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Twilight Princess is definitively better than Wind Waker
- Thread starter Regiruler
- Start date
IMO Twilight Princess is the most forgettable Zelda game despite it being my first Wii game. It's not bad, just bland. I should try the HD remaster to see if the lack of wagglefest controls improve it. Skyward Sword overstayed its welcome by about 10 hours and the dark realm stuff was tedious af. Windwaker is in my top 3, but then again I lurve me some sailboats.
tkscz
Member
TWW is a strange way of spelling Majora's Mask.
Castef
Banned
Yep. Wind Waker is quite a mess after a very good start.
Absolutely disagree.
While I really love the dungeons and bosses in Twilight Princess, the padding between all that stuff is a snooze fest, the opening tutorial is way too long and Wolf Link was super boring. Twilight Princess is probably one of my least favourite 3D Zelda games. Wind Waker had a great opening, great art style, good dungeons, characters, the final boss was amazing and explore the entire sea was a lot more interesting than exploring an empty ass Hyrule in Twilight Princess.
While I really love the dungeons and bosses in Twilight Princess, the padding between all that stuff is a snooze fest, the opening tutorial is way too long and Wolf Link was super boring. Twilight Princess is probably one of my least favourite 3D Zelda games. Wind Waker had a great opening, great art style, good dungeons, characters, the final boss was amazing and explore the entire sea was a lot more interesting than exploring an empty ass Hyrule in Twilight Princess.
Feel free to elaborate on how you think there was any real meaningful sense of adventure in TP. The overworld was so fucking bland and there were no memorable points of interest that come to mind, especially in comparison to WW's Great Sea which was littered with all sorts of cool shit.
RichiRamjag
Member
I feel like I'm in "Who Framed Roger Roger Rabbit".
DrROBschiz
Member
TP has a really solid Mid game and End game but a Horrible Start
WW is like... the reverse with less content
WW is very easy on the eyes and has charm to spare. I will concede that
WW is like... the reverse with less content
WW is very easy on the eyes and has charm to spare. I will concede that
TP:
- Better overworld (sure, it's a little emptier than I would have liked but WW is even worse)
- Better dungeons
- Better bosses
- Better items
- Midna
WW:
- Far better graphical style
- Better start
- More original
- Tetra
Both:
- Great ending
So yeah, I liked TP better. But WW looks far better. It already did when it came out, and TP has been aging poorly.
The game WW could have been/wanted to be > any Zelda (with the potential exception of BotW, which in many respects is the game WW wanted to be). But the actual game is just too... sparse, for lack of a better word. In fact, I actually prefer SS (so feel free to disregard my opinion).
- Better overworld (sure, it's a little emptier than I would have liked but WW is even worse)
- Better dungeons
- Better bosses
- Better items
- Midna
WW:
- Far better graphical style
- Better start
- More original
- Tetra
Both:
- Great ending
So yeah, I liked TP better. But WW looks far better. It already did when it came out, and TP has been aging poorly.
The game WW could have been/wanted to be > any Zelda (with the potential exception of BotW, which in many respects is the game WW wanted to be). But the actual game is just too... sparse, for lack of a better word. In fact, I actually prefer SS (so feel free to disregard my opinion).
Nocturnowl
Member
Usually I'm pretty quick to throw Wind Waker under the bus in this case but I did find myself finishing both HD versions of WW and TP within the last two years and thinking "hang on, did I actually kinda prefer Wind Waker this time?"
Maybe it's just because I found the extra tinkering with WW benfitted it more than the extra tweaks for TP.
On the other hand TP's dungeon and puzzle design utterly craps on Wind Waker from astronomical heights, in that department it's not even a contest.
I think TP generally has more things bogging it down pacing wise throughout, Wind Waker doesn't really hit bad pacing for me until its later segments.
So about the endgames, Wind Waker's is pure trash, look I know the actual Dorf fight has a cool setting, neat pre fight plot stuff and the fight as easy as it is has punch but everything else before that? utter wank, possibly the strongest example of "we totally rushed this game" in Zelda's history. An incomplete boss rush preceded by single rooms of tepid puzzle design probably cut from their respective dungeons, a lost woods segment, A LOST WOODS SEGMENT! And some looooong staircases, hmm yes utterly compelling stuff.
TP's endgame is still lacking (challenge is disappointing as is Hyrule Castle coming off all the games other dungeons) but man, it comes across like OoT Ganon's Tower by comparison to Wind Waker's hodgepodge lair.
