-duskdoll-
Member
I liked Prometheus and i liked Covenant too. I guess i'm in the minority...
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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
Tony Redgrave
Member
Indeed.
Looking for some more information now that the movie has been out for some time, it seems like the Neomorphs resulted 'naturally' from fungi infected when David released the black goo or Xenovirus as screewriter Dante Harper calls it.
David took notice of these, who must have been born from infecting the remaining Engineers, and crossbreed them with an endoparasitic arthropod native from the Engineers' planet, which had also been infected by the goo and mutated.
So he basically made this mutated arthropod thing (the facehugger) able to implant other organisms with an stonger, more intelligent (or evolved) type of Neomorph.
The only real remaining mystery is where did the Xenovirus come from, did the Engineers create it or did they find it somewhere? Dante Harper says in the interview I linked above that they have indeed written about the Engineers' relationship with the virus but that info didn't make it into the movie. As for the Queen, it's entirely possible she will factor later in the story IMO.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Didn't the fetal creature Shaw birthed display the same parasitic xenomorph implanting technique as the anthropod David mutated. So that was a mechanism already in place within the black goo mutating creatures. David isn't even responsible for that. It was already coded within the goo to make creatures do that.
I love all the discussion this film is garnering, was the same with Prometheus. Ridley Scott has really created a cool and mysterious backstory to the franchise, which was the right move.
For more people it seems, Alien and Aliens were perfect for their repective genres, there is really nothing else to elaborate on, you can't make another without rehashing the same concept, so I'm glad Scott decided to try something completely different and refreshing, but as always, people will complain.
For more people it seems, Alien and Aliens were perfect for their repective genres, there is really nothing else to elaborate on, you can't make another without rehashing the same concept, so I'm glad Scott decided to try something completely different and refreshing, but as always, people will complain.
Saw it last night and pretty much loved it. I strongly disliked Prometheus and this movie made me appreciate Prometheus more as it laid some of the groundwork for this one. Michael Fassbender continues to be amazing in this.
I especially loved the homages to The Tempest and Mary Shelly's Frankenstein in this. A really great way to recognize the roots of the genre and the ties between the origin of science fiction and gothic horror. Actually, just the whole decision to mix gothic and cosmic horror was great. Although I suppose with the revelation that
the actual cosmic horror elements have been lessened a great deal. Of course that was also a major issue with Prometheus so I guess we can't be surprised to see this going the same way.
This movie also fails to close the loop with the original Alien. But where I was annoyed by Prometheus's continual fumbling which seemed like it was trying to lead directly into Alien and just couldn't get out of its own way long enough to do it, in Covenant there seemed to be a lot more confidence in the fact that this was simply building towards what will become first Alien movie, and there's no need to set things up directly.
I especially loved the homages to The Tempest and Mary Shelly's Frankenstein in this. A really great way to recognize the roots of the genre and the ties between the origin of science fiction and gothic horror. Actually, just the whole decision to mix gothic and cosmic horror was great. Although I suppose with the revelation that
David created the xenomorphs as we know them
I found the ending somewhat disappointing. Not surprising of course.
I knew David would be taking Walter's place as soon as we saw David cutting his hair.
When the cut on "Walter's" face didn't heal I knew for sure that it was David. But I liked Tenessee and Daniels and thought that they should have gotten a somewhat better ending than the fate that is certainly waiting for them now.
I knew David would be taking Walter's place as soon as we saw David cutting his hair.
When the cut on "Walter's" face didn't heal I knew for sure that it was David. But I liked Tenessee and Daniels and thought that they should have gotten a somewhat better ending than the fate that is certainly waiting for them now.
This movie also fails to close the loop with the original Alien. But where I was annoyed by Prometheus's continual fumbling which seemed like it was trying to lead directly into Alien and just couldn't get out of its own way long enough to do it, in Covenant there seemed to be a lot more confidence in the fact that this was simply building towards what will become first Alien movie, and there's no need to set things up directly.
