Hidden One
Member
This could be fun
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Horizon Zero Dawn SPOILERS Thread
- Thread starter vivekTO
- Start date
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
It definitely could. And plenty of emotional hooks are already sunk into the story, given what we know about the reality of Enduring Victory. Heroic sacrifice stories always work for me. I'd be down, day one. It could be great.
So many options for growing this cool new universe!
H.Cornerstone
Member
I am inclined to believe it was Hades corrupting Hephaestus to convince it that Humans are a threat.
Aaronology
Member
The unknown signal made all of the subroutines chaotic. And the reason GAIA self destructed the Prime facility was specifically to prevent HADES from having the ability to influence/ccontrol the others.
I'm not sure If I'd make this it's own game but I think it'd be cool to do this in the form of flashbacks? Maybe when you find a vantage point you trigger the memory storage of the technology? I think that would be cool.
LastMinuteHero
Member
Oooh it'll be nice if Joris de Man can craft a somber tone similar to Killzone 3's main menu theme
Twilight Princess
Member
No more FPSes, please.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I just realized... What the helling hell was Elizabet thinking giving TED of all freaking people 'omega" access?? He's the one who freaking destroyed the earth, and Elizabet gives him complete override control? She should have known he'd decided to project his own faults on EVERYBODY. He was doing it earlier in the other logs. "What if it runs amok? Have we learned nothing from our mistakes?" "You're mistakes." So I'm going to blame Elizabet. Ted was already past redeeming and she basically gave him a second chance to destroy the world...
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Hmm....maybe I misinterpreted/missed something, but is it explicitly stated Elizabet gave Ted that access?
I remember from one of the logs in the bunker that Ted had been tinkering down with things on his own - one of the techs notices how 'kinda crazy' he had been getting, and spending all his time either at his own bunker or messing with the computers.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Remember Ted bankrolled Zero Dawn in it's entirety. Was access Elisabet's to give?
Nope. Without GAIA the sub-routine in control of their creation - can't remember name off top of my head - programmed the machines to become aggressive for self defense and started producing machines to actively combat humans and protect other machines from them - such as Sawtooths.
Note machines with a task such as grazers, etc. are often protected by these combat machines.
Thus at the end of the game you're back where you were at the start with the machines - they're still programmed to defend themselves.
Technically once GAIA is up and running this would be brought under control but note that humans were never intended to be so primitive nor to need to hunt machines for parts and resources - that's all down to Ted deleting APOLLO so that the humans created post apocalypse while in many ways ahead of classic primitives - they understand and don't fear complex machinery and so on - did have to develop their own cultures again and these are shown to be varied and mostly somewhat backward to what was intended.
Ted had the Omega clearance because of the mistake with his warbots that had no backdoor and couldn't be shut down when they went rogue. There is a data point where Ted and Elizabet are arguing over putting a backdoor in Gaia. Elizabet does not want to do this but Gaia convinces her its a good idea.
I'm fairly sure Elizabet had the same Omega clearance as Ted but had already passed away by the time Ted lost it and killed threw Alphas and Apollo.
I'm fairly sure Elizabet had the same Omega clearance as Ted but had already passed away by the time Ted lost it and killed threw Alphas and Apollo.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Well, she built GAIA from scratch, and she apparently had the right to decide whether or not to give an override, and only did so because GAIA agreed with Ted. Also, from the logs, it seemed like she was keeping him at arms reach and was in control.
I thought the kill switch they were arguing about was the override device you use to turn off Hades. Omega clearance seems to be a super admin outside of the kill switch. I still say Ted should have been in no way access to either. His money was to pay back dooming everybody, not giving him control.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Elisabet absolutely was keeping Ted at arms length, because he was keeping himself involved in the project. Apparently nobody ordered him to stay out of it. Who would, who had the authority to do that?
Another log from after Elisabet's death shows that without her there to manage him, Ted was interfering much more frequently and questioning everything that was happening (and now we know why). To me it seems like it was his money that paid for the whole show and this automatically gave him a level of access, whether anyone liked it or not.
PodcastFips
Member
Wait, so Sylens WAS a bad guy after all? I just finished the main quest line and watched the video after the credits.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I actually joked about this in the OT.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=232401267
Said if it played out like HALO REACH it could be really neat.
Those MRB battalion logs were cool as fuck to listen to.
But Guerrilla wouldn't go back to making a linear shootbang unless they really nail the story.
