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[ultron87]

Ultron, can you explain what made you make this comment?

I had originally typed up a post that, instead of saying my characters name just said "I'm one of the shinigami from Bleach" and then explained the power. This would've been in a means to conceal my character's gender and therefore shelter it from gender targeting roles. In the last hour, I switched it to showing the name since I wanted to be as not suspicious as possible. Of course, I then claimed too late to actually change much.

Then the next day opens with Sky's flip, which explicitly confirms gender-targeting roles, that I'd then completely opened myself up to.

 

[Palmer_v1]

To be clear Cabot, I was pretty sure you were town D1. I'm less sure today, cause we seem to be somewhat at odds on who we find most suspicious. Naturally, I'm egotistical enough to be suspicious of anyone not agreeing with me.

 

[Palmer_v1]

I'm fuckin awesome. Or an awesome fuckup. The jury's out.

I should maybe say this for the new players, but don't take anything personally. Scum or not, I'm enjoying playing this game with you, and think you're a good addition.

 

[TheExodu5]

Exo, mind repeating your case against me for me? Or well, has it evolved in any way from the day start or is it still the same?

Ultron is scum, prime lynch target with 2 hours to go and up 3-1 in votes.

You vote for Zubz.
WMD ties the vote.
Ultron breaks the tie.
Haly finishes it off.

2 scum in a list of 5 voters makes it likely that ultron (most likely) or you would become the prime lynch target in day 2. As a result, scum kills off one of the 5 to make us think there is no scum in the 5 lynchers (because why would they narrow the list down for us?).

My biggest assumption is that last part, but it just makes so much sense. Why else would they kill one of the 5?

 

[TheExodu5]

The bells rang when I read this:



...what to me was a fancy way of saying "why is fluff bad?" (since it was a critique of my critique about monkey), what in itself is a fluffy question. I remember that you were familiar with the live version, that's why these things keep bothering me.

This is what's really inforcing the scuminess in your posts now. You're targetting the newbies and telling them their posts are nothing but fluff.

Reads are important and not fluff. Every read paints a picture of a person's thoughts on other players and helps create a papertrail for that person's thoughts. They're creating a papertrail, they're making themselves vulnerable, and you're discouraging that?

That is some scummy shit.

 

[Poltergust]

...what to me was a fancy way of saying "why is fluff bad?" (since it was a critique of my critique about monkey), what in itself is a fluffy question. I remember that you were familiar with the live version, that's why these things keep bothering me.

I think this more boils down to what we both consider to be fluff. You definition of it seems to be rather broad.

 

[hey_monkey]

I should maybe say this for the new players, but don't take anything personally. Scum or not, I'm enjoying playing this game with you, and think you're a good addition.

Oh, I'm not, but thanks for looking out. I'm kinda puzzled by some of what's happened, but I like puzzles. Human puzzles are the best kind.

Anyway, I personally lean fuckin awesome on this question, but I'm clearly biased, so my opinion is fluff.

 

[Poltergust]

*Your definition

(I hate not being able to edit. ;__; )

 

[Kyanrute]

Ultron is scum, prime lynch target with 2 hours to go and up 3-1 in votes.

You vote for Zubz.
WMD ties the vote.
Ultron breaks the tie.
Haly finishes it off.

2 scum in a list of 5 voters makes it likely that ultron (most likely) or you would become the prime lynch target in day 2. As a result, scum kills off one of the 5 to make us think there is no scum in the 5 lynchers (because why would they narrow the list down for us?).

My biggest assumption is that last part, but it just makes so much sense. Why else would they kill one of the 5?

Cheers. There was the bit earlier where you said that you think Ultron is telling the truth about his role, but it just is scum-aligned? Still think that?

The start makes sense. If Ultron is scum, I could be his mate, looking for a train to save him. I find that a fair assumption, even though I am not scum. The rest I feel less comfortable about.

First, why me instead of Ultron? Your theory states that we are both scum. Why am I the better kill over Ultron, if you consider both of us scum?

