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Twilight Princess is definitively better than Wind Waker
- Thread starter Regiruler
- Start date
The triforce quest at the end of Wind Waker really rubs me the wrong way. It seems like it only exists to artificially lengthen the game. Thankfully they made it much more tolerable in the remake. I would still say I Prefer WW to TP though overall. WW feels like a unique experience, while TP is OoT on steroids.
Nah dude, BotW is literally a more mainstream and higher production values version of Wind Waker.
If you love the sea you might find Wind Waker exploration and freedom as if not more rewarding than BotW despite its technical limitations but since exploring land is more appealing to the lowest common denominator than exploring sea it's obvious that BotW overworld is rewarded higher.
The higher production value then come from the fact that they had the time and the needs to put 100+ shrines in the world which works well as a filler for the exploration.
PhilipDoesMatter
Member
100% agreed. WW is a drag .
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No, I agree with you. Its why I think Wind Waker is the worst 3D Zelda. Not that it's a bad game, but it's the only one I have in the 8/10 category (and maybe Skyward Sword depending on my mood). I'm just explaining why others defend it.
thechristoph
Sir!
I....what? I don't agree with anything here. What about TP is Hot Topic? Is there a segment where Ilya puts on heavy black eyeliner and cuts herself that I skipped?
And the Wii controls were dope. Arrow sniping with the pointer was fantastic. Waggle to attack was nothing special but benign. Definitely not as bad as Skyward Sword's finicky-ass Motion Plus implementation which required re-centering constantly.
I actually agree with the OP, but I still hold WW in high regard. I think TP was crapped on due to motion controls on the Wii, but I loved it on GC. I didn't play it until 2011/2012 (after SS). The new tools were cool, but I found some of them to be criminally underutilized. The poe quest was also a bore. WW is really overrated on GAF though, same with Super Mario Sunshine.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No. You are joking if you think BotW hails from tWW. Exploration, in tWW, is entirely pointless. All of the meaty playable content in tWW is in the dungeons. The dungeons must be completed in linear order. If you divert from this order by exploring to find other places when you could be pursuing the plot, you get rupees or whatever - trivial to the point of patronising. You might explore a bit for the first two hours, but you'll rapidly stop when you realise there is no point to exploring - the Great Sea looks the same everywhere, there is an island per square, any rewards outside of the main quest are mundane, the Great Sea is mostly empty anyway, exploring means you take longer than following the suggested path to reach dungeons which are the actual content.
BotW's shrines aren't a 'higher production' value - it's a fundamentally different design decision. Firstly, they're actual content. You don't find one and get a rupee for it, you get a puzzle, an actual gameplay experience, a genuinely feel-good reward for doing so. Secondly, you can do them in any order, and doing so can actually change the rest of your game experience, which incentives you to explore to do so. BotW's Hyrule is incredibly different from place to place visually and is just pleasant to explore, and the actual means of exploring is interesting in and of itself, unlike tWW's 'point in relevant direction, use the wind waker, go in straight line until you arrive'.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Ok.
I hate opinion threads, but I want to add to the pool of voices against Twilight Princess. I really found it to be a lifeless open world, I particularly disliked Snowpeak non-dungeon, and was turned off by everything about the wolf mechanics.
I beat the game, found everything but the bugs, and have never been able to repay it. Twilight Princess was so unenjoyable that it's the only console Zelda game I haven't 100%'ed in the last 20 years (BotW not standing, still working on it). I have tried to go back and replay it several times to see what about the game everyone finds appealing, but good God, the game is so unenjoyable that I can't. I can't stomach the game again for any time longer than the first first dungeon. Midna is awful.
In OoT, I grinded three consecutive perfect horseback archery scores in hopes of a fabled "golden saddle", and as frustrating as that was to do, I'd still rather attempt that again than replay Twilight Princess.
I just got 24/25 on BotW's horseback archery to get the second reward, and I'm considering going for 25/25 just to achieve it, and that is more appealing than the thought of playing TP again.
