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[Decado]

Nah. Doesn't make sense for publishers. People just need to re-examine their purchase price points.

I transitioned to pc-only in 2012 and had no issue adjusting.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Uhh what do you think a EULA is?

A bunch of rules that are completely invalid if they clash with consumer protection laws. They are not legally binding if they contain illegal clauses.

 

[Joelstinton14]

How would this even work? Just briefly thinking about it , this would leave many developers in a precarious situation. The only way it would work is that there was a limited amount of licenses made available , but then that just puts consumers who want to buy the game at a disadvantage too.

 

[Somnid]

Under european law, can companies legally prevent you from reselling an identifier with entitlements as long as it was purchased? For instance, a gym membership, school id or plane ticket in your name?

 

[Boss Man]

If someone was smart they would implement a system like that to get people into digital and then revert back once people had abandoned physical.

 

[Alethebeer]

Under european law, can companies legally prevent you from reselling an identifier with entitlements as long as it was purchased? For instance, a gym membership, school id or plane ticket in your name?

That's a different subject matter. Those are not licenses.

 

[Gunmonkey36]

So, we know this isn't gonna happen right? Like the industry has no reason to ever do this, and I'd be shocked to see a government attempt to enforce some sort of program for this.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

You choose convenience instead of rights, but learn to live with it because there's very little chance that you will be able to resell your digital games anytime soon.

Yeah. "Why would the publishers want this?", they ask. Who gives a shit? Being able to resell goods is a basic consumer right, it should be illegal to place restrictions on it.

You should because by going all digital you give them all the power.

Remember that they're selling you a licence, it was harder to enforce when games were only physical but right now they can prevent you for reselling your games like every industry does.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Besides, it consistently boggles my mind how gamers are likely the only group of people who seem ok with less consumer rights and some are even fucking eager for it.

Yeah. "Why would the publishers want this?", they ask. Who gives a shit? Being able to resell goods is a basic consumer right, it should be illegal to place restrictions on it.

So, we know this isn't gonna happen right?

That's what people used to say about refunding digital games, then Steam Refunds happened. I think it will happen.

 

[Somnid]

That's a different subject matter. Those are not licenses.

They are indeed licenses that allow you to use something. I'm just wondering how those are treated. It makes sense that the identifier could be sold (an id, a ticket #, a digital account) but if you cannot validate the identifier (license was to somnid with my date of birth, but you try to redeem as Alethebeer and the date of birth doesn't match) then would that run afoul of consumer rights protections because even though I sold it you can't use it?

 

[Lionel Richie]

Yeah. "Why would the publishers want this?", they ask. Who gives a shit? Being able to resell goods is a basic consumer right, it should be illegal to place restrictions on it.

Exactly! If there is no option besides a digital future, and I would hate that because I love looking at game boxes and how they look in my shelf, but if there is no option then we flat out shouldn't accept the way it's been handled now. If you can't at all resell the thing you bought for no logical reason (like you can't sell an apple you have eaten because who would buy your shit), then you don't own it. If you pay money for the rights to play a game instead of owning it, you got bamboozled and it's okay if people are okay with that, but it's not as okay to not want any options other than that.

 

[PSFan]

I think retail B&M stores will go away before retail does. With places like Amazon offering free release delivery on both hardware and software preorders, there's no reason to line up at a store overnight. And it seems like more and more people switch to online purchasing as time goes on.

 

[AlStrong]

Maybe it would only work if one had to sell it to another user directly (ala steam community market), with some of the proceeds going to the publisher & online store (Steam, Origin, uPlay etc).

 

[jroc74]

Music retail isn't even 100% dead yet.

Enough said.

And music is waaaay older than games. Which also went thru multiple format changes.

Devil's Advocate time....didnt MS try to do this with some of the orig XBO policies?

 

[Lupin the Third]

Lots of people batting for the publishers and not their own rights as a consumer. Where's that AAA Ether post when we need it?

