Support NeoGAF

[bomblord1]

I've watched gameplay videos of it. It's an extremely generic looking futuristic racing game with track detail that falls short of previous games in the genre.

Being 1080p and running 60fps, with nice textures isn't some technological marvel that outclasses what Zelda's doing under the hood.

1080, 60fps, Physically Based Rendering, 4k Textures, Procedural Environments, ambient occlusion, HDR lighting, high quality shadows, and atmospheric light scattering.

Even if it looks "generic" due to art direction you can't really ignore what it is doing on a technical level. And yes it far outclasses every mobile phone racing game on the market from a technical perspective. I would say it probably outclasses every futuristic racer on the market on a technical level barring some PC or PS4 exclusive I'm not aware of.

 

[lwilliams3]

While running at 900p. Being developed only for Switch.



Oh, so we're down to 9 months now. Soon the Switch port will be just a week's work of an intern going by this rate.

A team working 1 year (or even 9 full months) just to port a game to a new platform is actually a hell lot of work put into that port. As I said, very few ports get that kind of effort. Unless you think Aonuma's team is somehow less competent that other developers.

Edit: and what's your assumption here? That the team that put so much consideration and attention to details in BotW just made the game run on Switch and then said "fuck it, it's good enough"? The simple fact that the game running in handheld mode (so just a small power bump from Wii U) has none of the Wii U version's issues should contradict this theory.

I believe it has been stated that the game began to get ported over to the Switch in the Spring. Nothing specific, but we know that the game was done at least weeks before the launch, and that Spring was less than a year ago. So maybe 9 to 11 months?

Either way, the game was being ported over while the original game was still getting worked on. That's difference from, for example, Mario Kart who had its base game done prior to its port development.

In addition, the game was designed to be look and feel exactly like the Wii U version. The physics engine, which was designed around Wii U's limited CPU power, had to remain unchanged on the Switch. There are things that you would have to do on the Wii U version that wouldn't be the most efficiently way on the Switch (and the Wii U version still choked out in places.)

I don't get why you're so hung up on Zelda showing the true potential for the system. History has constantly shown that 1st-gen titles simply don't do that.

 

[lwilliams3]

Please do I doubt they really hold up to it's Wii predecessor as well.

As to certain ideas floating in the thread as of late. It's nice switch has great devs tools, but lets not act as if since gamecube nintendo really has been the best exploiters or the only ones.

Zelda uses an old engine. Doubt it was really optimized as well as it could be and how it runs now couldn't be a better example of my point short of it performing like from software games do on consoles. Runs on a crappy kernel like every other major gaming platform currently. I'm really surprised it turned out as nicely as it did but like other zelda games will always be marred by having tech demos that idealize the game better than the reality we tend to get.

Hey. I'm glad you're back.

Personally, I think it's impressive that Nintendo was able to keep the game running on the Wii U. For having such a tiny CPU, they are doing things with physics and world interaction that games from most modern system don't compare to.

 

[SmokedMeat]

1080, 60fps, Physically Based Rendering, 4k Textures, Procedural Environments, ambient occlusion, HDR lighting, high quality shadows, and atmospheric light scattering.

The Wii U version had Physically based rendering, ambient occlusion, high quality shadows, and HDR lighting. The Wii U version apparently was using 4K textures, although I've seen no actual proof to back up this claim.

It sounds like you're claiming all of these as Switch exclusive features.

I don't feel it's as impressive on a technological level as Zelda. Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion on this.

 

[Hoo-doo]

The Wii U version had Physically based rendering, ambient occlusion, high quality shadows, and HDR lighting. The Wii U version apparently was using 4K textures, although I've seen no actual proof to back up this claim.

It sounds like you're claiming all of these as Switch exclusive features.

This. A list of technical features does not tell the whole tale.

The game looks and runs great. But it's far from a technical marvel.

 

[Hermii]

The Wii U version had Physically based rendering, ambient occlusion, high quality shadows, and HDR lighting. The Wii U version apparently was using 4K textures, although I've seen no actual proof to back up this claim.

