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[Neoleo2143]

Yet to play the game but it certainly seems to be a true classic.

HOWEVER. It's too early to say really, and it still annoys me with people calling it the greatest game of all time, or a classic.

Say what you love about it, and then in 10 years tell me its a classic.

I think it'll be a classic in 10 years as well. And Part of that feeling is the DLC. For all my qualms about DLC technically meaning that the game isn't done, it means that the devs have more time to fine tune other elements to what more hardcore members of the fanbase may want which is absolutely the right move for DLC imo. It was telling that Nintendo's devs knew what they were trying to do when Aonuma mentioned that the DLC was being geared for "veterans of hyrule".

And on the base game, no open world I've ever played comes close to this game in terms of signposting but being subconscious about it while not being path driven. I feel pushed to do anything, yet the invisible hand guides me to memorable moments on a regular basis.

 

[gamerMan]

It's interesting to see how different reviewers, gamers, and developers are receiving it. Everybody is coming at it from a different perspective. It's great that everybody can celebrate such a landmark game.

A lot of developers are talking about this game on Twitter from Naughty Dog To Ubi Soft to Insomniac. Developers are floored by the layered systems and simulation aspects. It's nice to see a different perspective from a game development point of view as these people have a greater appreciation for what Nintendo has achieved.

Say what you love about it, and then in 10 years tell me its a classic.

I don't think you will get the Skyward Sword effect with this game. Nintendo has completely wiped the old formula off the table and started something new much like Ocarina of Time. Ocarina of Time wasn't perfect but it was ahead of its time. While it is not perfect, this game will always be remembered as not only a new direction for Zelda but a new direction for open world games with a systems and simulation focus.

 

[PataHikari]

I mean there are a few. Most notably the Blood Moon is glitched and sometimes happens in the middle of the day or twice in a row which you probably did experience but didn't register

I don't think that's actually a glitch.

Rather, I think it's the game detecting some other glitch or some other weird thing going on and triggering a Blood Moon to reset the world, because people have had those random Blood Moons "fixed" by reloading the game.

 

[Lingitiz]

Can't really agree with that as I played and completed the entirety of Horizon without way points. The world is actually designed really well designed and I find it much superior to the offering in BotW. As a result, I actually found that world easier to navigate due to the variety of environments and design thereof without waypoints then Zelda's frequently bland looking hills and mountains.

Completely disagree. Even though Horizon's world is large, you're still stuck a lot of the paths they've left for you. Without waypoints you're still just on a trail. That's for me when an open world becomes this space you travel in to chain missions, rather than an actual explorable landmass. The combination of the verticality and the ability to climb anything and glide anywhere in Zelda makes navigation so much more freeform, to the point where you can miss pivotal characters or discover crazy things off the beaten path.

I don't want to make too many comparisons, but for me that's what makes Zelda's world so much more compelling. The possibilities feel endless, even if it's not as visually astounding as other open world games. I can set a direction with no real goal and come away having fun, whereas with other open world games if I don't have an icon or checkbox set to fill, then there's not much there for me.

 

[Cuburt]

To add to this, another reason why they should all have watched the GDC panel, before doing the podcast, was to also discuss about the "multiplicative gameplay" which, apart from getting the world balance right, was the main goal behind the game. They discussed the world extensively, but almost completely ignored the other part, which they absolutely wouldn't have done, had they all watched the panel first.

Good point. I had forgot about that and it actually addresses a lot of what I pointed out in the second half of the post you quoted.

The multiplicative gameplay approach is one that definitely helped BotW become as highly regarded as it has.

 

[Primethius]

Completely disagree. Even though Horizon's world is large, you're still stuck a lot of the paths they've left for you. Without waypoints you're still just on a trail. That's for me when an open world becomes this space you travel in to chain missions, rather than an actual explorable landmass. The combination of the verticality and the ability to climb anything and glide anywhere in Zelda makes navigation so much more freeform, to the point where you can miss pivotal characters or discover crazy things off the beaten path.

I don't want to make too many comparisons, but for me that's what makes Zelda's world so much more compelling. The possibilities feel endless, even if it's not as visually astounding as other open world games. I can set a direction with no real goal and come away having fun, whereas with other open world games if I don't have an icon or checkbox set to fill, then there's not much there for me.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing at all. I'm referring to exploring the actual world itself without way points and guidance, not the method of exploration. You were stating that Horizon's world design without waypoints would be bad and obscure and I replied by stating that I find it to be much better designed from a visual and player guidance perspective than Zelda's.