Now...
I HAVE QUESTIONS!
What triggered HADES to initiate the extinction protocol?
Did Travis design it to be an outright malicious AI? Because GAIA seemed pretty smart to figure out she'd cooked up the wrong biosphere.
Was it because the cradle facilities were denied access to APOLLO?
What was the rogue signal GAIA mentioned in her message to Sobeck (Aloy)? Was it merely Sylens' tampering?
Did HADES simply see the current tribal state of the world and decided it wasn't fit? Did their protocols allow them to judge what humans did with their second chance? Or was it merely to monitor the creation of a favourable biosphere?
I noticed Aloy's conception and birthdate in the ELUTHIA-9 facility log. April 4 3021.
How did Rost come about her? Who entrusted her to Rost?
Did some simple math and determined the Alphas would be to the Nora/Carja/Oseram what our 1300's ancestors would be to us.
So many questions... Great story they cooked up. Great new IP.
Berserker976
Member
I'll try to give you some answers, to the best of my knowledge:
- HADES was triggered by the unknown signal that caused all of GAIA's subroutines to because active, sentient, unstable AIs.
- GAIA is incapable of acting to destroy life, that's why HADES was necessary. Its job was to step in when/if GAIA messes up trying to restart the biosphere.
- Cradle facilities not accessing APOLLO caused the doors to the the greater facilities to remain locked. It's why humanity grew up confined to the children's wing, and then was released when resources ran out.
- The unknown signal mentioned by GAIA is a mystery. It was 100% NOT caused by Sylens though, we know that for sure.
- The ability to judge whether the biosphere needed restarting was contained within GAIA, HADES is just there to take over when those conditions are met, which they never were. HADES being active is a malfunction.
- This one's not really a question, but yep, that's her birthday
- Rost's full story is revealed if you talk with Matriarch Teersa after exploring the Cradle facility. Also Rost didn't find her, she was entrusted to him by the Matriarchs
Hope this helps!
Gorocketcat
Member
Depends.
While yes, his actions led to the creation of the "bad guys", he basically stumbled upon centuries worth of knowledge, and unknowingly was tricked into it. Once he realized what he was doing, he took actions to stop Hades.
Hippolnareff
Member
Either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil (possible Neutral Evil). Hard to say. I don't think he was written or developed well enough to become anything at all besides his actions within the present timeline of the game.
Just finished this mornin, what a great story and reading through some of this thread has been illuminating.
I still have a few side quests to do and a lot of collectibles. I usually complete all side material before finishing but the story was too compelling. I missed a ton of data points, wish the compass would pick them up easier. It seems most of the overworld data points just provide insight into what the world was like prior to the Faro plague, right?
First off, just gonna echo all the fuck Ted Faro comments. I also don't believe he deleted Apollo because he thought it was the right thing to do. I think he did it so he wouldn't be able to go down in history as the biggest douche in history.
I guess that depends if he is named explicitly in Apollo documents. If he really wanted to do the best thing he would have selectively deleted information that would still give the people knowledge to survive and maybe still be fearful of technology. Instead he just wiped it all clean, giving humans a huge handicap upon being released into the world.
Someone should have thrown him to the machines, made him fight on the front lines once he outlived his usefulness.
-I've seen some folks mention Rost DLC but I don't think that would work. It would be focused on human combat. So they would have to beef up human AI, because the machines at that time were pretty benign. Maybe an animated film would be good.
-Can't wait to see where the sequel goes. This game had so many red herrings, so many times I thought I knew what was coming next but was wrong. I'm sure we all think we know what a sequel will be but I doubt we will be right. Did anyone accurately predict the events of this game?
-Sylens is a great character. I'm sure he planned getting Hades back in his control, which is why he gave Aloy his spear. Probably created a backdoor somehow. I hope he doesn't become a villain but he definitely operates in a gray area.
He is kind of like a current day Faro but more interesting. I hope he captured Hades for good reasons. I wonder if he will find out where the signal came from and then enlist Aloy to go take them out. I guess that could make a good DLC which could further set up Horizon 2.
I still have a few side quests to do and a lot of collectibles. I usually complete all side material before finishing but the story was too compelling. I missed a ton of data points, wish the compass would pick them up easier. It seems most of the overworld data points just provide insight into what the world was like prior to the Faro plague, right?
