CamHostage
Member
Oh, this interview has made me so depressed on a Monday. Good info, but if Housemarque isn't hot for the future, I don't want time to move forward ever again...
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Housemarque (Resogun) added PC due to console sale difficulties, talks future games
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
this is definitely happening. the free games with ps plus now makes people hold off on smaller cheaper indie games because they expect if they wait they can pay nothing for them.
we lost the middle market in the 360 and ps3 era and now the lower end price point is getting thinned out by giveaways, and now even the high end AAA price point has games being given away or tanked down to the lower end, kinda hard to compete as an indy against a 140 million dollar game being given away to try and ward off another AAA competitor.
MetalliCabombination
Member
Well last gen sucked for big games.
The majority of games i buy are indie games on console (PS4). In recent years, i have been wondering how a lot of indie developers can keep existing with interest and most probably sales being so low on some of these games.
I see various reasons why the market has changed a lot during recent years:
- the price point of most indie games is shifting from 10$/€ to 20$/€ or more. I'm prepared to pay that kind of money for good indie games but i have a feeling that a lot of people are not. Also, impulse buying games is not an option anymore at that price point.
- services like PS+ have influenced the perception that people have on indie games. It seems there is a certain perception amongst a lot of console owners that indie games are nothing more than shovelware that will eventually end up on PS+. I've read many times on Gaf how people will not buy an indie game because it will be free on PS+ "anyway" in a few months.
- the market is getting swamped with indie games which means lesser visibility and more choice for the customer. Only the very good or really popular games might end up getting noticed due to word of mouth more than publicity on stores. Lately, i have decided not to buy a few indie games that i really want because there is such a big supply of games and i have to make a choice. I will get them eventually though.
- on PS4, i have the impression that Sony isn't pushing indie games as much as they used to do (see also why they publish less and less of these games).
As for Housemarque in particular, i feel that they have been making a very similar type of game over and over and this type of game isn't as popular as it used to be. They branched out to another style of game only once with Outland and i feel it was by far their best game. So maybe it's time to ttry something different...?
Also, i hope that going pc will be a succes for them but i have a feeling that Steam is getting swamped by indie games aswell. So i'm wondering if they will manage to stand out on that platform. Though it has to be said that Steam prices are lower than console prices so customers might be more tempted to give it a go.
I see various reasons why the market has changed a lot during recent years:
- the price point of most indie games is shifting from 10$/€ to 20$/€ or more. I'm prepared to pay that kind of money for good indie games but i have a feeling that a lot of people are not. Also, impulse buying games is not an option anymore at that price point.
- services like PS+ have influenced the perception that people have on indie games. It seems there is a certain perception amongst a lot of console owners that indie games are nothing more than shovelware that will eventually end up on PS+. I've read many times on Gaf how people will not buy an indie game because it will be free on PS+ "anyway" in a few months.
- the market is getting swamped with indie games which means lesser visibility and more choice for the customer. Only the very good or really popular games might end up getting noticed due to word of mouth more than publicity on stores. Lately, i have decided not to buy a few indie games that i really want because there is such a big supply of games and i have to make a choice. I will get them eventually though.
- on PS4, i have the impression that Sony isn't pushing indie games as much as they used to do (see also why they publish less and less of these games).
As for Housemarque in particular, i feel that they have been making a very similar type of game over and over and this type of game isn't as popular as it used to be. They branched out to another style of game only once with Outland and i feel it was by far their best game. So maybe it's time to ttry something different...?
Also, i hope that going pc will be a succes for them but i have a feeling that Steam is getting swamped by indie games aswell. So i'm wondering if they will manage to stand out on that platform. Though it has to be said that Steam prices are lower than console prices so customers might be more tempted to give it a go.
I feel you on this. Even going PC+PS4, the future remains uncertain.
Which is the sad reality for many quality indie studios atm I feel regardless of the platform they release on.