To be fair to Daniels, I probably wouldn't have picked up on the switch immediately either if I was in that situation. You just fought off and killed two xenomorphs. You're probably tired as fuck and just want some sleep at that point. It would have been easy to just see the physical damage and roll with it. Not to mention David actually was helpful killing the xenomorph.
kopitarrulez_11
Member
Gonna be honest loved Danny McBride added a human element to the characters in my opinion
And I get that..I mentioned the carving above as well. My issue is I see a director who feels the universe 'got away' from him with Cameron's Aliens and now has stated he wants to keep this all for himself, to the extent that he had Blomkamps movie canceled. It completely ignores the fact that Dan O'Bannon and Ron Shushett created it, H.R Giger designed it with universe design assist from Chris Foss and James Cameron added popular elements of his own. Now Scott seems intent on making it completely his own vision adding non sensical element through out, even contradicting his own movies. The crashed ship is ancient. The carving is ancient. But forget that...It's only 20 years before. Now we can speculate on how we get through these hurdles and what Ridley has planned. My personal belief is it's nothing and he really doesn't give a fuck. He's making it up as he goes and doesn't care what's been established before, even in his own movies. He doesn't care about the universe just that he gets to control it from now on. He's stated as much in the links I posted above. It reeks of what George Lucas did with the Star Wars prequels. And is completely disrespectful to the others who had significant credit for creating this universe. I hope that should this flop 20th Century Fox reconsiders giving him this much control over their franchise. He's added nothing of value over two films so far. But no one else can play with it. Im awaiting the xenomorph that speaks with a Jamaican accent.I'm not sure David created the xenomorphs still. That black goop seem to take everything down the same vicious predatory evolutionary path and david had nothing to do with that as shown with the mutated worm, octopus face hugger and the creature that burst out the engineer. The evolutionary path is always the same more or less. Didn't the chamber in Prometheus also have a mural of an alien. No way the engineers didn't know what that stuff was capable of creating. All David was work with what was already in place he didn't create the xenomorphs
Yup, that's the Queen head on top, nice find.
I'm pretty sure Scott is less interested with the details of backstory of the xenomorphs came from and more interested in the concept of a creation of man becoming their own version of god. It's basically Prometheus 2 disguised as an Alien movie, for better or worse. The cool thing about it is that the Alien segments are still quite good, in my opinion. But the highlights, for me at least, are David.
The movie has a lot of meaty commentary on those themes. Very Frankenstein-like, in that way. David picked his name from David, the Michelangelo sculpture, because David (the sculpture) was seen for many ages as a perfect man in build and character. That's an interesting choice. The initial scene (albeit a little heavy handed) really set-up the major themes of the film with David fighting against humanity, almost out of spite. If you'll notice, Weyland asks him to display his cultured-ness by playing Wagner, identifying art, and answering human questions. Then, he asks for tea. He was created to serve man, after all. Acts of creation are out of his wheelhouse. As a machine, he is programmed to appreciate the achievements of man, but not create his own.
David is a character of aphorisms and axioms, living man-like the best he can by spouting phrases his ideal human would speak. "big things have small beginnings", "breathe on the nostrils of a horse and he'll be yours for life", "serve in heaven or reign in hell", etc, etc. He's like a greatest hits of human sayings. Because he's not human, he doesn't really know any better. Watching Prometheus again, he's obsessed with the movie Lawrence of Arabia. He is also interested in art and music. Everything he knows about humans are from these idealized characters and heroes. But the real humanity disappoints him, as does Weyland. Even Walter, later in the film. David teaches him to play the flute, which Walter is capable of doing handily, but Walter cannot really create their own piece of music, even though David wants him to. He's disappointed that humanity has reduced androids to service, removing the ambition and curiosity (two of David's primal attributes, I might add) to make something more able to serve man. So much so that David kills Walter, while mentioning how disappointed he is of him. If Prometheus is about David's curiosity, then Covenant is about his ambition.
Another interesting area is the bit where David quotes Ozymandias, albeit with the wrong appropriation, indicating it's Byron and not Shelly. Walter takes note, and corrects him later, saying "one wrong not can ruin a symphony" (which, I'd argue is a very David thing to say), to which David scoffs. Interestingly, this exchange comes after David explains how he finds humanity disappointing, and not worth the creations they have made. To which, Walter asks who composed Ozymandias, and instead of saying "a man" (which is what I'd imagine he was driving at), David says "Byron", which is wrong, and leads to the correction in the first place. Interesting, because all David's inspirations come from a species he hates; and even then, his culture has blind spots. He isn't really human, after all.
The xenomorphs are David's chance at creation. A peak biological entity greater than both the engineers (who ostensibly created the first version of the xenos) and the humans who created David. The end goal is David coming closer to perfection, and, I suppose, closer to a god. Although, he admits that his paradise is much closer to hell than heaven (the analogy from before, he indicates that "serving in heaven" would be serving humanity, while "reigning in hell" is ruling over the hellish life he helped create.
