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Video Game Hall of Fame adds ‘Halo: Combat Evolved,’ and 3 More

Revan

Member
First off, I think the concept of a VG HoF is kinda ridiculous.

That being said - how the hell is Metal Gear/Solid NOT in there?

Kojima created a genre (stealth) and redefined the "cinematic experience" in gaming with a strong story, well written characters, phenomenal voice acting and delivering gameplay that was movieesque in nature.

MG/S helped make gaming to what it is today.

EDIT: And where is TIE Fighter? To this day nothing has ever been released that is quite like it. It's unique, inspired, had a great story and maybe the best gameplay ever.
 

Chief_Mitch

Member
Or they're just aware that GoldenEye's mechanics are pretty awful compared to current consoles FPS games, let alone PC Fps.

There's a reason nothing plays even remotely like GoldenEye today.

Pretty much spot on IMO. I found Goldenye's controls to be absolutely horrible. Halo and Destiny are STILL the only FPS games i enjoy playing on consoles.
 

D.Lo

Member
Halo 1 aged better, set the standard for and perfected console shooters, saved the Xbox, and is the highest rated First Person Shooter of all time.
Lol that is not the point

“Until ‘Halo’s’ launch, the most successful shooters required a personal computer and the precision offered by a high-quality mouse,” said Strong Associate Curator Shannon Symonds. “‘Halo’ proved a console could be just as effective, if not better, than a PC.”

This is factually false when Goldeneye sold more. The only objective measure of success is sales. Goldeneye also sold more than all PC shooters IIRC until years later, so it was THE most commercially successful shooter of all time until probably Halo 2.
 

atr0cious

Member
Microsoft needs to get into salt production. What they make is the best quality.
No salt, some of my best memories are playing Halo in college and being able to literally hook up to the dorm LAN and play anyone on any floor. The best was getting calls to my room and being told to fuck off from some two floors up. Doesn't mean I don't recognize where bungie got inspiration from. Blood gulch looks like a straight up mini tribes map, with the hills and all. The sniper rifle is clearly UT inspired. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Has Goldeneye inspired people to do anything like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxYJMbLM9oQ

This was broadcast on USA.

I realize it's Halo 2 but Halo CE was responsible for it.

IMO MLG wouldn't be where it is today if not for Halo.

Heck, gaming in the eye of the public wouldn't. It wasn't just sales or how many people directly played it. It was the reach it had as well as everything else. I'd never heard of "gaming parties" where lots of people literally come together to play video games and make an actual party out of it before Halo as well. Halo LAN parties became something that was just a thing that people talked about. I mean, it caused people to pack up their giant CRT TV's, consoles and all the wiring and put them in their cars to take to the party spot. People learned tons about networking and routers as well because of it. Going to these parties was just a part of teenage life at the time. It was really special because unlike any other game that would be played, people at the parties that where there just to socialize would actually stop and watch all the time during intense matches. I even remember talking to a college professor about it at the time (Halo LAN party on campus) and remember how crazy it was to me that he thought that it was an awesome phenomenon.

So yeah, for me anyway, I think culturally it did have a bigger impact. Sales aren't everything.
 

D.Lo

Member
Has Goldeneye inspired people to do anything like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxYJMbLM9oQ

This was broadcast on USA.

I realize it's Halo 2 but Halo CE was responsible for it.

IMO MLG wouldn't be where it is today if not for Halo.

Heck, gaming in the eye of the public wouldn't. It wasn't just sales or how many people directly played it. It was the reach it had as well as everything else. I'd never heard of "gaming parties" where lots of people literally come together to play video games and make an actual party out of it before Halo as well. Halo LAN parties became something that was just a thing that people talked about. I mean, it caused people to pack up their giant CRT TV's, consoles and all the wiring and put them in their cars to take to the party spot. People learned tons about networking and routers as well because of it. Going to these parties was just a part of teenage life at the time. It was really special because unlike any other game that would be played, people at the parties that where there just to socialize would actually stop and watch all the time during intense matches. I even remember talking to a college professor about it at the time (Halo LAN party on campus) and remember how crazy it was to me that he thought that it was an awesome phenomenon.