On consoles though, that PS+/Gold game giveaways hamper initial sale/excitement knowing you can potentially get it for much cheaper down the line or free.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
I didn't like alienation. The base movement was too slow.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
I have a lotta respect for Housemarque and the work they do so let's hope this shift works out for them.
SinCityAssassin
Member
The aspect of portability is something indie games have desperately needed to stand out from the pack.
Wesley-Sigma
Member
They're one of the best devs out there and it was an awesome experience 'working' with them.
They will find success. There is too much passion at that studio.
They will find success. There is too much passion at that studio.
i'll buy this on steam thanks House. i'm not sure how well it will do though, seems like most big indie hits have some longform gameplay ie: rogues (spelunky, isaac, gungeon) or just tons of hours of play like a stardew. i think the ps plus argument definetely holds some weight on the playstation side, considering the context of almost all their games end up on the service.
I hope Nex Machina does well on PC for them, but honestly I'm not really sure it will, at a glance it looks like twin stick shooter with no real 'hook' outside of higher than usual production values. I'm not sure that's enough to get noticed.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Disheartening to hear to this state of affairs. Housemarque are a consistently great (and flexible) developer team, so I hope they can still stay in business for a long time without sacrificing the ability to create the kind of game they genuinely want to make. Nex Machina was going to be a day 1 purchase either way, even before reading this.
Depending on the genre you look at, there has in fact been a massive gulf in quality over the years regardless of price. Not discrediting the older examples here, but compare a Shadow Complex to a Hollow Knight / Ori and the Blind Forest, a Braid to The Witness or a Geometry Wars to Super Stardust HD / Resogun for example. Wonder Boy: A Dragon's Trap remake also elevated itself well beyond the level of what an average remake on XBLA / PSN back in the day looked like. Just off the top of my head.
Jawmuncher
Member
Not gonna lie that's me. Between paying for PS+, Xbox Gold, and Humble Mobthly. Sadly I have no real incentive to buy any indie games, due to the chance they may appear on one of those. The indie games I've actually bought this gen are hugely niche titles that won't even have a chance of such a release.
Regardless I will say that, unless you have a contractual obligation. You should still regardless try and put your games on as many platforms as possible. Though I know that can be an issue between porting costs and the console parity things.
2blackcats
Member
I bought it on release, played a few levels then went back to Hell Divers with a mind to return to it later. Never did though.
Resogun is God tier with Super Stardust not far behind, loved Outland too.
Think Alienation was not as amazing as it could have been and their release schedule is a little sparse.
I will continue to buy anything they release day 1 though.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
A beta for a multiplayer game isn't the same thing as a demo. Large scale multiplayer titles almost necessitate a beta to make sure the game isn't flat out broken at launch.
Graceful Explosion Machine has done really well on Switch according to the devs.
It's basically the Switch's Resogun.
Monty Mole
Member
I bought a ton of indie games last generation because of the XBLA compulsory trials. But this gen there are no demos and the prices are higher. It's too much of a risk for me.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
This is because as much shit as Microsoft gets, they had the digital marketplace for smaller games nailed.
Mandatory demos for all arcade games, fairly decent curation and great promotions like Summer of arcade.
Mandatory demos for all arcade games, fairly decent curation and great promotions like Summer of arcade.
I liked Resogun a lot, but was disappointed with the DLC and never bought any of it. It seemed geared only to hardcore fans so I never bought any of it.
PC game "marketing" is basically putting it out there for youtubers / twitch to do the footwork and really show it off, with each user seemingly having their own outlets they like to watch. Then there is the word of mouth etc, trailers / ARGs / other little puzzles that are entirely online / social media driven. But indeed, most of it has a minuscule budget comparatively to the "AAA" or console marketing driven indies.
Largely though, the PC audience is overly diverse and there are more and more "indie" developers chasing very specific niches that in themselves tend to expand through the success of titles over time leading to all the odd kind of trends we keep seeing for different types of games that folks tend to flock around and move from / stick to.
