I don't see how this is deadnaming, it's just telling you a context to a character.
I dont see it either, it's background telling.
I don't see how this is deadnaming, it's just telling you a context to a character.
Seeing how the usual suspects have come out to play, figured it was time to dust this off.
I dont see it either, it's background telling.
Yeah the trans character is definitely an issue. Would have rather they'd have just not tried than try and end up with that.
As a gay man I'm used to this, sadly. I DO expect better from Bioware so there's no excuse, but it's something I'm eminently used too. It sucks that apparently the only gay options aren't actually developed characters either just randoms with canned faces. Supremely disappointing.Kind of wish we had separated these topics into different threads. I'm not trans but as someone who has spent a lot of time with trans men and women professionally: the deadnaming is clearly a well-intentioned misstep. They should have run that dialogue by a trans person. But it's pretty important to differentiate between malicious deadnaming and deadnaming born of misunderstanding and this is clearly an example of the latter. In my personal view - and I defer to trans gamers if they are more offended here - this is less a problem for being transphobic and more a problem for just being a portrayal of a trans person that doesn't ring true. I don't know a single transgender man or woman who would casually drop their original name, especially not with a stranger. I find it more unrealistic than offensive.
The male gay romances thing I actually find considerably more problematic. It means they made conscious choices that shortchange gamers of one sexuality at a very high level in the design process. No, I'm not suggesting they sat around and twirled their mustaches and said "that'll show those pesky gays", but a lot of people were involved in choosing how romances work, and they knowingly set up a system that severely limits certain kinds of role playing. The fact that they have more abundant options for lesbians is especially worthy of an eye roll - it suggests those romances, too, are there for the straight men they appear to have had in mind throughout the design process.
And the outcome is kind of sad for gamers of any type - games are better when they have an expansive set of play options, and reflect an expansive world view. I, for one, love playing RPG romances of all gender configurations. If it's done well, I think it can expand my horizons and introduce me to a cool new perspective. When a game is so clearly designed from a single perspective, for a single audience - straight males - it hurts the entire work, for everyone.
I understand the arguments against Mass Effect 3's "everyone is potentially bisexual" solution, but I ultimately find it to be a far better approach. In-universe, I welcomed the idea of a future with more openness to sexual fluidity. And in terms of gameplay, I welcomed having more options.
If you're going to roll that back to give characters overt and specific sexualities, I respect that. It could be a bold choice, to have some characters reject your advances for that reason, and others hit on you and force you to reject their advances. But if you're going to make that leap, my feeling is you'd better be up for the challenge of writing it into the characters sensitively. And you'd better damn well be ready to have a meaningful number of options across different orientations.
Yeah the trans character is definitely an issue. Would have rather they'd have just not tried than try and end up with that.
As a gay man I'm used to this, sadly. I DO expect better from Bioware so there's no excuse, but it's something I'm eminently used too. It sucks that apparently the only gay options aren't actually developed characters either just randoms with canned faces. Supremely disappointing.
I'll never understand peoples obsessions with sex in Bioware games.
I enjoyed Mass Effect and DAI so much because they just allow you to be gay and not have that be all about fucking.Being LGBT+ is about much more than merely sex.
Yep if you can't do something right don't do it at all.
The male gay romances thing I actually find considerably more problematic. It means they made conscious choices that shortchange gamers of one sexuality at a very high level in the design process. No, I'm not suggesting they sat around and twirled their mustaches and said "that'll show those pesky gays", but a lot of people were involved in choosing how romances work, and they knowingly set up a system that severely limits certain kinds of role playing. The fact that they have more abundant options for lesbians is especially worthy of an eye roll - it suggests those romances, too, are there for the straight men they appear to have had in mind throughout the design process.
Yeah the trans character is definitely an issue. Would have rather they'd have just not tried than try and end up with that.
Can you explain that to me, because I'm not seeing it.
This isn't snark, I'm genuinely curious as to why accidentally calling someone by the name you've called them their entire life and apologizing is expressing negative viewpoints and opinions on transexuality.
The trans character is offensive because it propagates a hurtful idea... but yeah, the lack of male homosexual options is the problem, not the achievement.
I dont see it either, it's background telling.
Yeah the trans character is definitely an issue. Would have rather they'd have just not tried than try and end up with that.
2 out of 7 romance options being m/m seems pretty good to me.
Plays a bit into the "all women are bisexual" narrative more than anything which is more problematic imo.
It's 2 out of 10 if I've counted correctly, not 2 out of 7 (though I'm not entirely certain which of those 10 are full romances and which are flings). But like I've said, it's not just the number (though gay men having less options than any other group and straight women only having three to straight men's five isn't great), it's a multitude of smaller problems which, on their own, wouldn't necessarily be a big deal, but put together leave a very sour taste in my mouth. Again:
- No M/M squadmate romance (squadmates generally get more dialogue/character development, etc. plus you get to take them on missions, obviously)
- All M/M romance options have character creator faces rather than unique ones
- M/M romances have far less content than many of the non-M/M ones
- M/M sex scenes are fade-to-black with only above-the-waist nudity, whereas many of the non-M/M sex scenes are longer, fully animated and show naked butts and breasts.
- Gay Scott has the least romance options out of any gender/orientation combination
- Gay men are the only players who'll need to play as a different gender/orientation to get that romance achievement
Sounds like they half assed the same sex relationships then. Probably a last minute addition?
I hold no truck with them for not putting the same amount of effort into giving both gay and straight characters the same treatment. It would be nice, but for a role playing game like this its to be expected. Besides, I don't think any gay men I know would mind too much having to have their avatar awkwardly flirt with an npc resembling a female in order to get an achievement.
