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Politico on Trump's terrible deal making with Trumpcare.

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I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
1. Trump doesn't care at all about what is in bills or what bills do... And tried to argue that what bills do doesn't matter while he was talking to ideologues who only care about specifics in bills.

Donald Trump had heard enough about policy and process. It was Thursday afternoon and members of the House Freedom Caucus were peppering the president with wonkish concerns about the American Health Care Act—the language that would leave Obamacare's ”essential health benefits" in place, the community rating provision that limited what insurers could charge certain patients, and whether the next two steps of Speaker Paul Ryan's master plan were even feasible—when Trump decided to cut them off.

"Forget about the little shit," Trump said, according to multiple sources in the room. "Let's focus on the big picture here."

The group of roughly 30 House conservatives, gathered around a mammoth, oval-shaped conference table in the Cabinet Room of the White House, exchanged disapproving looks. Trump wanted to emphasize the political ramifications of the bill's defeat; specifically, he said, it would derail his first-term agenda and imperil his prospects for reelection in 2020. The lawmakers nodded and said they understood. And yet they were disturbed by his dismissiveness. For many of the members, the "little shit" meant the policy details that could make or break their support for the bill—and have far-reaching implications for their constituents and the country.

"We're talking about one-fifth of our economy," a member told me afterward.
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Trump also doesn't understand any form of influencing or leverage other than lies and threats and screwed himself threatening someone who he could have easily convinced.

Then Trump made a mistake. After singling out Meadows and asking him to stand up in front of his colleagues, Trump joked that he might "come after" the Freedom Caucus boss if he didn't vote yes, and then added, with a more serious tone: "I think Mark Meadows will get on board."

It was a crucial misreading of Meadows, who has been determined to please both the White House and his conservatives colleagues on the Hill. Upon assuming the chairmanship of the Freedom Caucus earlier this year, Meadows was viewed suspiciously by some of his members who worried that the North Carolina congressman is too cozy with Trump and would hesitate to defy him. Meadows campaigned extensively with Trump last fall and struck up a relationship with White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, who communicates with him almost daily by text. Meadows knew the heath care fight would be viewed as a test of his independence from Trump, and the moment the president called him out, he was boxed in.

"That was the biggest mistake the president could have made," one Freedom Caucus member told me. "Mark desperately wanted to get to yes, and Trump made it impossible for him. If he flipped after that he would look incredibly weak."
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http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...th-care-ahca-replacement-failure-trump-214947

The Art of the Deal, baby.
 
G

GrizzleBoy

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
1. Trump doesn't care at all about what is in bills or what bills do... And tried to argue that what bills do doesn't matter while he was talking to ideologues who only care about specifics in bills.



Trump also doesn't understand any form of influencing or leverage other than lies and threats and screwed himself threatening someone who he could have easily convinced.



http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...th-care-ahca-replacement-failure-trump-214947

The Art of the Deal, baby.
Click to expand...

When you've spent your whole life throwing money at yes-men because, "I want X. Make it happen or you're fired".
 
S

Surfinn

Member
Honestly if he were even half decent at making the deal he wouldn't have invested time and effort and gone all in with a bill that was so obviously DOA.

He would have had the sense to step away and demand a better deal.

But the truth is that he's fucking clueless.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
It's premature to discount Trump's overall game plan at this moment, IMO.

Surfinn said:
He would have had the sense to step away and demand a better deal.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but that wouldn't demonstrate to the American public and to conservatives in particular, that the establishment Republican leadership is useless.
 
M

Matt

Member
Rentahamster said:
It's premature to discount Trump's overall game plan at this moment, IMO.



Perhaps, but that wouldn't demonstrate to the American public and to conservatives in particular, that the establishment Republican leadership is useless.
Click to expand...
There is no game plan on Trump's part here. The idea that what happened today is part of some sort of strategy is laughable.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
Piecake said:
5 bucks the big picture is passing bills so Trump can say he 'won'
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That's exactly what Trump has been doing the whole time. The hilarious thing is that Trump's complete inability to look at the finer details is the reason why he continuously gets the L.

He's got his travel ban rejected TWICE because he won't fucking shut up about making muslim lives terrible and he got his health care bill killed before conception by rushing the whole thing without even caring about what it would do to a significant number of red state constituents (to the point that the AARP flat out told everyone to vote "no").

Rentahamster said:
Perhaps, but that wouldn't demonstrate to the American public and to conservatives in particular, that the establishment Republican leadership is useless.
Click to expand...

The problem is that Trump specifically tied his boat to this plan from the very start to the very end. He then chose to threaten the Freedom Caucus, who had enough balls to tell the president of their own party to fuck off. As much as Ryan looks terrible here, Trump looks impotent considering his whole image is tied on his ability to negotiate and make deals.