It sounds like you're claiming all of these as Switch exclusive features.

I don't feel it's as impressive on a technological level as Zelda. Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion on this.

That's not the way I read it at all. He was saying no mobile game comes close to it, and it's a solid upgrade over the Wii U version.

 

[Celine]

I'm dead serious.

It's a simple looking racing game handling none of the physics system and open world rendering that Zelda is handling. My phone handles simple racing games really well to.

You are underestimating Fast RMX technical achievement, even if it's a simple futuristic racing game (therefore no open world) there is no racing game currently on phones that has the same graphical prowess.
It's am indie game and it shows but there is a reason DF called it "maybe the best looking portable game ever".

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Nintendo is trying to have the "console experience" on the go nonsense branding that did nothing for Sony.

Except Nintendo is putting their money where their mouth is, and the launch title for this portable machine is also their most ambitious home console game ever.

 

[Zombegoast]

Switch will always basically be a PS3/Wii U displaying 1080p games when docked and 720p games when undocked.

First off the Wii U is more capable than the 360. 1280x720, 60fps and Deferred Rendering can only be done one at a time on the PS3/360. People are forgetting that there are many Sub-HD games last gen. The assumption of the Wii U's performance needs to stop. Also there are no open world game like BOTW on those systems.

RMX is running 2x the resolution of the Wii U but also including enhanced visuals. 4.5x more while docked. This game is showing what can be done GPU side while Botw is a CPU intensive game which is 1:1 between both systems other than resolution.

 

[LCGeek]

First off the Wii U is more capable than the 360. 1280x720, 60fps and Deferred Rendering can only be done one at a time on the PS3/360. People are forgetting that there are many Sub-HD games last gen. The assumption of the Wii U's performance needs to stop. Also there are no open world game like BOTW on those systems.

RMX is running 2x the resolution of the Wii U but also including enhanced visuals. 4.5x more while docked. This game is showing what can be done GPU side while Botw is a CPU intensive game which is 1:1 between both systems other than resolution.

Are you smoking something? We have GTA5 which in it's various incarnations would give good insight in to a topic like this.

Good points on RMX though.

Also the Mario kart Switch like RMX shows good ports are possible on the platform as both have show improvements over their own WiiU predecessors. Yet I see too many people ignoring 1 to 1 comparisons for more apples to oranges. Zelda just needs more love and time, hopefully nintendo has balls to remaster and milk the title.

The system is good to go, but like Wii I see a lot of cowardice and incompetence in regards to this platform the next two years.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You are underestimating Fast RMX technical achievement, even if it's a simple futuristic racing game (therefore no open world) there is no racing game currently on phones that has the same graphical prowess.
It's am indie game and it shows but there is a reason DF called it "maybe the best looking portable game ever".

Best looking doesn't mean best on a technological level. That's what I was under this impression this was about?

Neo is a flashy game, but it's all on the surface. Zelda doesn't have the same gee whiz graphical bells and whistles on it's surface, but there's a lot more happening under the hood.

 

[bomblord1]

That's not the way I read it at all. He was saying no mobile game comes close to it, and it's a solid upgrade over the Wii U version.

Thanks got to it before I said it. They are not switch exclusive features they just prove it's not just a "simple racing game".

 

[Rodin]

Being 1080p and running 60fps, with nice textures isn't some technological marvel that outclasses what Zelda's doing under the hood.

I never claimed that. You claimed that Fast is a glorified mobile game and that simply isn't the case when mobile games fail to beat Wipeout 2048 on the Vita, which is like 2 gens behind Fast RMX.

Fast Neo was impressive on Wii U as well but they greatly improved resolution while also boosting lighting, effects and frame rate in the Switch version.

Are you smoking something? We have GTA5 which in it's various incarnations would give good insight in to a topic like this.

I disagree. GTA V had to cut back the impressive physics engine of GTA IV to achieve that level of graphics and the game always runs sub 30fps with objects that can pop in even after you crashed on them. Zelda didn't compromise on physics and its grass rendering and other stuff are unmatched on last gen machines. There may be some things that GTA does better, but overall Zelda is the most technologically impressive game released on gen 7 level of hardware, despite its drawbacks (unstable frame rate, image quality and many textures).