Secondly, why is this the wine in front of us? What if your theory is the theory scum had in mind when they made the play? What if they wanted town to focus on the train that got a townie lynched - a train that very well could be filled with only townies. It is not an impossible thought at all. What makes your interpretation of the events the correct one? What makes you think you are playing the scum instead of the opposite?

 

[hey_monkey]

This is a very interesting way to go about everything. I like.

But yeah, apart from the cuteness points, I think the contents themselves are not that amazing in the end. Dusk, what I imply is obvious. Nobody sensible outs themselves as scum, no matter what their alignment. Thus, nobody sensible knows (even though scum really know, they will not just admit it) what happened in the scum chat last night. And thus, that was fluff.

The meaning behind the action. If the question serves no purpose, why is it being asked? If answering the question brings nothing new to the table, did the discussion that transpired have that much meaning at all? Does the meaningless ask-answer cycle help us with solving the game? I feel not. Fluff merely makes one look present. "Look at me, I am thinking and contributing!"

I'm just gonna put those two posts in conversation with one another and leave 'em there.

This is what's really inforcing the scuminess in your posts now. You're targetting the newbies and telling them their posts are nothing but fluff.

Reads are important and not fluff. Every read paints a picture of a person's thoughts on other players and helps create a papertrail for that person's thoughts. They're creating a papertrail, they're making themselves vulnerable, and you're discouraging that?

That is some scummy shit.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think it's working toward solving the game. You could make a case for it as a tactic to figure out the new players and their styles, but hammering it constantly makes Kyan's behavior suspicious. It's hypocritical and it makes it look like you're hiding something.

 

[Kyanrute]

This is what's really inforcing the scuminess in your posts now. You're targetting the newbies and telling them their posts are nothing but fluff.

Reads are important and not fluff. Every read paints a picture of a person's thoughts on other players and helps create a papertrail for that person's thoughts. They're creating a papertrail, they're making themselves vulnerable, and you're discouraging that?

That is some scummy shit.

What? I critique specific parts of their posts, not the complete ones. I am not targeting whole posts. I am discouraging making fluffy statements that can be used as cover.

And why did you not get this?

 

[hey_monkey]

To be clear Cabot, I was pretty sure you were town D1. I'm less sure today, cause we seem to be somewhat at odds on who we find most suspicious. Naturally, I'm egotistical enough to be suspicious of anyone not agreeing with me.

You and cabot have me most curious, I'll say that. Whatever you are, I don't think you're on the same alignment. It's the source of a great deal of my general uncertainty because you're both very active and forceful.

 

[Kyanrute]

I'm just gonna put those two posts in conversation with one another and leave 'em there.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think it's working toward solving the game. You could make a case for it as a tactic to figure out the new players and their styles, but hammering it constantly makes Kyan's behavior suspicious. It's hypocritical and it makes it look like you're hiding something.

Count the "hammering" ratio to no mentions for me if you would be so kind. Thaaaanks.

or was this too one of the fluffy posts that ppl so like to make

 

[Kyanrute]

Count the "hammering" ratio to no mentions for me if you would be so kind. Thaaaanks.

or was this too one of the fluffy posts that ppl so like to make

I did it. Two mentions of things I considered fluffy. Is this something to call "hammering it constantly"?

HA

 

[Kyanrute]

You could make a case for it as a tactic to figure out the new players

...how does this enter your mind as a valid possibility when one of the fluffs I criticized was made by Dusk. Context, please.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

im thinking WAMD could go 1 of two ways for me.
she either is town that really really thinks that she has scum Hey_monkey on the ropes, and is just overextending her questioning in the desperate attempt to convince the rest of us.
or she is scum that thought she could use Hey's earlier uncertain (and clearly inexperienced) play as grounds to push for her lynch, but Hey is turning out to be a much stronger argue'er (thats totally a word i swear) than expected, leading to wamd having to get a bit more extreme in her accusations.

im leaning toward the scummy one.