 

[zelas]

It takes a lot of the "make your own story" aspect of games like Minecraft but implants that into a world with its own story and cohesion. When you play and explore randomly you're basically making your own epic story without the developers laying down any explicit path for you.

Example: the other day I was in the desert region and found a camp of bokoblins sitting by some explosive barrels. There was another explosive barrel a bit closer to me so I decided to stick some octo balloons to it and try to float it over towards them. Well, I didn't quite get it to float in their direction. The balloons popped when the barrel was floating over this nearby patch of tall grass, so I got upset that the bokoblins would now know that I'm here.

But it turns out, there were a couple lizalfos camouflaged sitting in that grass! So I unwittingly killed both of them where, if I approached the bokoblin camp like a normal person with my sword drawn, they would've wound up flanking me from behind.

That's an emergent story that I experienced with this game. The designers didn't plan or guide me into doing this, but it felt just as real as the actual, crafted story.

You've never experienced or heard of emergent stories like that with games like GTA? I remember hearing a lot about people's stories of chaos and escape. GTA5 itself has presented so many tools and diverse opportunities for hijinks, outside of its story as well. Its longevity at the top of the charts is a testament to that.

I keep seeing posts like these suggesting that being able to have these kind of emergent experiences in BotW is what sets it apart from all other open world or sandbox games. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

 

[Lingitiz]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing at all. I'm referring to exploring the actual world itself without way points and guidance, not the method of exploration. You were stating that Horizon's world design without waypoints would be bad and obscure and I replied by stating that I find it to be much better designed from a visual and player guidance perspective than Zelda's.

Yes, and like I said I don't agree at all. Zelda encourages you to gain vantage points in order to read that visual language. See a bright light off in the distance, and you'll start making your way there. That verticality is really important. Horizon is more about following a path to the next area, with some diverging pathways and machine encounters scattered about. It's really simple and doesn't capture a sense of discovery for me.

 

[Primethius]

Yes, and like I said I don't agree at all. Zelda encourages you to gain vantage points in order to read that visual language. See a bright light off in the distance, and you'll start making your way there. That verticality is really important. Horizon is more about following a path to the next area, with some diverging pathways and machine encounters scattered about.

Agree to disagree I suppose. I think your really selling Horizon's world design super short and it doesn't remotely describe the world of Horizon. Horizon doesn't have the climbing mechanics of Zelda but it's not as if that game has Aloy grounded like she's Geralt or something. She can climb mountains to gain verticality just fine, albeit in a more limited capacity compared to Link. Put it another way, I'd much rather take Horizon's world with Link style climbing than the other way around.

 

[Stereogatari]

I think it'll be a classic in 10 years as well. And Part of that feeling is the DLC. For all my qualms about DLC technically meaning that the game isn't done, it means that the devs have more time to fine tune other elements to what more hardcore members of the fanbase may want which is absolutely the right move for DLC imo. It was telling that Nintendo's devs knew what they were trying to do when Aonuma mentioned that the DLC was being geared for "veterans of hyrule".

And on the base game, no open world I've ever played comes close to this game in terms of signposting but being subconscious about it while not being path driven. I feel pushed to do anything, yet the invisible hand guides me to memorable moments on a regular basis.

"The invisible hand" is a perfect way to encapsulate it.

 

[Freddo]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the link

 

[Cerium]

Aonuma mentioned that the DLC was being geared for "veterans of hyrule".

I think I missed this, can you post the interview or wherever where he said it?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

"The invisible hand" is a perfect way to encapsulate it.

They talk about this in the video posted in the OP for a bit.

 

[pringles]

You've never experienced or heard of emergent stories like that with games like GTA? I remember hearing a lot about people's stories of chaos and escape. GTA5 itself has presented so many tools and diverse opportunities for hijinks, outside of its story as well. Its longevity at the top of the charts is a testament to that.

I keep seeing posts like these suggesting that being able to have these kind of emergent experiences in BotW is what sets it apart from all other open world or sandbox games. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

GTA may be the series with the most to learn from BotW. GTA's mission structure is ridiculously strict, scripted and with very little room to actually use the sandbox. Try to do something a little bit out-of-the-box and you'll be greeted with a "mission failed".

