Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Microsoft just revealed the console that will be the most powerful console on the market by some margin and you're wondering how the reveal thread on GAF became a dumpster fire?
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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio
- Thread starter LelouchZero
- Start date
Microsoft just revealed the console that will be the most powerful console on the market by some margin and you're wondering how the reveal thread on GAF became a dumpster fire?
worrying about performance problems because of af16 is FUD.
You either don't know what dumpster fire is or a neogaf hardware thread.
Yes...because we've known this for months, just like we knew Zen wasn't going to be in it, just like we knew MS was launching a year later for a reason...why is it all of a sudden a shock now?
Playstation fanboys getting insecure? Don't worry about a thing, i doubt Scorpio will be able to take Playstation 4's top spot, this is about appealing to the Xbox consumer and making them satisfied. Happy now?
I'm seriously irritated at the mental gymnastics some people are pushing.
"See its not THAT strong cause its not got FP16 and unique vega customizations. Jesus, could some be any more rattled?
They should be happy MS is coming out and doing Scorpio right. They are actually doing software compatibility with previous software right without any of Pro's fuck ups. This means Sony has an opportunity to learn from MS's example and take some damn notes next time.
They are one in the same usually, but this thread is even worse than the Switch hardware reveal IMO. Mostly because the wailing and ghashing of teeth is off the charts, whether coming from either PC users or Playstation users and there's no justification for that
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It would be fitting if Sony just put a teaser out with "PS5... 12 TFLOPS... TBA" (no release date in sight) and people started calling Scorpio half assed... and the circus started again...
MilkyJoe
Member
This is the thing that always confuses me, who honestly cares which team comes in top spot. I can't understand how my playing Red Dead 2, supersampled, on my spanky new Scorpio is going to be ruined if PS sell more pro than scorpios.
Because people have to feel like the hardware team they've invested themselves personally into is 'winning' to have some sort of self fulfillment in their lives i guess.
All that personally interests me is PS4's success, because i want more games and support on the platform i own. I care not about team loyalty and i certainly don't care about technical rod measuring contests.
It'll be the same when i eventually get a Switch as well.
I have no interest in owning a Scorpio or any future game console of MS's after the DRM nonsense, something i swore on back at that time.
But even i, who has no real connection to the Xbox brand anymore outside of my 360 S and games, even i can tell that this entire thread has been a constant stream of embarrassment from those seeking to downplay the fact that Scorpio's hardware is superior to the Playstation 4 Pro's.
I don't get it, i never came across these sorts of things when PS1 or PS2 was beating the competition despite being weaker...so why do some people feel the need to try and turn themselves into pretzels to destroy Scorpio even if the arguments they are making make no sense?
Again, Sony is already winning the "war" some guys are fighting by a large margin. There isn't even a point to downplaying Scorpio in the first place, even if they wanted to follow that childish angle.
*EDIT*
Sorry to anyone who had to read my rant. I just had to vent cause i get more irritated the more this stuff comes up.
Well the initial E3 reveal by Spencer was: "Today marks the beginning of gaming beyond generations." This was understood in contrast to the PS4 Pro which was announced as a 4k stopgap solution. Now Scorpio has been mostly unveiled and it is exactly a stopgap console like the Pro, build from the same building blocks and on the same manufacturing process at the same plant the Pro was build, but one year later.
Technologically there's no reason Scorpio couldn't have launched along the PS Pro (at a different price point).
So if I'm a bit salty it's because Microsoft appears to be late and makes this up by making everybody wait. They effectively employed a scorched earth tactic cannibalizing both their own and Sony's sales.
How do you know they didn't have a good reason? Maybe they started later than Sony did? Maybe they needed to secure higher quality parts like the vapor chamber technology to keep heat down with that power draw and bigger GPU/CPU clocks and the GDDR5 RAM? Maybe they needed time to arrange their parts in a way that they could also use an internal power supply?
Making quality machines take time, i think its premature at the very least to assume they were wasting anyone's time.
They still came out much stronger than Pro, what else really matters?
Are you REALLY suggesting that if MS didn't come out with Vega/Zen combo or some other unpractical thing, it was a waste of people's time?
Gaming beyond generations only meant software wise, they were going with forwards compatibility and very good backwards compatible software support. Nothing more nothing less.
geordiemp
Member
You made me laugh this morning sir, thank you, we need more light hearted. But your comment is not that crazy, this will be the way of things.
Ps4 was 2013, Ps4 pro was 2016, Ps5 will be guess what ? Xb2 guess what ?
I bet MS and Sony are working on Zen and Vega next consoles already.
My main excitement is ZEN, a 3Ghz CPU doing 70 % more work per cycle means 60 FPS gaming for what would normally be 30 FPS today on console and great for VR.
