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[Bits N Pieces]

No, I just have friends that work in the industry. I also am on gaf alot and remember thing's people like SHINOBI among others say who actually have close ties to people within Microsoft/Sony.

If you have friends who work in the industry who are telling you things then that sounds to me like you have inside information. Spill the beans.....

Also, Shinobi has close ties to people within MS (or Sony) confirmed? Spill the beans.....

 

[Papacheeks]

If your willing to believe any random person that has no proof of any sources of knowledge, that has never been proven right that gets touchy and runs of when anyone questions his sources. Not to mention that only shows up to put a negative stance on anything yet never appears in any positive news and very conveniently doesn't mention anything about how let's say state of decay is doing or crackdown. Never goes out of his way to say anything but the bare minimum to avoid him being wrong or maybe the fact he isn't a insider. Then you are very credulous.

Also just name me, and the ton of other people that put up a lot of very good points about his behaviour. Everything points against him we don't just have this magical opinion, there is logical reasons to distrust him.

Dude look at your post history in this thread. You were seriously calling out Shinobi, who has been pretty on point for a lot of leaks/info in gaf.
I'm all for having discussion, and I understand if someone makes claimes they need to back them up with something tangible.

But When people bring up poster's like SHinobi, tweets from phil and what not about software you start calling out or questioning the reasoning. No one here is taking it at Gospel, but we can at least look at thing's at face value. That's why this thread even exists we are talking about the state of xbox first/second party software.
Things will get discussed people who have followed gaf, and xbox will have opinion some of those very valid when looking at some of the signs as in knowing what projects are being worked on by who.

And how many actual studios are working on unknown unannounced titles.

You have been on defense more than anyone in the last 5 pages of this thread. Even calling out someone like Shinobi who's been on here for a very, very long time and has been verified, and has been on point 80-90% of the time with information about projects, and internal happenings.

It's almost like you didn't like his opinion because he was a developer and was looking at with maybe a possible skewed view. Which is valid to call out, but nothing he was saying was extreme or non-sensible.

 

[Wedzi]

People (myself included, full disclosure) asked that if he was going to speak as the voice of authority on all MS games everywhere all the time, he should probably provide some sort of proof he knows... anything?

Used to be standard procedure grumble mutter *yells at clouds about so-called insiders*

Anyway, when asked to make some kind of effort to get verified he elected to bounce instead, so probably not a real insider, but who knows.

Hmm fair enough. But we're short on insiders as is and he was the closest thing we had. Besides I don't really recall him saying anything that crazy besides stuff we've heard from other journalists and Shinobi.

*sigh I really hope MS shows some goods at E3. Or maybe I'm just growing out of the brand? idk. Xbox is where I consider I grew up as a gamer, it'll be 10 years on Xbox live for me this June (Halo 3 beta).

 

[JlNX]

I thought you were all on about this

I wish I was talking about that game, Apollo going out there shitting on rats.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Hmm fair enough. But we're short on insiders as is and he was the closest thing we had. Besides I don't really recall him saying anything that crazy besides stuff we've heard from other journalists and Shinobi.

*sigh I really hope MS shows some goods at E3. Or maybe I'm just growing out of the brand? idk. Xbox is were I consider I grew up as a gamer, it'll be 10 years on Xbox live for me this June (Halo 3 beta).

Nah, his posts were decidedly more negative than anything I ever saw Shinobi write, and Shinobi had no trouble speaking his mind.

Honestly, the information he had was not worth the trouble of his presence, simply because if you are gonna post as cynically and as matter-of-factly as he did, then you cant get upset when people want to see the "proof" that's being used to constantly disprove their hopes/speculation.

And another serious question: What insider information did he have besides letting everyone know what wasn't being developed?

The only thing that's ever tossed around when this gets bought up is him having some MVC:I info previous to its announcement, but I cant think of a single other thing he had "inside" information on.

Because there's starting to be quite a few people who "know people in the industry", yet never produce anything of substance besides letting people know something isn't happening.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Hmm fair enough. But we're short on insiders as is and he was the closest thing we had. Besides I don't really recall him saying anything that crazy besides stuff we've heard from other journalists and Shinobi.

*sigh I really hope MS shows some goods at E3. Or maybe I'm just growing out of the brand? idk. Xbox is where I consider I grew up as a gamer, it'll be 10 years on Xbox live for me this June (Halo 3 beta).

I feel like saying that there's literally nothing coming down that's remotely unexpected is the kind of claim that should need some sort of evidence that it's not just trolling? Especially if you're going to claim total certainty; outside-insiders like Shinobi who just have large networks tend to couch their statements in more uncertainty because they don't know literally everybody.

But yeah, I feel you. The wait for E3 has been a tough one this go 'round and I'm not at all confident that MS is gonna deliver.

I thought you were all on about this

Holy shit I forgot this existed. The memories...

 

[Chris1]

Nah, his posts were decidedly more negative than anything I ever saw Shinobi write, and Shinobi had no trouble speaking his mind.

Honestly, the information he had was not worth the trouble of his presence, simply because if you are gonna post as cynically and as matter-of-factly as he did, then you cant get upset when people want to see the "proof" that's being used to constantly disprove their hopes/speculation.

