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[reckless]

I liked it a lot and it wasn't just a straight up retread like 7. I wish we could see the original grittier cut of the movie though, that's what I wanted.

 

[Ennosuke]

TFA has better characters and dialogue, but Rogue One is superior with most other aspects. I think it looks better, it has better action sequences and it is doing a way better job in showing us the star wars universe and expanded lore.

 

[direct_quote]

I'm kind of shocked that people believe this. I don't think TFA was great, but Rogue One was such a bore with unforgettable characters (with poorly developed motives) that it was zero fun to watch the first time, nor with repeat viewings. Disappointing that Donnie Yen was in this one, and not a better one.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Rogue One is a really cool movie that has some not insignificant issues. I still really like it despite its flaws, but between the underdeveloped characters and half-baked plot I do ultimately find the movie less interesting and compelling than it should be. And I say this as somebody who read Catalyst before the movie.

That being said as silly as it sounds I really appreciate there being a legitimate reason for the Death Star to have some a huge weakness even if it is still hard to suspend disbelief that it got past the other engineers.

The idea that Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie is a hard opinion to accept though.

 

[Principate]

Just because something is familiar doesn't make it bad. Also it's still a lot more than no character arc.

It matters when your complaining about cookie cutter characters. It's potato, potato. The difference is the quality of the actors.

My biggest issue with TFA is that it requires you to turn off your brain because there's so much outside the movie it doesn't explain or even try to there's not much else you can do. Rogue one is self contained The characters may be bland but they make sense within the star wars lore you don't need to read outside material to understand what's going on just the original trilogy. Every about TFA is just more questions.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I feel like an outlier, but Rogue One was awful IMO

It had almost no story, and felt like a story trying to go for real emotional resonance but with the depth of a comic a 15 year old fanboy would write. It was too ambitious, took itself too seriously, and for me it amplified the many flaws tenfold.

 

[GhaleonEB]

How is Finn as a character not cookie cutter? I mean his character id incredibly well after but his arc is one id the most generic out there.

We're not dealing with revolutions in characterization with any Star Wars films. A clearly defined character, with understandable motivations, great chemistry with the rest of the ensemble, and a clearly defined arc executed well is plenty. It's a man on the run, who finds something worth fighting for, and learns to face his fears when it matters most. Generic? Sure. But it's in the execution, which TFA nails.

This is already more than Rogue One had going for it. The film was a narrative mess, Jyn was robbed of her story arc, and there's no tension or chemistry between any characters. The whole film felt like a very messy missed opportunity, with some nice set pieces. Star Wars is ultimately about characters, not action, and RO failed utterly in that department.

 

[Einchy]

Spoiler

He says everyone dies. Well more like "they all sacrifice their lives" but same gist.

This fucking guy. lol

 

[Meowster]

Regarding the CGI - it's funny because both the boyfriend and my mom thought the actor that played Tarkin was real. Both of them assumed they found a look alike. They knew instantly that that wasn't Carrie Fisher (or any actress) as Leia but were 100% sure that Tarkin didn't have any CGI until I told them after the fact.

 

[mr2xxx]

FA was fun and captured the spirit of the original trilogy despite being derivative. R1 on the other hand just left me bored.

 

[Premium Quality]

I enjoyed both movies. But TFA was better than R1.
With Rogue One, I saw it for the first time a few days ago and I can't remember any of the character's names.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

No sorry this is wrong. Rogue One is good but not great and not as good as the Force Awakens for one reason: characters. TFA's characters are more compelling and enjoyable than Rogue One's. Everyone in that movie is a fucking bore either sidelined or lacking any real character development or both. Even Jyn's arc isn't all that compelling compared to Rey's or especially Finn's. As for the plot being more interesting, Rouge One never held any weight. The Death Star plans in the original movie was always a mcguffin meant to unite most of the major characters and build up to the finale. The nature of being prequel didn't make heighten the stakes any more or less in Rouge One because we already know what the Death Star is capable of in ANH. Don't get me wrong, Rogue One is good, better than the prequel trilogy even but it's also the most forgettable Star Wars movie ever.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Regarding the CGI - it's funny because both the boyfriend and my mom thought the actor that played Tarkin was real. Both of them assumed they found a look alike. They knew instantly that that wasn't Carrie Fisher (or any actress) as Leia but were 100% sure that Tarkin didn't have any CGI until I told them after the fact.

Wonder if people unfamiliar with Carrie Fisher would believe Leia wasn't CGI either.

