example.maybe next time.

.

The only Ganon besides WW to remember would have been Calamity Ganon
The others never meet the hero,beat him (ALTTP) were other Ganondorf altogether or was just revived dumb like in the Oracles

 

[Chaos17]

I actually really dug the story of the game told through the memories.

Zelda's struggle with her training versus her love of research. Spirituality versus Technology. Her figuring it all out when it's too late. Calamity Ganon's techno organic virus. Him taking over the machines.

I also think this was well done it's just that people didn't felt it because they were not forced to do them so they felt the pacing of story was weak of so some do felt it lacked some impact. But I'm pretty sure if Nintendo forced those memories everytime you enter a new zone, it will have left a stronger impact on the generation who liked cinematic games where you have to follow the linearity of story at X moment.

Personally, I'm fine the way Nintendo did it because it's me who choose when I want and not because I've to avoid to advance X part of story.
I did in the order I wanted.

 

[APZonerunner]

I understand that a "human figure to hate" is something cool and to be honest, i wouldn't want two Zelda in a row not having one of those figure.... Bur after Ghirahim and that guy from TP, i think it's nice to just have an "environmental ennemy" for a Zelda which is focused on the "environment".

But yeah, doing that two times would be way too much for me.

.... And i didn't knew there was a secret lab in the Hyrule Castle, now i have to play again !

The lab is where the fight against Ganon takes place, you fall down into it from the sanctum.

RE the human figure to hate thing, it's a pretty common thread in Zelda. It's not just Ghirahim and Zant, but it goes back to Agahnim in LTTP who works for the royal family and secretly works to free Ganon, and even the Prince and his Wizard friend in the backstory of Zelda 2. It's a common thread for the series.

If there were lackey's or bonafide allies that mattered and contributed to the Calamity, they likely perished 100 years prior where everything "went wrong". After all the only true boss enemies here are amalgamations of Ganon himself before actually fighting Ganon.

Instead of the usual evil creatures that are prominent in Zelda games.

I don't think I'd have liked a villain throughout the game because as the poster above says it's an environmental game (though it does need more boss fights), but the flashback stuff would've benefited from an antagonist working against the champions just for the sake of variety; it would've been interesting if there was perhaps a 5th champion who was a traitor and actually worked to speed up Ganon's release, or something. Just something to give the game a bit of villainous color.

The way I would've done this would have been exactly this, actually: A 5th Champion who betrays the group in the flashbacks. They too would perish to Ganon and not be present throughout the main bulk of the game, but you'd fight some undead (and probably now repentant) version of them in Hyrule Castle before Ganon. It'd be a better explanation of how Ganon took over all the guardians etc too, if somebody working on them turned to him.

 

[Man God]

The lab is where the fight against Ganon takes place, you fall down into it from the sanctum.

RE the human figure to hate thing, it's a pretty common thread in Zelda. It's not just Ghirahim and Zant, but it goes back to Agahnim in LTTP who works for the royal family and secretly works to free Ganon, and even the Prince and his Wizard friend in the backstory of Zelda 2. It's a common thread for the series.



I don't think I'd have liked a villain throughout the game because as the poster above says it's an environmental game (though it does need more boss fights), but the flashback stuff would've benefited from an antagonist working against the champions just for the sake of variety; it would've been interesting if there was perhaps a 5th champion who was a traitor and actually worked to speed up Ganon's release, or something. Just something to give the game a bit of villainous color.

The way I would've done this would have been exactly this, actually: A 5th Champion who betrays the group in the flashbacks. They too would perish to Ganon and not be present throughout the main bulk of the game, but you'd fight some undead (and probably now repentant) version of them in Hyrule Castle before Ganon. It'd be a better explanation of how Ganon took over all the guardians etc too, if somebody working on them turned to him.

A third researcher who helped Ganon flip the switch on the guardians and maybe helped make his new body.

 

[Kyolux]

The way I would've done this would have been exactly this, actually: A 5th Champion who betrays the group in the flashbacks. They too would perish to Ganon and not be present throughout the main bulk of the game, but you'd fight some undead (and probably now repentant) version of them in Hyrule Castle before Ganon. It'd be a better explanation of how Ganon took over all the guardians etc too, if somebody working on them turned to him.

Given the setting, I'm not sure a champion would have betrayed them. How about someone that failed to be a champion or the knight protecting the princess and gets jealous? Or what the previous poster said.

 

[zeldablue]

I feel like the Yiga Clan replaced the Ghirahim/Zant character. They were really interesting henchmen. I wish there was more info on how those Sheikah defected. Actually I haven't done all the sidequests in Kakariko so maybe I should search around more...

