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[AtomskEater]

But... They aren't even human.

Mario Kart is really not the gaming franchise to discuss when talking about diversity and representation in games, there are like only four human characters? If we can call them that, Peach is from the toad species as far as I know

Most of the characters aren't human but they just happen to have skin tones on the lighter side more often than not. People are just glad they can finally see some representation among skin colors within the game.

 

[wartama]

The 'prophet/prophecy' nouns have been tarnished in this thread. Way to disgrace yourselves, guys.
I can't get my head around the line of thinking that, in anime/manga/game/whathaveyou, dark skin must be tanned. Like, the fact that people who are born with non-white skin tones do not exist in media (or maybe should not exist). And saying that Japanese authors/artists/devs aren't thinking their characters are 'black' is bordering on ignorance. Like, did they themselves say 'these characters are tanned and no, we weren't thinking of brown/black people when we made these characters', or are you putting words into their mouths? Yes, in AC New Leaf the characters were white who could get a tan. But in Splatoon, it's clear they included the choice to choose your skin colour, to make the skin tone whatever you prefer it to be. Shades of white, brown and black.
It's mind-boggling how you can think otherwise.
As for Nintendo making PoC characters, with Splatoon they're heading in the right direction, and Code Name Steam had a third of the cast as PoC (also a third of the cast were female. Man I'm so salty that no one supported the game when it had one of the most diverse cast Nintendo ever made>
Let's hope they make new Ips with black protagonists and add PoC characters to existing ones.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Big ups to my blinklings

doing the same

Nintendo needs a Diversity push, they could have easily added a black ARMS fighter too smh

Seriously, how you gonna have a boxing game with no black dudes lol

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Is the focus on black because gaf is mainly America? Because its always about the black race with these talks and never about other races.

Maybe. It relates to the OP and others here, the skin tones can be what you want it to be. They aren't specified. African Americans are not the only race with those skin colors, many races have shades of darker skin tones.

 

[ryechu]

Is the focus on black because gaf is mainly America? Because its always about the black race with these talks and never about other races.

I feel as though its generally accepted that race related issues are worst for blacks at least in America. Personally, I think that because of this, there was a greater concerted effort towards representation of black people in media specifically television and film, compared to representation of other minorities such as Asians and Latinos. But we are talking about video games and a good chunk of video games are developed by Japan, where this hasn't happened. So there is no shortage of representation of White-looking and Asian-looking characters. Personally, concerning my own representation, I would prefer if more Asian characters made by either the west or Japan weren't heavily cultured, but I have nowhere near as many problems with Asian or Asian-American representation in video games, as I do with film. Either way, Nintendo hasn't been good with creating non-white characters, partially because most of their characters were created in the 80s. Most of their characters are based on European archetypes,. Even when you consider how cartoon art is perceived among different cultures, the only characters that are clearly not white are most Pokemon protagonists, the Pikmin humanoids, Ganondorf, and the Inklings.

 

[Osukaa]

Is the focus on black because gaf is mainly America? Because its always about the black race with these talks and never about other races.

Hmmm i'm actually curious about an outsiders (By which I mean not in the US) perspective of this thread.

 

[mantidor]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=112127743&postcount=1

idk, a lot of them are baby variants but even there that's immediately 7 white people

Well I really don't count the babies as actual characters. And toad is too removed from actual human features for me to consider him humanoid.

The Mario universe is too whimsical and stylized, but it's great if people like this skin tone options, I really never look for them except in games where you build your character and it would be just odd to not have your skin tone as an option. But in Mario? I don't know.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Is the focus on black because gaf is mainly America? Because its always about the black race with these talks and never about other races.

this is my fault, and I apologise for that. I should've put PoC in the OP and title, as that is less regional & specific.

Well I really don't count the babies as actual characters. And toad is too removed from actual human features for me to consider him humanoid.

The Mario universe is too whimsical and stylized, but it's great if people like this skin tone options, I really never look for them except in games where you build your character and it would be just odd to not have your skin tone as an option. But in Mario? I don't know.

There are 7 non baby, non Toad-cap humanoids - Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, Rosalina, Wario, Waluigi - and they're all white.

 

[jdstorm]

doing the same

Nintendo needs a Diversity push, they could have easily added a black ARMS fighter too smh

Well if trailer screenshots are anything to go by, Im pretty sure that there is one. She just hasn't been announced yet.

Speaking of Diversity. Xeno X on the Wii U wasn't very cultured for a city based on LA, but it did have a non white female main character (Elma) so at least thats a start.