 

[Lomax]

We don't really need a way to resell individual games, but we do need legal support for the legal transfer of digital libraries of all sorts, whether via will or purchase or gift. It should be perfectly legal to bequeath an iTunes account or a World of Warcraft account or a Steam account or anything like that.

 

[Jon of the Wired]

I don't think resell for digital games is ever going to happen. More price conscious gamers, are unfortunately just going to have to make a choice between buying the game on day one for the full price and waiting for a sale.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Reselling games is what needs to end, and will greatly help the industry when it does. If you can't afford games without trading in your old ones, maybe reconsider your purchases.

I just threw up a little in my mouth. Should you be barred from selling a car? Some furniture? Your house?

 

[Undead Fantasy]

I really hope none of this shit is ever an issue any time soon. I'm still mourning the loss of physical manuals.

Besides, it consistently boggles my mind how gamers are likely the only group of people who seem ok with less consumer rights and some are even fucking eager for it. No, of course I don't need the physical thing and who the fuck cares about the concept of ownership, please let me have an all digital future for no fucking added benefit at all and the privilege of mega massive corporations making even more money off my interests.

It confuses me to no end as well.

There's 0 positives from retail going away.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Lots of people batting for the publishers and not their own rights as a consumer. Where's that AAA Ether post when we need it?

Lots of people empowered the publishers by giving up their rights by going digital over physical.

 

[Delusibeta]

Green Man Gaming tried this, by which I mean they gave store credit if you "traded in" your games that you bought from them (by which I mean you surrendered your rights to play the games in question). Didn't work, and they found that doing upfront discounts worked better for them.

 

[see5harp]

The first step is pricing them better. I don't mind buying digital when the price is low enough to warrant the lack of resale.

 

[chillybright]

Can you even resell your iTunes library?

 

[farisr]

Physical/retail games are not going to go away for a very very very long time, if ever.

When the music industry still has a big physical presence in the age of instant streaming of millions of songs being available which was preceeded by a decade of 3-5mb mp3 files that could be bought individually and downloaded really quickly. Despite all that, it wasn't until last year that digital music revenue finally surpassed physical for the first time.

Games just growing larger and larger in size is going to ensure that retail is pretty much never going away, unless there's some sort of big worldwide intitiative that happens which brings very affordable internet with blazingly fast speeds and no usage limitations across the world.

 

[redcrayon]

the music industry has mostly done away with retail and it's doing just fine without the potential for reselling.
.

Has it? Virtually every album still comes out on cd here in the UK, HMV and Amazon sell millions of discs a year on a format thirty years old, with vinyl sales going up. The future is digital but it's going to take a while before physical formats disappear.

I'm one of those old people who reads the sleeve notes and uploads the cd into my music library before putting it on the shelf.

What'll kill physical discs for me is that new laptops no longer having cd drives.

 

[Silvawuff]

As consumers of digital media, we do have the power to change the infrastructure if we stop supporting it. Only buy games super cheap or don't support DRM-based digital media.

I really like buying games from GOG or Humble because even if those sites upended, I would still have the game and be able to play it down the line.

 

[Hip Hop]

Nah, console just needs better prices.

There's a reason why I don't care or think about resell when it comes to my PC digital games. The prices there are how they should be.

Consoles need to adapt the PC market model.

 

[D4Danger]

Microsoft has a questionnaire thing last year that asked if you would like a programme where you could sell back digital games for 10% of the purchase price.

I mean it's not great but it could be a start. They haven't actually done it yet but at least someone is thinking about it I guess.

edit: this http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1198729

 

[SatoAilDarko]

See the difference is a used game is fundamentally different from a new game.

A "used" digital game would be exactly the same as a "new" digital game. Why would they allow you to sell a game for cheaper than the price they set and let you get the money. It's insanity.

 

[Megatron]

I agree that this needs to happen, but it's going to take legal action to make it happen. Companies are never going to do it voluntarily.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Unlike physical games, there is no maximum quantity of what can be produced and there is zero cost associated with producing more copies of a digitally-distributed game. Physical copies can degrade over time, digital copies can't. Physical releases become scarce and availability becomes limited over time, hence why copies of old NES/SNES games can fetch hundreds of dollars. Digital games are available forever (as long as they don't get delisted, which is rare). Every copy is mint forever.

