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Paradox Grand Strategy - Thread of Fighting WW2 as Bithynia
- Thread starter Walshicus
- Start date
DukeLongfellow
Member
I have EUIV and have had a good amount of expansions for it but I never seem to take the time to take it in and dig deep. I loved EUIII but I am too engrossed in CK2. EUIV seems a bit impersonal by comparison.
I'm pretty much the same.
I keep thinking I'll get into EUIV properly some time down the road, but CK2 is the one that keeps calling me when ever I want some strategy gaming.
Shame too 'cause I've also got an absolutely sick amount of EUIV DLC and on top of that the presentation is so much more pretty and friendly than the older CK2.
I'll get there one day.
Arumba's tutorial series helped me get back into it. It's super long and I'm still awful at the game but helped me understand the workings a lot more:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWC4jPjzdV9H5TQ7vbrUDCWx
Anyway, this is the best thing I've achieved so far. Integrated Muscovy today, took fucking FOREVER:
CertifiedFP
Member
So uh, what is it that changed at Paradox during CK2 (Or Sengoku's (lol)) development that suddenly boosted their production values massively?
Because looking at their titles as late as 2011 (HoIDH), a year before CK2 came out, I'm seeing 480p (Maybe lower?) UI assets, 4:3 aspect locks, completely flat world maps, and extremely boxy unit models if not sprites. Among other nitpicks I get looking at screenshots of them that look strictly amateur in comparison to CK2/EU4/HOI4/Stellaris.
Because looking at their titles as late as 2011 (HoIDH), a year before CK2 came out, I'm seeing 480p (Maybe lower?) UI assets, 4:3 aspect locks, completely flat world maps, and extremely boxy unit models if not sprites. Among other nitpicks I get looking at screenshots of them that look strictly amateur in comparison to CK2/EU4/HOI4/Stellaris.
Basileus777
Member
CK2 was their first title that launched on Steam and hence was a breakout hit for them. Budgets are likely a lot larger nowadays as Paradox games sell much much better than they did in the pre-CK2 days.
Though the 4:3 thing was a limitation of their old pre-EU3 engine.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Darkest Hour was an extension of HOI2. It was less sophisticated than hoi3 and eu3 which both predate CK2 and are the missing link you're looking for.
Snakethesniper
Member
I fired up CK2 after a long time...I remember something, but I didn't have any DLC before. I have the The Old Gods one and I don't understand the tribal stuff. Where can I find some infos?
DukeLongfellow
Member
Speaking of learning, I realized that despite the endless amount of hours I put into CK2 I never actually had any sort of decent (or maybe any at all?) game as a republic. So I went head first, picked 876, Tradonico family in Venice, Ironman mode to get achievements as I have only a few in general.
Wow, I never expected such a shift. It's kind of mindboggling not to have to worry about land titles as much and instead focus on bulding up an entirely different type of "holding". The power play is actually pretty cool and, again, it's refreshing for the main arena of conflict to be on such a small scale compared to the rest of the government types.
But I don't feel I am getting the amount of money I should be. I have a bunch of trade posts in the Dalmatian coast (east Adriatic, provinces Zadar (Zara), Split (Spalato), Ragusa (Dubrovnik) but I am not sure if I should be focusing more on having fewer trade posts that have more upgrades and whether or not I should build outposts further away (which is more expensive)?
I saw a multiplayer game of Arumba, Shen and a few others (Doge of the Hill) where they wanted to build a trade post as close as possible to the silk road so I am wondering should probably aim to do that too.
I actually began watching that a few days ago but decided to favorite it and leave it for a later date. So I already had this in my sights but thank you regardless
I really like the fact that Arumba is teaching an actual perosn beside him and he asks pretty much all the questions I would.
Wow, I never expected such a shift. It's kind of mindboggling not to have to worry about land titles as much and instead focus on bulding up an entirely different type of "holding". The power play is actually pretty cool and, again, it's refreshing for the main arena of conflict to be on such a small scale compared to the rest of the government types.