And another serious question: What insider information did he have besides letting everyone know what wasn't being developed?

The only thing that's ever tossed around when this gets bought up is him having some MVC:I info previous to its announcement, but I cant think of a single other thing he had "inside" information on.

Because there's starting to be quite a few people who "know people in the industry", yet never produce anything of substance besides letting people know something isn't happening.

Exactly, Shinobi more or less the same stuff Sneakers said but there's a difference between the way Shinobi put it "As far as I'm aware they don't have much" and the way Sneakers puts it "They don't have anything but Gears Halo Forza. What's that? a new IP being tossed around? No, they don't have anything. Don't get your hopes up."

I miss Shinobi, he gave good info even if it wasn't what we wanted to hear at times at least he wasn't a dick about it.

 

[Wedzi]

I feel like saying that there's literally nothing coming down that's remotely unexpected is the kind of claim that should need some sort of evidence that it's not just trolling? Especially if you're going to claim total certainty; outside-insiders like Shinobi who just have large networks tend to couch their statements in more uncertainty because they don't know literally everybody.

But yeah, I feel you. The wait for E3 has been a tough one this go 'round and I'm not at all confident that MS is gonna deliver.

Really it was the quote from Shinobi about how the time has passed at the beginning of the year where he usually hears about large projects in production from MS Game Studios but it was uncharacteristically quite from previous years. It was from this very thread I believe.

But yeah, I definitely understand the put up or shut up mentality for insiders. If only Bish was still around.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Really it was the quote from Shinobi about how the time has passed at the beginning of the year where he usually hears about large projects in production from MS Game Studios but it was uncharacteristically quite from previous years. It was from this very thread I believe.

But yeah, I definitely understand the put up or shut up mentality for insiders. If only Bish was still around.

Right, "I'm not hearing about it if they exist" is different from "it absolutely doesn't exist and trust me because reasons."

 

[Wedzi]

Right, "I'm not hearing about it if they exist" is different from "it absolutely doesn't exist and trust me because reasons."

 

[JlNX]

Dude look at your post history in this thread. You were seriously calling out Shinobi, who has been pretty on point for a lot of leaks/info in gaf.
I'm all for having discussion, and I understand if someone makes claimes they need to back them up with something tangible.

But When people bring up poster's like SHinobi, tweets from phil and what not about software you start calling out or questioning the reasoning. No one here is taking it at Gospel, but we can at least look at thing's at face value. That's why this thread even exists we are talking about the state of xbox first/second party software.
Things will get discussed people who have followed gaf, and xbox will have opinion some of those very valid when looking at some of the signs as in knowing what projects are being worked on by who.

And how many actual studios are working on unknown unannounced titles.

You have been on defense more than anyone in the last 5 pages of this thread. Even calling out someone like Shinobi who's been on here for a very, very long time and has been verified, and has been on point 80-90% of the time with information about projects, and internal happenings.

It's almost like you didn't like his opinion because he was a developer and was looking at with maybe a possible skewed view. Which is valid to call out, but nothing he was saying was extreme or non-sensible.

Where did I call out Shinobi or distrust his opinion? I brought up the fact that Shinobi has been dissapointed with MS because of their lack of story based games and that he sees it as a negative. I remembered the tweet so I added context to it. If I distrusted him or was calling him out why would I believe him completely when he says they don't have anything story based in the works. Believe me if Shinobi says something I trust it till proven wrong, but you also have to realise that not everyone knows everything which Shinobi would not say he does. But if everyone takes everything as a definitive it's very hard to have a converstation even one worth having.

Do you honestly not see the multiple reasons why it's hard to trust Sneakers, are you really trying to tell me that is some how invalidated. It's not face value when people take it as fact in conversation. Now your trying to put this straw man together of me having a thing for developers are you kidding me? Nothing extreme or non-sensible, you mean a answer that just said no and added nothing to the conversation gave no proof a stance he seems to take on everything. Also if you only go a few pages back you can read my conversation with Salty and you would realise my opinion is very balanced, I try to go about all my posts with a level of logic. You understand things have to be questioned? you come of very credulous not someone who questions the evidence of a post.

Now I would prefer if the conversation was more constructive and less time consuming than this, so hopefully you and me can have a more constructive conversation about MS studios. I like when people have a opinion behind their posts it makes it more interesting, but calling me out as a developer hater for no reason is a bit much. If I came of a certain way to you that was not my intent, I simply saw a reason to question a poster like many others in the thread sorry if I was not clear enough. I just like to go about the conversation in a logical fact driven way that way there isn't this grey area of guessing with some people taking it as fact and others not. Hopefully are next conversation is something more interesting than sneakers, but we might have to wait to E3 to talk about non the less I look forward to it just like any other conversation.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Truly the greatest voice of wisdom in our generation.

 

[Papacheeks]

Where did I call out Shinobi or distrust his opinion? I brought up the fact that Shinobi has been dissapointed with MS because of their lack of story based games and that he sees it as a negative. I remembered the tweet so I added context to it. If I distrusted him or was calling him out why would I believe him completely when he says they don't have anything story based in the works. Believe me if Shinobi says something I trust it till proven wrong, but you also have to realise that not everyone knows everything which Shinobi would not say he does. But if everyone takes everything as a definitive it's very hard to have a converstation even one worth having.

