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[Sad Affleck]

I'm a fan of digital distribution. It's fast, it's convenient and I see no future for physical media beyond the next generation. However, before that happens there needs to be a way for us to sell our digital games. Digital distribution should make our lives easier, it shouldn't become a trojan horse for the erosion of our rights over the content we purchase.

Personally I think that Valve will eventually lead the way through the Steam Market. Everything else is already for sale, I can imagine a system where users can basically run their own Steam sales and both Valve and the developer get a cut. I expect some backlash at first from developers and publishers but, just like with Steam Refunds, they will eventually have to live with it.

I believe that the ability to sell digital games would give a noticeable boost to day one sales of new games, especially on PC. If retail really is going away then this needs to happen sooner rather than later.

 

[family_guy]

If retail goes away, then the publishers have won. You'll be at their mercy.

 

[always crazy bacon]

There is, it's called rental.

 

[Gamezone]

Why do retail have to go away?

 

[Charles Brandon]

never going to happen

 

[El Sincejas]

You cannot sell a rental license.

 

[Rellik]

never going to happen

Didn't Microsoft ask about it in a survey? I think it was 10% or something like that.

 

[JayEH]

What does selling digital games even mean? It's just a license. What does valve gain from getting a license back? They can't resell your specific license like a pre owned physical game.

 

[NewDust]

There is, it's called rental.

In a lot of countries software rental is illegal, or at least not a viable option.

 

[Gamezone]

Just make sure physical media stays, then you'll have the option. It's never happening with digital. It would be a much bigger loss for publishers with digital media, because it's way easier to sell/trade something digital. I usually don't sell my physical games because it's a pain in the ass.

 

[Kintaro]

You could just wait. Wait until the price drops to where the sting of not being able to resell doesn't hurt. Or...realize that video games are disposable entertainment and stop worrying about it so much. =)

 

[Marty Chinn]

 

[Strangelove77]

But why would Steam or anyone else allow it when they can just sell it themselves probably for cheaper?
Steam and PSN digital sales are nuts. So many games go to such low prices so fast now that if you could trade back or resell games you'd get nothing for it. In this supposed reality, you'd be lucky to sell Portal or Half Life for a dollar. You can't compete with cheap and unlimited supply which is what digital is.

You're better off just renting from Red Box instead of buying a full price game if your intentions are to play something to completion and then resell it. That's the reality of it.

 

[RedSwirl]

Music retail isn't even 100% dead yet.

 

[Gamezone]

Music retail isn't even 100% dead yet.

Far from. You can pretty much get everything at retail.

 

[digita1alchemy]

I think you should be able to transfer your licenses to other users on a given distribution platform. The people involved can work out the finer details themselves (a gift, a sale, letting someone "borrow" the game), but the ability should be there.

 

[Tyraniboah]

I doubt retail is going away, but a secondhand digital market would be nice. I prefer digital myself, but I don't want to be at the mercy of publishers. I do like having the physical option and I buy every one of my Nintendo games physical. We'll likely need some kind of legislation on behalf of consumer rights to get that secondhand market across the board....And with the current administration and congress I doubt that will happen anytime soon in the states. I could be wrong and maybe Steam, Microsoft, Sony, etc will each have their own marketplace for selling digital licenses sometime soon. I just don't think they'll address it without being forced to.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

It is possible that the market compensate for it, publishers could include a buyback provision in their license agreement by which you could resell your license back to them but I doubt you will ever have the legal right to resell your license or a system to accommodate that resale .

 

[emag]

Personally I think that Valve will eventually lead the way through the Steam Market. Everything else is already for sale, I can imagine a system where users can basically run their own Steam sales and both Valve and the developer get a cut.

So either Valve can sell Half-Life 3 for $40 where Valve gets $40 or you can "sell" Half-Life 3 for $40 and Valve gets $13? Why would Valve give up $27?

I believe that the ability to sell digital games would give a noticeable boost to day one sales of new games, especially on PC. If retail really is going away then this needs to happen sooner rather than later.

Sure, if you can rent a $60 game for $5 (or even $20), I'm sure that day one "sales" will go up. Will overall profitability, though? I'm not convinced by your model.

 

[Alethebeer]

You cannot sell a rental license.

In EU you should be able to. EUCJ ruled in 2012.
Rental for an unlimited amount of time is a sale therefore exhaustion applies. If exhaustion applies you can resell your license related to a computer program.