When it comes down to it, If I am in the mood where i'm going with WW over TP it's honestly just because of the window dressing Anihawk mentioned earlier in his post.
Maybe it's just because I found the extra tinkering with WW benfitted it more than the extra tweaks for TP.
On the other hand TP's dungeon and puzzle design utterly craps on Wind Waker from astronomical heights, in that department it's not even a contest.
I think TP generally has more things bogging it down pacing wise throughout, Wind Waker doesn't really hit bad pacing for me until its later segments.
So about the endgames, Wind Waker's is pure trash, look I know the actual Dorf fight has a cool setting, neat pre fight plot stuff and the fight as easy as it is has punch but everything else before that? utter wank, possibly the strongest example of "we totally rushed this game" in Zelda's history. An incomplete boss rush preceded by single rooms of tepid puzzle design probably cut from their respective dungeons, a lost woods segment, A LOST WOODS SEGMENT! And some looooong staircases, hmm yes utterly compelling stuff.
TP's endgame is still lacking (challenge is disappointing as is Hyrule Castle coming off all the games other dungeons) but man, it comes across like OoT Ganon's Tower by comparison to Wind Waker's hodgepodge lair.
When it comes down to it, If I am in the mood where i'm going with WW over TP it's honestly just because of the window dressing Anihawk mentioned earlier in his post.
Moon_frogger
Member
I just can't agree. On paper, yes. I've never been able to finish TP though. It's just so been there done that. I played it for 5, 10 hours various times and it just felt like a slog. Wind waker just has this sense of adventure that works so well. Even today it feels fresh and exciting. I think it's very underrated and the only real flaw is it's too easy. I've played it 7 or 8 times to completion but I still haven't slogged through TP. The pacing in that game is terrible.
RichiRamjag
Member
No need to. Skyward Sword is a damn good Zelda game. It's got flaws like all of them, but as a whole, all of the zelda games are great (I don't fuck with Zelda II though).
Dice//
Banned
*raises flame shield*
I'd argue it does what Ocarina did better, so... I actually put it above that and toss away the rose-tint glasses.
I'll subscribe to your newsletter.
I could argue WW being the worst 3D Zelda game, so yea. It has weak dungeons and items, it's severely lacking in content, it's way too easy, and it has some of the worst pacing in a Zelda game due to that atrocious fetch quest. It's only redeemable quality is its presentation.
TP is one thousand times better. The dungeons, the items, the combat, the best companion character in the franchise. I don't think it's even close
TP is one thousand times better. The dungeons, the items, the combat, the best companion character in the franchise. I don't think it's even close
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
Twilight Princess never felt as cool as it was trying to be. Like that friend who makes edgy jokes that never land. I love Midna, and TP has GOAT Ganondorf, but nearly everywhere else it swings and misses for me.
Or maybe I just didn't like being a wolf.
Or maybe I just didn't like being a wolf.
Dice//
Banned
I'm fine giving WW the benefit of a fantastic representation of the world through its art and design. But for a game that prides itself on exploration (because it sure as shit isn't the dungeons that stand out), but the islands aren't really all that exciting most of the time (seriously, the One-Five Eyed Reefs are wasted) and we get snubbed a couple dungeons, the first[!] being a really lame stealth section.
TP, IMO, is the more "realized Hyrule", the only time I felt like it was the place it always intended to be with thriving cities and histories.
TP, IMO, is the more "realized Hyrule", the only time I felt like it was the place it always intended to be with thriving cities and histories.
bobone
Member
Windwaker is so great because of the ocean, the exploration, the emptiness and the music. Its a very similar feeling that Breath of the Wild gives. Almost the entirety of the game you're alone, free to explore and enjoy the world. Just sailing and listening to the amazing soundtrack is reason enough to make it one of the top Zelda games.
It came out in 2002, so gaming was in a very different place than it was in 2006, and a really different place than it is now. But you can see so many great first ideas in Windwaker that carried over to Breath of the Wild.
Twilight Princess does nothing new that is worth noting. The only risk they took was the Link dog; and that was an absolute failure, and the reason I don't replay that game more often.
It came out in 2002, so gaming was in a very different place than it was in 2006, and a really different place than it is now. But you can see so many great first ideas in Windwaker that carried over to Breath of the Wild.