 

[Lumination]

As someone who only likes (not LOVES) the 2d Zeldas and got tired with open world games after GTA3, BotW's master class in game design cannot be overstated.

Similar to how Assassin's Creed molded the open world genre to its liking over a decade ago, you will see a clear difference in the games being released today vs the ones being released 2-3 years from now when developers adopt BotW's teachings.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

BotW doesn't really do anything new per se but its incredible how polished the game is. 70 hours in and haven't come across a single bug or glitch. Everything works as it should. And that's pretty amazing for an open world game of this scale.

Ah, I was wondering, as a open world fan since Driver iirc (it's too bad they screwed up in the PS2 era with the race against Rockstar, but learning Watch Dogs is somewhat of a Driver successor and how much I like WD2, it seems like there's a will to learn from mistakes at Ubisoft. Freaked out when I saw the Driver SF homage in WD2, loved that game).

I don't mind the jank at all, especially with Bethesda games, thank goodess they allow mods, though I loved those before I moved to PC. Some of my best moments with GTA SA was the random or the things I could do with codes. I'll check out the video soon, I just wonder what so many people mean when they say Zelda changed the open world game and people should follow. I never noticed it when watching streams.

GTA may be the series with the most to learn from BotW. GTA's mission structure is ridiculously strict, scripted and with very little room to actually use the sandbox. Try to do something a little bit out-of-the-box and you'll be greeted with a "mission failed".

I find Watch Dogs better than GTA 4 and above thanks to being able to tackle missions how you want. Bringing back the good times of GTA 3's. Since 4, GTA has been all about the scripted gameplay to me. GTAV was better, but 4 was so bad with strict missions that anything lighter could look like gold. In Watch Dogs 2 I just send max level gang members in the deepest part of a protected area to cause a firefight and slip in with the jumper, drone, or just go in myself. Non lethal will be interesting. I didn't realize the stealth beatdown attack was a kill so I can't do it in my current run.

 

[Chaos17]

I just wonder what so many people mean when they say Zelda changed the open world game and people should follow. I never noticed it when watching streams.

I don't who you watch but normally you should hear often "can I do it? HOLY SHIT I can!" moments ^^ Unless they all play like barbarians who just scavenge and go camp to camp and just follow story, yeah that will be boring to watch. Try to find someone who wants to explore and play out of the box. You might see fun stuff.

 

[VariantX]

I don't who you watch but normally you should hear often "can I do it? HOLY SHIT I can!" moments ^^ Unless they all play like barbarians who just scavenge and go camp to camp and just follow story, yeah that will be boring to watch. Try to find someone who wants to explore and play out of the box. You might see fun stuff.

Though I spoiled myself a bit with gifs and vids but I get the general idea is that Zelda:BotW doesn't give shit about how you accomplish your objectives, only that they get done. It's like those physics puzzles in HL2, but with far more complexity and it extends to every part of the game.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Buy, don't rent. Yup.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I think I missed this, can you post the interview or wherever where he said it?

I mean it's in the video where they announced the DLC. It could be PR speak, but I think it's more how they plan to approach the DLC and who they're looking at for their target audience. And it makes total sense, I mean building the DLC for those who understand the base game is a good idea in general and it's why the Old Hunters DLC of Bloodborne works well.

 

[gamerMan]

I feel that Horizon really perfected the traditional open world formula with a very controlled and scripted world that is driven by a narrative and production values . It is going to be hard to top that type of open world game.

However, with Zelda you have the start of something completely new that can be refined and made even better. I think Ben Nicholas who is a Senior Environmental Artist at UbiSoft put it best:

 

[Shaanyboi]

I don't mind the jank at all, especially with Bethesda games, thank goodess they allow mods, though I loved those before I moved to PC. Some of my best moments with GTA SA was the random or the things I could do with codes. I'll check out the video soon, I just wonder what so many people mean when they say Zelda changed the open world game and people should follow. I never noticed it when watching streams.

The environment actually matters in BotW. Aside from how the story progresses, you actually think about and engage with the terrain around you. If you set off a fire arrow, it might start burning shit up. Being cold is a thing to consider. It raining is a thing to consider. A lightning storm can be a bad deal if you have metal shit on you, but it can also help you fuck up enemies if you're clever.