 

[TheWraith]

I find TFA to be leagues better then R1, just on basis of characters alone you don't really feel like you know or should care for any of R1's characters, and I struggle to recall any of their names. In TFA I came out of the movie knowing every character by name like Poe, Finn etc. , and I felt I knew and cared for them. R1 lacks anything to make it very memorable.

The very clearly written-for-China painfully shoehorned Donnie Yen Force character also has me rolling my eyes.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I agree.

One feels like an actual war movie and the other feels like a retread.

Also, Rogue had an actual space battle. It wins.

 

[Askherserenity]

They are both ok movies.

I think I liked Rogue One more but thinking back on it now, I really can't recall any particular scenes except the ending.

While TFA has a few memorable scenes imo.

Weird

 

[Intheflorsh]

Neither was very good but I'll give Rogue One credit for not being *completely* derivative.

The Last Jedi will be better than both.

 

[zoukka]

Rogue One was a shitty Star Wars movie and a a shitty movie in general. Instead of having the trademark light-hearted space opera bits that people like in this series, it had dull, lifeless characters, pseudo-serious plot which made absolutely no sense in the context of the SW-lore and the dramatic moments missed the mark all the time.

But I guess it had 30 secs of Vader.

 

[MMarston]

I discussed this at some other threads already, but one thing I've noticed with most (but not all) people who prefer R1 over TFA is they seem to be focusing more on the actual SW content - especiallly if they are franchise fans who look for more lore expansion - rather than the actual composition it as a film and if it works cohesively through the medium.

one page later

TFA has better characters and dialogue, but Rogue One is superior with most other aspects. I think it looks better, it has better action sequences and it is doing a way better job in showing us the star wars universe and expanded lore.

It matters when your complaining about cookie cutter characters. It's potato, potato. The difference is the quality of the actors.

My biggest issue with TFA is that it requires you to turn off your brain because there's so much outside the movie it doesn't explain or even try to there's not much else you can do. Rogue one is self contained The characters may be bland but they make sense within the star wars lore you don't need to read outside material to understand what's going on just the original trilogy. Every about TFA is just more questions.

I agree.

One feels like an actual war movie and the other feels like a retread.

Also, Rogue had an actual space battle. It wins.

 

[Magwik]

It matters when your complaining about cookie cutter characters. It's potato, potato. The difference is the quality of the actors.

My biggest issue with TFA is that it requires you to turn off your brain because there's so much outside the movie it doesn't explain or even try to there's not much else you can do. Rogue one is self contained The characters may be bland but they make sense within the star wars lore you don't need to read outside material to understand what's going on just the original trilogy. Every about TFA is just more questions.

What isn't explained though? Rey's past is really the only thing that comes to mind, and that's just sequel bait. Meanwhile the 1/2 emotional moments for Jyn means nothing to the viewers because those 10+ years are time skipped at the start of the film.

TFA tells the story and arc it sets out to do within the movie while also setting hooks in for an arc that ends with the trilogy. Rey, Finn, and Han are probably the biggest focus of telling a story and wrapping it at the end of the film, while everyone else takes a backseat. Rogue One fails to deliver any sort of arc for anyone, even though they had the perfect ending for Jyn but for some reason male costar literally just rises from the dead to prevent her from confronting the antagonist.

 

[Blizzard]

I really disliked most of the characters in Rogue One with the exception of K-2SO and the monk guy whose name I forget.

There was also very little tension since you realized almost immediately what would happen at the end of the movie (ending spoiler:

Spoiler

Everybody dies except Vader and Leia.

) This combined with the previous point meant I wasn't even rooting for anyone.

To me, it felt even more clunky and forced than typical Star Wars action with the set pieces they rigged like the transmitter cable, the tower top, and the computer tape climb thing.


In contrast, I really enjoyed Force Awakens and saw it in theaters twice. I think people who like more traditional Star Wars where you go on a journey with the characters without everyone dying tend to like Force Awakens, and people who want a more serious and depressing movie about characters with a sealed fate -- a focus more on the journey than the characters -- like Rogue One.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

The big thing Rogue One could have handled better was the whole "Rebellions are built on Hope!" thing, with Jyn's actions eventually convincing the rebel leaders to enact a full scale attack on Scarif.

Their change of heart should have had more dramatic weight to it.

 

[JimiNutz]

Jyn Erso, Donnie Yen, Mads, Diego Luna, Darth Vader, Uncanny Valley Tarkin, Mon Mothma.

That's most of the cast.

