They looked at all their previous games and listened to the various criticism the series has had over the years. That still doesn't make the exploration in both games in any way similar.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Twilight Princess is definitively better than Wind Waker
- Thread starter Regiruler
- Start date
They looked at all their previous games and listened to the various criticism the series has had over the years. That still doesn't make the exploration in both games in any way similar.
moltonasty
Member
I didn't even play LTTP until wayyy later (my first was Link's Awakening then Ocarina) and I still think it's possibly the best in the series. BOTW might surpass it though, not sure just yet.
Omega Kirby
Member
Yup. WIndwaker only has it's visuals, everything else is just considerably worst.
Like even the worst parts of TP are better than the worst parts of WW.
Wolf bug hunting > Triforce piece quest/Any type of sailing.
Like even the worst parts of TP are better than the worst parts of WW.
Wolf bug hunting > Triforce piece quest/Any type of sailing.
Caponetone
Neo Member
Twilight Princess had some solid dungeons but for me it had really bad pacing at times and too much filler content and not to mention an awful prologue. It's probably my least favorite art style for a Zelda game too. The game isn't bad by any means but probably my least favorite 3D Zelda. WindWaker HD version which fixed tedious sailing problems and trimmed the fat on the triforce hunt made it one of my favorite Zelda games. The game is absolutely beautiful too. Lack of dungeons kinda sucks but I love the exploration aspect of it. It's definitely in my top 3 Zelda games probably behind Majora's Mask and BOTW.
Leatherface
Member
This thread is surreal to me since I remember when Wind Waker first launched on the Gamecube people here acted like Nintendo ruined everything and Wind Waker was the worst "kiddie" game ever. Now it is hailed as an iconic classic. Oh how times have changed.
I've always loved Wind Waker personally. Besides the horribly boring tutorial village opening I found the game to be incredibly charming. The world was compelling and the experience was interesting and different. The final section of the game was such an epic conclusion to the game. I just fell in love with it. Twilight Princess however felt like a rehash. It was good but bored me after awhile. I never actually finished it!! I feel like I should go back and play the HD version to see if my opinion has changed. Maybe I will do that after Breath of the Wild? hrmm
I've always loved Wind Waker personally. Besides the horribly boring tutorial village opening I found the game to be incredibly charming. The world was compelling and the experience was interesting and different. The final section of the game was such an epic conclusion to the game. I just fell in love with it. Twilight Princess however felt like a rehash. It was good but bored me after awhile. I never actually finished it!! I feel like I should go back and play the HD version to see if my opinion has changed. Maybe I will do that after Breath of the Wild? hrmm
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
To an extent - I can certainly see it with MM - but the point is they learnt from them and fundamentally changed them. BotW is not just a bigger tWW done on land.
HeresSomeWeapons
Member
Twilight Princess is still the best Zelda in well over a decade for me. The story, the characters, the dungeons, the music, the combat....everything is great except the lackluster boss fights. BotW has a better overworld though. Wind Waker has....well, it can say it's different, I guess. The best thing I can say about Wind Waker is that it isn't Skyward Sword.
Sonic Rift
Member
...I like them both equally. Please don't hurt me.
MrSaturn99
Member
"Pointless" isn't really the world I'd use to describe exploration in any Zelda game.
It's that the tear hunts are divided throughout the first act of the game that gives it a slow first impression, I wouldn't describe them as "hard" (yet for whatever reason I always lose my direction in the Lanaryu region), but that they're so boring, dreary and miserable is why they're a common sticking point.
And I already said the Triforce Hunt was lazy, so...
Pretty much. Wind Waker doesn't succeed at everything it tries, but most of it is stuff I really appreciate and that's why it's probably still my favorite Zelda. Hardly the best, but hardly the worst.
It's that the tear hunts are divided throughout the first act of the game that gives it a slow first impression, I wouldn't describe them as "hard" (yet for whatever reason I always lose my direction in the Lanaryu region), but that they're so boring, dreary and miserable is why they're a common sticking point.
And I already said the Triforce Hunt was lazy, so...
Pretty much. Wind Waker doesn't succeed at everything it tries, but most of it is stuff I really appreciate and that's why it's probably still my favorite Zelda. Hardly the best, but hardly the worst.
MiamiWesker
Member
Hurt this man!!! You have to rank them!!!
Ok can we all agree MM is the best zelda.