Edit: Not from the US. Every different country/region seems to have its own racial baggage. For instance many western countries don't really differentiate between different Asian ethnicities (Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Vietnamese, Thai ect) its normally reduced to Asian, Indian and Middle Eastern.

However having characters of multiple ethnicities isnt any extra work, so why not have them. After all Mario is an Italian plumber from Brooklyn. He probably should have some culturally diverse friends. There isn't a good reason why the next Rosalina type supporting character couldnt have a different skin tone. So why not just do it.

 

[Bahorel]

Well I really don't count the babies as actual characters. And toad is too removed from actual human features for me to consider him humanoid.

The Mario universe is too whimsical and stylized, but it's great if people like this skin tone options, I really never look for them except in games where you build your character and it would be just odd to not have your skin tone as an option. But in Mario? I don't know.

Splatoon is a game of customizable characters. They are in mariokart with some custom options here too. It makes sense.

 

[13randO]

Maybe. It relates to the OP and others here, the skin tones can be what you want it to be. They aren't specified. African Americans are not the only race with those skin colors, many races have shades of darker skin tones.

Exactly. There aren't names associated with the skin colours, so you go for what's closer to you, or what you want. I'm a decently tanned Caribbean dude, but I usually choose what most on its thread to consider to be the black skin tone. It's about more choices; and it's a welcome one at that. I love that I can make my inkling avatar in Splatoon (and now in MK8) look more like myself.

Seriously, how you gonna have a boxing game with no black dudes lol

 

[Mory Dunz]

ARMS has a dark skinned person. No one knows what race she is yet.


They also seem to have 1-2 JP people (?) and one Chinese?
Then Master Mummy who it's unknown....but knowing fighting games and their stereotyping...Egpytian?

chill on these ARMs. It might have more non-whites than whites, not including non humans.

 

[PSqueak]

Is the focus on black because gaf is mainly America? Because its always about the black race with these talks and never about other races.

When people talk on diversity in general, other races join in, then again, i have been through the entire thread and im mexican (and brought it up in a way how i can relate to the desire to see more diversity), this one focuses on Black representation because how undeniably black the inklings look in MK.

 

[Village]

Seriously, how you gonna have a boxing game with no black dudes lol

But season 2 balrog in ARMS

 

[PrinnyBomb]

they're also the first inklings in a Mario Kart game ever.

 

[Chindogg]

TFW the mummy boxer is the black boxer.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

I wouldn't count tanned people as being black, but I can't complain about a bit more variety. Whatever makes people happy.

 

[Enzom21]

I wouldn't count tanned people as being black, but I can't complain about a bit more variety. Whatever makes people happy.

Tanned? How dark does someone have to be before you consider them black?
On a scale of Jesse Williams to Wesley Snipes, what's the cut off for you?

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Tanned? How dark does someone have to be before you consider them black?
On a scale of Jesse Williams to Wesley Snipes, what's the cut off for you?

Since the only difference is the skin tone, they just look to me like tanned Inklings. If you see them as black Inklings, be my guest.

And just so you know, this has nothing to do with how dark their skin is.

 

[Dereck]

Since the only difference is the skin tone, they just look to me like tanned Inklings. If you see them as black Inklings, be my guest.

And just so you know, this has nothing to do with how dark their skin is.

Are Inklings with lighter skin tones untanned?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Since the only difference is the skin tone, they just look to me like tanned Inklings. If you see them as black Inklings, be my guest.

And just so you know, this has nothing to do with how dark their skin is.

they're black

 

[Dereck]

they're black

lmao

 

[Enzom21]

Since the only difference is the skin tone, they just look to me like tanned Inklings. If you see them as black Inklings, be my guest.

And just so you know, this has nothing to do with how dark their skin is.

Ah so they don't look distinctly black to you huh? How should a black person look?

 

[NimbusD]

Sooooooo...Racism=ok as long as it's directed towards whitey. Got it. /S

Acknowledging white people are priveleged is racism? Well now...

Race based privilege isn't an inheritance trait of a race, it's a product of our current society and (relatively) recent history. A white person isn't priveliged because their white, it's because society grants white people certain priveliged over other races. Part of the inherent problem with that privilege is that people don't have to acknowledge that it exists to receive the benefits. Calling out a white person as being oblivious to it isn't being racist because their obliviousness is central to the priveliged itself, which again isn't seeded in their race, but the value that society places on their race.