 

[LCGeek]

I disagree. GTA V had to cut back the impressive physics engine of GTA IV to achieve that level of graphics and the game always runs sub 30fps with objects that can pop in even after you crashed on them. Zelda didn't compromise on physics and its grass rendering and other stuff are unmatched on last gen machines. There may be some things that GTA does better, but overall Zelda is the most technologically impressive game released on gen 7 level of hardware, despite its drawbacks (unstable frame rate, image quality and many textures).

Zelda had to be cutback from it's E3 debut in various ways. While it's performance does better people have shown like any other game all it takes is the right nudging to tank it's performance. Mentioning zelda's physics when people have made clear examples of how it simple events or being in towns drops the performance easily makes that as bad as pop up you mention for GTA5.

However the idea the scope is the same is wrong. GTA5 in various sections that cannot be found in BOTW in terms of geometry is unmatched by any other openworld title that has basically come out sans Second Son on PS4 or stressing it on a PC. If zelda had similar lighting, textures and density I'd say it would be superior but it doesn't that's a technological fact.

The few things GTA5 does better is why when comparison come up like these I'm quick to remind people of what happened when crysis tried to come in from the pc and had one of the worst hack jobs done to it. Just like xenoblade there are some things zelda is good at but because of it's simplistic look or lighting its able to get away with quite a bit where as GTA5 on those consoles show it's better to work with your limits.

 

[Rodin]

Zelda had to cutback from E3. While it's performance does better people have shown like any other game all it takes is the right nudging to tank it's performance. Mentioning zelda's physics when people have made clear examples of how it simple events or being in towns drops the performance easily makes that as bad as pop up you mention.

However the idea the scope is the same is wrong. GTA5 in various sections that cannot be found in BOTW in terms of geometry is unmatched by any other openworld title that has basically come out sans Second Son on PS4 or stressing it on a PC. If zelda had similar lighting, textures and density I'd say it would be superior but it doesn't that's a technological fact.

The few things GTA5 does better is why when comparison come up like these I'm quick to remind people of what happened when crysis tried to come in from the pc and had one of the worst hack jobs done to it. Just like xenoblade there are some things zelda is good at but because of it's simplistic look or lighting its able to get away with quite a bit where as GTA5 on those consoles show it's better to work with your limits.

Zelda still has global illumination like GTA V, they changed the indoor lighting but i wouldn't really say it's a "cutback", and textures are bad on both titles, don't think that GTA has the PS4/X1 textures on last gen consoles lol. Some parts of GTA (the city) have tons of polygons for a last gen open world game but in Zelda there are areas like the Faron Woods that have possibly even more geometries than the busiest parts of GTA, and the country (which is still the largest part of the map) simply isn't comparable to Zelda's overworld.

And i'm talking about the Wii U version here. Switch also has a bigger frame rate advantage and runs at a higher res.

 

[LCGeek]

What? Zelda still has global illumination like GTA V, they changed the indoor lighting but i wouldn't really say it's a "cutback", and textures are bad on both titles. Some parts of GTA (the city) have tons of polygons for a last gen open world game but in Zelda there are areas like the Faron Woods that have possibly even more geometries than the busiest parts of GTA, and the country (which is still the largest part of the map) simply isn't comparable to Zelda's overworld.

GI solutions aren't the same and it really shows in some spots be it reflections or particles. Both titles feature bad textures however one title was developed to have a simple look so it wouldn't stress the gpu as much as if it been done more like GTA5 renders or any of the tech demos nintendo shows of zeldas like spaceworld 2000 and the first tech demo of zeldo for Wii U.

Once the emu for BOTW becomes fast and compatible enough wireframe extracts will show how simple it really is.

 

[Rodin]

Once the emu for BOTW becomes fast and compatible enough wireframe extracts will show how simple it really is.