So yeah, for me anyway, I think culturally it did have a bigger impact. Sales aren't everything.
You can prove sales. They are data.

'Cultural impact' is anecdote. It is not data.

Goldeneye sold 30% more copies and came out four years earlier.

It's pretty hard to fucking argue more people had contact with Halo 1 than Goldeneye when it sold more copies. Until the Wii it was the second most popular local multiplayer game of all time (not counting arcade games). The other was Mario Kart.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Need some fries.

In before predictable mod title edit.
 

Released

Member
Halo is a better game than Goldeneye (in my subjective opinion of course), and it's also a more influential and important game. Its control scheme is still the standard for console shooters today. The dual stick aiming (the importance of this just about can't be overstated), the 2 weapon limit, grenade throwing mapped to its own dedicated button. Goldeney's DNA is far less prevalent.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Microsoft Windows Solitaire is legendary.

It should've been first ballot, along with Tetris,
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
Solitare was robbed. Ski Free snub cuts the deepest.

Also​, the blurb for Halo forgets GoldenEye exists.
Bollocks

Golden Eye was cool and all for it's time but let's not pretend the controls weren't an absolute abomination. You certainly weren't getting anything close to the PC suite of controls with Golden Eye. And that's coming from someone who spent weeks on end playing slaps/knives with a room full of people every damn day.

To be sure, damn near every shooter since has adopted it's controls.
 

Synth

Member
If you can perform what the game asks if you with new problems, then the controls are fine. Everything about the game is designed around the controls. How was it's impact fleeting? It literally did akimbo weapons first and then they were perfected in Perfect Dark. The split screen local multiplayer with different modes. Not to mention the first shooter with true force feedback. Lot of revisionist history here.

Sorry, but that's a stupid argument imo, and ties in perfectly with what I said before in regards to it being the Sonic Adventure of FPS games... as that's exactly the defense many Sonic Adventure advocates will fall back on to argue that the game's controls weren't disastrous compared to modern platformers. You have stuff like AGDQ demonstrating that people can be immensely proficient at literally any game in existence, so by this logic there's basically been no game made that isn't mechanically sound. The vast, vast majority of people that attempt to play GoldenEye - both back then and today - will be subjected to some of the worst firefights in multiplayer FPS history, as a result of it's unwieldy controls... I could pull down the first 10 GoldenEye deathmatch clips off YouTube right now, and be pretty confident that every last one would show awful gunplay... whereas I can imagine you'd struggle to find a single clip of anyone playing it with this deadly precision you're claiming your friend had.

Also, GoldenEye didn't do akimbo weapons first... both Marathon games (also by Bungie... look at that!!) had them before it, and mechanically dual-wielding didn't take the form as seen today, where each gun could actually be independently fired until I believe Halo 2 (correct me if I'm wrong). This is actually another situation where Halo's implementation has survived to the current day, whereas GoldenEye's hasn't.

Splitscreen multiplayer I can give it, although that was more a universal N64 standard (Duke Nukem 64 for example also contained split screen multiplayer modes - including campaign co-op - but neither the Saturn or PlayStation Duke Nukem 3D ports do). Force feedback is literally just a hardware occurrence... that's Starfox 64 if anything. Nothing FPS specific came out of that.

Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed playing GoldenEye back in the day (though we switched it out with Turok 2 and Quake 2 later, because both simply played better)... but you can look at games today, and see that for a variety of reasons, they've basically pretended GoldenEye didn't exist, and looked directly at Halo instead.

GoldenEye did very little to actually make FPS games work on a console in a serviceable manner, and pretty much no other games released after it gained any notable momentum as a result of the things it implemented. And this isn't just down to the lack of dual-analog as standard either. Sony had that covered back on the PS1, with Alien Resurrection first making use of them... but stuff like Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, Deus-Ex and the like all still played like shit with a joypad, even post GoldenEye (with none adopting anything from it mechanically).