If Trump had any negotiation skills or actual political gravitas, he would have gotten people to politically die for his bill in the same way Obama did.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
Trump doesn't realize that pretty much nobody in congress cares more about Trump getting reelected than they care about their own reelection. And that it isn't even close
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
"Take one for the team" was a phrase repeatedly deployed; at one point, after Bannon used it, Joe Barton, a white-haired conservative from Texas, snapped back in response that Bannon was talking to them like children and he didn't appreciate it. The room filled with uncomfortable silence; Bannon backed down and the meeting went on. (Barton eventually announced his support for the legislation—one of only a few who would eventually switch positions.)
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Bwahaha, Joe Barton making Bannon step back.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
E

EdibleKnife

Member
Rentahamster said:
It's premature to discount Trump's overall game plan at this moment, IMO.
Click to expand...

What game plan? Everything move he made in that article was fucking ridiculous. But suddenly I'm supposed to think the man who couldn't put a square peg in a square hole can handle building a quantum computer? He's a fuck up. He either has no or will similarly fuck up any larger aspirations. He's spent multiple days worth of machinations golfing for goodness sakes
 
Alex

Alex

Member
If he wants to win so bad, maybe he should do what he actually promised his poor, deluded base and offered reasonable healthcare so you can grab both a good chunk of Ds and Rs even if you piss off some folks.

Nah though, can't stop being a fuckhead for anything.
 
N

Netherscourge

Banned
I hope the people Meadows represents understand that they are the "little shit" Trump is talking about and remember that in 2018.

Because that is exactly who he's referring to.
 
S

SodiumBenzoate

Member
Rentahamster said:
It's premature to discount Trump's overall game plan at this moment, IMO.



Perhaps, but that wouldn't demonstrate to the American public and to conservatives in particular, that the establishment Republican leadership is useless.
Click to expand...

He's the fucking president of the united States. He doesn't get to play the outsider card anymore. He is the Republican leadership.

He failed.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
rjinaz said:
'None of your shit matters. What really matters here is that I win!'
Click to expand...
Seriously. The only reason any of them give the slightest shit about him winning is because the alternative is almost certainly a Democrat winning. I'm sure most of them would love to be able to successfully primary another candidate against him, especially with his abyssmal approval ratings
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
The greatest negotiator! Shoot first, let someone else take care of the mess afterwards, winning is all that matters.

/s
 
B

BigDug13

Member
Alex said:
If he wants to win so bad, maybe he should do what he actually promised his poor, deluded base and offered reasonable healthcare so you can grab both a good chunk of Ds and Rs even if you piss off some folks.

Nah though, can't stop being a fuckhead for anything.
Click to expand...

That still won't pass the house. Here's the thing. We basically have three parties in the House right now. We have Democrats, Republicans, and Freedom Caucus. If they push the bill too far to the center to actually attempt a legit Obamacare replacement, Freedom Caucus won't do it. If they go too extreme to the right, the moderate Republicans won't go for it due to fear of backlash.

In a way, their gerrymandering has screwed them. If Freedom Caucus districts vote for bills that are too moderate, they'll be replaced with even more extreme candidates.

If moderate Republicans don't hold the moderate line in moderate Republican districts, they will be viewed as too extreme and will be replaced by someone more moderate.

Senators don't have to worry because their support isn't built on gerrymandering. House of Gerrymandered districts however have to worry.
 
T

Tommy DJ

Member
Wag said:
Threatening people to motivate them.

That'll work.
Click to expand...

It sort of works if you have any bit of weight behind your threats. Trump's whole life had him threatening people into submission, which worked because he had significantly more money than his victims.

When the AARP, Heritage Foundation and Koch Brothers implement counter-threats, your own threats look toothless. When the three issued blunt threats towards everyone who dared to vote "yes" to this bill, I knew it was 100% dead.
 
M

Magus1234

Member
I keep imagining what a presidential moment will look like for him, it's such a stark contrast of character after someone as eloquent as Obama. Four or more years of this is going to be very tiresome.
 
Y

Yekshemesh

Member
Even when he epically fucks up there's always some numbskulls who thinks he's playing some 6th-dimensional chess. They never go into detail why his epic fuck ups are a part of a bigger plan, like they say just to say it.
 
B

Belfast

Member
Trump seems to have made his fortune on the backs of people he could easily bully or sycophants he could take advantage of. As evidenced by his dealings previous to the presidency in New York, he was never very good at striking deals with similar "power players" who almost universally seem to resent him. That is, unless said power players actually felt there was something significant enough to gain, in which case they were better at the game than him.