And, at the end of the film, David walks through the Covenant (note the incredibly biblical metaphor here), playing "Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla", feeling like a god, preparing to start his own version of the garden of Eden, creating his own covenant with his perfect creation.
The movie has a lot of meaty commentary on those themes. Very Frankenstein-like, in that way. David picked his name from David, the Michelangelo sculpture, because David (the sculpture) was seen for many ages as a perfect man in build and character. That's an interesting choice. The initial scene (albeit a little heavy handed) really set-up the major themes of the film with David fighting against humanity, almost out of spite. If you'll notice, Weyland asks him to display his cultured-ness by playing Wagner, identifying art, and answering human questions. Then, he asks for tea. He was created to serve man, after all. Acts of creation are out of his wheelhouse. As a machine, he is programmed to appreciate the achievements of man, but not create his own.
David is a character of aphorisms and axioms, living man-like the best he can by spouting phrases his ideal human would speak. "big things have small beginnings", "breathe on the nostrils of a horse and he'll be yours for life", "serve in heaven or reign in hell", etc, etc. He's like a greatest hits of human sayings. Because he's not human, he doesn't really know any better. Watching Prometheus again, he's obsessed with the movie Lawrence of Arabia. He is also interested in art and music. Everything he knows about humans are from these idealized characters and heroes. But the real humanity disappoints him, as does Weyland. Even Walter, later in the film. David teaches him to play the flute, which Walter is capable of doing handily, but Walter cannot really create their own piece of music, even though David wants him to. He's disappointed that humanity has reduced androids to service, removing the ambition and curiosity (two of David's primal attributes, I might add) to make something more able to serve man. So much so that David kills Walter, while mentioning how disappointed he is of him. If Prometheus is about David's curiosity, then Covenant is about his ambition.
Another interesting area is the bit where David quotes Ozymandias, albeit with the wrong appropriation, indicating it's Byron and not Shelly. Walter takes note, and corrects him later, saying "one wrong not can ruin a symphony" (which, I'd argue is a very David thing to say), to which David scoffs. Interestingly, this exchange comes after David explains how he finds humanity disappointing, and not worth the creations they have made. To which, Walter asks who composed Ozymandias, and instead of saying "a man" (which is what I'd imagine he was driving at), David says "Byron", which is wrong, and leads to the correction in the first place. Interesting, because all David's inspirations come from a species he hates; and even then, his culture has blind spots. He isn't really human, after all.
The xenomorphs are David's chance at creation. A peak biological entity greater than both the engineers (who ostensibly created the first version of the xenos) and the humans who created David. The end goal is David coming closer to perfection, and, I suppose, closer to a god. Although, he admits that his paradise is much closer to hell than heaven (the analogy from before, he indicates that "serving in heaven" would be serving humanity, while "reigning in hell" is ruling over the hellish life he helped create.
And, at the end of the film, David walks through the Covenant (note the incredibly biblical metaphor here), playing "Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla", feeling like a god, preparing to start his own version of the garden of Eden, creating his own covenant with his perfect creation.
I did too, though Prometheus more than Covenant
Imo there was more of an artist vision in Prometheus and they dialed up crew stupidity way too much in Covenant.
Most of the discussion is what the fuck was Ridley thinking, the lore couldn't be more messed up if he tried.
People are complaining because it wasn't a good movie full stop. Trying something different will only receive praise if the end product is good.
I wish this 'people will complain, just cause' argument would die. There's a reason the first 2 Terminators are loved and the rest are not, the Star Wars OT is loved and the PT is not, Alien and Aliens are loved, Prometheus and Covenant are not. Most people have standards and prefer movies to be entertaining, well made and to make sense.
Very nice post
Bobby Roberts
Banned
yeah but he did tho
edit: And yeah, Time put together a pretty decent argument for what Scott was going for in this movie, thematically, as it pertains to David's character and motivation.
Whether that actually got communicated well is another thing entirely, of course.
One Eyed Willy
Member
Saw it last night. Long time Alien/Aliens fan and I didn't enjoy Prometheus. I think in hindsight, I didn't like it back then because of expectations and how different it was plus all the nonsense. Rewatching Prometheus this week taught me that the nonsense is still all there, but I began to look at the film differently now that it would continue into Covenant. I guess I'm willing to imagine what it might be like in 10 years looking back at these films as a whole instead of comparing to directly to their roots from the 1970s and 1980s.