Do you honestly not see the multiple reasons why it's hard to trust Sneakers, are you really trying to tell me that is some how invalidated. It's not face value when people take it as fact in conversation. Now your trying to put this straw man together of me having a thing for developers are you kidding me? Nothing extreme or non-sensible, you mean a answer that just said no and added nothing to the conversation gave no proof a stance he seems to take on everything. Also if you only go a few pages back you can read my conversation with Salty and you would realise my opinion is very balanced, I try to go about all my posts with a level of logic. You understand things have to be questioned? you come of very credulous not someone who questions the evidence of a post.

Now I would prefer if the conversation was more constructive and less time consuming than this, so hopefully you and me can have a more constructive conversation about MS studios. I like when people have a opinion behind their posts it makes it more interesting, but calling me out as a developer hater for no reason is a bit much. If I came of a certain way to you that was not my intent, I simply saw a reason to question a poster like many others in the thread sorry if I was not clear enough. I just like to go about the conversation in a logical fact driven way that way there isn't this grey area of guessing with some people taking it as fact and others not. Hopefully are next conversation is something more interesting than sneakers, but we might have to wait to E3 to talk about non the less I look forward to it just like any other conversation.

I'm not saying take sneakers at face value I'm saying he's just reiterating what people like shinobi, MH Williams and other people with insider knowledge. Maybe he took it too far as to treat it like Gospel, which by all means call him out on it which you guys did.

But you literally were talking about Shinobi being too negative or speaking his mind on microsoft. The reason why he has is he knows what he hears from people in the know.

You forget that Shinobi is coming at it from his own personal view, were he prefers story based games. If all the games in development are similar to SOT and crackdown then he is obviously not going to be enthused.

I remember the question, it wasn't about E3 but someone asking about his personal opinion on the future of MS studios. Which is why I bring up the fact that Shinobi's opinion is going to depend on story based games being an interest for Microsoft. That's more than likely why his says diversity in the lineup is important not quantity, he probably see's a lot of multiplayer, GAAS or all around not story focused games in development. You have seen the way Shinobi has responded to some publishers like Ubisoft moving away from story based games.

Some of it was Shinobi's opinion but, grounded with knowing of the cancellations and closures that have happened lately the budget for anything xbox outside of what was allotted for scorpio was/is tightening. Which he iterated in a previous thread, believe it was scalebound cancellation thread.

But the guy has been spot on, regardless if you think it's more of his opinion than anything. Even MH Williams wrote and article because there was some validity to what was happening software wise for xbox.

 

[HeisenbergWW62]

I understand why some are skeptical of Sneakers, but if he were in here saying that MS has 10 new IP's that will be announced at E3 and GTAVI, Cyberpunk, and Elder Scrolls VI were exclusives everyone in here would probably believe him lol

 

[Dabanton]

Nah, his posts were decidedly more negative than anything I ever saw Shinobi write, and Shinobi had no trouble speaking his mind.

Honestly, the information he had was not worth the trouble of his presence, simply because if you are gonna post as cynically and as matter-of-factly as he did, then you cant get upset when people want to see the "proof" that's being used to constantly disprove their hopes/speculation.

And another serious question: What insider information did he have besides letting everyone know what wasn't being developed?

The only thing that's ever tossed around when this gets bought up is him having some MVC:I info previous to its announcement, but I cant think of a single other thing he had "inside" information on.

Because there's starting to be quite a few people who "know people in the industry", yet never produce anything of substance besides letting people know something isn't happening.

Pretty much this. Sneakers thing is all of his 'insider' style posts basically made him out to be damm near omnipresent, especially it seemed on MS games or as he repeatedly chimed in (the lack of them lol lol).

Some people seem to be alluding that he was run off because all he shared was negative thoughts. Plenty of Xbox fans in these threads share less than stellar things it's a discussion after all. I think it was more that if your going to cast yourself as an authority you need to show the receipts sometimes. The fact he took his toys and hasn't been back to these threads speaks volumes.

In anycase if he is a dev or works in that world he should maybe exercise some discretion and just keep stuff to himself. If he is a dev his obviously under NDA and if people have talked to him and his blabbing on the internet then that's pretty shitty.

Someone like Shinobi lays his rumors out with caution and admits when he only knows a small part of the story. Massive difference from just saying trust me.

I understand why some are skeptical of Sneakers, but if he were in here saying that MS has 10 new IP's that will be announced at E3 and GTAVI, Cyberpunk, and Elder Scrolls VI were exclusives everyone in here would probably believe him lol

That would be just as silly.

 

[JlNX]

I'm not saying take sneakers at face value I'm saying he's just reiterating what people like shinobi, MH Williams and other people with insider knowledge. Maybe he took it too far as to treat it like Gospel, which by all means call him out on it which you guys did.

But you literally were talking about Shinobi being too negative or speaking his mind on microsoft. The reason why he has is he knows what he hears from people in the know.