Of course you are

 

[hey_monkey]

Count the "hammering" ratio to no mentions for me if you would be so kind. Thaaaanks.

or was this too one of the fluffy posts that ppl so like to make

It's not just mention of fluff. It's consistently telling other people how to play or focusing on play style as opposed to anything more productive. It's a lot of being present without really putting forth much effort.

(also, far more than two mentions of fluff)

For instance:

But they are so much fun, the shitposts that is. And I shall echo the argument that says that lynching for style instead of substance is scummy. In addition, the comment about multiple posts is pointless. Someone will always prefer the alternative. When someone does the megaposts, someone complains about how the information is hard to find in all that text for quoting and whatnot. When someone makes multiple posts containing little bits of information, someone accuses them of flooding the thread with needless spam and obfuscating the discussion.

i fucking knew it

fuck shitposters take the game seriously or DIE

oh look at it he changed

scumscumsucmcsucmsucmuscuscmuscmuscnmsc

argh

Which we can follow up with:

Fluff. Nobody serious is going to start guessing scum teams right now.

This is a very interesting way to go about everything. I like.

But yeah, apart from the cuteness points, I think the contents themselves are not that amazing in the end. Dusk, what I imply is obvious. Nobody sensible outs themselves as scum, no matter what their alignment. Thus, nobody sensible knows (even though scum really know, they will not just admit it) what happened in the scum chat last night. And thus, that was fluff.

Yeah, no. I don't think anybody saying those things is chiseling the names in stone, they just are lining up their suspects. There is a big difference between thinking that a group of people are acting scummy and that the group in question is THE team in question. The "teams" people are talking about are extremely fluid and will change at moments notice. Asking for definitive teams is a pointless effort, want to predict the lottery numbers next?

This is not a very good comment. It misses the "but I am willing to consider voting for him if the situation arises" -bit. Polter is scummy but not a vote candidate?

And the loop closes as we arrive at the beginning. You asked questions but did not expect definitive, meaningful answers to them. This is what we call fluff.

The meaning behind the action. If the question serves no purpose, why is it being asked? If answering the question brings nothing new to the table, did the discussion that transpired have that much meaning at all? Does the meaningless ask-answer cycle help us with solving the game? I feel not. Fluff merely makes one look present. "Look at me, I am thinking and contributing!"

Polter, for someone who has played the game previously, you do use the newbie frames around your questions bit too much in my opinion.

The bells rang when I read this:



...what to me was a fancy way of saying "why is fluff bad?" (since it was a critique of my critique about monkey), what in itself is a fluffy question. I remember that you were familiar with the live version, that's why these things keep bothering me.

What? I critique specific parts of their posts, not the complete ones. I am not targeting whole posts. I am discouraging making fluffy statements that can be used as cover.

And why did you not get this?

Count the "hammering" ratio to no mentions for me if you would be so kind. Thaaaanks.

or was this too one of the fluffy posts that ppl so like to make

This one, I'm on the fence about. I'd mostly categorize it as actual productive discussion, and certainly from anyone else, but from you, I'm just not sure.

You are interpreting the messages wrong. Well, the second quote at least, don't see anything about the 1st one. About the second though - of course people's scum reads are not tied to their votes. I am not saying that at all. I was concerned about wording, I felt that it was too protective towards Polter. The wording was scummy, it allowed monkey to have something to quote in future should she need a reason to justify a vote on Polter. At the same time, she also defended Polter by saying that he'd be likely trip up should he be scum. In short, the comment about Polter felt like scum setting up reasoning for a future bus.

So that's two posts (that I quoted; there are more) about complaints on style or other people telling you how to play. Then ten posts in the last day complaining about how other people play. One that's gray. and I count 13 other posts generally, some of which are more in line with grousing over shitpost accusations and about half of which are straight up joke posts that add nothing except a little humor. Which, y'know, yay humor. But it's certainly not productive if we're talking about production.