Anyways, I saw Covenant last night. Overall I feel like it was "ok". I honestly don't feel there is no reason for hyperbole on either end of the spectrum. It wasn't amazing and it wasn't terrible. I can appreciate people feeling compelled in the year 2017 to either love or hate soemthing.. thats the culture we've created after all. But thinking above a hyperbolic knee-jerk reaction.. the movie simply wasn't bad, it really wasn't. It wasn't great either, far from it. The script and story was tighter, the editing was better and the characters were a "bit" more believable. Someone might disagree, but they weren't scientists and some of the things about landing on the planet without space gear make no sense. They scanned the planet from a light space jump away and clarified was beyond inhabitable, even better than the one they were targeting originally.
Anyways, I don't want to get into the little things like that. My biggest gripes with the story isn't even that David created the xenomorphs etc.. Its the execution in how it was all done. The flim and David's arch or motives would have been VASTED better with more subtlety. The film hinted at David's intentions too early and too strong the entire way. The egg scene was a slow ramp so you knew what was going to happen, so there was no suspense just wasted opportunity. What would have been better is if David put that captain into choke hold and put him over the egg unwillingly as the facehugger leaped. Pan the camera back as the captain is squirming for life and you just see a grin on David's face. Instead we got this long drawn out scene were David leads a horse to water, and makes him drink it.
Other issues I had were with David taking over as Walter. The immediate moment they cut from showing if Walter killed David it was a over, dead in the water and obvious that David would assume Walter. They even push this stupidly by showing David/Walter's hand being chopped off. I'm sure this was so that Ridley could avoid fans complaining why didn't Daniels notice the hand not missing etc.. So this was a thing yes, but would have been better again... with subtlety. The David/Walter fight never should have been this choreographed jedi dual, but instead could have simply been a few punches, a ground struggle.
Overall the xenomorph wasn't terrifying, and its best on screen was the shower moment. That scene was probably in a story-board drawing long before the script was finished so they just found a way to get it into the film somehow. Regardless, it was a good romp. But the xeno the rest of the time was this long lanky thing that always seemed too never quite be fast enough, and humans always seemed to have the upper hand. So it was ok at best. The Neomorph was terrifying, and different. The loved the back and mouth burster scene and how the neomorph flops into birth.
I hated the xeno chest burst, where the shot shows the xeno looking up to David like it was his pet or something. Again, over done and subtlety would have prevailed again if we just knew David wanted to and later created them without having to be a crazy cat lady about it every 5 minutes.
Overall B- film, I enjoyed it despite it's flaws.
Anyways, I saw Covenant last night. Overall I feel like it was "ok". I honestly don't feel there is no reason for hyperbole on either end of the spectrum. It wasn't amazing and it wasn't terrible. I can appreciate people feeling compelled in the year 2017 to either love or hate soemthing.. thats the culture we've created after all. But thinking above a hyperbolic knee-jerk reaction.. the movie simply wasn't bad, it really wasn't. It wasn't great either, far from it. The script and story was tighter, the editing was better and the characters were a "bit" more believable. Someone might disagree, but they weren't scientists and some of the things about landing on the planet without space gear make no sense. They scanned the planet from a light space jump away and clarified was beyond inhabitable, even better than the one they were targeting originally.
Anyways, I don't want to get into the little things like that. My biggest gripes with the story isn't even that David created the xenomorphs etc.. Its the execution in how it was all done. The flim and David's arch or motives would have been VASTED better with more subtlety. The film hinted at David's intentions too early and too strong the entire way. The egg scene was a slow ramp so you knew what was going to happen, so there was no suspense just wasted opportunity. What would have been better is if David put that captain into choke hold and put him over the egg unwillingly as the facehugger leaped. Pan the camera back as the captain is squirming for life and you just see a grin on David's face. Instead we got this long drawn out scene were David leads a horse to water, and makes him drink it.
Other issues I had were with David taking over as Walter. The immediate moment they cut from showing if Walter killed David it was a over, dead in the water and obvious that David would assume Walter. They even push this stupidly by showing David/Walter's hand being chopped off. I'm sure this was so that Ridley could avoid fans complaining why didn't Daniels notice the hand not missing etc.. So this was a thing yes, but would have been better again... with subtlety. The David/Walter fight never should have been this choreographed jedi dual, but instead could have simply been a few punches, a ground struggle.