I never said anywhere that Shinobi was to negative, I honestly have no idea were you got that from any of my posts. I simply said that Shinobi's opinion of MS studios (which was the context of the tweet) was going to depend on story based games being in development at MS. As someone who prefers story based games, I share a similar dissapointed outlook, but I will give SOT and others GAAS a chance because I like quite a few of them up till now (like destiny which I hope has a better story.) I understand that, that is why I trust him because he been proven right a ton and goes about everything in a logical manner. I don't know how you could ever think Shinobi is overly negative considering he gives a lot of stuff the benefit of the doubt. If you got that from any of my posts that was definitely not the intent at all!, I was simply adding context sorry if it came of in a certain way to you. No one else seems to have seen it, as many would call something like that out me included.

 

[wapplew]

I understand why some are skeptical of Sneakers, but if he were in here saying that MS has 10 new IP's that will be announced at E3 and GTAVI, Cyberpunk, and Elder Scrolls VI were exclusives everyone in here would probably believe him lol

You all misunderstood Sneakers intentions, he lower expectations so that everyone minds will blow at E3 conference.
Get ready for the announcement of every projects from 2017 to 2020.

 

[HeisenbergWW62]

That would be just as silly.

Obviously I was being hyperbolic, but the point is that if he was saying positive things that they have a really great lineup coming at E3 people would be more inclined to believe him, because it's what they want

Go read old playstation threads with Verendus. In hindsight, so much of what he said should have been obvious bs, but people believed him because it's what they wanted to hear

 

[Papacheeks]

I never said anywhere that Shinobi was to negative, I honestly have no idea were you got that from any of my posts. I simply said that Shinobi's opinion of MS studios (which was the context of the tweet) was going to depend on story based games being in development at MS. As someone who prefers story based games, I share a similar dissapointed outlook, but I will give SOT and others GAAS a chance because I like quite a few of them up till now (like destiny which I hope has a better story.) I understand that, that is why I trust him because he been proven right a ton and goes about everything in a logical manner. I don't know how you could ever think Shinobi is overly negative considering he gives a lot of stuff the benefit of the doubt. If you got that from any of my posts that was definitely not the intent at all!, I was simply adding context sorry if it came of in a certain way to you. No one else seems to have seen it, as many would call something like that out me included.

Yea, it might of been the way I read it since you and Vivek or whatever his name is were quoting tweets from a while back that he said about MS studios.

I'm saying there's a reason he has that outlook and it isn't just because of the type of games. There is a post shinobi made during the whole scalebound fiasco that was about Phil harrison games as a service, and I believe someone else in that thread brought up how a fable 4 was pitched by Lion head and it was shot down for GAAS fable legends which they had no clue how to make.

Which goes into MS the parent company wary of putting big money down for big new AAA IP's unless it's service game with renewable income.

 

[Chobel]

I never said anywhere that Shinobi was to negative, I honestly have no idea were you got that from any of my posts. I simply said that Shinobi's opinion of MS studios (which was the context of the tweet) was going to depend on story based games being in development at MS. As someone who prefers story based games, I share a similar dissapointed outlook, but I will give SOT and others GAAS a chance because I like quite a few of them up till now (like destiny which I hope has a better story.) I understand that, that is why I trust him because he been proven right a ton and goes about everything in a logical manner. I don't know how you could ever think Shinobi is overly negative considering he gives a lot of stuff the benefit of the doubt. If you got that from any of my posts that was definitely not the intent at all!, I was simply adding context sorry if it came of in a certain way to you. No one else seems to have seen it, as many would call something like that out me included.

Did he actually say that? I was under the impression he was talking about all MS output, not just single player games.

 

[HeisenbergWW62]

Did he actually say that? I was under the impression he was talking about all MS output, not just single player games.

I think it was first party output, not sure if that's means only first party studios or all games that they publish

 

[chaosmaster(1)]

I think it was first party output, not sure if that's means only first party studios or all games that they publish

It would be all games they publish since we pretty much know what all their internal teams are up to.

 

[HeisenbergWW62]

It would be all games they publish since we pretty much know what all their internal teams are up to.

Yea probably, I'm gonna go look for the exact quotes. Should be easy considering he hasn't posted in a while lol

 

[JlNX]

Yea, it might of been the way I read it since you and Vivek or whatever his name is were quoting tweets from a while back that he said about MS studios.

I'm saying there's a reason he has that outlook and it isn't just because of the type of games. There is a post shinobi made during the whole scalebound fiasco that was about Phil harrison games as a service, and I believe someone else in that thread brought up how a fable 4 was pitched by Lion head and it was shot down for GAAS fable legends which they had no clue how to make.

Which goes into MS the parent company wary of putting big money down for big new AAA IP's unless it's service game with renewable income.

I remember the Phil Harrison post being brought up by someone else, I think it was from the Kotaku lionhead closure story. The Fable 4 story was a interview with one of the old directors on lionhead, but honestly Fable 4 did not sound good to me personally. A industrial age city open world fable about jack the ripper is not what I want out of a Fable game. The most important part about Fable is the world the humour and child like wonder of it. There was a very recent GDC talk held by one of the key creators of fable talking about how the world was so important, it was a really great talk for any Fable fans. It really points out the issues as the series went on.

Did he actually say that? I was under the impression he was talking about all MS output, not just single player games.