I'm not sure if I'd ask for the helpful content yardstick if I were you is what I'm saying.

 

[hey_monkey]

...how does this enter your mind as a valid possibility when one of the fluffs I criticized was made by Dusk. Context, please.

Don't be reductive.

 

[TheExodu5]

Cheers. There was the bit earlier where you said that you think Ultron is telling the truth about his role, but it just is scum-aligned? Still think that?

The start makes sense. If Ultron is scum, I could be his mate, looking for a train to save him. I find that a fair assumption, even though I am not scum. The rest I feel less comfortable about.

First, why me instead of Ultron? Your theory states that we are both scum. Why am I the better kill over Ultron, if you consider both of us scum?

Secondly, why is this the wine in front of us? What if your theory is the theory scum had in mind when they made the play? What if they wanted town to focus on the train that got a townie lynched - a train that very well could be filled with only townies. It is not an impossible thought at all. What makes your interpretation of the events the correct one? What makes you think you are playing the scum instead of the opposite?

I think he's being somewhat truthful about his role. What I do believe is that he has no night action and any positive action lies in death. For him, this has the benefit of acting as a deterrent to lynch him if he's scum. This is a smart roleclaim for scum.

1 - Other things bother me about your posting behavior. Obfuscating your own posts and discouraging others to post. It really seems like your interests are in muddying the waters. I believe both of you are scum, but in the case that only one of you is, I'd place my money on you.

2 - either scenario is possible. Nothing is ever certain in mafia. I'm making an assumption that fits well with my theory, and I believe it to be the correct one.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

So I've got a generator change to do today which is literal dog shit so I won't be around until this afternoon

 

[hey_monkey]

So I've got a generator change to do today which is literal dog shit so I won't be around until this afternoon

That sounds way less fun than mafia so...

 

[Palmer_v1]

You and cabot have me most curious, I'll say that. Whatever you are, I don't think you're on the same alignment. It's the source of a great deal of my general uncertainty because you're both very active and forceful.

I read this as: Shit, they're sort of onto me, so I should try to drive a wedge between any townies I can.

For Kyanrute, I'm leaning more Neutral Role after reading through everyone's thoughts.

 

[Kyanrute]

It's not just mention of fluff. It's consistently telling other people how to play or focusing on play style as opposed to anything more productive. It's a lot of being present without really putting forth much effort.

(also, far more than two mentions of fluff)

For instance:

Which we can follow up with:

This one, I'm on the fence about. I'd mostly categorize it as actual productive discussion, and certainly from anyone else, but from you, I'm just not sure.

So that's two posts (that I quoted; there are more) about complaints on style or other people telling you how to play. Then ten posts in the last day complaining about how other people play. One that's gray. and I count 13 other posts generally, some of which are more in line with grousing over shitpost accusations and about half of which are straight up joke posts that add nothing except a little humor. Which, y'know, yay humor. But it's certainly not productive if we're talking about production.

I'm not sure if I'd ask for the helpful content yardstick if I were you is what I'm saying.

Now that's an argument, dunno why you began with the Exo-fluff-thing if you were going to do this.

I still find two bits I called fluff, Dusk speculating about how Odin was killed because he outed himself as a pr and you and the team questions. But that was not the main argument you presented.

Many of the posts that you quoted were made in response to responses about my other posts. I open the argument and follow it. I'd find it more scummy to not follow up on the things you bring up. I see things that I find questionable. I have a discussion about it with people. I have no intentions to antagonize people over their style of play, instead I wish to understand their play. Why are people contributing but making statements that mean nothing? Why are people becoming defensive when I ask the previous question? I like these questions and would like to know the answers. I consider both the origin of the arguments and the things that I followed up with meaningful discussion.

 

[hey_monkey]

I read this as: Shit, they're sort of onto me, so I should try to drive a wedge between any townies I can.