First off, just gonna echo all the fuck Ted Faro comments. I also don't believe he deleted Apollo because he thought it was the right thing to do. I think he did it so he wouldn't be able to go down in history as the biggest douche in history.
I guess that depends if he is named explicitly in Apollo documents. If he really wanted to do the best thing he would have selectively deleted information that would still give the people knowledge to survive and maybe still be fearful of technology. Instead he just wiped it all clean, giving humans a huge handicap upon being released into the world.
Someone should have thrown him to the machines, made him fight on the front lines once he outlived his usefulness.
-I've seen some folks mention Rost DLC but I don't think that would work. It would be focused on human combat. So they would have to beef up human AI, because the machines at that time were pretty benign. Maybe an animated film would be good.
-Can't wait to see where the sequel goes. This game had so many red herrings, so many times I thought I knew what was coming next but was wrong. I'm sure we all think we know what a sequel will be but I doubt we will be right. Did anyone accurately predict the events of this game?
-Sylens is a great character. I'm sure he planned getting Hades back in his control, which is why he gave Aloy his spear. Probably created a backdoor somehow. I hope he doesn't become a villain but he definitely operates in a gray area.
He is kind of like a current day Faro but more interesting. I hope he captured Hades for good reasons. I wonder if he will find out where the signal came from and then enlist Aloy to go take them out. I guess that could make a good DLC which could further set up Horizon 2.
Lion Heart
Banned
How many years ago from Aloys timeline is ZD conceptualized? Either I missed it or they never said. I'm bad at drifting off during important expositions.
At the end when Elizabets grave is shown, how old is her corpse.
Thanks.
At the end when Elizabets grave is shown, how old is her corpse.
Thanks.
I think about 1000 years, a little bit short of that I think. Her corpse should be roughly the same. Most of the data logs have dates in them. I don't imagine Elisabet would have survived more than a couple days out there.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Zero Day (i.e. total extinction) happened 974 years before the beginning of the game, in 2066. Aloy was born in 3021 and the game is set in 3040.
The atmosphere of the planet was extremely toxic when she left to go home, so she probably didn't last for more than a few days. So yeah, probably around 974 years old.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
There wouldn't have been any bacteria to break down her body either for at least 50 years at minimum. So she mummified long before the biosphere was restored, why she is still physically intact after 974 years.
I've got a feeling that whatever those mercenaries that killed Rost's family were after is directly related to activation of HADES.
I've got a feeling that whatever those mercenaries that killed Rost's family were after is directly related to activation of HADES.
Berserker976
Member
This seems way more plausible to me than the Odyssey theories. There are deliberate question marks in that story Teersa tells you.
Now, whether that group could possibly be related to something else Ted Faro did 1,000 years ago, I'm less sure about that.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I don't know. They seemed to know exactly what they were after and exactly where to go to get it. I'm not sure how they would know without some kind of direction from an original human familiar with the GAIA system.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I have a hard time believing that evil forces from the "new humanity" would be capable of sending a signal to activate HADES and cause the other subtasks to go rogue.
The way I understood it the machines as well as the tribes, were peaceful before the signal.
Once the machines became aggressive and more dangerous the 13th Sun King tried to appease the sun by offering sacrifices in the form of members of other tribes. And so the red raids began.
The attack on the Nora, where Rosts daughter was killed, was just part of the red raids and not connected to HADES or the signal in any way.
Edit: Oh wait, Rosts daughter was killed before the red raids started. Hmm...
MaKTaiL
Member
Cool fun fact: earlier side quests in the Nora region have different dialog after Aloy becomes annointed. I saw an YouTuber today finding the Brom side quest for the first time after the "Heart of The Nora" main quest and Brom's sister actually calls Aloy annointed instead of outcast and she is actually overjoyed that Aloy is helping her. I'm sure the other side quests would have a similar outcome. You know when the developers have passion over a project when they actually think about these little details.
Go to 28:30 for the scene:
https://youtu.be/5zHDjdtdaXs
Go to 28:30 for the scene:
https://youtu.be/5zHDjdtdaXs
Also, the people who killed Ross's daughter weren't Carja.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Teersa said it was "12 outlanders".
What did they use the term for? Just people from outside of Nora land or people from outside of the known area?
Maybe they are a connection to civilization in different places of the earth.
But I still don't think that some tribal people would be able to reactivate HADES and alter the other subtasks.
I think whoever these people were, if they had anything to do with the signal, they acted as puppets for someone else.