Well, there is some kind of "good" deity with Hylia, it makes sense to have a "bad" deity with Demise. I actually liked Calamity Ganon in BOTW to be more of a... "natural disaster" than a "conscient" being. It changes, it's something different. Oh i would love a new really cool villain like Yuga but for this one time, it works for me.

One of the reasons I feel this is the Defeated Timeline is because of how Ganon acts. After ALttP, Twinrova attempts to resurrect Ganon in the Oracle games. They botch his resurrection big time and so Ganon(dorf) basically comes back without any humanity.

Poor Ganon is really messed up in that timeline. (Although he seems pretty smart and sentient in LoZ1 and AoL maybe?)

 

[Exodust]

Calamity Ganon was just lame.
Just a big ugly monster that exists solely to be a big ugly monster you fight at the end of the game.
No personality, no goals, no conflict, no sign of nuance..no nothing.
Honestly Ganon didn't even need to be in this game; nothing that makes him interesting or cool even exist in this game.
I feel like the plot and story would have been more interesting if it was about one of the guardians becoming self-aware and taking over Hyrule, leaving it in the desolate state we see it in.
Link and Zelda vs medieval HAL 9000 and his spider terminators would have been pretty dope.
And imagine for just a minute if medieval HAL 9000 and his spider terminators weren't particularly "evil", they just didn't want to fight the Hylians' battles anymore and rebelled to be free.
It would have mirrored a lot of Zelda's own feelings about her predetermined role in inheriting a kingdom and fighting evil.

Eh, I dunno. That kind of thing is up there with making things dark for no reason, having the hero lose because feels, steampunk lol, etc. as suggestions that only really exist because people found them interesting in other stories. I'd much rather have a badass evil than yet another morally grey compass obstacle in my fantasy games.

It's all in execution, of course. While I liked the first phase of the Calamity Ganon fight I did find most of his presence lacking(it's pretty good in a he already won, the world is shit, kind of way, but not so much in Ganon himself).

Though a series that long running had to explain something about Link and Zelda eventually,Ganondorf was fine as he was.

They didn't HAVE to. They just chose to.

 

[watershed]

Question: how long does it take for the master sword to recharge its energy?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Question: how long does it take for the master sword to recharge its energy?

10 minutes flat.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Well, someone got all 900 Korok seeds and the reward was...

Wow... What a literal load of shit.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Well, someone got all 900 Korok seeds and the reward was...

Wow... What a literal load of shit.

More importantly, you can dye the tunic!?

Need to get it so I can play as GOAT Purple Link. If only his super deep voice came with the color.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

More importantly, you can dye the tunic!?

Need to get it so I can play as GOAT Purple Link. If only his super deep voice came with the color.

Yeah, you can dye the breath of the wild tunic.

You have good tastes in colors, btw.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Well, someone got all 900 Korok seeds and the reward was...

Wow... What a literal load of shit.

This is actually the best possible reward.

 

[Caelus]

The tunic is a pretty cool reward, just wish it had a really high and unrealistic armor rating considering the effort.

"Hestu's Gift"... LOL, at that point the game is just making fun of you for even bothering to get all 900.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

Just wrapped up the story and post credits sequences.

First time I've really cared much about a 3D Zelda's story sans Wind Waker (I respect Majora's Mask from a distance cause time-based games are not my bag).

I actually enjoyed the way it was all delivered. Flashbacks you can find at your own pace, plus Link being a "man out of time" made so much of his NPC interactions fascinating to watch.

I also liked Calamity Ganon a bunch, and considering how far ahead this game feels in whatever timeline it might be, I dig the idea that Ganon at this point has no logic or reason beyond what appears to be pure malice. Everything that once made him a conscious being seems like it's completely loss, making it that much more dangerous.

I really hope the story DLC takes place after the game, cause I'd love to see this Link and Zelda go on fun archaeological adventures.

 

[zeldablue]

Well, someone got all 900 Korok seeds and the reward was...

Wow... What a literal load of shit.

Link looks like he's 12 here.

How old is Link...? 17 like Zelda?

 

[Tidalwave]

It's 100% not worth it. Horrible stats and you can't upgrade it. I wish I hadn't gotten it.

Not a big deal if you use fashion souls rules.

Spoiler

don't get hit

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Fuck. He's so fucked up. But you can clearly see it's Ganondorf and not some pig demon, which makes it worse. It kinda looks like he's halfway into a transformation into Dark Beast Ganon and fused with tech.

Yeah, I realized this when he transformed after this fight. This is his "human" form in this game.