You have forgotten K-2, the best goddamn droid we have ever seen in a Star Wars film. BB-8 ain't got shit on K-2.

Plus K-2 is involved in one of the saddest Star Wars scenes that I've seen.

 

[Rastafarian42]

yup

 

[BocoDragon]

I discussed this at some other threads already, but one thing I've noticed with most (but not all) people who prefer R1 over TFA is they seem to be focusing more on the actual SW content - especiallly if they are franchise fans who look for more lore expansion - rather than the actual composition it as a film and if it works cohesively through the medium.

EDIT: R1 was a C+ at best for me.

I couldn't agree more.

I'm more interested in "how does a new SW film explore and remix the way the originals used passionate dialogue, music and editing to create a uniquely stylized film experience"

Rather than "show me some more content in this universe, directorial style doesn't matter".

I'm sure there is room for variation in style in SW, but I guess R1 didn't strike me as directorially brilliant enough to warrant abandoning the winning style of the mainline films. I needed more hints of "idealistic heroism" for that movie to work for me.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I'm kind of shocked that people believe this. I don't think TFA was great, but Rogue One was such a bore with unforgettable characters (with poorly developed motives) that it was zero fun to watch the first time, nor with repeat viewings. Disappointing that Donnie Yen was in this one, and not a better one.

Really? At the bolded.
I mean is it really that necessary at this point in Star Wars canon to explain (much more than what we got in R1) why these characters are fighting against the evil empire?

 

[Einchy]

Rogue One was a shitty Star Wars movie and a a shitty movie in general. Instead of having the trademark light-hearted space opera bits that people like in this series, it had dull, lifeless characters, pseudo-serious plot which made absolutely no sense in the context of the SW-lore and the dramatic moments missed the mark all the time.

But I guess it had 30 secs of Vader.

How did the plot makes no sense in the context of Star Wars?

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

TFA was the second worst Star Wars movie, so it's no surprise.

Bullshit

Spoiler

It's the worst

 

[Green Ninja]

Rogue One has some faults but it's far and away a better Star Wars film than The Force Awakens. The only thing TFA has going for it was Poe and Han Solo. In some ways TFA was worse than the Prequels. At least they were doing something new and different.

 

[MMarston]

Really? At the bolded.
I mean is it really that necessary at this point in Star Wars canon to explain (much more than what we got in R1) why these characters are fighting against the evil empire?

In a universe where everyone hates the big evil doer, you're going to need a better selling point to get people to be emotionally invested in a particular character, no matter how much of a no-shitter that may be. Otherwise, you end up with people who are no better than the redshirts getting clunked out on the sidelines.

Rogue One has some faults but it's far and away a better Star Wars film than The Force Awakens. The only thing TFA has going for it was Poe and Han Solo. In some ways TFA was worse than the Prequels. At least they were doing something new and different.

Yup, we've reached that point of a SW thread.

 

[Magwik]

Really? At the bolded.
I mean is it really that necessary at this point in Star Wars canon to explain (much more than what we got in R1) why these characters are fighting against the evil empire?

"Bad guys are bad" isn't a compelling narrative for any film.

 

[pretty done]

I really wish I just watched the Vader scene on YT. The movie was such a bore and the characters were completely uninteresting to me.

Vader scene is sick tho, make a movie like that where he's out hunting (the last) jedi and racking up the frags.

 

[Principate]

What isn't explained though? Rey's past is really the only thing that comes to mind, and that's just sequel bait. Meanwhile the 1/2 emotional moments for Jyn means nothing to the viewers because those 10+ years are time skipped at the start of the film.

TFA tells the story and arc it sets out to do within the movie while also setting hooks in for an arc that ends with the trilogy. Rey, Finn, and Han are probably the biggest focus of telling a story and wrapping it at the end of the film, while everyone else takes a backseat. Rogue One fails to deliver any sort of arc for anyone, even though they had the perfect ending for Jyn but for some reason male costar literally just rises from the dead to prevent her from confronting the antagonist.

Why does the current ruling republic have a military called the rebellion (beyond fanservice for the sake of fanservice) how did the first order get so powerful that they could practically obliterate the republic with noone noticing. Since when were storm troopers all trained from birth. Why was there a super powerful force user hiding around that not even fucking palpaltine noticed. Etc etc. I know the answer to some of these questions but they weren't answered within the film itself.

This isn't some new franchise this a sequel to a 6 film long franchise that managed to answer as little as the first film in the franchise.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

In a universe where everyone hates the big evil doer, you're going to need a better selling point to get people to be emotionally invested in a particular character, no matter how much of a no-shitter that may be. Otherwise, you end up with people who are no better than the redshirts getting clunked out on the sidelines.