But I don't feel I am getting the amount of money I should be. I have a bunch of trade posts in the Dalmatian coast (east Adriatic, provinces Zadar (Zara), Split (Spalato), Ragusa (Dubrovnik) but I am not sure if I should be focusing more on having fewer trade posts that have more upgrades and whether or not I should build outposts further away (which is more expensive)?
I saw a multiplayer game of Arumba, Shen and a few others (Doge of the Hill) where they wanted to build a trade post as close as possible to the silk road so I am wondering should probably aim to do that too.
I actually began watching that a few days ago but decided to favorite it and leave it for a later date. So I already had this in my sights but thank you regardless
I really like the fact that Arumba is teaching an actual perosn beside him and he asks pretty much all the questions I would.
Tribal can be so rough to get to grips with. Golden rule is to remember that in addition to checking their soldier count, you need to pay attention to whether opposing chiefs have the 500 prestige required to summon a 2500 strong stack for the duration of the war.
On the other hand, as a player you're often better off saving prestige for the buildings you can build with it and make do without the insta-stacks.
Snakethesniper
Member
I was playing a tribal game as Gotland in CK2 to try and get the acheivement for starting as Gotland and creating the Scandinavian Empire. Things were going well until I accidentally turned into a Feudal society...I don't even know how I did it! I captured the Norse holy site in Denmark, noticed it had a castle, noticed I could upgrade my holdings into castles after that, did so...and then realised I'd made a huge mistake as my troop levy nose dived. I didn't even have enough troops or ships to effectively raid.
That's when Francia attacked, took the Denmark holy site, my leader died and somehow an imbecile with 0 stats on everything inherited my Kingdom of Sweden, and the Templars started inheriting land in Denmark.
It was a cascade of shit that caused me to abandon the game, and start a new one as a Khazar vassal. That has been quite interesting, as I've not played as a horse lord before.
That's when Francia attacked, took the Denmark holy site, my leader died and somehow an imbecile with 0 stats on everything inherited my Kingdom of Sweden, and the Templars started inheriting land in Denmark.
It was a cascade of shit that caused me to abandon the game, and start a new one as a Khazar vassal. That has been quite interesting, as I've not played as a horse lord before.
Snakethesniper
Member
Is there a particular let's play, like one from Quill or Arumba, where they show/use assassination and marriage to conquer land without war?
Here's a video of DDR Jake talking about the upcoming Diplomatic Macro Builder for EU4. I've never been so excited over a quality of life improvement, but this looks spectacular.
hobblygobbly
Member
Yep and it's something I hope becomes a staple for Paradox games and they patch it into their existing games and in the future ones. EU:IV has a lot more diplo actions but it would still be beneficial in their other games.
Vici2 definitely was/is the hardest to learn imo.
Very rewarding though
So Paradox is fixing Monks and Mystics pretty quickly. Looks like it was rushed out the door.
They did say that they'll add some societies in the future. Just need to balance it so every Joe and Jane courtier isn't in a secret society. The idea to have them in general is cool though.
Still not sure why Paradox won't add secret Hellenic pagan cult though.
LurkerPrime
Member
Huh. Lame that they rushed it out like that, but I can't say I haven't been enjoying the current implementation. Sounds like great improvements.
And man, finally, vampire slayers have been added to Crusader Kings 2. It's been a long road.
Definitely need a "Chosen One" event to go with it. Embrace the mysticism, Paradox!
hobblygobbly
Member
Victoria series was never a game I got into initially when they came out, but I did put serious hours into learning it a while back. The EU and HoI series has always been my staple paradox games, I've been playing both since their first games.
First things first, wrap your head around its population (called pops) system. It is the most fundamental thing to understand, it is the pillar of the game.
By understanding it you will also in effect begin to understand the economy and military of the game by also understanding the pop demands.
