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Dave Chappelle - Collection 1 |OT| Netflix Standup Special - It's a Celebration
- Thread starter FantasticMrFoxdie
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Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
When has this ever happened? You sure you aren't imagining a Golden Age coincidentally tied to your limited youth awareness of the world around you?
SketchTheArtist
Member
But the thing I seem to read here when people say 'Well, they can joke about gays/trans, but it has to be funny'' is exactly that. The entire room erupted in laughter during those jokes. That means that it's intent is to be funny and it worked. Maybe not for all, but it did was it was meant to do.
It's okay if it makes you uncomfortable, there are jokes that makes me uncomfortable and I'm okay with that.
Like Patrice O'neal once said: 'During a comedy show, 50% of the audience should be dying of laughter and the other 50% should be horrified''. You can't please everyone. Good jokes and bad jokes are born from the same area. Sometimes it works for majority of people sometimes it doesn't.
Back when when women and minorities knew their place, obviously /s
metalslimer
Member
Black lgbt members (like myself) are always ignored. All I hear is you fucking faggots and trannies need to learn to take a joke. Honestly Dave would probably be a lot more understanding than some of the people in here.
It's a great subreddit to be fair
SliceSabre
Banned
Watched it last night and absolutely loved it, a return to form if you ask me. I enjoyed the first special a bit more than the second.
I think my favorite jokes were when he said how transgender people were beating blacks at the discrimination Olympics and blacks and Jews arguing over who has had it worse.
I think my favorite jokes were when he said how transgender people were beating blacks at the discrimination Olympics and blacks and Jews arguing over who has had it worse.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
If by great, you mean a disgusting place full of hate, then yeah I guess so.
Although, you liking that subreddit really isn't a surprise with the way you've been posting in this thread.
It's one of the main Gamergate subreddits, so I wonder what that says about you :/
Nice to see this thread bringing the gators out of the woodwork.
Samurai G0SU
Member
i watched them both and i enjoyed them. nothing made me spit out my water funny but i smirked and laughed a lil. it was fun and im excited to see what he does next as his creative juices flow within!
Go back to VOAT, hun.
I wasn't uncomfortable though, I just didn't find it funny.
Glass Rebel
Member
I watched both specials and they were 99% amazing, 1% uncomfortable.
I grew up on Dave, he's my favourite comedian and he was in many ways my entry point to American culture because he joked from a position that spoke to me as the child of immigrants. I don't think Dave's homophobic or transphobic jokes come from a place of hate but rather ignorance. And that's why I think it's important for people to speak out on it and him to (hopefully) listen. I personally think the best comedy goes places where other people don't dare to go and I think comedians should be (and are) allowed to say whatever they want but trying to be funny doesn't protect you from criticism. Dave's comments came off as very insensitive and people have a right to voice their disapproval.
I grew up on Dave, he's my favourite comedian and he was in many ways my entry point to American culture because he joked from a position that spoke to me as the child of immigrants. I don't think Dave's homophobic or transphobic jokes come from a place of hate but rather ignorance. And that's why I think it's important for people to speak out on it and him to (hopefully) listen. I personally think the best comedy goes places where other people don't dare to go and I think comedians should be (and are) allowed to say whatever they want but trying to be funny doesn't protect you from criticism. Dave's comments came off as very insensitive and people have a right to voice their disapproval.
SketchTheArtist
Member
Oh okay. I read earlier in the thread about people saying that he shouldn't have done those jokes because they weren't funny and I thought you were echoing that. My bad.
Look at that, a person understanding how shit works
metalslimer
Member
I don't see what people expected this thread to be exactly. It's a comedy special. There's not anything particularly deep to analyze unless you wanted 10 pages of GREAT JOB DAVE DON'T CHANGE A THING!
Anyway, I hope netflix releases some numbers on this since people have wanted this for a while. The chris rock one will do even better
Anyway, I hope netflix releases some numbers on this since people have wanted this for a while. The chris rock one will do even better
I wanna live
The Futurist
Member
These are our experiences, not really sure what to take away from it.
I literally see thousands of faces every single day. Thousands of new faces in a city where you see every single type of person.
It's Manhattan.
I just don't come across that many transgender people on a regular basis.
Statistically, the population is extremely small. You would think that with the amount of coverage we see in the media and the amount people have discussions online, you would come across many more transgender people. That's all I'm saying.
It's not about engagement. Obviously if you have transgender people in your life, you would engage with them.
Will have to check with you next time I need to know how shit works!