Have you seen the overworld from a very high point, like the

Spoiler

Vah Medoh or the section before that

? I have the Switch version but i couldn't believe that was possible on Wii U. The world is made of tons and tons of complex structures that extends on several levels of altitude, the verticality of the level design is absolutely impressive and so is the number of polygons they used to make them, seeing it from the sky also highlights the insane draw distance. And i really don't think there's anything "simple" in the Faron Woods. You have no idea of how many trees, grass and other structures are in that area, it's another thing i never thought i'd see in an open world game on Wii U level of hardware.

Going back to things they do under the hood, GTA V also has shit AI, which was cut back from IV just like physics (and the game already runs bad as it is, imagine if it had those physics and ai). Breath of the Wild has possibly the most complex and varied routines i've ever seen in any game. All these things are taxing.

And reflections are nothing special in GTA, they only reflect static objects and are pretty blurry iirc. In Zelda they are in real time and have an impressive distance (insert gif of falling star reflecting in a pool of water miles away from Link).

 

[Lonely1]

"It's just a port"

So where exactly are the better looking and running games for Switch? The powerdifference between WiiU and Switch isn't that big that there is untapped power somewhere left completely unused.

3x the RAM and assets are the same between versions.

 

[Zombegoast]

Are you smoking something? We have GTA5 which in it's various incarnations would give good insight in to a topic like this.

Have you played GTA 5 recently? The physics, AI and interaction was a downgrade over from GTA 4. Then you have foliage which was absent on the Ps3/360 and were 2d sprites on the current gen system with little to no interaction.

meanwhile Botw has some form of interaction with physics. Every grass can be cut with small critters hiding in them. Then there is wind physics, buoyancy, kinetic energy, inertia, friction etc.

 

[LCGeek]

Have you seen the overworld from a very high point, like the

Spoiler

Vah Medoh or the section before that

? I have the Switch version but i couldn't believe that was possible on Wii U. The world is made of tons and tons of complex structures that extends on several levels of altitude, the verticality of the level design is absolutely impressive and so is the number of polygons they used to make them, seeing it from the sky also highlights the insane draw distance. And i really don't think there's anything "simple" in the Faron Woods. You have no idea of how many trees, grass and other structures are in that area, it's another thing i never thought i'd see in an open world game on Wii U level of hardware.

Yes I've commented on the game at other places and others have taken the same performance complaints I have. Been playing open world games across various platforms and the phrase "Level of detail" should be something you're familiar with. You can do a lot if you optimize and plan your game out, which isn't to detract from what they did, but it's not special considering others have done a similar level and well before this year. The presentation isn't the same so I find comments to be hollow comparing games of even a few shades higher of fidelity to one that basically gimps itself time and time again in order to achieve the similar result in it's own world.

Going back to things they do under the hood, GTA V also has shit AI, which was cut back from IV just like physics (and the game already runs bad as it is, imagine if it had those physics and ai). Breath of the Wild has possibly the most complex and varied routines i've ever seen in any game. All these things are taxing.

You seem to be the missing the reason why GTA5 would be taxing it's not due to complexity but the scale of running all the NPCs. That still costs performance regardless of complexity and last time I checked Cell was better than switch and what's in PS4/X1. The idea that GTA5 isn't taxing PS3 cpu requires a lot of leaps.

Have you played GTA 5 recently? The physics, AI and interaction was a downgrade over from GTA 4. Then you have foliage which was absent on the Ps3/360 and were 2d sprites on the current gen system with little to no interaction.

I'm quite aware of this and you can even check GTA4 mod posts where me and other users here at the site talk about car mods. This however doesn't discount what I mentioned. A downgrade isn't the same as nothing, which is basically what some are trying to paint. The scale of what they run isn't for free especially not on a console.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

This. It's a modern PSP with a novel video out. People should definitely view this as a portable first, console second type deal. In that regard, it's a damn awesome little machine. Nintendo is trying to have the "console experience" on the go nonsense branding that did nothing for Sony.

Which is hard to do when Nintendo is doing the opposite

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

4k Textures, 1080p, 60fps, Physically Based Rendering, among other things that Zelda is not doing.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-fast-rmx-showcases-switches-power-over-wii-u

4k textures?????