Oh no he talked about the whole line up as him not seeing much coming along, but he talked about his disapointment in the fact that MS was focusing so much on GAAS and multiplayer and how single player was being neglected. That a diverse portfolio was important to MS success.

 

[HeisenbergWW62]

Ok here's shinobi's posts for those interested

Honestly there's a serious lack of single player story driven games. Well, exclusive ones at least. Everything is literally MP focused. Forza 7, State of Decay, Sea of Thieves, Crackdown...(and I've heard Crackdown isn't going too hot either, though nothing as bad as this).

Unless they have a bunch of first party studios secretly tucked away somewhere (which they don't that I know of), I genuinely struggle to think of what surprises they could have at E3 *as of right now*.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227956027

I heard about Scalebound's cancellation last week, and since then I've talked to a few people. One's a first party developer and mentioned they haven't heard anything internally about 'new' first party stuff, when they usually have in the past, and slowly realizing that, perhaps that's because there barely is any.

Again, there's E3 coming, so there's bound to be at least one surprise. Always is. As of right now (January), I haven't heard anything. I will closer to E3.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228022587

like I've said, unless they have entire first party studios secretly hidden away somewhere, I personally can not deduce who might be working on a surprise. 343 is working on Halo, that's their bread and butter. The Coalition is on Gears, Turn 10 is on Forza, Rare is on Sea of Thieves and other prototypes (that aren't anywhere near ready to be shown), Lionhead's gone...

This first party source noted to me that this time last year they had clear knowledge about what's coming in pipeline but right now it's radio silent, which to them says not much is on the horizon, software wise.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228023617

I'm not saying there's "0". What I said is what I said. There's nothing that I personally know about for now. Playground just finished Forza Horizon, a huge endeavor that took up all the studio's resources, Remedy's next game is multiplatform and not anywhere near ready, Undead is on State of Decay.

Their deals with studios that produced things like Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Recore, Quantum Break all failed in terms of financial success. They're all dead. That's the problem.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228029463

I like Phil overall but I feel like this continues to happen. Our very own MH Williams put up an article going over all the things announced in 2014 that have all but been axed: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/revi...ering-the-dead

I almost forgot how much.

Every time this happens, fans start questioning him and the platform's direction, Phil gives the standard reply "we're committed to games and first party", and then you get the "Ok, phew, thanks Phil!" though that seems to be waning now.




Besides Rare, which is basically their new IP testbed though relegated to service driven games, Turn 10 works on Forza, Black Tusk was transformed into a Gears factory, 343 is relegated to Halo...it's just tired at this point. To me anyway, even though I still enjoy those series a lot. I want Xbox around forever. I was there day one with my OG Xbox and fell mad in love with Halo, but damn...give us new and exciting things man. I mean nurturing internal first party talent, not signing more deals that don't go anywhere.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228119227

 

[JlNX]

Ok here's shinobi's posts for those interested



http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227956027



http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228022587



http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228023617



http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228029463



http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=228119227

Thank you, when I saw he still had an average 14 posts a day after being away a while I dreaded having to search through it.

EDIT:

Honestly I remember him being a lot more definitive and critical than this.

 

[RoKKeR]

Besides Rare, which is basically their new IP testbed though relegated to service driven games, Turn 10 works on Forza, Black Tusk was transformed into a Gears factory, 343 is relegated to Halo...it's just tired at this point. To me anyway, even though I still enjoy those series a lot. I want Xbox around forever. I was there day one with my OG Xbox and fell mad in love with Halo, but damn...give us new and exciting things man. I mean nurturing internal first party talent, not signing more deals that don't go anywhere.

This is the biggest problem I have with MS's first party output right now. They have some of the most talented developers in the world, and they are shackled to franchises that are far past their time. There is hardly any opportunity for these studios to be creative... hell the Hotwheels expansion might be the most creative MS Studios-published content in recent memory, lol.

343 and Coalition should be splintered into two team studios -> one managing new Halo/Gears and one building new IP.

Games are a great opportunity to do *new* things... taking people to new worlds, introducing people to new characters, and new ways of playing games. So far MS Studios does not endorse this type of game. They support high quality, known quantity endeavors, which is great... until people start looking for something new.

I think we've reached the point where people are unequivocally looking for something new.

 

[Salty Hippo]

WCCFTech speculates on Sea of Thieves' slow-ass progress:

http://wccftech.com/rare-sea-of-thieves-away-thought/

Been calling 2018 at the earliest since E3 2016. It has always been so obvious for anyone who follows this game closely that the release was a long way off. Still think it hits between March and Summer 2018 in Game Preview. Or full release in Q1 2019.

 

[JlNX]

This is the biggest problem I have with MS's first party output right now. They have some of the most talented developers in the world, and they are shackled to franchises that are far past their time. There is hardly any opportunity for these studios to be creative... hell the Hotwheels expansion might be the most creative MS Studios-published content in recent memory, lol.

343 and Coalition should be splintered into two team studios -> one managing new Halo/Gears and one building new IP.

Games are a great opportunity to do *new* things... taking people to new worlds, introducing people to new characters, and new ways of playing games. So far MS Studios does not endorse this type of game. They support high quality, known quantity endeavors, which is great... until people start looking for something new.