Now that he's in Washington, he's completely surrounded by people as up their own ass as he is. The same tactics aren't going to work when *everyone* is out for their own interest and have equally large egos.
 
L

Linkura

Member
That article is some truly hilarious shit. It's delicious to read how Tea Partiers destroyed the GOP's own bill because Dump's team is just that terrible at negotiating.
 
B

Belfast

Member
Tommy DJ said:
It sort of works if you have any bit of weight behind your threats. Trump's whole life had him threatening people into submission, which worked because he had significantly more money than his victims.

When the AARP, Heritage Foundation and Koch Brothers implement counter-threats, your own threats look toothless. When the three issued blunt threats towards everyone who dared to vote "yes" to this bill, I knew it was 100% dead.
Click to expand...

America didn't vote a CEO into office. They voted a middle manager. Now he is forced to contend with people who are *actually* way better at this shit than he is.
 
E

EdibleKnife

Member
Magus1234 said:
I keep imagining what a presidential moment will look like for him, it's such a stark contrast of character after someone as eloquent as Obama. Four or more years of this is going to be very tiresome.
Click to expand...

I can't even fantasize him as presidential at this point. The pivot would have to make him a completely different human being top to bottom. Imagining it is so nebulos because the nature of the guy we have is crystal clear and inset in steel. His nature is inherently not that of a leader or president in any way, shape or form.
 
C

Crosseyes

Banned
GrizzleBoy said:
When you've spent your whole life throwing money at yes-men because, "I want X. Make it happen or you're fired".
Click to expand...
Yep that was my first thought too.

He wants to run the United States government like a business but running a government like a private business owner is called being a dictator.

As much as republicans have flirted with that right wing authoritarian fantasy some sure didn't like how it tasted today. Allies inside a fascist regime have a tendency to be very useful... until they're not.

For the Trump regime though this could be turned into step 1 towards delegitimizing the legislative branch like they're already doing with the judicial branch, media, and IC community. One would think that a wanna-be dictator can't usurp power single-handedly with that many enemies but until the threat is eradicated we can't give an inch.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
Belfast said:
Trump seems to have made his fortune on the backs of people he could easily bully or sycophants he could take advantage of. As evidenced by his dealings previous to the presidency in New York, he was never very good at striking deals with similar "power players" who almost universally seem to resent him. That is, unless said power players actually felt there was something significant enough to gain, in which case they were better at the game than him.

Now that he's in Washington, he's completely surrounded by people as up their own ass as he is. The same tactics aren't going to work when *everyone* is out for their own interest and have equally large egos.
Click to expand...
Yep, it's one thing to make deal from a position of extreme strength where everyone ultimately has one end goal (making money). It's entirely different when the playing field is relatively even, and even more so when everyone there is motivated by a number of different things from ideals to religious beliefs to money to popularity
 
S

Shadybiz

Member
The Master Negotiator at work, guys!!!

Rentahamster said:
It's premature to discount Trump's overall game plan at this moment, IMO.
Click to expand...

Oh please. He's a fucking moron who graduated with a B average for a bachelor's with a focus on real estate. The reason he's in office is that his supporters are even dumber than he is. There is no strategy here. He might finally be starting to realize that negotiating deals like this involves more than sliding a napkin with a number written on it across a table.

Also...I HIGHLY doubt that he even read the damn thing. It was like 100 pages long...who has time for that?!?! ...ugh.
 
Q

Quixzlizx

Member
Rentahamster said:
It's premature to discount Trump's overall game plan at this moment, IMO.



Perhaps, but that wouldn't demonstrate to the American public and to conservatives in particular, that the establishment Republican leadership is useless.
Click to expand...

You're really trying to make lemonade out of
shit
.
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
Magus1234 said:
I keep imagining what a presidential moment will look like for him, it's such a stark contrast of character after someone as eloquent as Obama. Four or more years of this is going to be very tiresome.
Click to expand...

You obviously don't remember his joint session address. Van Jones hasn't forgotten.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
Aaronrules380 said:
Yep, it's one thing to make deal from a position of extreme strength where everyone ultimately has one end goal (making money). It's entirely different when the playing field is relatively even, and even more so when everyone there is motivated by a number of different things from ideals to religious beliefs to money to popularity
Click to expand...

Yeah. This article in the Atlantic goes into that very thing:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...n-bounce-back-from-a-health-care-rout/520752/

Why Trump Thinks He Can Bounce Back From a Health-Care Rout

In the business world, a catastrophic deal can be forgotten. The president may find it's not that easy in politics.
Click to expand...
 
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