Overall the xenomorph wasn't terrifying, and its best on screen was the shower moment. That scene was probably in a story-board drawing long before the script was finished so they just found a way to get it into the film somehow. Regardless, it was a good romp. But the xeno the rest of the time was this long lanky thing that always seemed too never quite be fast enough, and humans always seemed to have the upper hand. So it was ok at best. The Neomorph was terrifying, and different. The loved the back and mouth burster scene and how the neomorph flops into birth.
I hated the xeno chest burst, where the shot shows the xeno looking up to David like it was his pet or something. Again, over done and subtlety would have prevailed again if we just knew David wanted to and later created them without having to be a crazy cat lady about it every 5 minutes.
Overall B- film, I enjoyed it despite it's flaws.
Warm Machine
Member
I'm not sure where this narrative that Ridley doesn't like Aliens came from. He has said on multiple occasions that it was a really good movie and it was a good direction. Ridley and Cameron know each other pretty well. Ridley has said of the sequels that he found it strange no one was ever wondering who the space jockey was or where he came from and that was the story he wanted to tell.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Not only that but there is a scene in Covenant that is a direct reference to Aliens. Its not even subtle.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
"Go into space, never return to civilization and die alone and unloved because everyone else is paired off." Is probably not going to get as many potential bites compared to "couples. Start a new life together, earn a living and gain property in this new colonization venture."
Nerd_Incognito
Member
Saw it Saturday night, and while I enjoyed it more than Prometheus, I think it still suffers from that film's overall premise of "why was this movie made?" The more I've thought about each film, the more confused and angry I get, as characters, motivations, and plot points make less and less sense.
Both films do nothing to enhance the mythos of the original. They only complicate and dilute things. The beauty of the original lies in the simplicity of its premise: there is alien life out there that is vastly superior to ours and is a direct threat to our existence. It is genuinely scary because it allows us to fear the unknown. Nothing more needs to be done with that. We don't need heavy-handed thought exercises about the nature of existence, creationism, Artificial Intelligence, and intelligent design.
It's difficult for me to say this is a good movie. It's certainly more entertaining than its predecessor, but by no means is it anywhere near as good as the first two films. With both of these movies I just wish Ridley hadn't been the primary decision maker. 42 year old Ridley was a much better storyteller than 79 year old Ridley.
Both films do nothing to enhance the mythos of the original. They only complicate and dilute things. The beauty of the original lies in the simplicity of its premise: there is alien life out there that is vastly superior to ours and is a direct threat to our existence. It is genuinely scary because it allows us to fear the unknown. Nothing more needs to be done with that. We don't need heavy-handed thought exercises about the nature of existence, creationism, Artificial Intelligence, and intelligent design.
It's difficult for me to say this is a good movie. It's certainly more entertaining than its predecessor, but by no means is it anywhere near as good as the first two films. With both of these movies I just wish Ridley hadn't been the primary decision maker. 42 year old Ridley was a much better storyteller than 79 year old Ridley.
Tony Redgrave
Member
Great post. "Entry of the Gods into Valhalla" was so perfect at the end and made the movie come full circle. Funny how he looked almost divine while entering the doors but montruous while regurgitating the egss, heavy handed but effective symbolism.
I thought it was an average film. The best part of it was the mythology/world building mixed with David's narrative, imo. Michael Fassbender was incredibly fun. Though I thought the chemistry of the cast was petty weak honestly, and the alien itself was stupid/unthreatening. Didn't like how they showed it from its own perspective/by itself. It felt like they were hunting a trapped animal instead of trying to escape and overcome its incredible wits. The crane arm catching it was the only truly dumb thing I remember seeing in the film. Kinda reminded me of the Austin Powers scene where the guy gets ran over by the truck.
It was basically the exact film I thought it would be from the trailers with the exception of a few really great moments.
Damn, great post
It was basically the exact film I thought it would be from the trailers with the exception of a few really great moments.
Damn, great post
Again though, every last member of the crew best qualified for such a monumental task were married to each other? Not one of them was like, "Oh, I better survive this for John, the bus boy I'm married to who's in the fridge in the back"?
ArkkAngel007
Member
Prometheus: David struggles with his and their creators
Covenant: David destroys his creators and creates life
X: David's creations evolve into their own and destroy David.
I still don't get the choice of the action figure Xenomorph over the chestburster, nor the implantation of the second host.
InvincibleFist
Member
Well I'm guessing Shaw was the first "queen," and the eggs were made by David through use of her reproductive organs in his experiments. Perhaps a more traditional xenomorph queen will be David's next major creation.