Pretty awesome time to be interested in all these niches and "indie" games. By far these continue to be the biggest portion of what I play. More so, the genres I play have massively changed over the past 3 or 4 years specifically due to this wealth of interesting and unique games. They couldn't be further from the monotony of "AAA" gaming right now
Magic Mushroom
Member
This is true. Hollow Knight for example is fantastic but lots of outlets didn't review it.
Magic Mushroom
Member
DLC was fantastic, especially Commando.
I wonder if the accessibility of their games is part of the sales downturn they seem to be experiencing. Superficially, the likes of Resogun, Stardust and Alienation are all easy to pick up and play but really making progress in those games puts emphasis on leaderboard attacks, which take no small amount of effort and time that more casual players probably can't justify.
So by now Housemarque has a established a reputation for tight, relentless twin-stick shooters that will demand hours upon hours from you to dominate the leaderboards. I could see that becoming a double-edged sword for sales. They've established a niche for themselves, grown it modestly, but now there's some natural contraction from more casual fans who just don't have the time to really commit to these games.
So by now Housemarque has a established a reputation for tight, relentless twin-stick shooters that will demand hours upon hours from you to dominate the leaderboards. I could see that becoming a double-edged sword for sales. They've established a niche for themselves, grown it modestly, but now there's some natural contraction from more casual fans who just don't have the time to really commit to these games.
Unknown?
Member
Yes, that's my point. They had some big hits but as a whole just frowned upon and no where near the size they are today.
I think this might have more to do with the fart-in-the-wind reception of Alienation more than anything else. I won't deny I felt pretty burned with a top-down Destiny clone when I was expecting Dead Nation with aliens.
Regardless, more people playing HM games is always a good thing. They deserve more fans
Regardless, more people playing HM games is always a good thing. They deserve more fans
What they actually had is a much much smaller selection.
That's not hard to "nail", but it's also not really what most people want.
Sure, promotions are nice and all, and so are demos, but the real differentiator is the far larger selection. And there's no simple "solution" for that.
Unreal Champ
Banned
I personally think not having demos have hurt indies more. I for one haven't bought many indie games this gen due to no demo, because I'm not willing to take the chance. Even if the game is getting good reviews, I would rather try it out myself before I buy it.
I would buy their games if they were released on the Xbox One like Alienation and Nex Machina
LordRaptor
Member
They also obfuscated pricing behind moonbucks so people didn't go "1200 points??? what a rip off!" as much
Chronospherics
Member
Well, to be fair I don't think it has a heck of a lot to do with consoles. I think Resogun performed very well.
Dead Nation was a port of a PS3 game, and it's not a great game. Neither is Alienation.
Neither Alienation or Dead Nation come close to matching the critical reception of Resogun, or Stardust, so why would they anticipate them to perform the similarly? Both are sub 80% on metacritic, which doesn't make them bad games, but it means there are 100+ digital titles better than them - some of which direct competitors (e.g. Geometry Wars 3, Jamestown+).
Releasing on PC won't make a difference when the issue is that they are struggling to deliver high quality titles. The rpg-lite systems that they've been working on through Dead Nation and Alienation haven't payed off because they entail a considerable amount of additional work, and they have little to show for it as the games were no better received.
Expanding onto new platforms isn't going to solve this issue, they need to work towards making better games. Significantly, look at what went wrong in both Alienation and Dead Nation. Why weren't they as popular as the rest of their titles? Critics found the experience dull and less exciting than Resogun or Stardust. The RPG systems hope to extend the games lifespan for many more hours, but neither Alienation or Dead Nation feature gameplay that's significantly more in-depth than Resogun or Stardust. This is a problem because they have tried to extend a gameplay loop that may keep the player entertained for 20 minutes in Resogun (the length of an arcade run) to a 10hour campaign in Alienation.