I think that shows just how boring Twilight Princess is compared to Windwaker.
let me laugh
better dungeons: where there is a puzzle or an enemy to kill, a chest with a key and a door with a lock?,
better bosses: nope, they maybe be "better lookin" but they suck mechanically and are easy as shit, like EASY AS SHIT
more rewarding exploration: what exploration?
better items is subjective, i like the dual claw shot.
both are good games, but twilight is just ocarina on stereoids without any of the charm
DieNgamers
Member
Wind Waker was the start of what was to become BotW. Skyward Sword was another brick on that road. Both had their problems concerning overall flow but within their systems they gave you much more room to experiment.
Twilight Princess feels weirdly out of place because it is surrounded by progressive games. I wonder why the controls, animations, character design, story and overall game design of TP where such a step back. Well, I'd say even OoT and MM (which TP tries to capture the essence of) had deeper game mechanics.
I'm not trying to sound too harsh...Twilight Princess was a really good game for its time but the competition in its own franchise was a bit too strong.
A much worse example for this from Nintendo themselves would be Metroid Prime 3 for me. Such a giant step down from the previous two in every regard, it's quite shocking.
Twilight Princess feels weirdly out of place because it is surrounded by progressive games. I wonder why the controls, animations, character design, story and overall game design of TP where such a step back. Well, I'd say even OoT and MM (which TP tries to capture the essence of) had deeper game mechanics.
I'm not trying to sound too harsh...Twilight Princess was a really good game for its time but the competition in its own franchise was a bit too strong.
A much worse example for this from Nintendo themselves would be Metroid Prime 3 for me. Such a giant step down from the previous two in every regard, it's quite shocking.
Lightning Lord
Banned
Yes, that's exactly right. There are obviously a lot of elements taken from Zelda 1, but the things that worked in TWW and MM are also definitely there as well. I just wanted to be sure we weren't implying that any similarities with TWW weren't merely superficial. As someone who adored exploring The Great Sea and enjoyed those moments of purely sailing, I get a very similar vibe out of exploring in BotW.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I remember enjoying TP back in 2006. I'm replaying it right now and... I dunno. Not loving it yet. The first thing that strikes me is how bad this looks. This game has not aged well. I'm playing it on Dolphin, so I used a texture pack and some filters. It looks better now, to me at least.
What texture pack and filters are you using, so I know the NEVER use them. That looks like a blown out smeary stretched mess.
Trogdor1123
Member
I never ever finished twilight... I hated the sword mechanics. Does the wiiu version fix/change them?
klabautermann
Member
I love Twilight Princess, but nah man. Wind Waker is the best.
Wind Waker was near perfect for me. Great sense of adventure and freedom, beautiful visuals and nice story. End game is the best in the series for me, just brilliant build up and great final act.
Twilight Princess, whilst also a great game, just never captured my imagination like WW or OoT before it. I probably would have enjoyed it more on GC without motion controls, tbf. Often think maybe the world being mirrored and Link not being left-handed on Wii just subliminally didn't sit well with me. Like you can feel some parts were designed to be the other way round.
Twilight Princess, whilst also a great game, just never captured my imagination like WW or OoT before it. I probably would have enjoyed it more on GC without motion controls, tbf. Often think maybe the world being mirrored and Link not being left-handed on Wii just subliminally didn't sit well with me. Like you can feel some parts were designed to be the other way round.
DragonGirl
Member
Agreed. Wind Waker has always been the weakest console Zelda for me. Twilight Princess was an improved Ocarina which I liked. Twilight and Skyward are my favorites of the older 3D Zeldas. Everybody likes what they like which is fine, go diversity, but I've always hated how much people like to pile on Twilight and Skyward as if they are objectively inferior. You see that a lot and it's irritating. The Wind Waker squad can get really aggressive on GAF.
HeresSomeWeapons
Member
I dunno about all that....Twilight Princess is good, but let's not get crazy.
Pointless sailing? Try swimming then I guess.
Well... For me they are on par with mediocrity but at LEAST Wind Waker had a lot of new very interesting stuff, the statue you have to move in the tower of god have been retaken in TP, there is several dungeon you go with a partner which is nice and i am one of those guys who actually liked the first dungeon as a stealth session... So this one isn't a huge negative for me.
Twilight PRincess dungeon are "big" but... I felt like i already did everything they shown me with very few exception. (The manor, the waterfall puzzle in the water dungeon and.. That's all ? The boss with the gear thing was cool too. ). They are as linear as Wind Waker though and somewhat outstay their welcome a lot of time to me.