Unlike their other games for example when it comes to military, there is no hard land force or manpower limit, it all comes from your population, particularly those that are soldiers. If not a lot of people are pursuing the soldier career in your country then you are going to have a weak military. Also when you call in all your reserves, your economy suffers, because some will convert from say, craftsmen to soldiers to add to your existing soldier population.
When you actually go to war and fight battles, those soldiers you lose stay dead, so big losses can have huge impact on the recovery of your economy post-war because they are dead and can't return to their former jobs, soldiers that were that as a career might not change careers to something else post-war, etc.
Also play the U.S as your first game (or any free market capitalist country like the U.S). The game is really much more complex when you play socialist/communist because you have the responsibility as the state of managing and owning production such as factories.
In a capitalist one like the U.S, your capitalists will take care of building factories, infrastructure, etc, but you can also subsidise them and fund them if you want to, or you can pass policies later that give you more intervention, or transform to socialism/communism.
With the U.S you have to deal with integrating Texas into the union, dealing with Mexico (you get these as decisions too), and also the eventual civil war unless you can manage to avert it.
Also let the AI manage trade itself, turning it off and manually doing it hinder your ability to learn and play the game and why I think it's turned on by default, in the past when I tried to get into it I'd try manage it myself and it never turned out well.
I'd actually like to see the Victoria 2 pops system in EU in some form, maybe something for EU 5, I think it could work well, and also Stellaris because I think Stellaris' is a bit too basic.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The most confusing parts of Victoria 2 are trying to understand why factories that were once profitable suddenly went bankrupt for no reason, and wrapping your head around what kinds of decisions you should be making. The game constantly barrages you with micro-scale decisions to make that each have no visible impact on anything, yet are all important in shaping how your country develops. The lack of feedback is what leads to a lot of opaque mechanics. Sure, you know you done fucked up when suddenly the whole country is rising up in revolt, but it may not be clear when you are leading yourself into more difficult situations by making poor decisions because they won't come back to bite you for years, and when they do it's not clear if it was inevitable or not.
V2 also expects you to be proactively doing things with your country but it's also not clear what you "should" be doing most of the time unless you know the game.
V2 also expects you to be proactively doing things with your country but it's also not clear what you "should" be doing most of the time unless you know the game.
So the new EU4 expansion and patch comes out next week and I've been having a bit of fun recently as Byzantium:
Now obviously I'm pretty strong at this point, the year is actually 1751 rather than the end date as I feel the games a bit of a cake walk at this point and the only thing I feel I can do is expand eastwards and recreate Alexander the Greats empire.
Religion:
Culture:
Ideas:
Combat:
Now with regards to combat, I'm pretty much set, I've got maximum manpower of 319K and I've got the buffs of having both Defender of the Faith and having prestige rest at 100. Both of these together mean that with my chosen ideas I can take pretty much anyone on.
If anyone wants to watch a video of my expansion, it's here. My strategy early game was pretty simple, instantly ally Candar and Trebizond to prevent a year one Ottoman attack. Then wait until the Ottomans attack Albania, in my game, Albania allied Hungary and was guaranteed by Serbia. I then allied Albania and joined the war. Once that war was won I waited for the Ottomans to attack the Mamaluks and did a second war. After that it was just a case of mopping them up. With the Ottomans out of the way I expanded both east and west but quickly got blocked in the west as Spain got a PU on France and the PLC got a PU on Austria, I am allied to Spain, PLC and Milan.
Now obviously I'm pretty strong at this point, the year is actually 1751 rather than the end date as I feel the games a bit of a cake walk at this point and the only thing I feel I can do is expand eastwards and recreate Alexander the Greats empire.
Religion:
Culture:
Ideas:
Combat:
Now with regards to combat, I'm pretty much set, I've got maximum manpower of 319K and I've got the buffs of having both Defender of the Faith and having prestige rest at 100. Both of these together mean that with my chosen ideas I can take pretty much anyone on.