I beat the game, found everything but the bugs, and have never been able to repay it. Twilight Princess was so unenjoyable that it's the only console Zelda game I haven't 100%'ed in the last 20 years (BotW not standing, still working on it). I have tried to go back and replay it several times to see what about the game everyone finds appealing, but good God, the game is so unenjoyable that I can't. I can't stomach the game again for any time longer than the first first dungeon. Midna is awful.
In OoT, I grinded three consecutive perfect horseback archery scores in hopes of a fabled "golden saddle", and as frustrating as that was to do, I'd still rather attempt that again than replay Twilight Princess.
I just got 24/25 on BotW's horseback archery to get the second reward, and I'm considering going for 25/25 just to achieve it, and that is more appealing than the thought of playing TP again.
MoneyLaunderer
Member
Gotta disagree. I found myself bored with TP compared to WW. But to each their own.
bizzarewars
Banned
Eh, I don't know where I stand on this.
I LOVE Wind Waker for it's aesthetic and the overall good vibes I get from playing it. At the same time, though, a lot of things bug me about it, like the later gae dungeons and the Triforce stuff.
Twilight Princess is kind of derivative in the way it looks and apes Ocarina, but I do like the overall way it plays.
So... Idk. They're both pretty good games, IMO.
I LOVE Wind Waker for it's aesthetic and the overall good vibes I get from playing it. At the same time, though, a lot of things bug me about it, like the later gae dungeons and the Triforce stuff.
Twilight Princess is kind of derivative in the way it looks and apes Ocarina, but I do like the overall way it plays.
So... Idk. They're both pretty good games, IMO.
cireza
Member
The fact that they added the new sail to speed up movement in Wind Waker HD totally changed the game for me.
The initial release, on GC, I could not even play the game because of how ANNOYING it was to change the direction of the wind all the time, not speaking about the low speed of the boat.
HD remaster updated this, and I discovered my secret favorite 3D Zelda game.
The initial release, on GC, I could not even play the game because of how ANNOYING it was to change the direction of the wind all the time, not speaking about the low speed of the boat.
HD remaster updated this, and I discovered my secret favorite 3D Zelda game.
Alcotholic
Banned
Twilight princess is great after you slog through the beginning. And I mean it when I say SLOG. Wind waker is great up until the massive fetch quest where you hit a giant metaphorical brick wall.
What. Not at all. First of all a lot of the WW island's contents are gated depending on your current toolset. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there will be situations where you are exploring, stumble upon an island, and won't be able to do anything there.
This is never an issue in BOTW.
In BOTW the Shrines are meant to reward the exploration, some are very well hidden, and there's enough variety in how you find them. Mazes, Shrine Quests, riddles, a lot of them are there for the player to find, and some the player has to go out of their way to make them appear, making the feeling of exploration the player goes through when finding these shrines different enough. The only time you know you are bound to find a shrine is when you get to a town, for quick-travel purposes.
In WW due to the grid-nature of the map the player already knows they are bound to find at least one island per Grid, greatly diminishing the sense of exploration, and after playing enough the player will already notice the pattern that if there's multiple islands on the same grid, these islands are related in some way to the same event/puzzle.
About the one thing these two games have in common in their open world is the enemy camps/outposts across the land that the player will stumble upon, that and the relatively empty spaces between spots of interest.
However the BIGGEST differences in terms of exploration are the climbing mechanics the so-called Ubisoft towers, thanks to the fact that NPCs will give detailed instructions on how to reach a place, you can find your way through a map once you activate a tower, since all it does it show you the name of locations. The topographic map also helps the player know which route to take depending on what options they have for moving around and climbing (number of stamina upgrades, stamina/speed boosting food, weather, a certain powerup you get from a dungeon, etc)
The games sense of explorations are really nothing similar.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I still maintain that TP has one of the best paced out dungeons in the entire franchise.
Goron Mines - the way it slowly introduces a ton of dungeon unique gimmicks and then has a boss fight built around every single one of them is absolutely awesome. It really makes the boss fight feel like the final test of the dungeon where you put all the knowledge you gathered in it together.