To give some obvious perspective...We're having a pages long discussion about the first black characters in a game series, a thread that would literally never happen in reverse in Ernest.


Edit:

Holy shit at the ignorance in this thread. People saying 'only the skin tone is changed so it doesn't count as black' as if being black requires outward appearance changes other than their skin color? People saying arms can't have a black character because there's already someone who reps a record label? Jesus. I hope these people are just young and haven't yet given much thought to issues of race (yet they seem confident enough to jump head first into deciding exactly how race has to be portrayed properly lol)

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You know, people in Japan are actually aware that black people and other people with naturally darker skin tones exist.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Since the only difference is the skin tone, they just look to me like tanned Inklings. If you see them as black Inklings, be my guest.

And just so you know, this has nothing to do with how dark their skin is.

1) I really don't understand this. You know there are limits to the darkness a person can achieve through tanning, right? A lot of lighter skinned people don't produce enough of the brown pigment to override the pink/red pigment that is also generated by melanin.

2) What evidence do you have to think that they are tanned? In the original Splatoon it is even referred to as selecting a "skin tone", not selecting a "tan level"

 

[Bahorel]

Since the only difference is the skin tone, they just look to me like tanned Inklings. If you see them as black Inklings, be my guest.

And just so you know, this has nothing to do with how dark their skin is.

You really think the girl in the back is more likely to be tanned than a girl with naturally dark skin?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You really think the girl in the back is more likely to be tanned than a girl with naturally dark skin?

PoC? in my games?

 

[Enzom21]

You really think the girl in the back is more likely to be tanned than a girl with naturally dark skin?

Naw she's just a really tan white person.

 

[R00bot]

I'm not one of the people who complained back when MK8 had no black characters, but I really do love the diversity Splatoon offers whilst still being distinctly Splatoon squid kids. It's looking like Arms might have some of that diversity in there too, which is great. I love how these new IP from Nintendo are much more willing to get with the times I guess (what with Splatoon being basically online only and having free updates all the time and stuff).

It's very promising that Nintendo is able to innovate like this, catch up to modern standards (somewhat), and still deliver a game that feels very Nintendo and different to other games.

 

[King Gilga]

They're hardly black, ambiguously brown at best.

Why jump straight to black?

 

[TheSun]

Man, looks like this thread is gonna be stuck in a "they're tan, not black" cycle.

Like, is it the tentacles that throw folk off?

 

[EloquentM]

They're hardly black, ambiguously brown at best.

Why jump straight to black?

Sigh

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Are Inklings with lighter skin tones untanned?

Yes? They sure don't look tanned.

Ah so they don't look distinctly black to you huh? How should a black person look?

I'm not from the US, man. I don't judge people's ethnicities by their skin tone. If you play animal crossing and get a tan, do you say your character became black?

 

[darklin0]

You really think the girl in the back is more likely to be tanned than a girl with naturally dark skin?

I have a cousin with that skin tone. :shock: Some people can't handle this. lol

 

[Bahorel]

Acknowledging white people are priveleged is racism? Well now...

Race based privilege isn't an inheritance trait of a race, it's a product of our current society and (relatively) recent history. A white person isn't priveliged because their white, it's because society grants white people certain priveliged over other races. Part of the inherent problem with that privilege is that people don't have to acknowledge that it exists to receive the benefits. Calling out a white person as being oblivious to it isn't being racist because their obliviousness is central to the priveliged itself, which again isn't seeded in their race, but the value that society places on their race.

To give some obvious perspective...We're having a pages long discussion about the first black characters in a game series, a thread that would literally never happen in reverse in Ernest.

that person you're replying to belongs on https://www.reddit.com/r/AsABlackMan/

I also just realized that Prophet was the person that was banned earlier and this person is Prophecy....possibly related?

 

[Chindogg]

Fellow white folks, can we just let black folks appreciate characters that at least resemble their skin tone? Why bother arguing over how dark they are? Let them have this.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Yes? They sure don't look tanned.



I'm not from the US, man. I don't judge people's ethnicities by their skin tone. If you play animal crossing and get a tan, do you say your character became black?

black isn't an ethnicity.

but regardless, could you please provide evidence for why you think these inklings are just tanned?

in splatoon 1 you chose skin tone, not tan level. i don't really see what other discussion there can be.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Fellow white folks, can we just let black folks appreciate characters that at least resemble their skin tone? Why bother arguing over how dark they are? Let them have this.