Garcia el Gringo
Member
Oh wow. I really like where Huante was going with this. I'd love to see more, if there's more. I'm really curious as to what was happening in the story board - who were those humans exploring Paradise? Was the woman Shaw? Blond dude that xeno-Cronenberged into the ground couldn't have been David. I'd be down for some "what if" extended universe comic following this Prometheus 2/Paradise. I wonder if the upcoming Covenant prequel novel will utilize some of these ideas too.
Huante's concepts for Prometheus are beautiful.
Huante Prometheus Concepts 1 2
Straight Edge
Member
The poor decision to use old age makeup on Pearce in Prometheus finally paid off!!!
Anyone else thinks the world in this movie is not the Engineers homeworld but rather just a colony? I mean from what we see it seems the Engineers only had one city built on this planet, which is just weird if this is really the Engineers homeworld. Considering the Engineers are a spacefaring species, I seriously doubt David killed them all.
One Eyed Willy
Member
Yes, no doubt. When the "engineers" see the ship arriving they all come to the center of the city as if they are worshiping or welcoming a superior version, creator etc.. Otherwise it would have just been space ship #40567. It wasn't, something or somebody they admired enough to meet as a species.
More engineers, better engineers out there.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, there's been more than a few people in the thread putting the notion forward.
But it's the homeworld.
Garcia el Gringo
Member
As others have pointed out, while the Elder Engineers were cut out of the intro of Prometheus, there's still that ship that tilts vertically and leaves the planet that's being seeded.
You don't even see Juggernauts, just the docking station. You don't see any of that tech in the city David bombs.
Might be a thread that Scott wants to drop regardless though.
ResidentWeevil13
Member
I'd say covenant falls apart once David shows up. People keep saying he's the best part of the movie, and maybe he is, but the story really unravels once he shows up.
Garcia el Gringo
Member
Wayne Haag just posted some Covenant concept art. Daniels' apartment is in there that didn't make it into the movie, and Haag calls that massive docking station the "Mother Juggernaut."
CartridgeBlower
Member
The story falls apart when David shows up because David IS the entire story in this set of films now, and frankly he's just not interesting/defined enough to build the entire Alien lore on his shoulders.
I think the decision to drop Shaw and focus on David also could have come from the studio, not just Ridley, as Fassbender was the 'hot' actor at the moment going into Assassins Creed and such. They probably thought he was becoming a huge star, and it made sense to double-down on him to then also carry this franchise.
That didn't work out in any way though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's similar to Alien 3 in a TON of ways.
bug-infested planet of bald people
Characters you care about from previous movie killed offscreen
Way too large cast with only a few discernable personalities
Animalistic xenomorph that runs around on all fours most of the time
ALIEN VISION
Locking doors to force Alien into trap.
Generally nihilistic tone/theme
A Serious Man
Member
It was alright. I thought the "all hell breaks loose" sequence was really fantastic but aside from that, the film isn't all that tense or frightening. It's a dark, violent space adventure and it kept me engaged but I expect more from an Alien film.
Also I'm all for retconning the Queen out of the series. Cameron's treatment of the Xenomorph is absolutely the worst part of Aliens and the main reason I'm not too hot that film. The Queen literally only exists to be a giant weak spot for Ridley to exploit. It's hardly the perfect organism if you can just kill one of them and effectively end the entire species.
Also I'm all for retconning the Queen out of the series. Cameron's treatment of the Xenomorph is absolutely the worst part of Aliens and the main reason I'm not too hot that film. The Queen literally only exists to be a giant weak spot for Ridley to exploit. It's hardly the perfect organism if you can just kill one of them and effectively end the entire species.
They needed to distill Prometheus to its kernel, so they trimmed all the fat with engineers and Shaw and left Dr Frankenstein so he could go about playing with xenomorphs enough to call the film Alien.
I enjoyed it well enough. The final bit is super dumb (though the David reveal was fun... despite how glaringly obvious it was), but I wasn't expecting the echoes of Prometheus to be the most interesting stuff in this movie. The main cast isn't nearly compelling enough but I enjoy David's quest to become a god in his own right.
The characters were almost universally total fucking idiots. It's justified in some instances, but in others, it was stupidity in the most basic slasher-movie sense for no other reason than to toss people into the meat grinder. The floating head in the water was cool though.
Eh... I can't say it was in any way a great Alien movie. But it sure as fuck is the third or fourth best movie in this franchise because outside of Alien or Aliens, you're in real fucking rocky territory.
The characters were almost universally total fucking idiots. It's justified in some instances, but in others, it was stupidity in the most basic slasher-movie sense for no other reason than to toss people into the meat grinder. The floating head in the water was cool though.