The Main Event
Member
Dave still got the goods. Knocked the ball out of the park in the second episode.
excelsiorlef
Member
Someone earlier asked how you'd make the trans jokes fumier... I talked about centering the "oppression olympics" one around the idea that white people can have LGBT kids but they can't have black kids (mix raced couples aside naturally).
I think I'll touch on the one I think was the most ignorant of the bunch:
He opens up with something along of I support everyone's right to be who they feel they are inside, says he's an ally but then he says but....
"To what degree to I have to participate in your self-image? Is it fair that I have to change my whole pronoun game up for this motherfucker? That doesn't make sense."
And this is where the issue comes into play... let's pretend the joke as some have said is centred on Chappelle making fun of himself for being lazy about adapting (I disagree bit I'll roll with it)
Then how do you tell it better? Change up the wording.... drop entirely that first part about participating in your self-image because if this is truly about your issues don't start it off talking about trans folk's self image. Instead of "Is it fair that I have to change my whole pronoun game up for this motherfucker" re-centre the statement to make it clearer that you're going to change your pronoun game but you're lazy, here if you wanted to be provocative reference how say you've just now started getting used to some sort of other once acceptable but now derogatory thing and here that would express an understanding that misgendering is in fact a derogatory thing by associating it with something else we all know is now derogatory.
Make the joke really about how times are changing and you're trying to keep up.... that you are going to keep up... Make it self reflected, make it about you being behind the times... Make that crystal clear.
I'm not a great comedian so I'm not going to present a finished joke but that is how one could go about it.
But I'll be blunt that isn't the joke he's trying to tell...
Again the wording is crucial here: I support people's right to be who they feel they are on the inside but...
It is clear from his wording that Chappelle has hangups about trans people, probably doesn't understand us, probably doesn't fully think we actually are who we are... That's why he focuses it a lot on self-image... we aren't actually men or women we just think we are, we just feel we are... and that "that's fine with him", but he also feels it shouldn't be his responsibility to alter his perception or language because he thinks that doesn't make sense. And that's why the joke fails imo because it really isn't about his laziness or whatever, the joke is literally it's fine if you think you are a man or woman but I shouldn't have to address you as such... Again I just have to point how crucial wording it as self-image is and using language coded in feeling rather than actually being.... A trans woman or man wouldn't say my self-image is that of a woman or man, they'd say I am a woman or a man... Chappelle though seems to see it less as we are and more like we say we are, more like we feel we are.... and that's why he argues about at what level he should have to participate in our self-image because the implication there is clear: I totally support you in your self-image as a woman or a man up until the point where you expect me to also identify you as such" and that's a problem.
I think I'll touch on the one I think was the most ignorant of the bunch:
He opens up with something along of I support everyone's right to be who they feel they are inside, says he's an ally but then he says but....
"To what degree to I have to participate in your self-image? Is it fair that I have to change my whole pronoun game up for this motherfucker? That doesn't make sense."
And this is where the issue comes into play... let's pretend the joke as some have said is centred on Chappelle making fun of himself for being lazy about adapting (I disagree bit I'll roll with it)
Then how do you tell it better? Change up the wording.... drop entirely that first part about participating in your self-image because if this is truly about your issues don't start it off talking about trans folk's self image. Instead of "Is it fair that I have to change my whole pronoun game up for this motherfucker" re-centre the statement to make it clearer that you're going to change your pronoun game but you're lazy, here if you wanted to be provocative reference how say you've just now started getting used to some sort of other once acceptable but now derogatory thing and here that would express an understanding that misgendering is in fact a derogatory thing by associating it with something else we all know is now derogatory.
Make the joke really about how times are changing and you're trying to keep up.... that you are going to keep up... Make it self reflected, make it about you being behind the times... Make that crystal clear.
I'm not a great comedian so I'm not going to present a finished joke but that is how one could go about it.
But I'll be blunt that isn't the joke he's trying to tell...
Again the wording is crucial here: I support people's right to be who they feel they are on the inside but...
It is clear from his wording that Chappelle has hangups about trans people, probably doesn't understand us, probably doesn't fully think we actually are who we are... That's why he focuses it a lot on self-image... we aren't actually men or women we just think we are, we just feel we are... and that "that's fine with him", but he also feels it shouldn't be his responsibility to alter his perception or language because he thinks that doesn't make sense. And that's why the joke fails imo because it really isn't about his laziness or whatever, the joke is literally it's fine if you think you are a man or woman but I shouldn't have to address you as such... Again I just have to point how crucial wording it as self-image is and using language coded in feeling rather than actually being.... A trans woman or man wouldn't say my self-image is that of a woman or man, they'd say I am a woman or a man... Chappelle though seems to see it less as we are and more like we say we are, more like we feel we are.... and that's why he argues about at what level he should have to participate in our self-image because the implication there is clear: I totally support you in your self-image as a woman or a man up until the point where you expect me to also identify you as such" and that's a problem.