Halo brought the Z-axis aim assistance (sticky aim), that made things actually work on a console, and defined gameplay templates that you see in almost every console shooter by standard now. Sticky aim? Halo. Regenerative health? Halo. Grenade button? Halo. Two weapon inventory? Halo. Vehicular controls? Halo. Fucking online matchmaking? Halo. Etc. Halo's influence on the FPS genre is ridiculous and plainly visible in nearly everything since... list GoldenEye's, and cite what still uses them (or ever even did back then). Whilst much of what Rare did with GoldenEye and Perfect Dark were great ideas (such as difficulties changing objectives), they aren't things that have been very influential on other games at all. I can't think of a single game outside of GoldenEye, Perfect Dark or Timeplitters that uses that aiming system for example... not even amongst games released in that time window.
 
You can prove sales. They are data.

'Cultural impact' is anecdote. It is not data.

Goldeneye sold 30% more copies and came out four years earlier.

It's pretty hard to fucking argue more people had contact with Halo 1 than Goldeneye when it sold more copies. Until the Wii it was the second most popular local multiplayer game of all time. The other was Mario Kart.

Well if it's a sales competition then I guess the list should correlate directly with the amount of sales each game got right? I mean, no game should be on there first if there is another game in the same genre that sold more than it that came before it right?

It's not hard to understand that something doesn't need to sell better than something else to reach more people or even to be more popular.

For instance. Besides the model T, what is the most influential or best car in the world off the top of your head? Now, is that also the best selling car in the world?

Without looking at sales, would you have been able to build that same list just by asking yourself or people around you the same question? Would you be able to add more to it (Just like the Video Game Hall Of Fame is doing) without knowing exactly how much the car that you are going to add sold?

There are some exclusive and very expensive cars like Roles Royce and Cadillac that have had huge impacts on us culturally and practically everyone knows about. Let alone Ferarri and such.

The same can be said of video games. There are some that are exclusives that have been hugely impactful like the last of us that are more influential than games that have sold much more.

This is why I said, sales aren't everything.

Sales aren't the only criteria they are judging the games on.

BTW, I'm not arguing that Goldeneye shouldn't be on the list. Just that I think Halo deserved it over it atm.
 

Mooreberg

Member
Leaving Resident Evil out is nuts. It generated almost as many competing products as Doom and SM64. You couldn't read an issue of PSM without seeing some game trying to mimic it.
 

Synth

Member
Well if it's a sales competition then I guess the list should correlate directly with the amount of sales each game got right? I mean, no game should be on there first if there is another game in the same genre that sold more than it that came before it right?

Yea, the sales argument for GoldenEye is dumb imo... so fine, you think Halo Combat Evolved shouldn't be in right now... instead it should be numerous COD games, multiple Battlefields, Destiny, Overwatch, Counter Strike, Doom 3, and about 3 other Halo games before GoldenEye.

In fact, the majority of those probably should be in before GoldenEye, if we consider how influential each is (or will end up being).
 

beinfilms

Member
Like pretty much everyone else, I'm a little offended that the "headliner" is (in my eyes) the least influential/important of the four. That said, sounds cool. I'll have to check the place out sometime, if I'm in the area.
 

D.Lo

Member
Well if it's a sales competition then I guess the list should correlate directly with the amount of sales each game got right? I mean, no game should be on there first if there is another game in the same genre that sold more than it that came before it right?

It's not hard to understand that something doesn't need to sell better than something else to reach more people or even to be more popular.

For instance. Besides the model T, what is the most influential or best car in the world off the top of your head? Now, is that also the best selling car in the world?

Without looking at sales, would you have been able to build that same list just by asking yourself or people around you the same question? Would you be able to add more to it (Just like the Video Game Hall Of Fame is doing) without knowing exactly how much the car that you are going to add sold?