Twilight Princess does nothing new that is worth noting. The only risk they took was the Link dog; and that was an absolute failure, and the reason I don't replay that game more often.
CannonFodder52
Member
Played through both for the first time a few years back. Wind Waker has become one of my all time favorite games. TP was ok.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
I agree with you OP. WW is great but TP is second best 3D Zelda to me (for now).
Soul of the Beast
Member
\ Behold, the great Zelda community. /
My first Zelda is Breath of the Wild so I am obviously very new to this franchise, but It just seems like every single Zelda fan had their own different opinions.
I don't even know what Wind Waker is anymore, is it the worst Zelda or the best Zelda? cause that's what I been hearing all the time. Either it's a masterpiece or a worthless pile of shit.
It's even more polarizing than the Souls community. At least most people loved Demon's Souls and the original Dark Souls.
My first Zelda is Breath of the Wild so I am obviously very new to this franchise, but It just seems like every single Zelda fan had their own different opinions.
I don't even know what Wind Waker is anymore, is it the worst Zelda or the best Zelda? cause that's what I been hearing all the time. Either it's a masterpiece or a worthless pile of shit.
It's even more polarizing than the Souls community. At least most people loved Demon's Souls and the original Dark Souls.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Better dungeons in TP, but Wind Waker wins on style and basically everything else.
OrbitalBeard
Member
When a franchise has been around for 30 years, you're going to get a lot of different opinions.
Wind Waker is more charming, has a better atmosphere abd an incredible sense of adventure and exploration. Personally I loved sailing the seas in WW much more than riding around in TP. That said, while I do prefer WW overall, TP is still a great game. OoT still the GOAT though (haven't played BotW yet)
Lightning Lord
Banned
It is simultaneously the best and worst Zelda, duh.
I'm a weirdo and enjoy pretty much every Zelda.
MiamiWesker
Member
While exploration is WWs strong suit I don't get the TP world bashing. The world was used in so many events and moments. The entire carriage chase through hyrule field which was amazing. Jousting on the gigantic bridge was iconic. Riding a flying dragon down the river. Going through a huge desert while riding massive boars and taking in an entire Moblin encampment. Snowboarding down a snow capped mountain. Being able to go under the sea like a Zora and explore lake hylia. getting into an old west like shootout in an abandoned town.
There is so much more variety and memorable moments in TP than WW. Honestly WW open world suffers from the same issue BOTW open world does where things start to get cut and paste and you see the same structures and islands over and over again. Every single location in TP is unique.
brandonh83
Banned
I don't always have to be finding something specific to feel a sense of adventure or exploration and the main quest was pretty grand on its own.
City in the Sky alone gave me this huge sense of wonder and that was one dungeon. The world had plenty of great and majestic locales. I don't know what game you guys played.
My biggest gripe with Twilight Princess is how insultingly easy it was. I died twice in my entire thirty hour playthrough, and both times were when I was just fucking around. I thought I was going to die during the Stallord fight, I'd finally die just playing the game, but I narrowly made it with one heart container filled. Some of my favorite dungeons in the series, though.
I just really, REALLY love Wind Waker's sense of adventure. Get your boat and go. It's the best in the series for that until Breath of the Wild came along.
I just really, REALLY love Wind Waker's sense of adventure. Get your boat and go. It's the best in the series for that until Breath of the Wild came along.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
No. And complimenting TP on any amount of exploration is hilarious.
Nocturnowl
Member
Disappointment can still count as discovery!
"oh boy I wonder what's in this square...oh, another *insert eye* reef"
"lets' see what my latest treasure chart has hauled me!....oh, more rupees"
That last point basically applies to all Zelda games mind you and TP in particular.
Actually quite close truth for me, Wind Waker starts off with boatloads (HOHOHOHO) of potential, it's only around the mid point that the illusion is broken.
Where things that could've been cool discoveries like the ghost ship, the constant merman fish hinting at treasures of sorts and such turn out to be completely mandatory things for the main game. When you realise that you've already been to all the NPC filled islands the moment you hit Forest Haven and the rest of the great sea isn't nearly as interesting.
OrbitalBeard
Member
There are definitely lots of cool setpiece moments in TP and the dungeons are great. But man, exploring the overworld couldn't be any less fun. When you're not directly engaged in the main quest, the game is a drag. Well, other then fishing.
The Wind Waker is a great game to just explore. That being said, I think I prefer TP overall.