Simultaneously, you're not looking at icon vomit on your map constantly. It doesn't turn exploring the world into a chore or just a bunch of checklists. Exploration actually means something and is rewarding for it.

 

[Naked Snake]

I've had the Switch and this game for a week now and I have wanted to do nothing other than play it since then. Sadly I haven't been able to play it as much as I want (maybe clocked 15 to 20 hours so far), and it's been pretty much occupying my thoughts all the time when I'm not playing it.

I'm someone who declared himself as no longer a gamer after I failed to play any console or PC game in the past two generations. I only played a couple of games a year at best on 3DS, and that's it. I thought I have outgrown this hobby or something, but this game has enchanted me like no other has in decades.

The only Zeldas I played were OoT, Wind Waker, and Minish Cap. I gave up on Twilight Princess in the first dungeon because I found it too same-y and I had grown tired of the formula by then. Also the forced and long tutorial section bored me to death. I stopped caring about the series and stopped following the sequels since I assumed Nintendo was going to keep making them the same way. I didn't even know that BoTW was taking a different approach and fixing everything I hated about the series until a few weeks before its release. Boy was I in for a surprise and a treat.

And I'm so glad it's on a portable, because I might have not played it otherwise. And not only is the Switch a portable, but it's one that allows you to play it in any number of different modes and setups to suit your preferences and environment. My favorite is playing while laying in bed with a joycon in each hand and the tablet "floating" over my head in a holder; it's the most comfortable and natural thing for me. No hand cramps, backache, or forearm fatigue. When my friend tried this setup he said "It feels like I'm controlling the game with my brain."

Edit: if anyone buys this holder make sure you don't overtighten the thing when you install it, or the plastic will start cracking​. I read that in the reviews and also the seller will mention it in an email after your product is delivered. I've been using mine for a week (and installating it and removing it after every use) with no issues, as long as you're aware of its weak points and careful with it.

 

[Spinifex]

I've had the Switch and this game for a week now and I have wanted to do nothing other than play it since then. Sadly I haven't been able to play it as much as I want (maybe clocked 15 to 20 hours so far), and it's been pretty much occupying my thoughts all the time when I'm not playing it.

I'm someone who declared himself as no longer a gamer after I failed to play any console or PC game in the past two generations. I only played a couple of games a year at best on 3DS, and that's it. I thought I have outgrown this hobby or something, but this game has enchanted me like no other has in decades.

The only Zeldas I played were OoT, Wind Waker, and Minish Cap. I gave up on Twilight Princess in the first dungeon because I found it too same-y and I had grown tired of the formula by then. Also the forced and long tutorial section bored me to death. I stopped caring about the series and stopped following the sequels since I assumed Nintendo was going to keep making them the same way. I didn't even know that BoTW was taking a different approach and fixing everything I hated about the series until a few weeks before its release. Boy was I in for a surprise and a treat.

And I'm so glad it's on a portable, because I might have not played it otherwise.

Lovely to read the thoughts of someone playing this who has been out of the loop for a while. An old friend of mine who hasn't really played games at all since he started adult'ing 10 years ago bought a Switch and Zelda - which I found pretty amazing. I think it really is something special to a lot of people.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I don't who you watch but normally you should hear often "can I do it? HOLY SHIT I can!" moments ^^ Unless they all play like barbarians who just scavenge and go camp to camp and just follow story, yeah that will be boring to watch. Try to find someone who wants to explore and play out of the box. You might see fun stuff.

I did see someone in the cold with no warmer clothes to use, but had a flame sword and that worked. Though personally I'm not a fan of the survival aspect, skipped hardcore mode in Fallout NV (need food, water, sleep, etc.), I think I see what you mean.

While doing side things in Watch Dogs 2 I would come across pickups that I couldn't reach because my jumper wasn't modded to jump higher. Using the drone to hover at a certain spot, my character's head, and other things I manage to make platforms to reach things and it feels great when I get the point. When none of that works, I go find a forklift or something else. If the high scores of Zelda make more open world game makers allow players to tackle things their own way I'm all for that. I love that stuff Rockstar...