There are some exclusive and very expensive cars like Roles Royce and Cadillac that have had huge impacts on us culturally and practically everyone knows about. Let alone Ferarri and such.

The same can be said of video games. There are some that are exclusives that have been hugely impactful like the last of us that are more influential than games that have sold much more.

This is why I said, sales aren't everything.

Sales aren't the only criteria they are judging the games on.

BTW, I'm not arguing that Goldeneye shouldn't be on the list. Just that I think Halo deserved it over it atm.
Yea, the sales argument for GoldenEye is dumb imo... so fine, you think Halo Combat Evolved shouldn't be in right now... instead it should be numerous COD games, multiple Battlefields, Destiny, Overwatch, Counter Strike, Doom 3, and about 3 other Halo games before GoldenEye.

In fact, the majority of those probably should be in before GoldenEye, if we consider how influential each is (or will end up being).
No. Their reasoning for adding it is literally right there. Because it was allegedly THE game that showed shooters could be successful on consoles.

Their reasoning is factually incorrect, another earlier game was more successful. You can't be the most successful at something when something from earlier was more successful.

Halo 2 could be included for being the first successful online shooter on consoles. But Halo 1 was at no point in history the most successful console shooter of all time.
 
Yea, the sales argument for GoldenEye is dumb imo... so fine, you think Halo Combat Evolved shouldn't be in right now... instead it should be numerous COD games, multiple Battlefields, Destiny, Overwatch, Counter Strike, Doom 3, and about 3 other Halo games before GoldenEye.

In fact, the majority of those probably should be in before GoldenEye, if we consider how influential each is (or will end up being).

I don't think that's what the sales argument is about.

The sales argument struck me as being against the blurb, which stated that the most successful shooters were all on the PC until Halo.

Which ignores the success of Goldeneye.
 

Novocaine

Member
Like pretty much everyone else, I'm a little offended that the "headliner" is (in my eyes) the least influential/important of the four. That said, sounds cool. I'll have to check the place out sometime, if I'm in the area.

You're offended?

Did you make Donkey Kong or something?
 
Their reasoning for adding it is literally right there. Because it was THE game that showed shooters could be successful on consoles.

Their reasoning is factually incorrect, another earlier game was more successful.

This is insanely reaching. Before Halo, consoles were considered casual and only PC gaming was considered hardcore and competitive. Not only did Halo completely revolutionize the industry (something Goldeneye did NOT do as much as I loved the game), but it changed console gaming. Combine this with Microsofts online infrastructure and mass market appeal (unlike PC gaming at the time) and it's no wonder it blew up the way it did, and modern gaming has lots to thank because of it.

I can't believe you're trying to compare Goldeneye 007 to Halo because it sold more copies (on a system with a much higher install base).

Like pretty much everyone else, I'm a little offended that the "headliner" is (in my eyes) the least influential/important of the four. That said, sounds cool. I'll have to check the place out sometime, if I'm in the area.

There is just as many people agreeing as "offended." And offended, seriously? I understand it is your opinion, but to say it is the least important and influential of the four says a whole lot about you. Not trying to antagonize, just saying. :p
 
I agree with all four choices, but I think they could do more than four per year. I'd do something along the lines of before 1983 gets four nominations, 1983-1994 gets four, 1995-2004 gets four, and 2005-present gets one per year. Also might want to have a single arcade and PC only per year.

That way you have the inception to crash era, the revival to end of sprites era, and early 3D era with a single "modern" game as well.

Do we really want to wait 30 years to have a top 100 in the HOF?
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Let's get down to the real issue:

Astronauts deserve a hall of fame. Games don't. People just need the ability to still play the good ones.
 

Synth

Member
I don't think that's what the sales argument is about.

The sales argument struck me as being against the blurb, which stated that the most successful shooters were all on the PC until Halo.

Which ignores the success of Goldeneye.