Conclusions
(1)
Article 4(2) of Directive 2009/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 April 2009 on the legal protection of computer programs must be interpreted as meaning that the right to distribute the copy of a computer program is exhausted if the rightholder, who allowed that copy to be downloaded from the internet to a data carrier, also granted, for consideration, a right to use that copy for an unlimited period of time.
After all, a sale within the meaning of that provision is constituted by any act by which a copy of a computer program is made available in the European Union, in any form and by any means, for the purpose of being used for an unlimited period and in return for a lump-sum payment.
(2)
Articles 4(2) and 5(1) of Directive 2009/24 must be interpreted as meaning that, in the event of resale of the right to use the copy of a computer program, the second acquirer cannot rely on exhaustion of the right to distribute that copy in order to reproduce the program by creating a new copy, even if the first acquirer has erased his copy or no longer uses it.

The jump to videogames is not that far fetched to be honest.

 

[Arkanius]

So either Valve can sell Half-Life 3 for $40 where Valve gets $40 or you can "sell" Half-Life 3 for $40 and Valve gets $13? Why would Valve give up $27?



Sure, if you can rent a $60 game for $5 (or even $20), I'm sure that day one "sales" will go up. Will overall profitability, though? I'm not convinced by your model.

To make way for their end game
Complete global saturation

 

[molnizzle]

I believe that the ability to sell digital games would give a noticeable boost to day one sales of new games, especially on PC.

Don't be ridiculous. Day one sales might go up—but only day one sales. After the first few weeks there'd be no reason to ever buy "new" again. A "used" digital title is identical to a "new" digital title. Consumers would have access to a cheaper price where the publisher wouldn't see a dime.

That would never work.

 

[LAA]

Don't agree with that.
Still pretty much get all my games physical. And why? Because the vast majority of the time it's cheaper. £54 for Mass Effect on the PS Store for example. How much for physical? £39.
This digital taking over talk only ever seems to apply to the US, Not seen it really being taken seriously elsewhere.
That and the switch is pretty much forced physical.


PS Store is getting better with sales though, to the point it's worth considering, but on day 1. Most of the time no chance.

That said a reselling/even maybe trade in feature for digital games should be happening, however not sure it really makes much sense for Sony/MS/Nintendo to implement that voluntarily, Maybe only if they're forced to implement a system to do this.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Retail isn't going anywhere. Don't forget that by-and-large most games still sell ~70% of their copies in shops or online. We won't be ready for retail to disappear for a long time, even if their share becomes a quarter of a game's overall sales. Plus, hardware manufacturers needs them for console & peripheral sales.

 

[Lister]

It would definitely be good for consumers. There's a lot of games on my Stema list I would love to get rid of. Being able to dump console game licences and leave those ecosystems behind to fully be PC only, or vice versa from PC to console, or between consoles, would be a great thing for consumers too. Digital copies of games would actually be worth something after they've been purchased, raising their value overall, IMHO.

The question becomes how do you make that palettable to publishers and develpers? And even big stores and platform holders.

Sure, for me, selling my Sony/Microsoft games to move to one or the other if I felt like it is good for me as a consumer. Pretty sure Sony woudl hate it.

Placing some limits might work: You cna only sell it on a specific market place possibly tied to the where you bought or where the licence applies. Dev/publisher/platform gets a cut. The money might be tied to the platform (Stema bucks/ Sony/Microsoft points, etc). Can't gift games (after the liscence has been transfered of course), must sell them for a minimum, or possibly limit the number of gifts you cna make on a monthly basis before you have to sell.

Maybe limit the number of times a licence can be exchanged?

Definitely lots of hurdles to jump through. Definitely agree that Valve is the most likely giant to start heading this way, if it ever happens.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'm sure publishers can't wait to turn consumers into competitors who will undercut them.

Never going to happen.

 

[Herp Derpington]

I think once we've gotten to the point where consoles work like pcs with steam resell won't matter. By that I mean standardized architecture where the game I bought through steam years ago is always playable because the platform never changes. We're on our way with the PS4 and Xbox but it's gonna take a few systems by them to prove this point. The idea of somehow losing ownership with games only exists because the market has changed so often and entire ecosystems were left behind. Sony and MS aren't going anywhere anytime soon so keeping access to your library through the years shouldn't be an issue. For those that sell or trade their games in, well either something will come along that enables you to get credit from your game on their stores or it won't and you'll just have to adapt. We seem to be headed towards the inevitable digital future and it's probably gonna be a rough ride for some of you.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

Reselling games is what needs to end, and will greatly help the industry when it does. If you can't afford games without trading in your old ones, maybe reconsider your purchases.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i disagree. reselling would just get factored into the price and i would probably almost never care to do it.

the music industry has mostly done away with retail and it's doing just fine without the potential for reselling.

basically, deciding whether or not to resell games is a headache i'd rather not have to bother with, and the ability to do so would just get priced into the upfront cost.