GameStop can't produce a physical version of a game out of thin air. Hence it has value. Digital stores can and will produce an infinite amount of versions from thin air. Hence it has no value. There's just nothing to resell here!

 

[valkyre]

And a way to play them if you are some hipster nostalgia dude like me who often boots his PSOne to replay MGS1...

 

[shanew21]

Ironically, this was Microsoft's initial Xbox One plan. A way to re-sell digital licenses of games.

The issue was nobody was ready for that yet.

 

[The Faceless Master]

retail isn't going anywhere.

people can just buy a Fire Stick from Amazon.com and have it in two days but they continue to go to retail shops every day asking if they sell them and then if they/re in stock.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

Lots of people batting for the publishers and not their own rights as a consumer. Where's that AAA Ether post when we need it?

must be corporate shills/ballwashers.

retail going away is not a good thing, despite the convenience of dd

 

[jdmonmou]

It doesn't really make sense to resell digital games since there is an unlimited quantity. What they could do is have a rental service.

 

[Sad Affleck]

See the difference is a used game is fundamentally different from a new game.

A "used" digital game would be exactly the same as a "new" digital game. Why would they allow you to sell a game for cheaper than the price they set and let you get the money. It's insanity.

I have a counterpoint to that but first I have to ask: Couldn't you make the exact same argument about Steam Refunds? "Why would they allow you to play the game for two hours and get your money back if you didn't like it?" The answer is the same in both cases. Because it is within the customer's rights to request a refund and to resell something that he owns. These are fundamental rights that can't be handwaved away because of a different content delivery method.

 

[ElNino]

See the difference is a used game is fundamentally different from a new game.

A "used" digital game would be exactly the same as a "new" digital game. Why would they allow you to sell a game for cheaper than the price they set and let you get the money. It's insanity.

The only difference between a game bought from a digital store and a retail copy (at least for PS4 and XB1), is that the retail disc is the license itself. The game, as it resides on your console, is identical and both run exactly the same.

A used digital game and used retail disc should be exactly with respect to their operation. The condition of the case/disc itself is the only difference, but with (almost) no manuals anymore and with games not running off the disc, the difference is basically nothing to most people.

 

[FinalAres]

I used to re-sell everything. Not any more. It doesn't even feel like a loss. When I'm buying something it's mine, permanently. It does mean I'm more picky with my games though *goes to play FFXIII*

 

[Haly]

I have a counterpoint to that but first I have to ask: Couldn't you make the exact same argument about Steam Refunds? "Why would they allow you to play the game for two hours and get your money back if you didn't like it?"

1. It increases the attraction of Steam as a content delivery platform

2. It's really good PR

3. It solves one of Steam's fundamental problems which is a lack of rigorous screening processes for games and offloads some the responsibility to consumers. Game don't work? Get a refund. No longer our problem.

4. It puts some financial pressure on developers to actually deliver working, substantial games as opposed to lazy asset flips which was another problem Steam was having. Their changes to greenlight and attaching a reasonable but slightly prohibitive initial cost to it is part of the same strategy. Either way, they're automating the management of Steam's library to make it more consistent and attractive to consumers.

Reselling keys... Steam could do this but it'd be motivated by something completely different than why refunds exist now.

 

[HefferKnot]

The thing is when it comes to console games, the games are tied to the console(to the manufacturer and iteration of the console). When comes the time to jump to the new generation the majority of gamers sell the old one, meaning you cant keep or sell your digital games. You can sell your 2012 ipod and buy the 2017 ipod keeping your music collection.Works the same for pc.Not so on consoles

 

[comshoplesce]

People gotta buy retail more, cheaper most times + resell value + you can buy preowned.

With digital only we're d00med.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

I think some games would make more profit, if they'd stop selling it digitally after a few years (when the price is only 4USD or so anyway because the interest is very low anyway) and you could only buy the game "used" from other steam users and steam and the publisher would take 10-20%.