I'm pretty sure the signal came from someone who is connected to the "old world"
STILLethal
Member
So Guerilla is finally able to get away from FPS/Killzone, makes an amazing open world, and people want an Enduring Victory FPS game? lol makes no sense
I'm wondering how they'll handle the expansion DLC, will it take place in the current state (where we're put in before the final quest) or will we have to finish the final quest again and then continue with the DLC.
I'm wondering how they'll handle the expansion DLC, will it take place in the current state (where we're put in before the final quest) or will we have to finish the final quest again and then continue with the DLC.
Just beat it.
Was a huge fan of the story from an overall plot and lore point of view, but from a character point of view I thought it suffered.
I definitely didn't care about Elisabet, but they made her such a focus. She was an incredibly lame 'saviour' character, and the fact that they did nothing to differentiate her from Aloy - she had the exact same voice actor and personality, which was silly - prevented me from believing in her as a real person at all.
Both Aloy and Elisabet needed some kind of flaw to make them interesting, to make them human. Had Elisabet been the one who caused the swarm the story would have been infinitely more interesting. It would make it a story of redemption for both her and Aloy, and Aloy would have had to process Elisabet's 'sins' as part of her heritage as her clone. As it was, when I got to the cutscene where Elisabet has to go outside to fix the seal I must confess my eyes were rolling out of the back of my head, and the urge to skip cutscene was strong. Hero worship out of all control.
Also, I agreed with Ted purging Apollo. Why burden a new generation with all the old knowledge that led us to ruin in the first place? Let them find their own path, and if they end up in the same place, so be it. At least it'll have taken them 100s of years getting there, in their own way.
Sylens was the best character in the game by a long, long way, and when he was involved the game was better for it. He was the only one who felt, to me, like a real person. Helped that he had a great voice actor, though I was disappointed that he never interrupted one of Aloy's tantrums with "This... is bull shit."
However the overall story of uncovering the mysteries of a world turned to ruin was great, and the lore of the various bunkers and the history of the Zero Dawn project - all of that was great, and that was what propelled you through the story.
EDIT: Was disappointed to never find out what happened to Rost and why he was outcast. Aloy mentioned his family at one stage in the final mission but that was the first I'd ever heard of them. I did all the side quests and errands so I'm not sure if I missed something.
Was a huge fan of the story from an overall plot and lore point of view, but from a character point of view I thought it suffered.
I definitely didn't care about Elisabet, but they made her such a focus. She was an incredibly lame 'saviour' character, and the fact that they did nothing to differentiate her from Aloy - she had the exact same voice actor and personality, which was silly - prevented me from believing in her as a real person at all.
Both Aloy and Elisabet needed some kind of flaw to make them interesting, to make them human. Had Elisabet been the one who caused the swarm the story would have been infinitely more interesting. It would make it a story of redemption for both her and Aloy, and Aloy would have had to process Elisabet's 'sins' as part of her heritage as her clone. As it was, when I got to the cutscene where Elisabet has to go outside to fix the seal I must confess my eyes were rolling out of the back of my head, and the urge to skip cutscene was strong. Hero worship out of all control.
Also, I agreed with Ted purging Apollo. Why burden a new generation with all the old knowledge that led us to ruin in the first place? Let them find their own path, and if they end up in the same place, so be it. At least it'll have taken them 100s of years getting there, in their own way.
Sylens was the best character in the game by a long, long way, and when he was involved the game was better for it. He was the only one who felt, to me, like a real person. Helped that he had a great voice actor, though I was disappointed that he never interrupted one of Aloy's tantrums with "This... is bull shit."
However the overall story of uncovering the mysteries of a world turned to ruin was great, and the lore of the various bunkers and the history of the Zero Dawn project - all of that was great, and that was what propelled you through the story.
EDIT: Was disappointed to never find out what happened to Rost and why he was outcast. Aloy mentioned his family at one stage in the final mission but that was the first I'd ever heard of them. I did all the side quests and errands so I'm not sure if I missed something.
so you'd send us back to the stone age right now, or?
You believe technology was the problem and people weren't? Why would throwing out knowledge result in less draconian outcomes? Actually, as we have already seen, barbaric things have already happened vis a vis Carja using slaves and sacrificing people.
Removing the lessons of history was a mistake, and Ted Faro ain't shit.
You could ask Teersa what happened with Rost after you come out of the All-Mother. There's several write-ups of it in this thread. It's a pretty sad story actually.