I think we've reached the point where people are unequivocally looking for something new.

Yeh I agree I even made this post aways back in the thread about the way studios should be set up to allow that:

If I were to go about the best way to structure MS studios and their production times I would go with something like this:

343 - A 4-5 year production time (due to the team size 450 plus)
- Focus on internal tech and Halo engine (lead studio)
- Focus on core content (Maps, modes etc)
- 3 Team approach to development, Live team, production team and prototyping team
- A 3 year GAAS support time after launch followed by a year of small updates
- Rockstars approach of just building on the core fundamentals to massive heights
(open world size, intractability, AI, LOD and graphics etc.)
- Using Halo as a core platform feature not game
- Using Halo to emphasise platform features (Live, Cloud, Arena etc.)

Coalition - A four team approach, Live team, Production team A, Production team B & Prototype
- Two franchise approach, alternating between the two at a two year gap
- Refocusing of gears to it’s original war story and horrors elements
- Focus on holding on to it’s TPS crown, but continue to redefine it rather than stagnate
- A more clear focus on story, as their other studios don’t have a focus in this area
- A new IP that can follow the GAAS model but is story focused single player
- A live team that works across both franchises
- A prototype teamed that is constantly in pre-production for both franchises
- A increase in team size were appropriate
- A four year development time with smaller production teams (100-150)
- Rod organising a studio heads structure
- Defining clear creative leads within the studio, Rod focuses on management

Turn 10 - A three studio approach, Playground, Turn 10 & a new studio
- A new franchise entry for Forza, Motorsport, Horizon & Underground?
- A three year development cycle for Horizon and Underground
- A four year development cycle for motorsport (2 per generation)
- A focus on a longer multiplayer focused GAAS model
- A redesigned GAAS model that doesn’t focus on car packs but expansions
- A introduction of cosmetic transactions to lower expansion entry price
- Free race track model, subsidised
- A focus on building a competitive model for Motorsport
- Horizon continuing to focus on expanding the casual audience
- Underground would not follow any GAAS model to avoid competition and team size

Rare - Blizzard model of multiple GAAS games with long-tail support
- Evergreen studio, studio is seen as a revenue generator rather than IP studio
- Internal Publishing team focused on reviving old franchises (IG would report to Rare)
- Continue a New IP focus, it’s good to have a studio known for that
- GAAS Focus (their studio started restructuring two years ago) they have handled it very well
- Platform focused, Rare is seen as integral as xbox live to the platform revenue model
- Embrace history to build a studio image similar to a Nintendo or Rockstar
- Rare seen as a publishing label for other internal MS studio projects (Ori etc)
- Multi team approach, multiple live teams supporting multiple GAAS titles and prototype
- Community driven design, not in prototype but polish and content generation
- 4-6 Year development times using small core teams
- Focus on constant prototyping for new IP and existing GAAS
- Eventual Multi small studio style approach, similar to Dice
- Studios shouldn’t eclipse 150 people
- Eventual solely live team studio accompanying the main studio
Mojang - Internal indie development, developed by the Minecraft teams (Cobalt, scrolls etc.)
- Continue to do what their doing

Microsoft Studios Development team (90 Developers Seattle) (?? Developers England)
- Continue to focus the publishing arm on second party studios (Undead labs etc.)
- Development on core MS studio PC franchises ( AOE, Mech series etc.)

Lionhead - Rebuilding the studio from the ground up to support the large RPG model
- They have shown they know how to build internal studios with coalition and 343
- Small 30 people creative leads team that builds the studio
- Focus on large open world RPG market (Witcher, Fallout etc)
- One large team focused on a single project over 4 years
- GAAS support through large expansions
- Second smaller team focused on expansion content
- Core engine and technology team, Prototyping team

I wouldn’t expand First party anymore than this, it would also have to be expanded slowly over time especially in Rare’s case. I would also have a team working solely on the Pc Platform similar to the xbox platform team. A store that is viable would go along way in making this sort of restructuring more viable in the short term.

 

[wapplew]

This is the biggest problem I have with MS's first party output right now. They have some of the most talented developers in the world, and they are shackled to franchises that are far past their time. There is hardly any opportunity for these studios to be creative... hell the Hotwheels expansion might be the most creative MS Studios-published content in recent memory, lol.

343 and Coalition should be splintered into two team studios -> one managing new Halo/Gears and one building new IP.

Games are a great opportunity to do *new* things... taking people to new worlds, introducing people to new characters, and new ways of playing games. So far MS Studios does not endorse this type of game. They support high quality, known quantity endeavors, which is great... until people start looking for something new.

I think we've reached the point where people are unequivocally looking for something new.

Why is that a problem? Every publishers does it, IW/TA/SH shackled to make CoD forever, EA Canada shackled to make FIFA forever.
It take Blizzard over 20 years to finally make a new IP, 10 years for Guerrilla game to up with Horizon, ND only make new IP after 3 entry of same franchise and SSM still stuck with God of War after their new thing fail.
Those MS studios are still new, 343 only make 2 mainline Halo and Coalition just shipped their first game. Besides, fans need to put money where they mouth is when they ask for new things.
Nintendo fans show up when Nintendo make a shooter, where is the support when MS studio publish something new?