Goron Mines - the way it slowly introduces a ton of dungeon unique gimmicks and then has a boss fight built around every single one of them is absolutely awesome. It really makes the boss fight feel like the final test of the dungeon where you put all the knowledge you gathered in it together.
Sakura
Member
I think it just depends in what you are looking for in the games. Personally, as blasphemous as it may sound, I don't care about dungeons in Zelda games. The things that stand out in my favourite Zelda games are not the dungeons. So yea, TP may have more and better dungeons, but to people like me, that doesn't really matter.
FrontalMonk
Banned
The best Zelda game is the one you grew up with. In my case, that's LTTP, and nobody is going to tell me different.
Thabass
Member
Bending_Unit_22
Member
When it comes to TP vs. WW I go with:
Exploration - I prefer TP in practice but like what WW was aspiring to, the island in the middle of every square took half the fun away.
Dungeons - TP without question.
Combat - About the same, TP might be a little better with most of the moves learned.
Story - About the same, but I prefer the darker tone to TP.
World - TP for me just because I prefer more realism, I had no issue with Celda from the start but it's something I prefer a few times here or there.
So TP it is for me, especially HD.
I've long thought that about Zelda, as noted above the game has multiple aspects, exploration, dungeons/puzzles, combat, story, world, with 2D/3D options. When people argue which is the best Zelda they're usually actually arguing which aspect they like the most as represented by which game represents it best. I think they're:
Exploration - BotW (3D), I (2D)
Dungeons - TP (3D), ST (2D and overall)
Combat - SS (3D), II (2D and probably overall)
Story - MM
World - WW (3D), LA (2D)
Of course they all have part of every aspect, my personal favorite Zelda is LttP since while it's not strong in any one aspect it isn't weak in any either.
Exploration - I prefer TP in practice but like what WW was aspiring to, the island in the middle of every square took half the fun away.
Dungeons - TP without question.
Combat - About the same, TP might be a little better with most of the moves learned.
Story - About the same, but I prefer the darker tone to TP.
World - TP for me just because I prefer more realism, I had no issue with Celda from the start but it's something I prefer a few times here or there.
So TP it is for me, especially HD.
I've long thought that about Zelda, as noted above the game has multiple aspects, exploration, dungeons/puzzles, combat, story, world, with 2D/3D options. When people argue which is the best Zelda they're usually actually arguing which aspect they like the most as represented by which game represents it best. I think they're:
Exploration - BotW (3D), I (2D)
Dungeons - TP (3D), ST (2D and overall)
Combat - SS (3D), II (2D and probably overall)
Story - MM
World - WW (3D), LA (2D)
Of course they all have part of every aspect, my personal favorite Zelda is LttP since while it's not strong in any one aspect it isn't weak in any either.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Twilight Princess's exploration is horrendous. With few exceptions, its locations are big and empty and dull and completely fail to draw your eye to the places you should want to go; it's like the anti-BotW in this regard.
The Wind Waker's ocean setting actually encourages this very thing by letting everything worthwhile stand out against the horizon, and it feels more rewarding to explore as a result.
Twilight Princess has a good stretch from dungeons 4 to 7 where it cuts the bullshit but everything else is plodding and tedious. It's crazy to see so many people act like Skyward Sword invented bad pacing in a Zelda game when Twilight Princess is right there. Plus its bosses are still insultingly easy like most Zelda games and the items are rarely useful outside their dungeons.
Wind Waker has its issues and I'm not even sure I can play the GameCube version ever again after fast sailing but even if most of its dungeons aren't great it manages to surround itself in a fantastic world that ties into a much better story.
The Wind Waker's ocean setting actually encourages this very thing by letting everything worthwhile stand out against the horizon, and it feels more rewarding to explore as a result.