 

[bomblord1]

4k textures?????

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=905756

(About the 4K-8K textures) Yeah, streets took a lot of resolution. Tho biggest textures are used for the shadows.

 

[Ninja Dom]

AG Drive by ZORG on iOS.

https://appsto.re/gb/AfkdV.i

60 fps futuristic racer that looks very similar to Fast Racing Neo and Fast RMX. Playable on an Apple TV too. Runs at native resolution on a 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

I don't have any of the Fast games so how does AG Drive compare?

 

[darkazcura]

This. It's a modern PSP with a novel video out. People should definitely view this as a portable first, console second type deal. In that regard, it's a damn awesome little machine. Nintendo is trying to have the "console experience" on the go nonsense branding that did nothing for Sony.

Or I'll just view it as a hybrid first and second.

 

[Beerman462]

Curious about how the CPU stacks up against XB1/PS4.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

AG Drive by ZORG on iOS.

https://appsto.re/gb/AfkdV.i

60 fps futuristic racer that looks very similar to Fast Racing Neo and Fast RMX. Playable on an Apple TV too. Runs at native resolution on a 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

I don't have any of the Fast games so how does AG Drive compare?

We came a long way from light bike

 

[bomblord1]

AG Drive by ZORG on iOS.

https://appsto.re/gb/AfkdV.i

60 fps futuristic racer that looks very similar to Fast Racing Neo and Fast RMX. Playable on an Apple TV too. Runs at native resolution on a 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

I don't have any of the Fast games so how does AG Drive compare?

I mean even to my untrained eye you can clearly see the texture resolution and lighting are an excessive multi-generational leap above what you are seeing there.

Geometry as well unless it's just an issue with perspective that city is literally a flat texture.

 

[Zombegoast]

Curious about how the CPU stacks up against XB1/PS4.

Wii U's difficulty was always blamed by it's CPU. Which is probably why Project Cars was cancelled. Meanwhile we're hearing that the system is much easier to develop for than the Ps4.

 

[Oregano]

AG Drive came up in a past thread and honestly resolution aside it's closer to FAST Racing League than to NEO or RMX.

 

[Ninja Dom]

I mean even to my untrained eye you can clearly see the texture resolution and lighting are an excessive multi-generational leap above what you are seeing there.

Geometry as well unless it's just an issue with perspective that city is literally a flat texture.

AG Drive came up in a past thread and honestly resolution aside it's closer to FAST Racing League than to NEO or RMX.

Cool. This was just the closest mobile game I could find to Fast RMX and was interested in the comparison to it.

 

[Rodin]

The idea that GTA5 isn't taxing PS3 cpu requires a lot of leaps.

It's a good thing that no one said that then. What i was saying is that you can't ignore other taxing stuff BotW is doing under the hood.

And you still didn't address the country looking much worse than Zelda's overworld despite being much simpler and without all the NPCs you're using as your main argument (like if Zelda doesn't have them, with much better ai, more complex schedule and you can't actually interact with them instead of having hundreds of puppets walking in the city doing nothing).

AG Drive by ZORG on iOS.

https://appsto.re/gb/AfkdV.i

60 fps futuristic racer that looks very similar to Fast Racing Neo and Fast RMX. Playable on an Apple TV too. Runs at native resolution on a 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

I don't have any of the Fast games so how does AG Drive compare?

Looks closer to Fast Racing League in HD on Dolphin or Wipeout 2048.

I believe RR3 looks better than that but it's still Vita level.

 

[bomblord1]

AG Drive came up in a past thread and honestly resolution aside it's closer to FAST Racing League than to NEO or RMX.

Honestly I think even that is being generous

vs

Obviously the resolution it is running at is impressive (the Ipad pro 12" is 2x 1080p) but outside of that it's not really doing anything. At the risk of sounding hyperbolic from a texture, lighting, and geometry standpoint I would say the PS2 is a more apt comparison

vs PS2 Wipeout

 

[Kilrogg]

Except Nintendo is putting their money where their mouth is, and the launch title for this portable machine is also their most ambitious home console game ever.