That kinda makes sense I guess. Though I would argue that Halo showed that it wasn't an anomaly, and that the genre itself could thrive on consoles. As I've said many times before, GoldenEye's successes were all strictly GoldenEye's really, and didn't carry onto the genre as a whole (not even to its sequels and spiritual successors). In isolation it almost looks like a WiiSports scenario where there's a spike of activity, before everything returns to business as usual. Halo didn't just make a success of itself, it showed how everyone else could be successful with the FPS genre on consoles. We're not talking about a singular game that could be as successful as those on PC... we're talking a catalyst to what effectively caused the genre to be more dominant on console than on PC, causing many prominent (and historically PC first) games to now be focused on the console market first and foremost. Stuff like Rainbow Six 3, followed by Rainbow Six Vegas... or Deus Ex Invisible War's infamous "consolization"... or Bioshock... not to even mention Call of Duty. FPS stopped being a PC genre as standard post Halo, whereas it didn't post GoldenEye. At that time, the most successful shooters were on PC, with GoldenEye being the lone exception. Post Halo, the most successful shooters were on consoles.

Yes I know the Astronaut Hall of Fame exists.

Honour games by playing them. That's my point.

Without ways to recognise some of gaming historical greats, people not born within their time wouldn't think to "honor" them by playing them.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
How did I know this thread would be full of people trying to act like Halo isn't one of the most influential and important titles of all time?

Love it or hate it, it belongs right up there with the other three inductees. You don't have to like a game or a song or an athlete to know they deserve recognition of this type. Push beyond your subjective tastes and look at the big picture once in a while.

I don't think that's what the sales argument is about.

The sales argument struck me as being against the blurb, which stated that the most successful shooters were all on the PC until Halo.

Which ignores the success of Goldeneye.

Goldeneye's success is not remotely on the same level as Halo's. Goldeneye was a really fun multiplayer game with a decent single player campaign that was popular in many a dorm in the mid '90s. Halo was a really fun multiplayer game with a memorable single player campaign that changed the medium and the industry forever.
 

atr0cious

Member
Sorry, but that's a stupid argument imo, and ties in perfectly with what I said before in regards to it being the Sonic Adventure of FPS games... as that's exactly the defense many Sonic Adventure advocates will fall back on to argue that the game's controls weren't disastrous compared to modern platformers. You have stuff like AGDQ demonstrating that people can be immensely proficient at literally any game in existence, so by this logic there's basically been no game made that isn't mechanically sound. The vast, vast majority of people that attempt to play GoldenEye - both back then and today - will be subjected to some of the worst firefights in multiplayer FPS history, as a result of it's unwieldy controls... I could pull down the first 10 GoldenEye deathmatch clips off YouTube right now, and be pretty confident that every last one would show awful gunplay... whereas I can imagine you'd struggle to find a single clip of anyone playing it with this deadly precision you're claiming your friend had.

Also, GoldenEye didn't do akimbo weapons first... both Marathon games (also by Bungie... look at that!!) had them before it, and mechanically dual-wielding didn't take the form as seen today, where each gun could actually be independently fired until I believe Halo 2 (correct me if I'm wrong). This is actually another situation where Halo's implementation has survived to the current day, whereas GoldenEye's hasn't.

Splitscreen multiplayer I can give it, although that was more a universal N64 standard (Duke Nukem 64 for example also contained split screen multiplayer modes - including campaign co-op - but neither the Saturn or PlayStation Duke Nukem 3D ports do). Force feedback is literally just a hardware occurrence... that's Starfox 64 if anything. Nothing FPS specific came out of that.

Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed playing GoldenEye back in the day (though we switched it out with Turok 2 and Quake 2 later, because both simply played better)... but you can look at games today, and see that for a variety of reasons, they've basically pretended GoldenEye didn't exist, and looked directly at Halo instead.