Twilight Princess has a good stretch from dungeons 4 to 7 where it cuts the bullshit but everything else is plodding and tedious. It's crazy to see so many people act like Skyward Sword invented bad pacing in a Zelda game when Twilight Princess is right there. Plus its bosses are still insultingly easy like most Zelda games and the items are rarely useful outside their dungeons.
Wind Waker has its issues and I'm not even sure I can play the GameCube version ever again after fast sailing but even if most of its dungeons aren't great it manages to surround itself in a fantastic world that ties into a much better story.
Better dungeons do not a Zelda make.
I like Twilight Princess, but as a Zelda game, it's completely middling. The biggest thing it has going for is, like you say, the dungeons. In addition, it's got pretty unique dungeon items that you use once and then never use again (spinner) and also a pretty intriguing dark backstory with the Twilight Realm, that honestly, doesn't ever really live up to it's potential.
Wind Waker is full to the brim with charm. Has way more interesting sidequests and characters than Twilight Princess, and has really fun exploration. Twilight Princess has long stretches of field to explore...And Wind Waker's story, while simplistic, is fun and rewarding.
TP just is not as memorable to me, and I've finished it three times. WW I can remember nearly the entire game.
I like Twilight Princess, but as a Zelda game, it's completely middling. The biggest thing it has going for is, like you say, the dungeons. In addition, it's got pretty unique dungeon items that you use once and then never use again (spinner) and also a pretty intriguing dark backstory with the Twilight Realm, that honestly, doesn't ever really live up to it's potential.
Wind Waker is full to the brim with charm. Has way more interesting sidequests and characters than Twilight Princess, and has really fun exploration. Twilight Princess has long stretches of field to explore...And Wind Waker's story, while simplistic, is fun and rewarding.
TP just is not as memorable to me, and I've finished it three times. WW I can remember nearly the entire game.
KojiKnight
Member
Let's just all agree, that Nintendo needs to revist Zelda 2 after this spiritual successor to Zelda 1... It can be a ALBW style, but dammit it needs to happen.
I know I'm not the only person who has Zelda 2 in his top 5 Zelda games!
Im with you. The enemy and boss designs in TP are excellent. It's not a controversial opinion to me at all.
As for this thread, after replaying both games a couple of years ago, there's no question in my mind about which game is better. I dislike the idea of trashing a game I love to prop up another one though. That's what this thread pretty much consists of. It's clear to me that the games have different strengths and since Zelda fans tend to come in variety, each game is going to scratch a different itch. I'm a guy who prefers dungeon and puzzles since "exploration" in Zelda (and most games for that matter) amounts to nothing more than aimless distractions with little or no relevant rewards.
It's an easy question for me: would I rather go into the Lost Woods and fuck around or try conquering an abandoned Gerudo Prison that's been sacked by demons? Give me the prison any day. That sounds like more fun.
Magicpaint
Member
Zelda II was a neat experiment but nothing I'd want to see for future titles. I would say it probably has the most engaging combat in the series though.
This isn't true. You use it in future dungeons and a small portion of the overworld opens up with its addition to your toolset.
This isn't true. You use it in future dungeons and a small portion of the overworld opens up with its addition to your toolset.
It's the illusion of exploration, the vast open sea that evokes the feeling. But it's extremely shallow and most isles have basically nothing to offer.
Solid SOAP
Member
I'd easily buy a remake with better graphics, more balanced difficulty, and improvements to gameplay ala Zero Mission.
Joke thread?
The only game that gives you more items in a more rapid succcession than Wind Walker is BotW.
It's the best game in the series.
Twilight Princess is good. It's creepy and Midna is the best companion Link's had by a mile. But it's also a chore and it takes forever to start.
The only game that gives you more items in a more rapid succcession than Wind Walker is BotW.
It's the best game in the series.
Twilight Princess is good. It's creepy and Midna is the best companion Link's had by a mile. But it's also a chore and it takes forever to start.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Twilight Princess forces you to play as wolf link.
Wind Waker is better
Wind Waker is better
Otherspacing
Member
As someone that has tried to finish Wind Waker for around three times already. Well... yeah, of course TP is better.