Basically.
People don't care about God of War: Chains of Olympus on the PSP or Uncharted: Golden Abyss on the Vita. They're second-rate spin-off games in series that have better games on all fronts, including graphics. Sony thought that would be enough and the portable factor would make up for their shortcomings, but that's not how it works apparently.

With something like BotW, you're literally getting the latest mainline Zelda game, which is also the most ambitious and technically accomplished in the entire series. And you literally can't get it anywhere else, except as a (slightly) inferior version on last-gen hardware.

Also, it makes much more sense for Nintendo to market the system as a hybrid home console rather than a hybrid handheld:
1) Conceptually, it sounds more impressive than just "here's your handheld; btw you can hook it up to your TV"
2) Tying into JoshuaJSlone's point: the system is technically advanced enough for most people to think it provides console-quality performance in 2017. And there is no better showcase of that than Zelda (and Skyrim). Large open-world games with decent graphics and framerates used to be unthinkable not so long ago. BotW tells consumers "that's it, you get state-of-the-art console gaming, but you can finally also bring it on-the-go. It's magic!" It doesn't matter than people on GAF can tell the system is inferior to the PS4. To the average consumers, it's almost identical.

This brings its value up considerably. I wouldn't be surprised if, to many people, the Switch already represented the future (much like the Wii did back in the day) compared to "mere regular home consoles" like the PS4 or even the PS4 Pro. "What, you can't even bring the system on-the-go? What is this, 2016? LOL"

[EDIT] Also, yeah, ZORG isn't that impressive outside of resolution. Granted, it's 2 years old, and mobile gaming sure has come a long way, but it's still pretty ugly technically when compared to even the PS3 Wipeout games. We should get comparison shots of FAST Racing League running on Dolphin at 4K. It really does look like that game. The cars especially.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I never claimed that. You claimed that Fast is a glorified mobile game and that simply isn't the case when mobile games fail to beat Wipeout 2048 on the Vita, which is like 2 gens behind Fast RMX.

No you didn't make the claim, but it's one I've been disagreeing with.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=232301693

And yeah, Neo is a glorified mobile game in my eyes. It's more flashier sure, but it's the same simple futuristic racing game my phone does very well. Much like Infinity Blade there's not much going on under the hood so the resources are spent on eye candy. It doesn't match what Zelda's doing and thus isn't technologically more impressive.

 

[Hermii]

No you didn't make the claim, but it's one I've been disagreeing with.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=232301693

And yeah, Neo is a glorified mobile game in my eyes. It's more flashier sure, but it's the same simple futuristic racing game my phone does very well. Much like Infinity Blade there's not much going on under the hood so the resources are spent on eye candy. It doesn't match what Zelda's doing and thus isn't technologically more impressive.

Mobile tech is nothing to sneeze at. Both fast and botw could probably be ported to an iPhone 7 if you see past control limitations, the switch uses 2 year old mobile tech,

 

[killatopak]

As developers they are actually. Their hardware are limiting their team's skills and ambition at that point. Just look at Zelda.

I think you could argue their art design is industry leading. Honestly I am constantly blown away by the vistas in botw.

I have all systems and a high end pc, with a Vive. I think the last game that impressed me in this way visually was last of us remastered. I am amazed what this little device can do. I use it on TV mainly.

For me I think I've moved past having the fanciest graphics and towards how that power is utilized

In portable mode you get greater than Wii U power at 1/3 to 1/5 the power draw...and the Wii U was only drawing like 30 watts at load. That's just nuts!

When viewed from the sense of power efficiency it really is amazing what this thing can do.

What I meant is something deeper. Something like the checkerboarding in Killzone Shadowfall wherein it was never done or heard of before the devs themselves told us how they were doing it. Nintendo is not revolutionary in any way among their graphics peers. Something that makes you "wow, how did they do that". I agree that what they have in common with those that are pioneers is that they push the hardware to the limit using obfuscation like art direction to show the illusion of something greater at work.