I hope GTA6 is more open with it's missions going back to the 3's time. I doubt it though, they shut down players for finding good ways to finish missions in GTAO and made that mode a pain to play with their constant nerfs and anti quality of life patches.

Edit: Oh also Hitman, the latest one was awesome, though split into episodes with a cliffhanger. More play your way games? Yes, please.

 

[Remeard]

And honestly, the game just wouldn't work at all without weapon degradation. What's the point of exploring camps looking for neat weapons, or taking on a lynel when you already have a great end game weapon or a lynel bow?

What's the point of exploring camps if you have a good weapon? Why risk breaking a good weapon against an enemy along the way when there's likely little to gain? I skipped most of the encounters in Hyrule Castle (fought one Minotaur, skipped at least another and the guardians) because there was absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

ok , Ken Levine hunting amiibos online made me laugh

 

[Hilarion]

Maybe. There's little in the way of handholding but it doesn't punish you much for experimenting and dying.
Mario Odyssey is seemingly going in the same direction

That's one thing I do like about BOTW, a game I have problems with. It's very Super Meat Boy about death...you want to try to climb this tower 25 times and succeed on attempt 26? No problem.

Super Meat Boy is one of my favorite games ever and part of that is its snappy "OK, you died, back in the saddle" attitude.

 

[BY2K]

"I certainly didn't expect them to stick the goddamn landing... ON THEIR FIRST TRY!"

I laughed at that part.

 

[Spinluck]

I really don't think it does. It's a great game but it really doesn't do anything new, just what it does do it does well. Biggest thing devs can learn from the game is giving more freedom to players.

There isn't a game out there that is like BoTW.

It offers its own experience, of course it borrows elements from modern open world game design, but it differentiates itself in its execution.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I've had the Switch and this game for a week now and I have wanted to do nothing other than play it since then. Sadly I haven't been able to play it as much as I want (maybe clocked 15 to 20 hours so far), and it's been pretty much occupying my thoughts all the time when I'm not playing it.

I'm someone who declared himself as no longer a gamer after I failed to play any console or PC game in the past two generations. I only played a couple of games a year at best on 3DS, and that's it. I thought I have outgrown this hobby or something, but this game has enchanted me like no other has in decades.

The only Zeldas I played were OoT, Wind Waker, and Minish Cap. I gave up on Twilight Princess in the first dungeon because I found it too same-y and I had grown tired of the formula by then. Also the forced and long tutorial section bored me to death. I stopped caring about the series and stopped following the sequels since I assumed Nintendo was going to keep making them the same way. I didn't even know that BoTW was taking a different approach and fixing everything I hated about the series until a few weeks before its release. Boy was I in for a surprise and a treat.

And I'm so glad it's on a portable, because I might have not played it otherwise. And not only is the Switch a portable, but it's one that allows you to play it in any number of different modes and setups to suit your preferences and environment. My favorite is playing while laying in bed with a joycon in each hand and the tablet "floating" over my head in a holder; it's the most comfortable and natural thing for me. No hand cramps, backache, or forearm fatigue. When my friend tried this setup he said "It feels like I'm controlling the game with my brain."

Games like Bloodborne and BotW remind us why we loved this hobby in the first place. Loved reading your thoughts!

 

[Zia]

I've never seen so much unbridled admiration from developers for a brand new game, and it's totally deserved. The best video game.

 

[jdstorm]

"I certainly didn't expect them to stick the goddamn landing... ON THEIR FIRST TRY!"

I laughed at that part.

This is a bit of a misnomer. Monolith Soft were one of the key drivers behind the world design and this is essentially their 3rd try at this (Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X)

 

[Chronospherics]

I think there are obviously some positive influences you could take from breath of the wild, but there's also a lot of aspects you wouldn't want to take. I wouldn't say Breath of the Wild does story telling very well, for instance.

In general I worry that the game gets more praise than it deserves. Most devs know that users appreciate novelty, they know that users appreciate feedback. Far Cry 4 doesn't feature 17 of the exact same objective because its developers thought that was the best way to design a game, but because of the projects constraints (i.e they didn't want to spend the resources required in order to add novelty into the game).

Breath of the Wild is a rich and detailed world, but did game developers not know that players like rich and detailed environments? Do many Ubisoft games loop the same content over and over because the games developers thought that was the most enjoyable gameplay structure?