But for 2018 and maybe some of 2019 Scorpio will be the strongest console for sure.
They created an atmosphere of uncertainty around the PS4 pro and made the concept look (as turns out now) unnecessarily half-baked.
Regardng the fabled "forward compatibilty": That comes down to better frames rates in stress situations and AF16 on old titles, doesn't it? Is that everything you expected from that?
Dude, its PR...what do you expect? Of course they are going to try and throw shade and the competition's approach, that's what they are supposed to do! They didn't lie about anything or mislead you
In regards to forwards compatibility, its not just playing of old software on Scorpio, its their approach across both XB1 and Scorpio to play the same games with noone left behind.
Sure its the same basic concept as PS4 and PS4 Pro that i think will no longer apply once PS5 comes out, but do they really have to say this for you to know?
PS5 will probably be navi oriented on some lower process node, whatever they are working on now is probably still in a very half baked state.
And again, we always say it, Zen is not going to automatically put out 60fps, its going to have devs put that power into whatever they want, be it 30fps games with using all the juice to create higher tier games, or otherwise.
You haven't seen cringe until you hear Saddam launching missles with PS2 and PS3 and 360 both being over 2tflops, or PS3 being the same concept as the matrix with stupid code names for the inner components like "emotion engine" and "reality synthesizer"
Trust me, today's publisher talk is absolutely tame, which makes the online back and forth more annoying, as that's gotten more irritating as time goes on
geordiemp
Member
Devs can do what they want ofcourse, but with MUCH faster hardware, devs will always have the OPTION to offer any game at 1080p60 if they wanted, or offer the user the option.
Thats the point, and as most AAA third party release on PC at 60 FPS, it has a good chance of being the norm, as it is just not possible now.
Sony
Nintendo
I'm not even sure Forza 7 Scorpio will look much better than PS4 GTsport to be honest. GT games' lighting just makes them luck better than their, sometimes, more technically advanced Forza competitors.
Nothing, that's OK. But you don't have to wonder where the negativity comes from.
All of this is backward compatibility.
The only reasonable interpretation of "forward compatible" games is that they will take advantage of future hardware. Like, for example, most titles will run in 4k day one or something. 16xAF is better than nothing in this regard and definitely makes up the promise, but that - like the whole console - falls short of initial, (more) reasonable expectations and that's at least not good PR and at worst, as I said, a calculated scorched earth tactic at the whole market's expense.
Edit: and yes that's reminiscent of the PS2 vs. Dreamcast campaign. It's not unprecedented but also nothing to be content with.
wesleyshark
Banned
What Scorpio has been revealed to be is seemingly a bit better than what they teased last year so I'm not sure where all of these dashed expectations are coming from.
Bitch Pudding
Member
In which regard exactly, if I may ask? Because I for one think they delivered exactly what they promised (and I mean that in a positive way).
I am sure we will get a few before e3 but the bulk of the good stuff is bound to be saved.
Agree with you there, Forza just looks a bit cartoonish.
I'm speaking for him here but I'm going to say the forced 16xAF and automatic use of Scorpio's umph.
wesleyshark
Banned
In regards to how they are treating current Xbox One games and 360 games (if it ends up working out how they claim), in improving them across the board.
And perhaps that isn't them delivering more than promised exactly, as we just didn't have those details at E3 last last year.
Yep that's what I'm referring to
Wednesday supposedly gamesutra article.
geordiemp
Member
Scorpio is great, and MS including a vortex liquid cooler and upping clocks should be the norm for the enthusiast box. I say this as a Pro user.
It also brings back a bit of a power race, which is needed, as Sony were too conservative with the Pro, they could of easily added 50 bucks for a cooler and upped clocks. The base units are for volume.
I've posted 44 times in here? What is my life.
If a game is 30fps and not 60, that is a sacrifice just like now for something else. Its not as simple as saying every game is able to be 60fps because those targeting 30 obviously wont be
'50 bucks for a cooler and upped clocks'?
Hindsight is great is it not? Their entire approach with Pro was because specifically the concept of using a vapor chamber type cooler was not in the cards, as it is likely more expensive in line with Scorpio's likely higher price range(and even then who knows what MS might be loosing on the Scorpio per unit)
Sony had a budget and a design they wanted to go with and they implemented that. Its nowhere near as simple as just slapdashing some parts together on short notice and upping the price a bit
They don't design hardware in their bedrooms. Stuff like this doesn't work like that. There's a lot of overhead and process in a business before the actual hardware change would happen.