I can see how you would. I probably should have phrased it differently, but I have congenital hit-enter-itis. It's just musing, though. Neither of you is particularly on my radar - as you said yourself, there's more nefarious behaviors afoot. I guess it's more of a... hmm. Noticing when you two don't agree, since you are the two most active and analytical in the wake of SkyOdin's untimely passing. You could well both be town and just analyzing different things. The problem with being town is we just don't know. ¯\_(⊙︿&#8857_/¯

 

[Kyanrute]

I think he's being somewhat truthful about his role. What I do believe is that he has no night action and any positive action lies in death. For him, this has the benefit of acting as a deterrent to lynch him if he's scum. This is a smart roleclaim for scum.

1 - Other things bother me about your posting behavior. Obfuscating your own posts and discouraging others to post. It really seems like your interests are in muddying the waters. I believe both of you are scum, but in the case that only one of you is, I'd place my money on you.

2 - either scenario is possible. Nothing is ever certain in mafia. I'm making an assumption that fits well with my theory, and I believe it to be the correct one.

Don't see why you would make such assumptions about Ultron's role. 1, ehh, I guess I can kinda get the obfuscation if you consider reading hard. No, I don't get it either then, not really. Discouraging others to post is just plain false. 2, ehhhhhhhh silly assumptions, reminds me of my scum games.

 

[hey_monkey]

For Kyanrute, I'm leaning more Neutral Role after reading through everyone's thoughts.

I've never played a game with a neutral role so I'm very curious to hear your reasons or anything else on this, honestly.

 

[Kyanrute]

I read this as: Shit, they're sort of onto me, so I should try to drive a wedge between any townies I can.

For Kyanrute, I'm leaning more Neutral Role after reading through everyone's thoughts.

You interested in keeping a "neutral" alive? Or are you a paying member of the KILLALLNEUTRALS-camp?

 

[Blargonaut]

 

[Kyanrute]

Ultron's role is silly enough that town wouldn't fake claim it, surely. Cabot brought up the point how this is a new role to Gafia, not sure if it is but I ain't seen one like this. At least, if Ultron is town, it is pretty close to the reality I feel.

For reasons of obfuscation (yeah that word right there was a conscious pick) and being bit bastard thanks to that, I don't like it as a scum role. Very creative fake claim if scum. Very daring, but it was made two minutes to the clock so it hardly had an affected the discussion. Panic claim? Wouldn't panic lead to a simple claim (hi dragonz)? Well now that I brought that up, no, not necessarily.

Claim makes me lean scum, need to read everything else though.

 

[Kyanrute]

and it is time fooooooooooooor

an obfuscation post

yes i will joke about this have a load of fun determining what this all means

i know what this means

but i am not telling it

 

[Palmer_v1]

I've never played a game with a neutral role so I'm very curious to hear your reasons or anything else on this, honestly.

Neutrals are tricky cause they usually have their own win condition, so they need to skirt the edges. Too helpful, and scum kills them. Too shitty, town does it.

It's also why town's wincon is to eliminate all threats. Some neutrals specifically preclude a town win, while others can coexist in peace. It's nearly impossible to verify though, and a neutral lynch is almost always safer than a town lynch.

You interested in keeping a "neutral" alive? Or are you a paying member of the KILLALLNEUTRALS-camp?

I'm interested in lynching neutrals when I don't have good scum targets.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Welcome Blarg and Panda.

 

[Blargonaut]

and it is time fooooooooooooor

an obfuscation post

yes i will joke about this have a load of fun determining what this all means

i know what this means

but i am not telling it

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Let me just check whats going on these last few pages.

 

[Blargonaut]

Welcome Blarg and Panda.

ok

 

[Blargonaut]

Let me just check whats going on these last few pages.

thanks

 

[cabot]

So where do you think is the flaw in my reasoning?

I do read kyan as scum, and I believe he implicates ultron through the vote. Truth be told, I am using his posting style to lynch him over ultron. I also think it's better to leave ultron for second in case I'm wrong, since we'd be lynching a power role.

IT'S RIGHT THERE BUDDY.