 

[JlNX]

WCCFTech speculates on Sea of Thieves' slow-ass progress:

http://wccftech.com/rare-sea-of-thieves-away-thought/

Been calling 2018 at the earliest since E3 2016. It has always been so obvious for anyone who follows this game closely that the release was a long way off. Still think it hits between March and Summer 2018 in Game Preview. Or full release in Q1 2019.

Yep it's one of the things that solidified my opinion that it wouldn't come out this year. I hope wccftech, realises that it is subject to NDA there is a reason they don't want this to be known to the public so it can't be misconstrued in any way. But I see a Q2 release as the most likely release date pushing to Q3 September for the full game, unlike others I just don't see them putting it in game preview it devalues the game to much. You don't get a second launch, you don't get second impressions. It seems to risky a avenue to go for such a large budget project, I see them prioritising have expansions at least starting development before they release the game tho.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

WCCFTech speculates on Sea of Thieves' slow-ass progress:

http://wccftech.com/rare-sea-of-thieves-away-thought/

Been calling 2018 at the earliest since E3 2016. It has always been so obvious for anyone who follows this game closely that the release was a long way off. Still think it hits between March and Summer 2018 in Game Preview. Or full release in Q1 2019.

It needs to be early 2018, not just for game completeness sake, but because releasing a new IP in the fall against Destiny 2, COD WW2, Assassins Cresd, MvC, Shadow of War, Red Dead 2, Battlefront 2, etc is suicide. They already screwed over Sunset that way

 

[sam12]

Not liking this episodic content/games as service with transactions push that Phil Spencer seems to be going for. It's as if they admit they are horrible at making single player games unlike Sony, according to Spencer, and will push for multiplayer service games like Destiny. I also don't understand how he can say that Zelda or Horizon have less impact than they would in the past when Zelda is responsible for the positive Switch sales with 1:1 attachment ratio and Horizon has sold extremely well so far. You would think he would get inspired by them to make some similar games for Xbox but no he is stuck with Destiny.

 

[Figments]

Why is that a problem? Every publishers does it, IW/TA/SH shackled to make CoD forever, EA Canada shackled to make FIFA forever.
It take Blizzard over 20 years to finally make a new IP, 10 years for Guerrilla game to up with Horizon, ND only make new IP after 3 entry of same franchise and SSM still stuck with God of War after their new thing fail.
Those MS studios are still new, 343 only make 2 mainline Halo and Coalition just shipped their first game. Besides, fans need to put money where they mouth is when they ask for new things.
Nintendo fans show up when Nintendo make a shooter, where is the support when MS studio publish something new?

This so much.

It's a thing that's been on my mind in recent months given all this diversity talk. Like, you say they don't have a diverse lineup, but when they actually release something different, no one fucking buys it because it's not what they wanted.

Like, what do you guys want, then? 'Cause it seems like you already made up your minds that nothing Microsoft does is something you want.

It's a shitty attitude that needs to stop. There is an argument to be had for diversity, but the people who proclaim to make it aren't doing a good job of it.

 

[Wedzi]

This so much.

It's a thing that's been on my mind in recent months given all this diversity talk. Like, you say they don't have a diverse lineup, but when they actually release something different, no one fucking buys it because it's not what they wanted.

Like, what do you guys want, then? 'Cause it seems like you already made up your minds that nothing Microsoft does is something you want.

It's a shitty attitude that needs to stop. There is an argument to be had for diversity, but the people who proclaim to make it aren't doing a good job of it.

They probably want good diverse games. Just a hunch. Ryse, Zoo Tycoon, Quantum Break, Project Spark, Screamride, Recore. I'll give you Sunset Overdrive I loved the shit out of that game but is really anyone gonna go to bat for the others I've mentioned?

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

They probably want good diverse games. Just a hunch. Ryse, Zoo Tycoon, Quantum Break, Project Spark, Screamride, Recore. I'll give you Sunset Overdrive I loved the shit out of that game but is really anyone gonna go to bat for the others I've mentioned?

Yes?

Zoo Tycoon, QB, Recore and Ryse are solid games.

You trolling or...?

 

[JaggedSac]

I understand why some are skeptical of Sneakers, but if he were in here saying that MS has 10 new IP's that will be announced at E3 and GTAVI, Cyberpunk, and Elder Scrolls VI were exclusives everyone in here would probably believe him lol

No, they would say the same thing..."get yo ass verified".

 

[daTRUballin]

Exactly, Shinobi more or less the same stuff Sneakers said but there's a difference between the way Shinobi put it "As far as I'm aware they don't have much" and the way Sneakers puts it "They don't have anything but Gears Halo Forza. What's that? a new IP being tossed around? No, they don't have anything. Don't get your hopes up."

I miss Shinobi, he gave good info even if it wasn't what we wanted to hear at times at least he wasn't a dick about it.

Wait, what happened to Shinobi?

 

[Wedzi]

Yes?

Zoo Tycoon, QB, Recore and Ryse are solid games.

You trolling or...?

Oh come on now. None of those games even scratch over 80 on Open Critic. I hate bringing up aggregate review scores but here we are. Listen, all of those are OK games at best, some fans like them other find them poor drivel or at best missed opportunities. But you can't be shitting on Xbox players for not wanting to pick them up compared to other games on the market.