There probably aren't any models/simulations of how a thing like that would go, hard to say.

 

[Aggie CMD]

Digital stores will definitely allow you to sell-back your licenses eventually. I'm sure they are working on it right now. Just don't expect to get cash back. You'll get credit back for that store. Think about Xbox Live Rewards or My Nintendo where you get points up front for purchasing a game. Same thing expect you'll get points for relinquishing your license.

 

[Sad Affleck]

1. It increases the attraction of Steam as a content delivery platform

2. It's really good PR

3. It solves one of Steam's fundamental problems which is a lack of rigorous screening processes for games and offloads some the responsibility to consumers. Game don't work? Get a refund. No longer our problem.

Exactly. All those apply to the reselling of digital games as well. It would be great PR, it would make the attraction of Steam skyrocket and it would encourage more people to buy new games on day one. You can take a gamble on a game even at full price if you know that you'll be able to recoup some of your investment if it turns out to be bad or have no replaybility.

 

[joecanada]

The first step is pricing them better. I don't mind buying digital when the price is low enough to warrant the lack of resale.

this ... its getting there now with PSN sales. couldn't be bothered anymore to buy a game for 60 bucks for 10 dollar trade in later when I can get the same game for 49 on psn..... that's good enough for me.

I haven't bought a physical game in years.

 

[Haly]

Exactly. All those apply to the reselling of digital games as well. It would be great PR, it would make the attraction of Steam skyrocket and it would encourage more people to buy new games on day one. You can take a gamble on a game even at full price if you know that you'll be able to recoup some of your investment if it turns out to be bad or have no replaybility.

I don't really see games as monetary investment in the same way I don't think of selling my movies or books or clothes one day. I have the freedom to but it doesn't inform my purchases at all.

I feel this has always been a quirk of gaming consumer culture driven by brick and mortar stores like Gamestop which profit massively from recycling the same games over and over again, something that would not be true for Steam. Every sale they gain from someone thinking they can resell a game is a sale they'll potentially lose from someone who'll just want to buy it from a reseller later down the road. You already see this with Steam's aggressive sales anyway, with people skipping launch day to wait for a price drop during the holiday season. And then you'll need to give the publisher a significant enough of a cut of the resale to get them on board with it. No, I don't think the math works out here. It'd be profit neutral.

 

[FinalAres]

Exactly. All those apply to the reselling of digital games as well. It would be great PR, it would make the attraction of Steam skyrocket and it would encourage more people to buy new games on day one. You can take a gamble on a game even at full price if you know that you'll be able to recoup some of your investment if it turns out to be bad or have no replaybility.

Conversely you'd be flooding the market with used games so thered be no Incentive to not just wait a couple of weeks. Unlike with bricks and mortar outlets finding second hand stock wouldn't be an issue, so it would be easy. No retailers would be controlling the market either so prices likely woukd drop quickly.

I think it's a barrel of something nasty you'd be opening there. Unless you could only sell to people who'd been on your friend list for X amount of time. That could work well.

 

[MUnited83]

Don't be ridiculous. Day one sales might go up—but only day one sales. After the first few weeks there'd be no reason to ever buy "new" again. A "used" digital title is identical to a "new" digital title. Consumers would have access to a cheaper price where the publisher wouldn't see a dime.

That would never work.

To be fair, in the age of virtually scratch free Blu-ray this is already the case for physical too. There is no reason to buy it new, and a used copy is still identical to a new one, unless the previous owner is some sort of caveman.
The real difference is that physical requires you phisically go somewhere, find a place that buys it or arrange a transaction with a individual. With digital, you wouldn't have to go anywhere, you could do it from the comfort of your home, and you could sell it to anyone in the world in 5 minutes. That is the big difference that matters.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

I don't really see games as monetary investment in the same way I don't think of selling my movies or books one day. I have the freedom to but it doesn't inform my purchases at all.

Same here, but I'd think different if a book was 69€, I knew I'd never read it again and it's not a classic that makes my shelf look good.