Sounds like they half assed the same sex relationships then. Probably a last minute addition?
I hold no truck with them for not putting the same amount of effort into giving both gay and straight characters the same treatment. It would be nice, but for a role playing game like this its to be expected. Besides, I don't think any gay men I know would mind too much having to have their avatar awkwardly flirt with an npc resembling a female in order to get an achievement.
Listen, I believe in equal rights and representation in all things as much as anyone, but, no, it is absolutely NOT important for a videogame. This is especially true when the subject currently up for discussion isn't even a key focus of the game to begin with. Just because romancing or relationships are possible is not itself an automatic mandate that every type of relationship be represented. I ultimately don't know yet because I don't have the game of course, but even if they didn't make same sex relationships of any type possible, that, too, wouldn't somehow (at least in my view) be evidence of some kind of insensitivity or discrimination. If the developer decides it isn't something they want to explore in their game , that's very much their right. Same as if someone directing a movie decided they only wish to focus on one style of relationship.
I mean, you could say lesbians were left out or underrepresented in Moonlight. Where does it really stop?
...sigh
I can't believe some people still cannot see how deadnaming is terrible and such an asshole thing to do
Listen, I believe in equal rights and representation in all things as much as anyone, but, no, it is absolutely NOT important for a videogame. This is especially true when the subject currently up for discussion isn't even a key focus of the game to begin with. Just because romancing or relationships are possible is not itself an automatic mandate that every type of relationship be represented. I ultimately don't know yet because I don't have the game of course, but even if they didn't make same sex relationships of any type possible, that, too, wouldn't somehow (at least in my view) be evidence of some kind of insensitivity or discrimination. If the developer decides it isn't something they want to explore in their game , that's very much their right. Same as if someone directing a movie decided they only wish to focus on one style of relationship.
I mean, you could say lesbians were left out or underrepresented in Moonlight. Where does it really stop?
Earlier this morning, I saw some gay friends quite upset over the gay romances in MEA. At the time, I still believed Jaal was bi, and was thinking that while it sucked, at least there was one gay option in the party and it was the hot alien dude.
Turns out not only is Jaal straight, but a trans character just deadnames herself? Fuck me dead, BioWare...what happened here?
Too hard to animate m/m scenes :lolSo I've heard from someone that one of the two half-arsed M/M romances doesn't even have a proper culmination scene. It's hearsay for now, obviously, but if that's true... SMH
I missed that post and now I'm ROFLing at it lmao
Having a trans character handed poorly is better than a world where no trans character exists, like Breath of the Wild
Wat?Having a trans character handed poorly is beter than a world where no trans character exists, like Breath of the Wild
I don't know man. I mean, if I introduce myself to someone by saying, "Hi I'm Alex. I'm straight but people thought I looked like a girl so they called me Lexi. But that's not who I am. I'm glad I got to meet you."I was shocked that we're actually berating a dev that tries to be inclusive of so many different types of people, then I remembered,
Have you played BOTW?Having a trans character handed poorly is beter than a world where no trans character exists, like Breath of the Wild
Wat?
I don't know man. I mean, if I introduce myself to someone by saying, "Hi I'm Alex. I'm straight but people thought I looked like a girl so they called me Lexi. But that's not who I am. I'm glad I got to meet you."
Wouldn't that be a little weird?
In the end it's bad writing. Almost like an afterthought.
Straight male Inquisitors only had 2 options in Dragon Age and only one of them was a party member. Seems possible to me.Do you think BioWare would have done the same thing by accident for straight male Ryders? Seems unlikely.
Or it's like we can be critical of something.I was shocked that we're actually berating a dev that tries to be inclusive of so many different types of people, just because they didn't do it 100% right, then I remembered,
Can you speak to this more?
Wat?
Have you played BOTW?
I was shocked that we're actually berating a dev that tries to be inclusive of so many different types of people, just because they didn't do it 100% right, then I remembered,
- No M/M squadmate romance (squadmates generally get more dialogue/character development, etc. plus you get to take them on missions, obviously)
- All M/M romance options have character creator faces rather than unique ones
- M/M romances have far less content than many of the non-M/M ones
- M/M sex scenes are fade-to-black with only above-the-waist nudity, whereas many of the non-M/M sex scenes are longer, fully animated and show naked butts and breasts.
- Gay Scott has the least romance options out of any gender/orientation combination
- Gay men are the only players who'll need to play as a different gender/orientation to get that romance achievement
I was shocked that we're actually berating a dev that tries to be inclusive of so many different types of people, just because they didn't do it 100% right, then I remembered,
To be fair the definitions given in the OP don't actually fit what's shown of the game. Some people might find it unrealistic for a trans person to talk this way ~200 years in the future on a spaceship in another galaxy, surrounded by aliens -- and that's fine -- but it doesn't fit any sort of classic definition of deadnaming (which yes, is cruel, and something done to other people). It's not great writing by any means, but it's hardly impossible that this totally fake fantasy character could be comfortable enough to mention their distant history. I imagine the intention was actually to show how progressive the future is, that nobody is concerned or upset by this transition so there's not the same trauma that might be associated with it today. (Reminds me a bit of Sya in Guild Wars 2, in that sense.) It's clumsy as all hell, but this is Bioware here.I can't believe some people still cannot see how deadnaming is terrible and such an asshole thing to do
Not everyone has to be gay. The world is dynamic, randomization can be unfair.
Whoever made that trans thing is fucking stupid tho.