"Bad guys are bad" isn't a compelling narrative for any film.

You didn't find Erso Sr.'s motivations interesting? At the very least.

Edit: Also - how is TFA any better in the "bad guys are bad" regard?

 

[zsynqx]

I discussed this at some other threads already, but one thing I've noticed with most (but not all) people who prefer R1 over TFA is they seem to be focusing more on the actual SW content - especiallly if they are franchise fans who look for more lore expansion - rather than the actual composition it as a film and if it works cohesively through the medium.

EDIT: R1 was a C+ at best for me.

Yep

 

[Chumley]

Bullshit

Spoiler

It's the worst

What is even happening in this thread

 

[sleepnaught]

Both were kinda bad if I'm going to be honest with myself. At least Rogue One had the awesome Vader scene. I'd easily rank them both as the worst Star Wars films, and that includes Episode 1.

 

[Blackage]

The depiction of the Rebel Alliance for the first time actually made me care about them.

I never liked the Rebels in the original trilogy, I always thought they kinda sucked and were just background noise, I didn't know or care about their cause, but this is the movie that made me view them in a brand new light.

The weight of what they're fighting against and how it shaped them to this point is on full display here. The overwhelming power of the Empire in their prime and in all of their cruelty is fantastic, as well as that desperation and fear is caused among the rebel alliance.

I hope episodes VIII & IX can make the rebellion as relevant as they are here and not forget how hard it is to fight against what they're fighting.

 

[Meowster]

Bullshit

Spoiler

It's the worst

Attack of Clones must never be forgotten.

 

[matrix-cat]

In some ways TFA was worse than the Prequels. At least they were doing something new and different.

Quick, someone post something about 'Mary Sue' so I can fill out my bingo card.

 

[mrklaw]

We're not dealing with revolutions in characterization with any Star Wars films. A clearly defined character, with understandable motivations, great chemistry with the rest of the ensemble, and a clearly defined arc executed well is plenty. It's a man on the run, who finds something worth fighting for, and learns to face his fears when it matters most. Generic? Sure. But it's in the execution, which TFA nails.

This is already more than Rogue One had going for it. The film was a narrative mess, Jyn was robbed of her story arc, and there's no tension or chemistry between any characters. The whole film felt like a very messy missed opportunity, with some nice set pieces. Star Wars is ultimately about characters, not action, and RO failed utterly in that department.

That's my biggest gripe with R1. Why make it an ensemble movie when you have almost zero chemistry between characters or fleshing out of them? There is no reason for most to be there, and the editing in the third act is so bad that almost nobody has any dramatic closure. Including the main characters.

There are nuggets that are good. Death Vader was fun; the idea of it tying into the start of ANH; the squabbling in the rebellion. But such bad characterisation and wasted scenes (why did they go to visit her dad?). I'll rewatch for sarcastic/dry K2-SO and Vader but that's about it

TFA, while a retread was still fun. Some unnecessary fluff but less than R1. The aliens on the falcon were just crap and I guess put there for the kids? And I didn't like starkiller base at all - not only a lazy retread of a weapon but ridiculous in size and clumsily handled. You'd fuck up entire solar systems doing stuff like that, and threaten surrounding systems - too unpredictable (yes I know it's all silly sci-fi but even silly sci-fi has to be a tiny bit grounded)

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Attack of Clones must never be forgotten.

It was bad but I didn't fall asleep watching it on Bluray.

 

[neorej]

Rogue One is a war movie, The Force Awakens is a Star Wars movie.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

It was bad but I didn't fall asleep watching it on Bluray.

You're weird, then.

 

[Mistle]

I discussed this at some other threads already, but one thing I've noticed with most (but not all) people who prefer R1 over TFA is they seem to be focusing more on the actual SW content - especiallly if they are franchise fans who look for more lore expansion - rather than the actual composition it as a film and if it works cohesively through the medium.

EDIT: R1 was a C+ at best for me.

yep i've found this also. in my circles nobody is a super hardcore star wars fanatic, and we were all pretty lukewarm on rogue one, or outright disliking it. i personally think it was a bit of a mess of a movie. i felt absolutely nothing during any character moments. TFA is in a whole different league in terms of actually being a good movie.

yeah, i don't get the rogue one love at all. but i feel the same way about most marvel/superhero flicks so there just must be something to these types of movies that isn't for me.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

I agree with OP.