If black people have this, then that'll only encourage them


Pretty soon, we'll have to put up with black protagonists in our fantasy RPG games—our immersion will be destroyed

 

[Enzom21]

Yes? They sure don't look tanned.



I'm not from the US, man. I don't judge people's ethnicities by their skin tone. If you play animal crossing and get a tan, do you say your character became black?

There are only black people in the US? You specifically said you thinking they're not black has nothing to do with their skin tone. So what is it? Do they not have what you consider "black features?"

 

[PSqueak]

Holy shit at the ignorance in this thread. People saying 'only the skin tone is changed so it doesn't count as black' as if being black requires outward appearance changes other than their skin color? People saying arms can't have a black character because there's already someone who reps a record label? Jesus. I hope these people are just young and haven't yet given much thought to issues of race (yet they seem confident enough to jump head first into deciding exactly how race has to be portrayed properly lol)

For fuck's sake, did you people actually read my post? I was listing examples of shit i explicitly expect them NOT TO DO TO THE BLACK CHARACTER because it would be not only be racist but also IT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE.

The post was replying to the idea of "a black character dressed with a KFC bucket in his head" because of Min Min, my post was driving attention about how stupid the idea of a racist black character would be and how i think they wouldn't be stupid enough to make such choices if even only because those themes are already covered, because as much as i want to believe nintendo wouldn't do a stupid racist idea, i know that kind of shit still filters into japanese games.

I have been abogating for diversity and better representation on this thread the entire time.

Goddamit man, we're on the same team, learn to read!

 

[King Gilga]

Fellow white folks, can we just let black folks appreciate characters that at least resemble their skin tone? Why bother arguing over how dark they are? Let them have this.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize the world consisted solely of black and white people.

These inklings could be black, or indian, or Hawaiian or anything in between.

They're ambiguously brown at best.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize the world consisted solely of black and white people.

These inklings could be black, or indian, or Hawaiian or anything in between.

They're ambiguously brown at best.

black =/= african american

this is like that thread where people said that lucio from overwatch wasn't black because he's from brazil.

 

[Chindogg]

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize the world consisted solely of black and white people.

These inklings could be black, or indian, or Hawaiian or anything in between.

They're ambiguously brown at best.

Let brown people fucking have it. Come the fuck on yo.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

black isn't an ethnicity.

but regardless, could you please provide evidence for why you think these inklings are just tanned?

in splatoon 1 you chose skin tone, not tan level. i don't really see what other discussion there can be.

They simply look like they were modeled after Japanese people, squid features added of course.

 

[King Gilga]

black =/= african american

this is like that thread where people said that lucio from overwatch wasn't black because he's from brazil.

This is not remotely the same thing.

Lucio has obviously black features.

The only difference these guys have from their 'white' counter parts is slightly darker skin.

 

[DarkKyo]

Ah so they don't look distinctly black to you huh? How should a black person look?

To be fair the "white" inklings don't look like white people to me either. They look like a white mutant squid cartoon species. If you were to go by that logic though, the dark skinned/black inklings definitely look like a black mutant squid cartoon species.

Even so they're too fantastical and cartoonish to claim they're a direct link to what we could consider a white or black person to look like.

Does this black Miqote(FFXIV) look like a black person/human to you?

They don't really have the normal features of a human person(so by the same logic a white miqote doesn't really look like a white person to me). If they tailored the skin colors/pallet swaps in each of these games to actually adhere to normal features of white/black/asian etc anatomy then I think it would be appropriate to claim that there is an intention on the artists' part to correlate them to human races.

This is all splitting hairs though because as I said the black/white inklings definitely look like black/white inklings, just not so much like black/white people. If the only thing tying them to human people is a range of skin colors that are human-ish then they're only slightly more like an assortment of human heritages than say the Zora are.

They have human-ish features and a range of skin tones, like humans have, but you can't really say those tones connect them to any particular human races because their other features besides skin tones are outlandishly cartoonish. The inklings are only slightly more connected to humans via their more human-ish skin tones, but they are still too cartoonish to call them black or white people imo.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

They simply look like they were modeled after Japanese people, squid features added of course.

so there are no black japanese people?

you literally pick a skin tone.

 

[Bahorel]

People bending over backwards just to tell themselves diversity can't possibly exist in the world of Mariokart

 

[Enzom21]

They simply look like they were modeled after Japanese people, squid features added of course.

What is distinctly Japanese about any of these characters?

Does this black Miqote(FFXIV) look like a black person/human to you?

Does she look like a tan white person to you?