This is a bit of a misnomer. Monolith Soft were one of the key drivers behind the world design and this is essentially their 3rd try at this (Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles X)

It's also not as if the Zelda series isn't open world already. This is a larger open world environment, but games like Wind Waker were absolutely open world, if considerably more barren, and focused.

 

[RagnarokX]

I was watching this and Aaron Linde was talking about how he didn't get far in Skyward Sword because after "the longest introduction segment of a Zelda game that he had played" (which I guess means he never played Twilight Princess?) he was asked by some tree folk asked him to play hide and seek and he put down the controller. Now aside from the fact what Skyward Sword tasks you with doing before letting you reach the first dungeon is brief compared to the trainwreck that is Twilight Princess it got me thinking about the similarity of ideas between what Skyward Sword does and what BotW does. Don't get me wrong, BotW obviously does it better, but I thought it would be good to look at this.

Okay, so in Breath of the Wild you start up the game and bam you can go anywhere, right? Not really. A voice tells you to go to a point marked on your map, you go there and do something, then another character shows up and tells you to go to 4 shrines. You can see the location of all 4 shrines from the tower and mark them on your map. You can't explore the rest of the world until you complete this task. Each shrine gives you the game's equivalent of an item and a tutorial puzzle on how to use it. Reaching these shrines very organically brings you into contact with concepts that will aid you in your adventure. Reaching one shrine teaches you about cutting trees and climbing cliffs. Reaching another teaches you about dealing with regional temperatures. Speedrunners have been needing about 30 minutes to get past this part of the game. And of course leaving the Great Plateau isn't getting to a dungeon. Each dungeon in BotW requires several tasks of their own to be done before you're allowed entry.

So Skyward Sword. The intro is a bit long yes, but it's plot and character heavy. It takes about 30 minutes to get past Skyloft but half of that is cutscenes and the other half is swinging a sword around and fighting monsters, so not that bad. The story and characters are pretty good and you can skip them on replays. But it's once you reach Faron Woods that the game is like BotW. This whole segment gets you used to one of the most important elements of the game, dowsing, which replaces map markers and is similar to the sword mechanic in Shadow of the Colossus. You explore the woods looking for Zelda and come across a creature called a Kikwi. Exploring further you meet the Kikwi elder, who tasks you with locating 3 of his children before he will help you look for Zelda. Conceptually this task is the same as visiting the 4 shrines in BotW. To locate each of the 3 Kikwi you have to organically learn new skills that become useful in the game. To find them all you have to learn how to tightrope walk, roll into trees, roll logs. You can find them in any order. Once you find all 3 you are given a new item that allows you leave the woods.

So structurally very similar. In BotW you are escorted to the first shrine, but it's up to you to reach the other 3. In Skyward Sword you meet the Kikwi elder and have to figure out how to reach his 3 children. The size of the area you have to search in is obviously different, and unlike the shrines in BotW you can't see and mark the Kikwi on your map so the act of finding them is part of the challenge in addition to reaching them. But all in all they serve the same purpose.

 

[EscapeArtist]

Interesting conversation, and I haven't heard Aaron Linde on a podcast since he was on Dtoid Podcast way back with Jim Sterling and Anthony Burch.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I was watching this and Aaron Linde was talking about how he didn't get far in Skyward Sword because after "the longest introduction segment of a Zelda game that he had played" (which I guess means he never played Twilight Princess?) he was asked by some tree folk asked him to play hide and seek and he put down the controller. Now aside from the fact what Skyward Sword tasks you with doing before letting you reach the first dungeon is brief compared to the trainwreck that is Twilight Princess it got me thinking about the similarity of ideas between what Skyward Sword does and what BotW does. Don't get me wrong, BotW obviously does it better, but I thought it would be good to look at this.

Okay, so in Breath of the Wild you start up the game and bam you can go anywhere, right? Not really. A voice tells you to go to a point marked on your map, you go there and do something, then another character shows up and tells you to go to 4 shrines. You can see the location of all 4 shrines from the tower and mark them on your map. You can't explore the rest of the world until you complete this task. Each shrine gives you the game's equivalent of an item and a tutorial puzzle on how to use it. Reaching these shrines very organically brings you into contact with concepts that will aid you in your adventure. Reaching one shrine teaches you about cutting trees and climbing cliffs. Reaching another teaches you about dealing with regional temperatures. Speedrunners have been needing about 30 minutes to get past this part of the game. And of course leaving the Great Plateau isn't getting to a dungeon. Each dungeon in BotW requires several tasks of their own to be done before you're allowed entry.