I actually watched Rogue One today at home. I saw it twice in the theater. And it's probably the best-looking Star Wars film to date. So many amazing shots.

People are quick to diss the characaters and profile-building. But I feel like they're judging this film against 30+ years of nostalgia attachment. I watched the film today with this in mind and I feel like the younger generation watching this film will hold these characters in the same regard as us "old timers" do with the OG characters in 10, 20 years...I'm sorry, but you may just be old. I'm saying though...

The editing, cinematography directing, story...It's all top-notch. At so many points in the film I thought to myself, "This is so fucking awesome."

I have a lot of beef with The Force Awakens. I think the casting is great. I think the the way they represent the period in time ("future") is great. But the film falls apart for me after the first act, around the time they leave Jakku. I have high hopes for The Last Jedi despite that shit teaser trailer. But Rogue One is auper solid.

I'd really like to see Gareth Edwards return to direct a Kenobi movie withEwan Mcgregor. I honestly think it would be the shit.

 

[Magwik]

You didn't find Erso Sr.'s motivations interesting? At the very least.

He's one of the very few compelling parts of the movie. However it's all severely under utilized, and relies heavily on Jyn as well. It would have worked better if it was recentered around Jyn not wanting to steal the plans because she was told to, but to steal them because she wanted to. Outside of that, RO doesn't really pretend to care about that narrative either, as

Spoiler

Jyn is robbed of her confrontation with the villain at the end

. Only the middle of RO works with Erso Sr being the hook. The remaining 2/3 are all up to Jyn and her motivations which fall flat.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Well, yes.

-It feels grounded with the focus on 'low-level' characters.
-It succeeds in making the Death Star feel like an existential ominous threat, more even than in ANH or RoTJ, ironically even if they only use it here at low power. It feels more personal seeing the effects so close, instead of seeing a spark explosion and then deleting a planet. Or *cough* deleting four planets at the same time. And then you start thinking "and this was at low power..." and the net result is much better.
-Fleshing out the Rebel Alliance with sub factions and politics again makes it feel more grounded and real.
-Of course all the visual design is great, so close to the old movies.
-Darth Vader is wisely used very sparsely, it isn't his movie, but when he appears he dominates. Again, scenes like his fight at the end where we see him from the perspective of low level grunts makes us feel like he is a unstoppable demon, you can only try to run away from him. A worthy antagonist.
-The final 30 minute epic multi-layered action scene is great, and it totally reminded me of RoTJ action, which together with ESB is my fave SW film.

 

[Monocle]

They're both outstanding for different reasons.

The Force Awakens did a wonderful job of fanning away the stench of the prequels, with writing, performances, and effects that were well above par compared to the previous three films. TFA introduced us to likable new heroes and a complex and well characterized villain. More than a desperately needed palate cleanser, it's also a mission statement that assures us the creatives who are now responsible for the franchise are in the right headspace to tell compelling Star Wars stories for years to come. Most importantly, TFA is damn entertaining: a funny and suspenseful and exhilarating pulp adventure. The soaring Millennium Falcon, the X-Wings kicking up spray, Kylo Ren's chaotic lightsaber... The look and sound and feel of the movie is just right. Everything has weight and zing again. TFA reminded the world what Star Wars was all about before Lucas lost sight of the need to collaborate with great artists on the core elements of his movies, beyond the art design and music.

Rogue One is a successful attempt to enrich the Original Trilogy with an adjacent story. Its deviation from the typical Star Wars template in terms of structure, cinematography, score, and tone was rather bold, and I think it paid off. Now the Death Star's flaw has a fitting and believable explanation, and its destruction takes on a new triumphant note as Galen Erso's legacy and the rebels' sacrifices are vindicated. Plus, Vader got two absolutely iconic scenes that aren't just gratuitously awesome, but actually contribute to the character by revealing a new key location with strong ties to his past, his ability to survive outside his armor, and a glimpse of why he's considered such a fearsome figure throughout the Empire. Rogue One finds interesting vantage points to show new sides of a universe that many of us know very well. So much of it is familiar but fresh. And there are so many other fascinating periods of Star Wars history that could be approached in a similar way. Ben Kenobi's exile, Vader's Jedi hunts, even OT events from a purely Imperial perspective.

I love both movies. It's stupid to draw direct comparisons between films that have two very different roles in the series.

 

[Sanjuro]

I was excited for Rogue One, but was ultimately an experience that was closer to my feelings of the prequel films. Wasn't as bad. Feels like a soulless distant entry without any important link to the rest of the series.