SirRattleBalls
Banned
You seem to be spending more time than Chappelle trying to deconstruct his joke. How you presented your re-wording of his joke just aint funny, and to be honest he does not HAVE to understand you to pass a criticism or joke about you. When will you understand that when it comes to comedy no section of society is safe.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Imagine if Chappelle was being being self aware of the pronoun thing and said "Is she is alright?" and gets chastised by the drugged out person's friend "How dare you presume he's a woman just because he's wearing a dress and lipstick. You people and your heteronormative beliefs".
At points like this it's just best to say neutral pronouns like Are they alright?
At points like this it's just best to say neutral pronouns like Are they alright?
excelsiorlef
Member
Yes I do believe I likely spent more time thinking about the joke than Chappelle did... part of the problem...
You keep just defaulting to but it's a joke... (To which I must ask is it just a joke like on Top Gear?)
Also I hope you see the irony in you telling me that my reworking of his joke isn't funny...
And he doesn't have to do anything (that said if you want to make fun of something actually tying to understand what it is first is a good idea)... this idea that I have any power to force him to do anything is weird... should he somehow (and he won't) read my criticism and gain a different perspective... fantastic.
Phawx
Member
Same, as I was watching it a part of me wondered if the special would even exist if hadn't gone to that Kevin Hart show.
Ps: I watched the first one and LOVED it, can't wait to watch the second one. ( waiting on the wifey)
Basketball
Member
this thread
Exactly my thoughts. I had to pause for a second and do some research on Kevin...then I watched some of his stand up. How is Kevin Hart THAT famous? His comedy is "ok". I personally found him to be too forced and not funny half of the time.
I laughed at the stuff I thought was funny, and didn't laugh at the stuff I didn't. Some stuff I didn't think was funny because it came from a place of insensitivity. Simple as that. But dude fucking admits IN BOTH SETS that he's learning more about that stuff and has very little experience with it in his 40+ years.
I'm not going to tell the dude to stop telling certain jokes. I'm going to just fucking not find them funny, and be happy the guy is smart enough to evolve even as he gets older.
I'm not going to tell the dude to stop telling certain jokes. I'm going to just fucking not find them funny, and be happy the guy is smart enough to evolve even as he gets older.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
he's in a million movies, talk shows, etc... his marketing and branding game is on point. His social media game is on point. And he does have some level of talent.
That's a dangerous combo for the new class of comedy fans.
"But it don't look good" during the 2nd set's Cosby part KILLED me
A line that only could be that great with perfect delivery
Do you not watch TV? Or pay attention to movie trailers? Or live under a rock?
i dont know what turn this thread took becuase i didnt read it all, but I just finished watching the first episode and was severely underwhelmed. I didnt feel like he had the same delivery or punch that he once had. i rarely found myself laughing and cracked a smile on a handful of occasions (the OJ stories were pretty funny). Judging from the thread however, it seems the second episode if much better, ill give that a watch tomorrow.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I think Age of Spin is the second one. Texas is the 1st. Because chronologically, that's how they were recorded.
Age of Spin is much better.
Rumblebones
Banned
I've seen both specials three times each. I'm reduced to tears every time. Dave is the GOAT.
He makes fun of all groups, so I don't see why the LGBTQ stuff goes beyond the pale.
He makes fun of all groups, so I don't see why the LGBTQ stuff goes beyond the pale.
darkwing-buck
Member
His voice seems a little rough at times but jesus his impressions have remained the same!
Vincent Grayson
Member
I hesitate to even bother, but I'll try: no one is suggesting that he cannot/should not make jokes about LGBTQ stuff.
What people are saying is that those particular jokes didn't land for them, or felt lazy, or in some cases, felt mean. Those are all perfectly valid feelings to have, just as they would be if someone felt like jokes about another group didn't work for them.
You guys need to stop painting this as "don't make jokes involving the fragile minorities", because no one is saying that.
Eyemus Lutt
Member
In age of spin I originally didn't find the part about the superhero that funny, but the way he crafted the long joke and brought it back at the end is genius.
I think I loved the structured nature of Age of spin, but the Texas special way non stop jokes.
I think I loved the structured nature of Age of spin, but the Texas special way non stop jokes.
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