GoldenEye did very little to actually make FPS games work on a console in a serviceable manner, and pretty much no other games released after it gained any notable momentum as a result of the things it implemented. And this isn't just down to the lack of dual-analog as standard either. Sony had that covered back on the PS1, with Alien Resurrection first making use of them... but stuff like Quake 3 Arena, Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, Deus-Ex and the like all still played like shit with a joypad, even post GoldenEye (with none adopting anything from it mechanically).

Halo brought the Z-axis aim assistance (sticky aim), that made things actually work on a console, and defined gameplay templates that you see in almost every console shooter by standard now. Sticky aim? Halo. Regenerative health? Halo. Grenade button? Halo. Two weapon inventory? Halo. Vehicular controls? Halo. Fucking online matchmaking? Halo. Etc. Halo's influence on the FPS genre is ridiculous and plainly visible in nearly everything since... list GoldenEye's, and cite what still uses them (or ever even did back then). Whilst much of what Rare did with GoldenEye and Perfect Dark were great ideas (such as difficulties changing objectives), they aren't things that have been very influential on other games at all. I can't think of a single game outside of GoldenEye, Perfect Dark or Timeplitters that uses that aiming system for example... not even amongst games released in that time window.
Of course, everything I'm talking about is referring to the console space. It's almost like games/tech evolve. And you're talking about the controls as if you're the standard of what mechanics are good. Just like those saying RE/tomb raider tank controls are bad. Again, more people owned GoldenEye than Halo 1, if it was some trash experience like you are trying to paint it, then it wouldn't have taken off the way it did. A lot of words to try to act like GoldenEye isn't one of the most popular shooter properties of all time. Didn't even touch on the single player which makes Halo's look amateurish and copy/paste to a fault, and halo is more linear. You talk about controls,GoldenEye has aim assistance as well but obviously, dual analog changed everything, but that doesn't take away from Goldeneye. Especially as far as this Hall of fame's apparent criteria is concerned.
 

Mik2121

Member
Oh man... "video game scholars", “Until ‘Halo’s’ launch, the most successful shooters required a personal computer and the precision offered by a high-quality mouse,”... this is amazing.
 
Their reasoning for adding it is literally right there. Because it was THE game that showed shooters could be successful on consoles.

Their reasoning is factually incorrect, another earlier game was more successful.

From the article,

"Inductees were chosen based on their longevity and impact on the video game industry and pop culture. Nominations of arcade, computer, console, hand-held and mobile games came in from more than 100 countries, The Strong said."

Goldeneye was one of a kind at the time pioneering atmospheric single-player missions, stealth elements, and a console multiplayer deathmatch mode. But merely having tons of sales because people where curious doesn't mean that it was a sustainable successful shooter that could compete with the ones on PC where shooters where prevalent and taking over because of their much more fluid controls. It just means that it was new and different and it came to a platform that was starved of it's genre and features.

Did it create huge communities like Halo and other PC shooters did that lasted over the years and spawned tournaments and such that had actual high prize pools? Did it actually draw people away from the PC shooters of the time and keep them?

Did it help create organizations like the MLG? Did it spaw phrases like "Halo killer"? Do people quote sayings from the game like "killtacular!" or "RunningRiot!" or "DoubleKill!" etc?

Heck, Cortana is now even an AI digital assistant that we can talk to in our flipping computers!
 
I feel people are having difficulty disseminating the franchise from the game. Halo 2 fostered the online community, spawned MLG, and caused the term Halo killer. Halo 1 is just the origin point. There's very few notable shooters that take direct inspiration from Halo CE rather than the series as a whole. Halo CE is important as being the original flagpole of Xbox but that doesn't really qualify as one of the absolute most important. It's kind of like suggesting Call of duty 1-3 were critical to the state of gaming in the late 2000s to early 2010s
 

D.Lo

Member
Oh man... "video game scholars", “Until ‘Halo’s’ launch, the most successful shooters required a personal computer and the precision offered by a high-quality mouse,”... this is amazing.
It's pretty funny.