 

[Rodin]

Mobile tech is nothing to sneeze at. Both fast and botw could probably be ported to an iPhone 7 if you see past control limitations, the switch uses 2 year old mobile tech,

Lol

See past resources used by iOS, thermal issues and battery life too and you're good to go

Meaning, no, you can't.

I agree that what they have in common with those that are pioneers is that they push the hardware to the limit using obfuscation like art direction to show the illusion of something greater at work.

What does this even mean.

And guerrilla didn't invent temporal upscaling, they just have a pretty good solution. So does Ubisoft. So does Crytek. List goes on.

 

[Tripolygon]

No you didn't make the claim, but it's one I've been disagreeing with.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=232301693

And yeah, Neo is a glorified mobile game in my eyes. It's more flashier sure, but it's the same simple futuristic racing game my phone does very well. Much like Infinity Blade there's not much going on under the hood so the resources are spent on eye candy. It doesn't match what Zelda's doing and thus isn't technologically more impressive.

Firstly, lets stop this nonsense. These games have been console staples since the inception of this genre. F-Zero, Wipeout etc etc.

Secondly, you have no idea what either game is doing under the hood. You have no idea how complex or simple said things are, or whether they are taxing. Its like comparing a game like Forza Horizon to BOTW and concluding BOTW is doing more under the hood because Forza Horizon doesn't have fire propagation etc etc. It is silly.

 

[orioto]

I mean even to my untrained eye you can clearly see the texture resolution and lighting are an excessive multi-generational leap above what you are seeing there.

Geometry as well unless it's just an issue with perspective that city is literally a flat texture.

Problem is every Fast RMX screenshot is full of motion blur and effect.. It looks like an early 2000 bullshot.

 

[killatopak]

Lol

See past resources used by iOS, thermal issues and battery life too and you're good to go

Meaning, no, you can't.


What does this even mean.

And guerrilla didn't invent temporal upscaling, they just have a pretty good solution. So does Ubisoft. So does Crytek. List goes on.

Make Zelda Botw not have cartoonish graphics and make it more realistic and it will look ugly.

They made it mainstream. Apple didn't invent touchscreen but they were lauded for making it popular.

 

[anchorman128]

Obviously if we are going to play semantics, in very simplistic terms, yes it's a mobile device that has a TV out. However, I don't know why people are even debating the hybrid aspect of the switch. Nearly every mobile device phones, tablets, psvita can connect to a TV output for output. However I do not know of a single one that can use the AC unit to pull more power, cool itself, and run at higher clocks for over twice the compute performance and increased resolution.

Does docking the system allow for more compute power and resolution than is allowed by the device in mobile form? Yes? Well then by definition it is a hybrid. Different capabilities in different form factors that are not reasonably possible with engineering constraints strictly in mobile.

 

[wonderful103]

Mobile tech is nothing to sneeze at. Both fast and botw could probably be ported to an iPhone 7 if you see past control limitations, the switch uses 2 year old mobile tech,

I mean... no.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Firstly, lets stop this nonsense. These games have been console staples since the inception of this genre. F-Zero, Wipeout etc etc.

Secondly, you have no idea what either game is doing under the hood. You have no idea how complex or simple said things are, or whether they are taxing. Its like comparing a game like Forza Horizon to BOTW and concluding BOTW is doing more under the hood because Forza Horizon doesn't have fire propagation etc etc. It is silly.

Stop what nonsense? It sounds like it's hard for people to accept that these "console staples' can be replicated really well on modern mobile platforms.

BotW probably is doing more under the hood then Forza as well, although Forza is at least doing more then Neo. Does Neo have damage modeling or do you just bump off everything while your vehicle remains pristine?

 

[orioto]

What I meant is something deeper. Something like the checkerboarding in Killzone Shadowfall wherein it was never done or heard of before the devs themselves told us how they were doing it. Nintendo is not revolutionary in any way among their graphics peers. Something that makes you "wow, how did they do that". I agree that what they have in common with those that are pioneers is that they push the hardware to the limit using obfuscation like art direction to show the illusion of something greater at work.