Wind Waker has:
- Bad stealth. It doesn't even let you act on the consequences of being found, it mainly just throws you back to the beginning, which sucks a lot
- Simple and forgettable dungeons
- Pointless sea exploring
- Poor pacing
The game has charm and beautiful graphics, but that's it. Charm and graphics alone can't hold the game.
For the people comparing it to Breath of the Wild, I don't see how they are similar. Just the fact that BotW is on land and Link has a varied set of moves and stuff to interact with already puts it miles ahead of the boat from WW sailing into the meaningless sea.
Wind Waker has:
- Bad stealth. It doesn't even let you act on the consequences of being found, it mainly just throws you back to the beginning, which sucks a lot
- Simple and forgettable dungeons
- Pointless sea exploring
- Poor pacing
The game has charm and beautiful graphics, but that's it. Charm and graphics alone can't hold the game.
For the people comparing it to Breath of the Wild, I don't see how they are similar. Just the fact that BotW is on land and Link has a varied set of moves and stuff to interact with already puts it miles ahead of the boat from WW sailing into the meaningless sea.
Completely agree with the OP.
TP is my favorite 3D zelda (Tied with OOT)
Windwaker was always slightly disappointing to me, despite the style and charm. The underlying game just never lives up to the quality of the art direction.
TP just boggled my mind when I played it. So many huge epic moments.
TP is my favorite 3D zelda (Tied with OOT)
Windwaker was always slightly disappointing to me, despite the style and charm. The underlying game just never lives up to the quality of the art direction.
TP just boggled my mind when I played it. So many huge epic moments.
MiamiWesker
Member
I don't understand bad pacing and TP outside the beginning. It's the most constantly engaging Zelda game ever made. The main quest has almost no downtime, you go from new activity to new activity constantly. New gameplay concepts are introduced every hour or so. I would say TP is the best paced Zelda game as there is no downtime. Wandering a giant world hoping to find something interesting is bad pacing.
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
The 60+ minute intro of Twilight Princess makes me feel otherwise.
Goldenroad
Member
I think I agree. I love the art style of the WW, but it's mostly just too much open world, and I don't really like the boat traversal. I love everything else about it, but those two things put it a little behind TP. Either way...I feel like I may not ever be able to go back to any 3D Zelda game after BotW....if I ever make it through BotW.
capylikesgames
Banned
Wind Waker held my attention til the end, whereas my interest in Twilight Princess faded early on, so I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, OP. Thankfully, this is all subjective. <':
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
Ehhhh...I don't think so. I really like both but something about the bright art and colorful characters of WW appeals to me more than TP.
Lightning Lord
Banned
I'd argue that it's pretty obvious Zelda team took a good look at the various elements of TWW and MM when they revisited those titles and applied them to BotW. I'm pretty sure there is a quote from Aonuma somewhere that says as much--I would search for it but I'm currently busy at work.
Grylvak
Member
Having replayed TPHD to complete the Wolf Link amiibo function for BoTW, I had to force myself to complete the game. Twilight Princess in regards to the dungeons are great.
Everything else is very sub par IMO compared to Wind Waker.
Side Note: This is mainly a problem with the HD version, but the horse controls are somehow worse on Wii U than in the GC and Wii versions. How do you fuck that up?
Praise be to my favorite Yeti couple.
Side Note: This is mainly a problem with the HD version, but the horse controls are somehow worse on Wii U than in the GC and Wii versions. How do you fuck that up?
I rewatched Matthewmatosis' Twilight Princess review today and he sums it up pretty well. Wind waker tried some new things and a lot of them paid off. If he was a robot Twilight Princess is a clear winner, but he's not, he appreciates the originality of wind waker even if some elements are lacking, TP just isn't as distinct.
I feel the same way. Twilight Princess doesn't deserve some of the shit it gets. It's a great game, but it does feel a little redundant.
I feel the same way. Twilight Princess doesn't deserve some of the shit it gets. It's a great game, but it does feel a little redundant.