The fact that you fight him in a Shiekah lab below Hyrule Castle makes me think that the Yiga didn't make themselves known until after Ganon returned. They probably masqueraded as regular Shiekah while secretly experimenting on Ganon's remains/spirit. It would also explain how he was able to bend the Shiekah tech to his will this time and not 10,000 years ago - because he had extra help.

Also on Ganon, another reason I think this might be Downfall is that he was resurrected in the Oracle games, but not completely, to the point where he wasn't fully aware or able to think properly. This is like an extension of that, taken to a bigger extreme. Maybe all those years of his followers messing with his spirit made it lose its ability to think and reason.

 

[Broken_Cartridge]

Link looks like he's 12 here.

How old is Link...? 17 like Zelda?

He's at least 100 years old

 

[Lights and Waves]

There is deity above the three goddess so "meh"
Zelda power is now Hylia power so "meh"
Ganondorf is only a vessel for Demise so "meh".

That's not true—the three goddessses created Hylia to protect the triforce. They're still the supreme beings.

 

[Crayolan]

Well, someone got all 900 Korok seeds and the reward was...

Wow... What a literal load of shit.

The real reward is realizing you just wasted days trying to collect 900 pointless collectibles and learning from that awful mistake.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Those motherfuckers made us buy our own house back

 

[13ruce]

Those motherfuckers made us buy our own house back

DAMN BOLSON!!!!!!!

 

[RagnarokX]

Those motherfuckers made us buy our own house back

I don't get how that dialogue is evidence of that. All it says is that one of the champions fought and fell at Hateno. It doesn't say he lived there. And we know Link fought and fell at Hateno.

Seems pretty obvious the house is his, though.

 

[Wanderer5]

After beating Ganon, I been exploring the Hyrule Castle, going to the very top of the place and then going down to some of the interior area where, OMG THE HYLIAN SHIELD! Is there a way I can get it again (maybe just need to beat that giant again?).

 

[Kinsei]

After beating Ganon, I been exploring the Hyrule Castle, going to the very top of the place and then going down to some of the interior area where, OMG THE HYLIAN SHIELD! Is there a way I can get it again (maybe just need to beat that giant again?).

You can buy replacements from Grante in Tarrey Town.

 

[Wanderer5]

You can buy replacements from Grante in Tarrey Town.

Is that something I stumble upon in the world or is it something I need to do via quests?

 

[Kinsei]

Is that something I stumble upon in the world or is it something I need to do via quests?

Tarrey Town? You need to buy the house in Hateno and then head out to Akkala lake to find Hudson. You then need to help Hudson build Tarrey Town.

 

[Wanderer5]

Tarrey Town? You need to buy the house in Hateno and then head out to Akkala lake to find Hudson. You then need to help Hudson build Tarrey Town.

Oh the quest with Hudson, okay will check that out.

 

[watershed]

I just beat the flying dungeon and boss. This was my favorite dungeon so far. The interaction mechanic was really inventive and love being able to beat bosses without using a specific item or strategy.

 

[Man God]

DAMN BOLSON!!!!!!!

To be fair, he comes down a lot from his first offer and does fix the place up for a decent price.

 

[watershed]

10 minutes flat.

Really? When I equip the master sword it still says it's low on energy even though I last used it 2 days ago. Should I be worried? It's also still flashing red in the quick equip menu.

 

[Kyolux]

Really? When I equip the master sword it still says it's low on energy even though I last used it 2 days ago. Should I be worried? It's also still flashing red in the quick equip menu.

It won't regen until you "break" it.

You might need to break it and wait for it to return. I've never left it almost broken so I'm not sure if it regens without breaking it.

It definitely won't restore itself until it runs out. It's like the champions powers. Won't regen either until you use them all up.

 

[Exuro]

Really? When I equip the master sword it still says it's low on energy even though I last used it 2 days ago. Should I be worried? It's also still flashing red in the quick equip menu.

You might need to break it and wait for it to return. I've never left it almost broken so I'm not sure if it regens without breaking it.

It definitely won't restore itself until it runs out. It's like the champions powers. Won't regen either until you use them all up.

Yeah this is something I find really annoying. Using one or two charges and then just wasting the third so it can start recharging again.

 

[watershed]

Oh I see. Ok, thanks for the info.

 

[Nosgotham]

So this is after twilight princess, yeah?

 

[Crimsonlink]

You can cheat the Master Sword recharge by going to Hyrule Castle and then getting out. At least I think how it worked.

Also, I'm really glad I didn't waste time on Korok seeds except to increase my inventory slots a bit and leave the rest to rot. Give me DLC soon Nintendo, hopefully with a increase in Ganon backstory and maybe some partnering up with Zelda.

 

[Astral Dog]

So this is after twilight princess, yeah?

No its thousands of years after Zelda the Adventure of Link