So yeah, the overall experience of Wind Waker dungeon was better to me than Twilight Princess... Only my opinion thought. Now Wind Waker dungeons aren't exactly an incredible thing either but hey...
DieNgamers
Member
Majora's Mask is best played without any guide. You'll probably get stuck or sidetracked a few times but that's the charm. It respects the player's intelligence.
pinkurocket
Member
Wind Waker > Skyward Sword > Twilight Princess
TBH
Skyward Sword has superior level & dungeon design. However Wind Waker wins because it's the most fun.
TBH
Skyward Sword has superior level & dungeon design. However Wind Waker wins because it's the most fun.
ReubyJuice
Member
That's funny, I loved TP and it stands out as one of my favourite Zelda games (still not sure whether I like it more than OoT or MM but it's up there), whereas Wind Waker I enjoyed for a while, then got bored and gave up on. I've always meant to return, though...
I prefer TP's dungeon count even if a few of the later ones were obviously stretched a bit too thin. Also item variety. I thought the bosses were really easy and boring though.
There was some backtracking padding I didn't like in WW and I remember it kinda felt like it ended early.
That being said, if I were to replay one or the other today it would probably be WW, just for feeling more fresh compared to recent offerings.
There was some backtracking padding I didn't like in WW and I remember it kinda felt like it ended early.
That being said, if I were to replay one or the other today it would probably be WW, just for feeling more fresh compared to recent offerings.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
TP is much better, no question. Sure, we all remember the good parts of WW, which is the graphics and art style, but once you begin playing it, it falls apart.
The starting of the game is fine, you get your plot and motivation, you get sword and shield, fight some easy baddies, they explain you the all new win button mechanic, etc.
Then you go to the horrible stealth dungeon. OK, I guess we need this tutorial dungeon, it sucks, but we manage to go through it.
Then you go to a town, and get a boat, but guess what? The boat doesn't have a sail. So now we have to go to town, do several mandatory boring mini games, including a photography one where it's very strict about the picture you take, or you need to do it again.
Once we finally get the things we need, several hours into the game, we can finally begin to sail. The freedom! The music! The vastness! The emptiness?
It turns out we can't sail everywhere we want because there are weird winds that prevent us from exploring. Fair enough! It's the beginning of the game and we can explore a small section of the sea.
We are pointed to our next destination, but because this is Zelda, we go off the way to explore. It turns out the world is full of little islands with nothing of value in them, and so begins the new tradition of useless Zelda items.
And we could go on and on. We could talk about the various shitty mandatory mini games, the badly paced dungeons or how there are only 4 of them, the triforce quest and rupee fetch quests, tingle, the dissonance between the story videos and what actually happens in game or the atrocious final fight where the only challenge is pressing the win button three times.
And I'm not a fan of TPs final boss nor BOTWs, but this is another level of bad.
It's the worse of Nintendo in one game. Rushed, padded and extremely easy.
TP has a horrible two hour start, it's the most scripted Zelda game ever, has a shoved in final boss, and some very questionable design, pace and art choices, but at least it's competent. Mediocre, but competent. And it's a fun ride.
The enraging aspect of WW is the missed potential.
The starting of the game is fine, you get your plot and motivation, you get sword and shield, fight some easy baddies, they explain you the all new win button mechanic, etc.
Then you go to the horrible stealth dungeon. OK, I guess we need this tutorial dungeon, it sucks, but we manage to go through it.
Then you go to a town, and get a boat, but guess what? The boat doesn't have a sail. So now we have to go to town, do several mandatory boring mini games, including a photography one where it's very strict about the picture you take, or you need to do it again.
Once we finally get the things we need, several hours into the game, we can finally begin to sail. The freedom! The music! The vastness! The emptiness?
It turns out we can't sail everywhere we want because there are weird winds that prevent us from exploring. Fair enough! It's the beginning of the game and we can explore a small section of the sea.
We are pointed to our next destination, but because this is Zelda, we go off the way to explore. It turns out the world is full of little islands with nothing of value in them, and so begins the new tradition of useless Zelda items.
And we could go on and on. We could talk about the various shitty mandatory mini games, the badly paced dungeons or how there are only 4 of them, the triforce quest and rupee fetch quests, tingle, the dissonance between the story videos and what actually happens in game or the atrocious final fight where the only challenge is pressing the win button three times.
And I'm not a fan of TPs final boss nor BOTWs, but this is another level of bad.
It's the worse of Nintendo in one game. Rushed, padded and extremely easy.