MaKTaiL
Member
I strongly believe we will get a Rost DLC. He traveled to great places that we didn't get to see with Aloy so that's a great premise.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
You probably missed this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDwufuKXJQ
After the quest where GAIA reveals why you exist, when you leave the facility you can talk to Teersa and she tells you Rosts story.
I wouldn't, but at least that would save us the threat of a nuclear apocalypse.
But if we WERE sent back to the stone age, I wouldn't see the need to send the knowledge that got us to such a dark place back with us. I suppose I'd have the exception of basic medecine, but if not possible I'd still say no.
There's just this beautiful attraction to wiping the slate clean and starting over, especially since I wouldn't be the one having to live without modern medecine or amenities.
We did this once - rose from the dirt to civilisation - so why not let it happen again naturally? Some allegiance to the people who come after? Whether you give them the knowledge or not, they'll all die eventually. We all do.
The game's demonisation of Ted went way too far. He wasn't that bad. It was Elisabet I couldn't stand.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
Dude just profited from warfare (that he created) and made unstoppable machines that lead to the total extinction of the planet. Then he unilaterally wiped the total sum of humanity's history and knowledge on a whim and condemned humanity to go through all the darkness we went through until we got modern medicine and real time communications.
Yeah, not that bad.
Berserker976
Member
Hey guys, I found Ted Faro's GAF account!
Lets not forget Ted basically caused the extinction of a good amount of the biodiversity in the world as humanity was supposed to be educated by Apollo and take over the reintroduction of the rest of the species.
He made peace keeping machines. As in, keeping the peace? Dude was responsible for taking human soldiers out of harm's way in war and ensuring peace around the globe.
As for the extinction thing, don't pin the results of an entire corporation on one man. Plenty of engineers were involved, Ted wasn't even that technical. No doubt a lot of Liz's engineering research for her med robots (robots that would never have been built without Ted's company) went into the Faro swarm. One could argue that as an engineer, she and the rest of Faro's engineers are the true villains.
Once extinction became likely, he does whatever it takes to secure humanities future, rather than just holing up in some palace with his trillion dollars. He even funds Liz's ludicrous ego-project to build Zero Dawn, the result of which appears largely to be to fulfil Liz's desire to create the most advanced AI imaginary friend of all time. Which is understandable because no one likes her.
Anyway, even if you want to pin all the blame on Ted for the swarm (ridiculous) that's just one thing. One mistake. Easy to type behind a keyboard and act like you've never made a mistake but we all do. His had somewhat large consequences, but it was just one mistake and was NOT intentional.
Argh, can't get my first ever Platinum because it's stuck at 98%. The only thing left to unlock is the training dummies, and I've gone around and counted (and re-bashed) 23 of the damn things around the Nora lands (taken from a guide I finally broke down and followed --- *and* a couple more outside of Nora lands) and it's refusing to unlock :-(
Ted's intentions was morally good at first but he wants to keep his image clean that led him to his decision to bring back humanity to stone age by wiping APOLLO and killing the Alphas. He believed that the humans will repeat the mistakes that he made.
Sure he made some good things back then, but given that his company was the sole reason why humans became extinct and he still came up with the decision to destroy its knowledge was unforgivable.
You need to do more note reading if you think Ted is a justified guy.
Miniature Kaiju
Member
His robots were about keeping peace about as much as nuclear weapons are. "Ensuring peace" is always about killing people, just a different brand of people.
One mistake following a complete, inexcusable lack of foresight. Self-replicating, self-sustaining, unhackable robots. What could go wrong, right?
Also, "somewhat large consequences" is trivializing total global extinction just a little bit.
You do know Aloy is a clone right?
Just turned my PS4 back on after a break and ... now it says I have the platinum. Go Sony!
Indeed, those notes about having customer fight customer to increase sales, oh boy. His company (and he by extension) is completely morally bankrupt. Also, you can just see it happening in reality (if it doesn't already).
The biosphere is still out of equilibrium. We don't know what made Hades and the rest go rogue. Gaia still needs to be rebuilt to save the world.
So, maybe. He did use Aloy, but we still don't know to what ends yet.
Of course I do, that makes no difference to my points - she should not have been the same personality with the same voice as Aloy. There's no way they'd sound the same, or have such similar speech patterns etc. Aloy felt less like a clone, and more Elisabet brought forward 976 years into the future fully intact.
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