If anyone wants to watch a video of my expansion, it's here. My strategy early game was pretty simple, instantly ally Candar and Trebizond to prevent a year one Ottoman attack. Then wait until the Ottomans attack Albania, in my game, Albania allied Hungary and was guaranteed by Serbia. I then allied Albania and joined the war. Once that war was won I waited for the Ottomans to attack the Mamaluks and did a second war. After that it was just a case of mopping them up. With the Ottomans out of the way I expanded both east and west but quickly got blocked in the west as Spain got a PU on France and the PLC got a PU on Austria, I am allied to Spain, PLC and Milan.
Are there any DLCs for EU4 that you lot would consider essential? I'm completely new to this so I'll be happy playing the base game for a while before I look at any extra content but there's always a chance that one of them adds some amazing new system or changes something that was dull in vanilla enough that it becomes great. So great that you can't stomach the game anymore without the improved dog biscuit system because the dog biscuits at launch were awful. That sort of thing.
Art of War or Common Sense.
I didn't write the article below, but I completely agree with it.
https://voxludicus.com/2016/06/28/a-short-guide-to-what-europa-universalis-iv-dlc-to-buy/
Note: I haven't played the two latest expansions, Rights of Man or Mare Nostrum. Perhaps someone else can comment on those.
I didn't write the article below, but I completely agree with it.
https://voxludicus.com/2016/06/28/a-short-guide-to-what-europa-universalis-iv-dlc-to-buy/
Note: I haven't played the two latest expansions, Rights of Man or Mare Nostrum. Perhaps someone else can comment on those.
Basileus777
Member
There's also the part where Paradox sometimes reworks a feature for an expansion and then completely removes the old version of that feature from those that don't buy it.
Art of War and Common Sense are essential. Playing the game without them is not recommended. You've then got Rights of Man and The Cossacks, which add some useful universal features, such as great power mechanics in Rights of Man, and estates and diplomatic options in The Cossacks.
The rest are situational, depending on what sort of nation you want to pick. You don't really need Res Publica if you're not going to play a Republic, for instance.
The rest are situational, depending on what sort of nation you want to pick. You don't really need Res Publica if you're not going to play a Republic, for instance.
superdeluxe
Member
Im way too excited for this. Literally a dream come true.
I hate April Fools
Ah man, the highs in CK2 are so high but the lows are just so low.
I was on top of the world in my current Norse Scandinavia game (about 200 years in). Was waging war in Finland to push out some eastern tribes and get a revolt at home that forces me to white peace and go focus on the home front. Then my emperor gets cancer and dies within a year... and since no one wanted to help me put my kid in power as my heir I lost my emperor title and two of my kingdoms and am now just a depressed king of Norway. I commit suicide since my heir was the guy the leading the revolt and end up winning the revolt... unfortunately I wasn't able to install myself back on the throne.
Decided to give the game up and just watch the game go on in observer mode. Just dont have it in me to retake the throne again (lost my main title about 75 years before because of elective monarchy). People tell me that elective monarchy is good but every time I try it I just get wrecked lol. I was primogeniture before but lost it at some point (can't remember why) and wasnt able to get it back before my guy died of cancer and i lost my spot on the big throne
I love CK2 but I never end up finishing a campaign like I do with other Paradox games. I still have never seen a Mongol invasion! Its always about the fourth time I have to rebuild everything from scratch where I decide to throw in the towel.
I was on top of the world in my current Norse Scandinavia game (about 200 years in). Was waging war in Finland to push out some eastern tribes and get a revolt at home that forces me to white peace and go focus on the home front. Then my emperor gets cancer and dies within a year... and since no one wanted to help me put my kid in power as my heir I lost my emperor title and two of my kingdoms and am now just a depressed king of Norway. I commit suicide since my heir was the guy the leading the revolt and end up winning the revolt... unfortunately I wasn't able to install myself back on the throne.