So Skyward Sword. The intro is a bit long yes, but it's plot and character heavy. It takes about 30 minutes to get past Skyloft but half of that is cutscenes and the other half is swinging a sword around and fighting monsters, so not that bad. The story and characters are pretty good and you can skip them on replays. But it's once you reach Faron Woods that the game is like BotW. This whole segment gets you used to one of the most important elements of the game, dowsing, which replaces map markers and is similar to the sword mechanic in Shadow of the Colossus. You explore the woods looking for Zelda and come across a creature called a Kikwi. Exploring further you meet the Kikwi elder, who tasks you with locating 3 of his children before he will help you look for Zelda. Conceptually this task is the same as visiting the 4 shrines in BotW. To locate each of the 3 Kikwi you have to organically learn new skills that become useful in the game. To find them all you have to learn how to tightrope walk, roll into trees, roll logs. You can find them in any order. Once you find all 3 you are given a new item that allows you leave the woods.

So structurally very similar. In BotW you are escorted to the first shrine, but it's up to you to reach the other 3. In Skyward Sword you meet the Kikwi elder and have to figure out how to reach his 3 children. The size of the area you have to search in is obviously different, and unlike the shrines in BotW you can't see and mark the Kikwi on your map so the act of finding them is part of the challenge in addition to reaching them. But all in all they serve the same purpose.

BotW does such a great job of masking its tutorial (The Great Plateau) that most will never realize that it's actually just a really, really well done tutorial section. I'd argue it's the best open-world tutorial ever made.

 

[Memory]

I've never seen so much unbridled admiration from developers for a brand new game, and it's totally deserved. The best video game.

Crazy how just one month before people were so sick of open world games and checkpoint towers etc. Genre fatigue had set in but with one game people are excited for open world games again.

I think Red Dead is going to do very well, critically and in sales. They have time to take on the good feedback from things Zelda is doing and add t to an already amazing experience.

 

[rakka]

BotW does such a great job of masking its tutorial (The Great Plateau) that most will never realize that it's actually just a really, really well done tutorial section. I'd argue it's the best open-world tutorial ever made.

It's not that subtle. Was pretty damn obvious the great plateau was the tutorial area haha. That said, I didn't mind at all and was in awe of how much fun there was to be had in that tiny blip on the map. Even with the glider obtained I deliberately put off leaving TGP as long as I could

 

[_Clash_]

All of the Switch leaks actually came from inviting Aonuma to birthday parties and getting him drunk.

Lol


Cool video. Ken Levine wanting to buy a rare $73 amiibo is pretty funny

 

[atbigelow]

I was watching this and Aaron Linde was talking about how he didn't get far in Skyward Sword because after "the longest introduction segment of a Zelda game that he had played" (which I guess means he never played Twilight Princess?) he was asked by some tree folk asked him to play hide and seek and he put down the controller. Now aside from the fact what Skyward Sword tasks you with doing before letting you reach the first dungeon is brief compared to the trainwreck that is Twilight Princess it got me thinking about the similarity of ideas between what Skyward Sword does and what BotW does. Don't get me wrong, BotW obviously does it better, but I thought it would be good to look at this.

Okay, so in Breath of the Wild you start up the game and bam you can go anywhere, right? Not really. A voice tells you to go to a point marked on your map, you go there and do something, then another character shows up and tells you to go to 4 shrines. You can see the location of all 4 shrines from the tower and mark them on your map. You can't explore the rest of the world until you complete this task. Each shrine gives you the game's equivalent of an item and a tutorial puzzle on how to use it. Reaching these shrines very organically brings you into contact with concepts that will aid you in your adventure. Reaching one shrine teaches you about cutting trees and climbing cliffs. Reaching another teaches you about dealing with regional temperatures. Speedrunners have been needing about 30 minutes to get past this part of the game. And of course leaving the Great Plateau isn't getting to a dungeon. Each dungeon in BotW requires several tasks of their own to be done before you're allowed entry.