Sad Affleck
Member
I agree with that, but I disagree with your approach of telling hurt platform warriors "don't worry, your favorite platform is still cool, everything will be alright." Coddling them isn't going to have any sort of meaningful result. I am a strong believer in telling the truth and letting the facts speak for themselves. We shouldn't mince words just because a platform warrior's feelings might be hurt or the hype train might be derailed. To that effect, here are some facts about Scorpio as I perceive them based on all available information.
Scorpio will be the most powerful console in the market when it is released and it will have a commanding lead in performance over the PS4 Pro. Multiplatform games will most likely look and probably run noticeably better on Scorpio compared to the PS4 Pro.
Scorpio's Jaguar CPU, evolved or not, will significantly limit the console's ability to provide any meaningful framerate boost over the PS4 Pro or even the Xbox One in games that run at 30 fps. Don't expect multiplatform games that run at 30 fps on Pro to run at 60 fps on Scorpio. It's not going to happen.
Scorpio will perform in the same ballpark as similar PC hardware. It will not magically punch way above its weight or compete with $500 GPUs.
Then why are you in this thread? This is why these threads become dumpster fires; it's because people with no interest in the actual topic come in and shit on it because it's not aligned with their platform of choice or their game franchise of choice, etc. If you are a Sony person and have no interest in Xbox that is fine, but then stop waisting time in these threads.
While I like the idea of this board being broad and inclusive of all consoles, I sometimes also wish GAF had dedicated boards to specific consoles where the melodramatic bullshit that happens in pretty much every thread like this wouldn't be tolerated.
geordiemp
Member
A vortex cooler are 40 to 50 bucks to you and I, END selling PRICE, I think MS or sony buying a few million at trade pricing might be a bit more favourable, so again, adding 50 to console end price is reasonable.
And yes clock changes are free, they have to do the work on clocks anyway, so in allot of design cases I agree with you, but not cooler and clocks, thats easy to estimate for anyone.
Sony obviously thought 10 to 20 % on clocks was not worth 50 bucks on the price of Pro, MS disagrees. It always bugs me that console designs often cheap out on cooling, so well done MS.
No they dont, but my bedroom opinion on this matter is as valid as your bedroom debunk. MS went for Vortex cooling for more clocks, Sony did not, so it is a valid choice.
Also add something to the point, less of the ad hominem and cheapening peoples discussion, its crap and you know it. If you can counter any point I said, then do it. I dont need your condescending attitude.
Seems tame compared to others numbers.
Especially when you look at the content! 😆
Wow, well that's what the combination of having a two day long blackout, insomnia, and an absent significant other during a big reveal will do to you.
This is all correct.
Do we know what the article contains?
wesleyshark
Banned
I'm just glad you took over as the top poster in this thread lol. 😬
Not really, no, other than something to do with the developer side.
The gamasutra article is supposedly just 1st party impressions so MS can control the message and maximize damage control. Even if they include 3rd party devs, I'm sure they'll be paid off by MS so they can still control the narrative.
/s
DF said Microsoft was gonna fine-tune the titles iirc, probably disabling the additional AF/Vsync option when needed. We don't know how sophisticated this will be, but I think it's safe to assume there won't be any games that end up running like they did on the Pro without Boost mode.
I'm more interested in the developer story around Scorpio than anything else just because it's devkit is supposed to be "the" devkit for all Xbox game development (meaning across console to Windows 10). I'm interested into seeing how they make that possible or their strategy for that I should say. Obviously more details will come at //build/.
Fanmade. I do like the name tho.
Yeah, I actually like that name.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Fanmade. I do like the name tho.
Pretty solid image there. and yeah, I like the name. Somehow, I think they will go with a more flashy color scheme if not different design, but I really like that combination of colors and design.
CRAIG667
Member
wesleyshark
Banned
Slightly larger than the One S, judging by the size of the motherboardMan, with the liquid cooling I am so curious about how small this thing will be.
Okami Haundo
Member
I've been thinking about how Microsoft really hit things out of the park with this initial "reveal" lately. It was really smart of them to let Digital Foundry do the talking with first-hand information rather than leaks.
I'm really curious to see how they'll handle Scorpio's presence at E3 now. Sony already proved that doing a 1080p livestream isn't the best option to try showing off 4K content. Anyone have ideas for what they might do?
I'm kind of expecting them to only show Xbox One S footage on stage. They can then just mention a few ways that Scorpio can improve each game and point people towards the Scorpio version footage on Youtube etc...
I'm really curious to see how they'll handle Scorpio's presence at E3 now. Sony already proved that doing a 1080p livestream isn't the best option to try showing off 4K content. Anyone have ideas for what they might do?
I'm kind of expecting them to only show Xbox One S footage on stage. They can then just mention a few ways that Scorpio can improve each game and point people towards the Scorpio version footage on Youtube etc...