 

[eerik9000]

Wait, what happened to Shinobi?

Was berated because he liked Mass Effect Andromeda, as far as I know... Decided to leave.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Wait, what happened to Shinobi?

He left because people couldn't deal with him liking Mass Effect Andromeda. They hounded him and said he was basically just trying to sell the game rather than genuinely liking it.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Is Play Asia usually reliable with pre order pages?

They have a page for Below physical manufactured by MS
http://www.play-asia.com/below/13/706pdx

 

[Wedzi]

Wait, what happened to Shinobi?

Shinobi just got tired of Neogaf. Really the straw the broke the camels back was about his positive preview he wrote for us about his early time with Mass Effect Andromeda, and then people endlessly shitting on him for it. Go look at the review thread if you're curious.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

This so much.

It's a thing that's been on my mind in recent months given all this diversity talk. Like, you say they don't have a diverse lineup, but when they actually release something different, no one fucking buys it because it's not what they wanted.

Like, what do you guys want, then? 'Cause it seems like you already made up your minds that nothing Microsoft does is something you want.

It's a shitty attitude that needs to stop. There is an argument to be had for diversity, but the people who proclaim to make it aren't doing a good job of it.

I think there are various reasons for why a product does not perform well. It isn't solely "because they didn't want it".

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Oh come on now. None of those games even scratch over 80 on Open Critic. I hate bringing up aggregate review scores but here we are. Listen, all of those are OK games at best, some fans like them other find them poor drivel or at best missed opportunities. But you can't be shitting on Xbox players for not wanting to pick them up compared to other games on the market.

Ahhh so now games are only good if we magically set the bar at 80 on open critic. Gotcha. *eye roll*

 

[Salty Hippo]

This so much.

It's a thing that's been on my mind in recent months given all this diversity talk. Like, you say they don't have a diverse lineup, but when they actually release something different, no one fucking buys it because it's not what they wanted.

Like, what do you guys want, then? 'Cause it seems like you already made up your minds that nothing Microsoft does is something you want.

It's a shitty attitude that needs to stop. There is an argument to be had for diversity, but the people who proclaim to make it aren't doing a good job of it.

Blaming the lack of diversity on gaffers is one of the most insane things I've ever read on this forum. People here are hardcore and I'm sure most Xbox owners who have expressed diversity concerns are buying those new games. Because obviously they WANT diversity.

The only thing your point proves is that Xbox's audience on large scale is really made up mostly of dudebros who play the same shit over and over. Yet when things like that are said here, posters like you get pissed and say otherwise. I know I've got a ton of shit for saying that around here. And if it really is an audience/demographics problem, it's 100% Microsoft's fault for completely failing to nurture and expand that audience into something bigger and wider.

 

[Wedzi]

Ahhh so now games are only good if we magically set the bar at 80 on open critic. Gotcha. *eye roll*

Do you have a better way of gauging gamers opinion on the quality of a game? If it doesn't review well, if it doesn't sell well... maybe, just maybe they're not good games. But god forbid we blame MS, its the fans who are at fault!

 

[Mass Effect]

This so much.

It's a thing that's been on my mind in recent months given all this diversity talk. Like, you say they don't have a diverse lineup, but when they actually release something different, no one fucking buys it because it's not what they wanted.

Like, what do you guys want, then? 'Cause it seems like you already made up your minds that nothing Microsoft does is something you want.

It's a shitty attitude that needs to stop. There is an argument to be had for diversity, but the people who proclaim to make it aren't doing a good job of it.

It's not the average Gaffer/internet gamer enthusiast's fault that these games aren't selling well. There's only so many of us.

I mean hell, even if you look at some of the "different" games from Sony's side that GAF clamors about (Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2, etc.) it's not like those games sold all that well either. But the difference is the expectations, it seems like, between the two companies on how these games will perform.

It's also not the consumers' fault for rejecting games they have no interest in. You can't say "oh you wanted something different, *this* is different so buy it!" and expect them to fall in line. That's not how it works.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Is Play Asia usually reliable with pre order pages?

They have a page for Below physical manufactured by MS
http://www.play-asia.com/below/13/706pdx

I wouldn't be shocked if that page hasn't been updated since E3 2013.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Oh come on now. None of those games even scratch over 80 on Open Critic. I hate bringing up aggregate review scores but here we are. Listen, all of those are OK games at best, some fans like them other find them poor drivel or at best missed opportunities. But you can't be shitting on Xbox players for not wanting to pick them up compared to other games on the market.

Agreed that the Xbox customers in no way should be blamed for not throwing money at those games that didn't work out as they'd hoped, but I think it's being brought up in discussion cause there seems to be some revisionist history that because these games didn't turn out well, it's like MSFT never developed and released attempts at new IP and diversifying their lineup.

Unfortunately, this gen hasn't been a successful one for new IP for Xbox (Ori being the only resounding success thus far).

Is Play Asia usually reliable with pre order pages?

They have a page for Below physical manufactured by MS
http://www.play-asia.com/below/13/706pdx

That would be...surprising for Below to get a physical release imo. Hopefully it's coming out this year though, looks really cool.