TP has a horrible two hour start, it's the most scripted Zelda game ever, has a shoved in final boss, and some very questionable design, pace and art choices, but at least it's competent. Mediocre, but competent. And it's a fun ride.
The enraging aspect of WW is the missed potential.
Twilight Princess is a "dark" remake of Ocarina of Time (which is still a superior game in pretty much every way, no argument), and for that it loses tons of points. Ganondorf felt shoved in as a villain, the story was bland, the tear/wolf sections were annoying, and while the dungeon design was awesome, the whole game was just very...grey, and boring. And again, it was Ocarina of Time....again.
Wind Waker is light years ahead. Not sure what people are smoking in this thread. Must be a similar thing to kids who saw Episode 1 first and think it's the best Star Wars movie or something.
Wind Waker is light years ahead. Not sure what people are smoking in this thread. Must be a similar thing to kids who saw Episode 1 first and think it's the best Star Wars movie or something.
I appreciate that they didn't want to do horseback all over again and do something new, but that didn't pay off for me and it shows when TP and BotW both return to these tried-and-true methods. To me the whole feature amounted to "Epona but instead you have to play a song to make her go in the right direction while staring at a featureless sea" — and the optional islands that pepper the exploration were disappointingly boring and small.
TP definitely had problems in trying tickle Western balls and really dragging shit out but that still isn't nearly as awful as having to constantly warp all over the fucking world searching for treasure maps to get transcribed for a big fee to then search for the actual Triforce piece. And that's next to frustrating and crappy dungeons.
mrmickfran
Member
Donkey Thong
Member
Wind Waker is a fantastic game. It might be my favorite Zelda game but I acknowledge it has some glaring flaws.
Twilight Princess is at best uninspired. At worst boring. It never sucked me in. There's absolutely nothing memorable about it. It actually put me off the series until.... well.... until BoTW.
Twilight Princess is at best uninspired. At worst boring. It never sucked me in. There's absolutely nothing memorable about it. It actually put me off the series until.... well.... until BoTW.
Version 3.0
Member
It's a bummer that, all too often, ranking Zelda games involves more bashing other games than praising the one you like.
I personally prefer Twilight Princess to Wind Waker, because of the great dungeons and varied areas. Wind Waker was great, too, but Twilight Princess wins on more and better designed content.
I have my complaints about both games, of course. Probably neither of them would be in my top 5 Zelda games. And what a crazy thing to say: "Top 5 Zelda games". It seems so recent that there weren't even 5 Zelda games in total.
I personally prefer Twilight Princess to Wind Waker, because of the great dungeons and varied areas. Wind Waker was great, too, but Twilight Princess wins on more and better designed content.
I have my complaints about both games, of course. Probably neither of them would be in my top 5 Zelda games. And what a crazy thing to say: "Top 5 Zelda games". It seems so recent that there weren't even 5 Zelda games in total.
They are both my favorite of the series. Haven't finished BotW yet.
I really do think that TP gets too much hate for nothing, like being similar to OoT. I don't see that as a bad thing besides lack of originality. I liked how dark it was in tone and the dungeon design was my favorite of the series for sure. Some of the puzzles had me legit stumped but it was never something crazy or gimmicky like how some of the dungeons felt like in WW.
I also liked how diverse each area and dungeon was. Each dungeon had a memorable (for me) miniboss and boss. And despite the music being MIDI, I think it's also my favorite of the series. The battle theme was catchy and the boss music (Fyrus!) was good shit.
I really do think that TP gets too much hate for nothing, like being similar to OoT. I don't see that as a bad thing besides lack of originality. I liked how dark it was in tone and the dungeon design was my favorite of the series for sure. Some of the puzzles had me legit stumped but it was never something crazy or gimmicky like how some of the dungeons felt like in WW.
I also liked how diverse each area and dungeon was. Each dungeon had a memorable (for me) miniboss and boss. And despite the music being MIDI, I think it's also my favorite of the series. The battle theme was catchy and the boss music (Fyrus!) was good shit.
hydragonwarrior
Member
getout.gif
The super fans of Wind Waker seem to always be the most vocal in their bashing of TP, there's obviously something at odds with the design of the two games
Also pretty much every dungeon in OoT is better than its respective themed dungeon in TP, which is why I can't really understand why people are hung up on TP's amazing dungeon design as its selling point.
KelpPlankton
Member
Oh, we're finally far enough away from Twilight Princess's release that people are forgetting it's a mediocre game now. I guess once the next Zelda hits they'll start talking about Skyward Sword this way.