 

[Mechazawa]

The only way Valve is "going to lead the way" is if Europe begrudgingly forces them to.

 

[Mechanized]

If I could get back a 10th of what my Steam Library is worth, in steam wallet funds, I'd be satisfied.

 

[always crazy bacon]

In a lot of countries software rental is illegal, or at least not a viable option.

Illegal how? because the publishers want to sell a game at full price. If a publisher wants to offer rental they can do. Only EULA says its not allowed and the publisher writes that.

 

[Lister]

Reselling games is what needs to end, and will greatly help the industry when it does. If you can't afford games without trading in your old ones, maybe reconsider your purchases.

Ultimately I agree. So long as you have a fair, robust refind system, this is indeed the best compromise for both, I think, as much as reselling would benefit the consumer - I think it's a short sighted benefit, as the overall market is likely to suffer and/or change as a result.

 

[witchedwiz]

I'M NOT ADVOCATING FOR PIRACY, heck my steam account and physical game collection is huge..
but..
if retail goes away, some changes need to be in place..
as things stand, retail and digital have usually a VERY CLOSE (if not the same price)..
with physical price falling WAY faster than the digital counterpart....

 

[Blam]

Fat chance in seeing retail disappear. I like the physical things I get from my retail stores so for me retail is not disappearing.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Reselling games is what needs to end, and will greatly help the industry when it does. If you can't afford games without trading in your old ones, maybe reconsider your purchases.

I hope you realize that this is an elitist attitude of Adam Orth proportions.

 

[ElNino]

I would have liked to see what (if) MS was planning on the idea of selling digital licenses, but we never got that far.

 

[TheMissingLink]

Disagree.

Nobody owes consumers anything for buying games digitally.

The only reason it exists for physical hardware is for 3rd parties (GameStop, eBay, etc.) to make money off of it.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

This was going to be a thing with the original vision for the Xbox One. As to the actual logistics of how digital purchases would be transferable, Microsoft pulled the 180 before answering the question.

So if they actually had a plan, we'll never know what it was (unless someone asks, I guess, but I'm not sure why anyone would care about what "would have" been).

 

[Sad Affleck]

Disagree.

Nobody owes consumers anything for buying games digitally.

Absolutely false. Companies don't get to decide which consumer rights apply.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

I don't understand the logistics of there being a used digital market. It doesn't really make any sense. If/when retail goes way, it's over.

 

[Maxinas]

But i don't want retail to go away. I like my boxes.

 

[RedSwirl]

I honestly think it would be a bigger deal if one of the console manufacturers allowed digital sales outside their own stores. Like, allowed other stores (or publishers) to make their own clients, thus providing more competition. Maybe not exactly how it is on PC but something to provide for competition and even the possibility of digital console games without DRM.

 

[mazpratim]

There's no downside to buying a used digital game unlike with physical where you can have disc scratches/missing cases/etc. So there won't be much of an incentive to not buy used which means that I doubt any company would be willing to implement a system like that, but you never know I suppose

 

[Lionel Richie]

I really hope none of this shit is ever an issue any time soon. I'm still mourning the loss of physical manuals.

Besides, it consistently boggles my mind how gamers are likely the only group of people who seem ok with less consumer rights and some are even fucking eager for it. No, of course I don't need the physical thing and who the fuck cares about the concept of ownership, please let me have an all digital future for no fucking added benefit at all and the privilege of mega massive corporations making even more money off my interests.

 

[singhr1]

Absolutely false. Companies don't get to decide which consumer rights apply.

Uhh what do you think a EULA is?

 

[adamsapple]

Fuck the all digital future. I'd absolutely hate it if retail stores went away.

 

[Ertai]

As long as the majority of sales are largely in favor of the physical platform retail isn't going anywhere. Over the coming years it will be interesting to see whether or not digital sales will continue their growth, which i doubt it will.

With Microsoft burning their hands badly with their digital proposition, i feel console makers will think 3 times as hard as to whether or not they want do this.

You don't just toss a large portion of your potential user base in the trash like that

 

[Sad Affleck]

I don't understand the logistics of there being a used digital market. It doesn't really make any sense. If/when retail goes way, it's over.

What logistics are there to understand? I bought something and I should be able to sell it if I don't want it any more.

 

[jelly]

Nah, no way. You would need some EU intervention to get that ball rolling, can't think of anyone else even talking about it.

If consoles ever followed the Steam way of 3rd party selling keys, that would create enough competition and price drops similar to retail that people would be happy with. Even if Microsoft and Sony actually put everything on sale instead of select content that would go a long way but without retail would publishers be that generous.