The promotional picture for their release is also head scratchingly of a Colecovision handheld of Donkey Kong, (not even the much better Nintendo handheld version), and a Japanese Mega Drive copy of Street Fighter II, a much less popular version than any arcade version or either SNES port.
 

Synth

Member
Of course, everything I'm talking about is referring to the console space. It's almost like games/tech evolve. And you're talking about the the controls as if you're the standard of what mechanics. Again, more people owned GoldenEye than Halo 1, if it was some trash experience like you are trying to paint it, then it wouldn't have taken off the way it did. A lot of words to try to act like GoldenEye isn't one of the most popular shooter properties of all time. Didn't even touch on the single player which makes Halo's look amateurish and copy/paste to a fault, and halo is more linear. You talk about controls, but obviously, dual analog changed everything, but that doesn't take away from Goldeneye. Especially as far as this Hall of fame's apparent criteria is concerned.

You'll have to forgive me for thinking that you were interested in innovation beyond just the console space. I was a little thrown off by your previous posts, where you're happy to state the following regarding Halo:

You're right, it's more Unreal Tournament.
Halo was good for bringing standardized LAN to consoles and dumbing down Tribes, but let's not act like it's some bastion of advanced mechanics.
Doesn't mean I don't recognize where bungie got inspiration from. Blood gulch looks like a straight up mini tribes map, with the hills and all. The sniper rifle is clearly UT inspired. Nothing wrong with that.

I'll keep in mind that as we switch back to GoldenEye, anything done prior on PC is a completely different matter.

I'm not talking as though I'M the standard for controls... the industry has quite clearly chosen the standard for controls. Again, other than GoldenEye, Perfect Dark and Timeplitters, what console FPS game uses Rare's control and aiming solution? If the game is supposed to be so influential, cite the games it's directly influencing... how hard can that be?

A trash experience can sell extremely well if other games available are even worse experiences (or in regards to multiplayer, there were simply none). As I said, GoldenEye was a stopgap solution for FPS on console, at a time were their was close to no solution. In a desert you can easily sell water to basically everyone that passes by... not such an easy sell if you set up in a city next to a lemonade and smoothie stand though. I'm well aware of GoldenEye's popularity, and I'm not underestimating it... on the other hand you are drastically overestimating its influence or importance.

I also did touch on the singleplayer (that bit about the difficulties affecting the objectives). I disagree that its better than Halo CEs though... and Halo is certainly not more linear... what the fuck?.... Halo CE's singleplayer is known for the freedom it gives you to approach pretty much every encounter, and the intelligent responses provided by you enemies. The main criticism levelled at more recent Halos has been the lack of that freedom by comparison.

And for the last time, what made Halo work isn't just the hardware arrival of dual-analog (unlike the nonsense force-feedback you tried to award GoldenEye with). Dual-analog was already there being used prior to Halo CE... the thing is, it was being used poorly until Halo designed a system around it that catered to its stregnths. Those systems are present in pretty much every console FPS since, through to this day. If it was a simple as just requiring dual-analog, then the games we play today would play like Timeplitters. but they don't.
 

mrlion

Member
lol what is up with the thread title. Halo and 3 more...

As if Pokemon, Donkey Kong, and SF2 weren't important. Cmon now.
 
You can prove sales. They are data.

'Cultural impact' is anecdote. It is not data.

Goldeneye sold 30% more copies and came out four years earlier.

It's pretty hard to fucking argue more people had contact with Halo 1 than Goldeneye when it sold more copies. Until the Wii it was the second most popular local multiplayer game of all time (not counting arcade games). The other was Mario Kart.

Eh, one could argue the sheer volume of modding, pirated games and all that on OG Xbox was waaaaay more than 30% sales. It was insane for the OG Xbox and Live. Seriously.

Goldeneye is the awesome shit no doubt but Halo LAN was a nose in front for esports developing and taking your console to a friends house etc.
 
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