Eh... I can't say it was in any way a great Alien movie. But it sure as fuck is the third or fourth best movie in this franchise because outside of Alien or Aliens, you're in real fucking rocky territory.
phazedplasma
Member
Forgot how much I hated that
Garcia el Gringo
Member
Lots of concept art being posted today. Even more Carlos Huante's art of Prometheus 2/Paradise/Covenant/whatever.
http://www.carlos-huante-monstruo.com/ (warning, a browser crasher in my experience)
The different alien egg is interesting looking mechanically and the goblin shark looking monsters are horrifying. David's "pets" kill me. And this is how I imagined Paradise; lots of whimsical looking flora with a xeno twist.
http://www.carlos-huante-monstruo.com/ (warning, a browser crasher in my experience)
The different alien egg is interesting looking mechanically and the goblin shark looking monsters are horrifying. David's "pets" kill me. And this is how I imagined Paradise; lots of whimsical looking flora with a xeno twist.
Insane Metal
Member
Things I disliked about Covenant:
- Alien Vision
- Lil' alien wants a hug
Things I liked about Covenant:
- David and Walter
- David's twist at the end
- Photography was top notch
- The fact that this is in fact an Alien movie and not a "maybe" like Prometheus was
- The gore
Now I hope they explain in the next movie(s) how their movement detector works, since Ripley asked that dude in Aliens and he gave a lame ass excuse. This is obviously connected and Weyland Corp. knew about the Alien.
- Alien Vision
- Lil' alien wants a hug
Things I liked about Covenant:
- David and Walter
- David's twist at the end
- Photography was top notch
- The fact that this is in fact an Alien movie and not a "maybe" like Prometheus was
- The gore
Now I hope they explain in the next movie(s) how their movement detector works, since Ripley asked that dude in Aliens and he gave a lame ass excuse. This is obviously connected and Weyland Corp. knew about the Alien.
youbastards
Member
I'm trying to understand the differences of the various versions of the creatures in Covenant.
Neomorph - the ghostly white creatures with no facial definition. There are two of these creatures that appear to be the same, both created from the spores.
- Neomorph #1 (back-burster, created from spore landing in ear canal)
- Neomorph #2 (chestburster, created from inhaling spore)
Xenomorphs - It appears that there were two different versions of the Xenomorph
Version 1:
Larger than normal (?) egg created by David
-> Facehugger attaches to Covenant Captain
-> Larger than normal fully formed chestburster that mimics David when born.
-> Larger than normal (?) Xenomorph that Daniels crushes in cargo claw.
Version 2:
Facehugger embryo smuggled inside of David's body
-> Somehow implanted in Covenant crew member
-> Chestburster not shown onscreen
-> More traditionally sized Big Chap style Xenomorph that is launched out of the ship on the terraforming vehicle.
Diamond Select has revealed their previously redacted pictures of the Covenant Minimates line, and it does appear to show 2 different styles of black Xenomorph:
"Daniels and Goran Xenomorph" Goran D. Kleut is one of the actors credited with playing the Xeno on IMDB.
"Neomorph Teen with Neomorph Toddler"
"Xenomorph with Translucent Xenomorph"
Neomorph - the ghostly white creatures with no facial definition. There are two of these creatures that appear to be the same, both created from the spores.
- Neomorph #1 (back-burster, created from spore landing in ear canal)
- Neomorph #2 (chestburster, created from inhaling spore)
Xenomorphs - It appears that there were two different versions of the Xenomorph
Version 1:
Larger than normal (?) egg created by David
-> Facehugger attaches to Covenant Captain
-> Larger than normal fully formed chestburster that mimics David when born.
-> Larger than normal (?) Xenomorph that Daniels crushes in cargo claw.
Version 2:
Facehugger embryo smuggled inside of David's body
-> Somehow implanted in Covenant crew member
-> Chestburster not shown onscreen
-> More traditionally sized Big Chap style Xenomorph that is launched out of the ship on the terraforming vehicle.
Diamond Select has revealed their previously redacted pictures of the Covenant Minimates line, and it does appear to show 2 different styles of black Xenomorph:
"Daniels and Goran Xenomorph" Goran D. Kleut is one of the actors credited with playing the Xeno on IMDB.