So Skyward Sword. The intro is a bit long yes, but it's plot and character heavy. It takes about 30 minutes to get past Skyloft but half of that is cutscenes and the other half is swinging a sword around and fighting monsters, so not that bad. The story and characters are pretty good and you can skip them on replays. But it's once you reach Faron Woods that the game is like BotW. This whole segment gets you used to one of the most important elements of the game, dowsing, which replaces map markers and is similar to the sword mechanic in Shadow of the Colossus. You explore the woods looking for Zelda and come across a creature called a Kikwi. Exploring further you meet the Kikwi elder, who tasks you with locating 3 of his children before he will help you look for Zelda. Conceptually this task is the same as visiting the 4 shrines in BotW. To locate each of the 3 Kikwi you have to organically learn new skills that become useful in the game. To find them all you have to learn how to tightrope walk, roll into trees, roll logs. You can find them in any order. Once you find all 3 you are given a new item that allows you leave the woods.

So structurally very similar. In BotW you are escorted to the first shrine, but it's up to you to reach the other 3. In Skyward Sword you meet the Kikwi elder and have to figure out how to reach his 3 children. The size of the area you have to search in is obviously different, and unlike the shrines in BotW you can't see and mark the Kikwi on your map so the act of finding them is part of the challenge in addition to reaching them. But all in all they serve the same purpose.

In one of the interviews (might have been the Making Of series), they talked about how BOTW was a super evolution of what they started with SS. After SS, they all agreed "we didn't go far enough."

You can see the roots of BOTW in SS, absolutely.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

My favorite is playing while laying in bed with a joycon in each hand and the tablet "floating" over my head in a holder; it's the most comfortable and natural thing for me. No hand cramps, backache, or forearm fatigue. When my friend tried this setup he said "It feels like I'm controlling the game with my brain."

You are living the dream man, I have to buy one of those

 

[Branduil]

Yeah, despite the fact that BotW is one of the most open open-world games ever, while Skyward Sword is super linear, its influence on BotW in many areas is quite clear.

 

[ACE 1991]

I bought a Switch for this game and don't regret even remotely. It's simply magical.

 

[Crayon]

I will listen later. I've been thinking about what makes the game so good for two weeks now. I've even about had my fill of it at about 40 hours (that's a lot, for me) but I know that many many people will be able to play this for 100+hours. For me personally the game is extremely good but not a personal favorite "of all time". When considering the goals of videogames at large tho, it's extraordinary. Taking the general audience into account, I'd say it's in the running for the best game yet made.

It reminds me most of mario 64. Especially the user training/reinforcement, and the visual navigation of the landscape. The story and story beats are weak but nobody cares. Everyone is doing backfips over the game itself and for good reason.

 

[Naked Snake]

You are living the dream man, I have to buy one of those

Haha, "living the dream" are the exact words I've been using to describe it with my friends. I recommend the one I linked to, it's not perfect, has a few issues, and depending on your bedframe might not work at all, but from my research on Amazon this one seemed to be the best bang for buck one by a large margin. And there were only one or two others that were actually "compatible" with the Switch (the rest were designed for tablets that are either wider or shorter).

I've been meaning to make a thread about it with photos and tips, but I'd rather play Zelda in my free time

 

[Akhe]

Thanks Op! I really enjoyed it

 

[Dangansona]

Hansen is the best part about GI.


mmmbop

He is but the whole staff and show is incredibly solid.

 

[balohna]

That's part of the fun for a lot of people. When I left the plateau, it took me over 2 days before I actually bothered to go into the town they advised me to go to, because I was having so much fun exploring. The best part is that if you're a person that solely cares about the story, then you can just focus on that instead. But yea, it's very easy to get sidetracked and "lost" in this game.

The interesting thing is that pretty early on the main story quest is basically "lol go explore".

 

[fastmower]

Agree to disagree I suppose. I think your really selling Horizon's world design super short and it doesn't remotely describe the world of Horizon. Horizon doesn't have the climbing mechanics of Zelda but it's not as if that game has Aloy grounded like she's Geralt or something. She can climb mountains to gain verticality just fine, albeit in a more limited capacity compared to Link. Put it another way, I'd much rather take Horizon's world with Link style climbing than the other way around.

I agree. I also wouldn't be surprised if Gorilla adopts the climbing of BOTW in Horizon 2.