And actually that's wrong i think. It's not said enough how BotW, beyond the scale and teh physics etc.. is doing next gen things graphic wise in many occasions. It's not said enough how the lights from link weapon are reflected in the shrine's wall. I remember this kind of thing was actually really impressive in Kill Zone Shadow Fall, but on PS4.. I remeber to that everyone was impressed by the reacting grass in UC4, which is in BotW. The game is doing many next gen things on a last gen hardware.

And yeah, Nintendo is amazing and absolutely in Naughty Dog / Gorilla tier regarding graphic tricks, i can tell you. People don't notice it cause they are always using late hardware, but what they do with it is insane. And i can go back to a certain Wave Race on N64. MK8 was doing some crazy next gen shit with light and color rendering to.

 

[anchorman128]

Mobile tech is nothing to sneeze at. Both fast and botw could probably be ported to an iPhone 7 if you see past control limitations, the switch uses 2 year old mobile tech,

Sure, if you ignore the control limitations. Run at sub native resolution, ignore throttling, tolerate 1 hr battery life. Obviously the a57 has been outclassed handily by both Apple ARM chips and others like A72. However, when it comes to GPU performance, X1 still easily holds the mobile crown.

 

[killatopak]

And actually that's wrong i think. It's not said enough how BotW, beyond the scale and teh physics etc.. is doing next gen things graphic wise in many occasions. It's not said enough how the lights from link weapon are reflected in the shrine's wall. I remember this kind of thing was actually really impressive in Kill Zone Shadow Fall, but on PS4.. I remeber to that everyone was impressed by the reacting grass in UC4, which is in BotW. The game is doing many next gen things on a last gen hardware.

And yeah, Nintendo is amazing and absolutely in Naughty Dog / Gorilla tier regarding graphic tricks, i can tell you. People don't notice it cause they are always using late hardware, but what they do with it is insane. And i can go back to a certain Wave Race on N64. MK8 was doing some crazy next gen shit with light and color rendering to.

That's exactly what I said in the later parts of my post?

Just that they're not industry leading but they're on par on tech wizardry with what they got.

 

[Kilrogg]

And yeah, Nintendo is amazing and absolutely in Naughty Dog / Gorilla tier regarding graphic tricks, i can tell you. People don't notice it cause they are always using late hardware, but what they do with it is insane. And i can go back to a certain Wave Race on N64. MK8 was doing some crazy next gen shit with light and color rendering to.

Donkey Kong to be developed by Naughty Dog confirmed.
"Guerilla", mon cher Orioto .

 

[Padinn]

What I meant is something deeper. Something like the checkerboarding in Killzone Shadowfall wherein it was never done or heard of before the devs themselves told us how they were doing it. Nintendo is not revolutionary in any way among their graphics peers. Something that makes you "wow, how did they do that". I agree that what they have in common with those that are pioneers is that they push the hardware to the limit using obfuscation like art direction to show the illusion of something greater at work.

I think is disagree to a mild extent. Some of what was done on Wii U was impressive given the hardware limitations, often at 60 God locked. Mario 3D world is one I remember.

Honestly, and I may be a bit unfair, but I have PS4 Pro and it's been disappointing that so few devs seem capable of delivering improved experiences on it (I'm at 1080p). I haven't played zero dawn yet, but it has felt to me like there is a lot of untapped potential on xb1/ps4.

I suppose the way for me to put it is that ps4/xb1 have not yet met my expectation for graphics prowess, while switch exceeded them. My pro is drawing 10x the wattage at load compared to my switch.

Many moons ago I studied electrical engineering, which might be what's impacting my views.

That said I love all my gaming systems.

 

[Hermii]

Sure, if you ignore the control limitations. Run at sub native resolution, ignore throttling, tolerate 1 hr battery life. Obviously the a57 has been outclassed handily by both Apple ARM chips and others like A72. However, when it comes to GPU performance, X1 still easily holds the mobile crown.

Not easily. An iPhone 7 isn't that much weaker gpu wise and doesn't throttle much.

Ok, if you say 7s.