The second statement is nonsense, what if Kyan claims a power role, you gonna choose me as your third?

You're choosing posting style over your scum read.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Ultron's role is silly enough that town wouldn't fake claim it, surely. Cabot brought up the point how this is a new role to Gafia, not sure if it is but I ain't seen one like this. At least, if Ultron is town, it is pretty close to the reality I feel.

For reasons of obfuscation (yeah that word right there was a conscious pick) and being bit bastard thanks to that, I don't like it as a scum role. Very creative fake claim if scum. Very daring, but it was made two minutes to the clock so it hardly had an affected the discussion. Panic claim? Wouldn't panic lead to a simple claim (hi dragonz)? Well now that I brought that up, no, not necessarily.

Claim makes me lean scum, need to read everything else though.

(⋟﹏&#8926

 

[cabot]

Sorry, I forgot, you did respond, admitted you were wrong, but still don't think Ultron was a lynch candidate with 2 hours to go and being ahead 3-1 in votes.

You can't even quote yourself right. You said the following:

I feel like this is how things went down:

- Ultron on the chopping block as the only real lynch candidate.
- Kyan jumps on one of the 1 votes...Zubz. That leads to Zubz eventually getting lynched.

Big difference between 'lynch candidate' and 'only real lynch candidate'


My mistake was when Kyan jumped on, but the point I made was there were four players in contention, as below (kudos, you at least directly quoted me):

Brilliant, except that's not how it went down.


There were 4 in contention over the final real life day of D1.

Dragonz was the first lynch lead, then ultron and Zubz came in later. Stan was also in the running while Dragonz was leading. Kyan voted when it was ultron 3-2 Zubz. It was hardly a wagon he started out of nowhere.

There was no lead lynch candidate, it was a small group that eventually expanded towards day end.

Anyway, I'm taking a break from this threeway, we've got another day and I don't want to spend it on the same argument.

 

[cabot]

To be clear Cabot, I was pretty sure you were town D1. I'm less sure today, cause we seem to be somewhat at odds on who we find most suspicious. Naturally, I'm egotistical enough to be suspicious of anyone not agreeing with me.

I'm frankly amazed you haven't got your vote on me for this crime

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Okay on Exo's theory. I mean i can see it but i think its unlikely, cause its such a big gamble. I think scum would do such a move in later days not day 1.

 

[cabot]

You interested in keeping a "neutral" alive? Or are you a paying member of the KILLALLNEUTRALS-camp?

Kyan playing sly with being neutral, unsure what to do with this.

 

[cabot]

Okay on Exo's theory. I mean i can see it but i think its unlikely, cause its such a big gamble. I think scum would do such a move in later days not day 1.

His theory relies too much on trying to explain the scum kill, which is such a wild west guess at this early stage in the game.

 

[TheExodu5]

I really like the word Obfuscation. Favorite BTBAM song.

 

[Kyanrute]

Kyan playing sly with being neutral, unsure what to do with this.

You might be familiar with my stance about being scum and claiming a neutral. For a neutral play read Gafia 3.

 

[cabot]

I think you're a neutral claiming a neutral.

 

[cabot]

And no, I will not read gafia 3. I have most of that mess wiped from memory.

 

[TheExodu5]

Maybe I'm reaching too much. But, I still find the SkyOdin kill puzzling since it effectively narrows the pool of suspects from 5 to 4. It seems like a kill scum wouldn't make if there was any scum out of those 4. So maybe the simplest explanation is that none of them are scum. That's why I feel like the scum team would foresee that conclusion on our part.

 

[cabot]

the simplest explanation was covered by swamped quite a while back, and touched on by others.

He was town read quite a lot, and he was fairly open and investigative.



It might not be true, but its certainly the simplest explanation.

 

[Kyanrute]

I think you're a neutral claiming a neutral.

That I am not nor am I doing that. Wanted to know what Palmer's stance was on lynching neutrals to consider how likely it was for him to change his vote for me today.