It isn't really a controversial opinion. Twilight Princess is a great game and has some pros over Wind Waker such as the dungeons for example. I also agree the weapons and bosses are better in Twilight Princess.
What I've always preferred over Wind Waker is how it was able to execute the open seas. I know it's considered "boring" but I loved sailing in that game. It felt like I was genuinely sailing across the world and for it's time that was pretty dope. I loved just getting on a boat and being able to go anywhere and find something on every island.
What I've always preferred over Wind Waker is how it was able to execute the open seas. I know it's considered "boring" but I loved sailing in that game. It felt like I was genuinely sailing across the world and for it's time that was pretty dope. I loved just getting on a boat and being able to go anywhere and find something on every island.
Agree with OP.
I have tried so hard to like to Wind Waker. Love the art style; love the music. I have started a new game on three different occasions to try and get into it, but once it opens up and you are spending a lot of time sailing, I get so bored and forget what I am supposed to be doing and I quit.
My 3D Zelda ranking is:
1. Breath of the Wild
2. Twilight Princess
3. Skyward Sword
4. Ocarina of Time
5. Wind Waker
(Haven't played Majora's Mask.)
I have tried so hard to like to Wind Waker. Love the art style; love the music. I have started a new game on three different occasions to try and get into it, but once it opens up and you are spending a lot of time sailing, I get so bored and forget what I am supposed to be doing and I quit.
My 3D Zelda ranking is:
1. Breath of the Wild
2. Twilight Princess
3. Skyward Sword
4. Ocarina of Time
5. Wind Waker
(Haven't played Majora's Mask.)
thechristoph
Sir!
Girls, girls, you're both beautiful!
WW and TP are both fantastic games. Wind Waker initially bored and confused me on the Gamecube. I loved and still love Toon Link, Tetra, all the character designs; but the ocean really bothered me. It felt like I was zipping around on a big blue blanket. There was a disconnect for me until I played WWHD. Everything finally clicked for me and I loved the game. I never made it to the Triforce Hunt part in the original (quit at Dragon Roost), but I've heard the horror stories. I'm glad they fixed it.
Wind Waker's arsenal isn't all that great, but the combat is very strong. The rhythmic feel of the combat along with that dodge and backstab move was so satisfying.
Twilight Princess seemed to be heavily inspired by the Lord of the Rings films. Ordon is basically the Shire. It goes from a simple life to a dark adventure. I don't think there was too much in terms of exploration because everything was fairly well-charted, but the world was still very fun to explore. I very much enjoyed collecting all the bugs; there weren't a ton of them and they weren't particularly difficult to find, but the hunt was fun. Wolf Link sucked and still sucks to control, but like WWHD fixed its boring slog part, they shortened Wolf Link's segments in TPHD considerably.
TP has an amazing arsenal. The ball and chain, the double clawshots, the top spinner, the hawkeye and combo arrows, functional and cool looking armor sets... awesome stuff!
They're both fantastic games and I'm happy to have them both in HD.
WW and TP are both fantastic games. Wind Waker initially bored and confused me on the Gamecube. I loved and still love Toon Link, Tetra, all the character designs; but the ocean really bothered me. It felt like I was zipping around on a big blue blanket. There was a disconnect for me until I played WWHD. Everything finally clicked for me and I loved the game. I never made it to the Triforce Hunt part in the original (quit at Dragon Roost), but I've heard the horror stories. I'm glad they fixed it.
Sunken Hyrule Castle? Amazing!! Wish it was a full dungeon though...
Wind Waker's arsenal isn't all that great, but the combat is very strong. The rhythmic feel of the combat along with that dodge and backstab move was so satisfying.
Twilight Princess seemed to be heavily inspired by the Lord of the Rings films. Ordon is basically the Shire. It goes from a simple life to a dark adventure. I don't think there was too much in terms of exploration because everything was fairly well-charted, but the world was still very fun to explore. I very much enjoyed collecting all the bugs; there weren't a ton of them and they weren't particularly difficult to find, but the hunt was fun. Wolf Link sucked and still sucks to control, but like WWHD fixed its boring slog part, they shortened Wolf Link's segments in TPHD considerably.
TP has an amazing arsenal. The ball and chain, the double clawshots, the top spinner, the hawkeye and combo arrows, functional and cool looking armor sets... awesome stuff!
They're both fantastic games and I'm happy to have them both in HD.