"Neomorph Teen with Neomorph Toddler"
"Xenomorph with Translucent Xenomorph"
Oh right the POV Alien Vision, both attempts at that are sooooo bad
I actually think Alien 3 has the upper hand with its characters, but that might be due to the performances. The acting is great across the board, and Weaver's performance might be my favorite of hers in the series.
Not that Covenant doesn't also have solid actors, they just aren't given anything of note to say or do, aside from Bender
Garcia el Gringo
Member
Man, I wish the beast stayed cooked with these fucked up new creature concepts. They could've been so shocking onscreen, similar to how the original Xenomorph was once.
But all this concept art got me thinking about Giger art. David, please engineer something reminiscent of Giger's Alien Monster IV as a successor to the Big Chap.
And make it tasteful, Scott.
But all this concept art got me thinking about Giger art. David, please engineer something reminiscent of Giger's Alien Monster IV as a successor to the Big Chap.
And make it tasteful, Scott.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
If you had told me that a time would come when Alien 3 would appear to be a work of art based on what the franchise has become I would never believe you.... Look where we are now
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The eggs are pretty much the exact same size as seen in Alien/Aliens. The chestburster is weird, but as a fan wiki has pointed out, it's essentially the same as the one that pops out of the dog in Alien3, I guess. The full grown beastie is basically the same size as all the other variations from 79-97.
Version 2 isn't a separate version: The facehugger managed to impregnate Lope without securing a solid hold, apparently. It's again, more or less the same size as the one killed earlier in the film, and the ones that show up in the other films.
Finally Alien on a channel, was disappointed Friday there was nothing but Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem.
Re watching Alien knowing what happens in Covenant makes Ash actions seem all that more nefarious. How much did he exactly know. How much did Weyland know? Some? All? I like how they began sneaking androids into crews and no one knew, how many were out there. They couldn't have been all alike, someone would notice eventually.
That and when they did find the eggs in the ship there is that little black gunk on the egg as well. Never really noticed that before.
Re watching Alien knowing what happens in Covenant makes Ash actions seem all that more nefarious. How much did he exactly know. How much did Weyland know? Some? All? I like how they began sneaking androids into crews and no one knew, how many were out there. They couldn't have been all alike, someone would notice eventually.
That and when they did find the eggs in the ship there is that little black gunk on the egg as well. Never really noticed that before.
The movie was extremely predictable since David showed up, all the way past the "twist" which was way too foreshadowded. All in all, it made the creation of this alien much less interesting than it should be, and made me less interested in the franchise. So.. yeah feeling disappointed.
More_Badass
Member
Aside from the ridiculously nonchalant lack of helmets, I liked the first hour or so quite a bit, everything from the opening to David's rescue. The atmosphere of the planet, the stuff on the ship and the repairs, the new alien creatures, everything going to hell, was a lot of fun, well-paced, and gory as fuck.
But once David shows, the movie falls off a cliff. Everyone loses about half their brain cells and asks so stupid and nonsensical that it completely ruins any tension that movie could have had. David is so clearly suspicious, and yet people pretty much all just trust him besides Daniels. Oram trusting David and following him into the egg room after seeing him both interact with an alien that had just slaughtered their crew and then explode in anger after Oram kills it. People just going off on their own in an unknown alien temple like they're settling for a week rather than acting like they're waiting for rescue.
The "David is Walter" twist, I'm unsure if that's even supposed to be a twist because the movie makes it so obvious and shows us so many clues. David cutting his hair to match Walter. Not seeing how the fight ends. "Walter's" knowing glance back when he emerges from the temple. The hand being cut off rather than melted off. "Walter" trying to do his alien whisperer thing through the camera feed. It was a revelation for Daniels, but I don't think it was meant to be a twist for the audience.
But once David shows, the movie falls off a cliff. Everyone loses about half their brain cells and asks so stupid and nonsensical that it completely ruins any tension that movie could have had. David is so clearly suspicious, and yet people pretty much all just trust him besides Daniels. Oram trusting David and following him into the egg room after seeing him both interact with an alien that had just slaughtered their crew and then explode in anger after Oram kills it. People just going off on their own in an unknown alien temple like they're settling for a week rather than acting like they're waiting for rescue.
The "David is Walter" twist, I'm unsure if that's even supposed to be a twist because the movie makes it so obvious and shows us so many clues. David cutting his hair to match Walter. Not seeing how the fight ends. "Walter's" knowing glance back when he emerges from the temple. The hand being cut off rather than melted off. "Walter" trying to do his alien whisperer thing through the camera feed. It was a revelation for Daniels, but I don't think it was meant to be a twist for the audience.