Decided to give the game up and just watch the game go on in observer mode. Just dont have it in me to retake the throne again (lost my main title about 75 years before because of elective monarchy). People tell me that elective monarchy is good but every time I try it I just get wrecked lol. I was primogeniture before but lost it at some point (can't remember why) and wasnt able to get it back before my guy died of cancer and i lost my spot on the big throne
I love CK2 but I never end up finishing a campaign like I do with other Paradox games. I still have never seen a Mongol invasion! Its always about the fourth time I have to rebuild everything from scratch where I decide to throw in the towel.
Does it?
Really basic stuff about Vicky 2:
Encourage clergy in your most populous states until it hits 4%, then go on down the line. This isn't mandatory for high literacy nations (France, Prussia), but if you're anyone else it is. You need to hit a certain literacy rate before you can get craftsmen, clerks, and capitalists (I think you can get some from immigration, but your pops won't naturally promote). If your pops are ignorant, you're not having any sort of industry. You want these pops because they pay more taxes as part of the middle and upper classes. Your tech rate is partly determined by your literacy, so you want to educate the masses as soon as possible.
Goods can be made through one of two ways: artisans or factories. Artisans are better than factories early, but once factories get better through tech, they start getting way better. Craftsmen are the grunts who do the bulk of factory work, clerks make your factories a lot more efficient (think of them as middle managers), and capitalists build stuff for you if your political party allows it (if your party doesn't allow for them to build stuff, they're kind of worthless except for the taxes and the slight bonus they give your factories). Coal and iron are pretty important for any sort of industry (especially for building up stuff for your army/infrastructure). Liberal parties kind of suck for managing industry (since they generally close down your factories that aren't making profits), but they let you pass reforms over time which gives you a boost to immigration (which is pretty important. since everything revolves around your pops).
If you're a great power, you can sphere nations and form a common market where you get priority on their goods and they can buy your stuff without tariffs. This is good, because otherwise your priority on goods on the world market is based on your rank. Ehh... I guess there is a lot of interacting crap that's hard to explain all once.
Here's a diagram showing which techs are really important.
http://i.imgur.com/vwd7jUG.png
It basically goes: philosophy techs are mega important (otherwise you fall behind in tech very fast). Political thought techs are also super important, they're how you control what pops are encouraged. And medicine and organic chemistry drastically decrease the rate of awful disease events that destroy your pops. Military techs are important too, or you tend to get rolled in wars.
Also if you want to get really strong, get nationalism and imperialism, get all the military techs, then start stealing China's land for the glorious pops (sphere most of their sub-states first so they don't participate in the war).
Yeah, one thing I forgot is national focuses are how you encourage certain populations. It's under the population tab or you can access it in each state too if you know exactly where you want something. The general progression for what you want to be doing with your focuses is: clergy->capitalists->craftsmen->clerks. And then soldiers when you need. You can kind of skip the clergy step for a lot of the great powers depending on what exactly you're doing. Educated populace first, then capitalists to build stuff (because a lot of political parties don't let you build industry directly), then start filling up the factories with workers, capping it off with management. You need ~30% (maybe 40%, I forget) literacy before craftsmen become available and 50% for clerks.
Also I recommend playing one of the great powers first (I wouldn't go any lower than Belgium or the Two Sicilies), because the game isn't particularly kind to nations that have to westernize or are minor powers. Japan isn't that bad, China is okay if you know what you're doing, but anyone else it is hard to figure out what to do because the extra constraints suck and you're going to flop if you don't have a strong grasp of the game(South America looks deceivingly easy for a new player, but the lack of coal and iron makes it reaaallly hard to manage industry, ditto for anyone in Asia that isn't China, Japan, or Russia). This is completely different from CK2 or EU4.
keraj37
Member
In terms of EU4 I strongly recommend just go through builtin tutorial, and then just learn during play.
I did it like this, and after few hours I was understanding core features, and after 26h (Steam log) I know almost everything.
And the good about this approach is that you really have better feeling of achievement learning by your own.
Also thanks to this you memorize much faster.
I still like me some Civ, but yeah, Total War feels like a complete waste of time when there is EU.