You are 100% right OP. Twilight Princess is a much better game than Wind Waker in almost every aspect. Some people dislike it for following OoT so closely, but I think it manages to expand upon many aspects that made Ocarina great and introduce new ideas as well. Twilight Princess is constantly challenging you in new ways and is well-paced outside the admittedly slow opening.
TP
+Dungeons
+Items
+Gameplay diversity
+Decent challenge (especially compared to Wind Waker)
+Art style is great, but the textures are not
+Music
+Unique combat skills
+Midna is the best helper
-Slow opening
-Side quests were lacking (though minigames were fun)
WW
+Art style makes the GCN game still look good today
+Music
+Story
+Solid combat
-Poor pacing with segments that force the game to a screeching halt
-Easiest Zelda by far
-Forgettable dungeons that reused gimmicks
-Empty sea. Sometimes wandering upon an island gave you a sense of discovery, but often times what you found was not worthwhile.
I like Wind Waker, but I would consider it to be the worst of the 3D Zeldas with Skyward Sword just barely being above it.
TP
+Dungeons
+Items
+Gameplay diversity
+Decent challenge (especially compared to Wind Waker)
+Art style is great, but the textures are not
+Music
+Unique combat skills
+Midna is the best helper
-Slow opening
-Side quests were lacking (though minigames were fun)
WW
+Art style makes the GCN game still look good today
+Music
+Story
+Solid combat
-Poor pacing with segments that force the game to a screeching halt
-Easiest Zelda by far
-Forgettable dungeons that reused gimmicks
-Empty sea. Sometimes wandering upon an island gave you a sense of discovery, but often times what you found was not worthwhile.
I like Wind Waker, but I would consider it to be the worst of the 3D Zeldas with Skyward Sword just barely being above it.
brandonh83
Banned
How so? Big game with a big world and plenty of things to find. Not sure how it's hilarious to feel that way. The one I played had plenty to explore. Saying there's no exploration is literally saying there's nowhere to go or nothing to see and that's just objectively false. Perhaps you personally didn't get into it or care about what you found or apparently didn't find but that doesn't apply to everyone.
MiamiWesker
Member
Well that's the thing with TP, they put everything into the main quest. What would normally be side quests and mini games in past zelda games TP puts all of it into the main quest. There isn't much outside the main quest because it's all in the main quest.
Manny Calavera
Member
Wind Waker is there among my top favorite Zelda games and one where I fell in love with the charming visuals and characters, the real sense of adventure and a perfectly fitting melancholy soundtrack.
Twilight Princess is great as well and Minda is among my top favorite Zelda characters. So both are great but I prefer Wind Waker.
Twilight Princess is great as well and Minda is among my top favorite Zelda characters. So both are great but I prefer Wind Waker.
thepenguin55
Member
So I haven't really played any handheld Zelda games post Link's Awakening (despite many of them seeming pretty cool), but Breath of the Wild might be the first Zelda game I finish since Ocarina (which was a game I actually really disliked). As for the others:
- I've always admired the weirdness of Majora's Mask but the time mechanic (and the timing of its release) was enough for me to say "no thanks"
- I really liked Wind Waker but got side tracked at some point and never returned to it
- Twilight Princess felt like someone at a preproduction meeting for the game stood up and said "what if we made an Ocarina style game that appealed to the Hot Topic crowd? This is how can we get in on that sweet sweet Jack Skellington money!" lol. Combine that with the terrible Wii controls and the absolutely abysmal start to that game and I tapped out pretty early
- Skyward Sword seemed kind of cool but it also has a slow start and I found the controls kind of tiresome, so I was eventually sidetracked by something else
- I've always admired the weirdness of Majora's Mask but the time mechanic (and the timing of its release) was enough for me to say "no thanks"
- I really liked Wind Waker but got side tracked at some point and never returned to it
- Twilight Princess felt like someone at a preproduction meeting for the game stood up and said "what if we made an Ocarina style game that appealed to the Hot Topic crowd? This is how can we get in on that sweet sweet Jack Skellington money!" lol. Combine that with the terrible Wii controls and the absolutely abysmal start to that game and I tapped out pretty early
- Skyward Sword seemed kind of cool but it also has a slow start and I found the controls kind of tiresome, so I was eventually sidetracked by something else
I personally didn't care about any of the NPCs which is a cardinal sin if you want to care about the world and its worldbuilding. Not even Zelda since you literally have no relationship with her. Malo is worse than Tingle and Beedle COMBINED.