It doesn't work, people get bored, and launching on PC isn't going to remedy the issues that the studios recent games have had with the quality of their games.
Dead Nation was a port of a PS3 game, and it's not a great game. Neither is Alienation.
Neither Alienation or Dead Nation come close to matching the critical reception of Resogun, or Stardust, so why would they anticipate them to perform the similarly? Both are sub 80% on metacritic, which doesn't make them bad games, but it means there are 100+ digital titles better than them - some of which direct competitors (e.g. Geometry Wars 3, Jamestown+).
Releasing on PC won't make a difference when the issue is that they are struggling to deliver high quality titles. The rpg-lite systems that they've been working on through Dead Nation and Alienation haven't payed off because they entail a considerable amount of additional work, and they have little to show for it as the games were no better received.
Expanding onto new platforms isn't going to solve this issue, they need to work towards making better games. Significantly, look at what went wrong in both Alienation and Dead Nation. Why weren't they as popular as the rest of their titles? Critics found the experience dull and less exciting than Resogun or Stardust. The RPG systems hope to extend the games lifespan for many more hours, but neither Alienation or Dead Nation feature gameplay that's significantly more in-depth than Resogun or Stardust. This is a problem because they have tried to extend a gameplay loop that may keep the player entertained for 20 minutes in Resogun (the length of an arcade run) to a 10hour campaign in Alienation.
It doesn't work, people get bored, and launching on PC isn't going to remedy the issues that the studios recent games have had with the quality of their games.
Games not selling well have nothing to do with their quality.
foolishoptimist
Member
I've really enjoyed all their games on PlayStation. But I wonder if going free on PS+ hurt their overall sales.
Expanding their potential audience should be good for them though.
Expanding their potential audience should be good for them though.
LukasTaves
Member
I'm not saying it's hurting, hence the quotation marks on problem, I merely pointed out that more competition means individually the chances of being a hit are smaller.
Indie developers are flourishing on consoles too, but we don't have the big hits that used to have, perhaps one mega hit like rocket League.
martincrimson87
Banned
but but, I thought 99.999999989% of pc gamers were pirates while console gamers buy all their games at full price, exclusives most of all.
IcyRhythms
Member
And even then, in some cases you could argue that publisher/developers are leaving money on the table.
Thank you for saving me the time to type that. Outland was also published by Ubi I believe on consoles when it released.
There are only so many times that I can play Super Stardust and Dead Nation. I love me some indie shooters, but Housemarque's typical genre has gotten kinda old to me. Resogun, SSD and DN were great, but I wasn't excited for Alienation at all when I saw what kind of game it was(as expected). Resogun solely carried early PS4 hype as that was the only exclusive that anyone gave a shit about until inFamous came out(yes I know CoD Ghosts, Madden blah blah).
Oh please. Leave the unnecessary platform wars out of this.
LiquidSolid
Member
I too reminisce fondly about the good old days when we'd only get a couple of indie games a week and indie devs would have to jump through numerous hoops for Microsoft to deem them worthy to release their game on XBLA. /s
Rubbish. Their policies had been outdated for years before they were finally forced to drop them.
Anyway, I'd argue that Rocket League's in a class of its own and is FAR bigger than the Journey's or Braid's were last gen. Those two games I'd put more in line with games like Firewatch, The Witness, Abzu, Inside, Soma, Thumper and so on, which were all pretty popular games. So I can't really say I understand the argument that there's no big success stories on consoles.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
ps4 comrades, im disappointed in you. whatever keeps them afloat pumping awesome games.
in the meantime ill keep buying everything they throw with season passes
in the meantime ill keep buying everything they throw with season passes
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Well, the PS3 digital library was almost identical and yet games didn't see as many sales there. No mandatory demos and no real promotions.
So it wasn't just a library size thing.
pretty done
Member
No chance RESOGUN comes to PC right? That was their only game that I actually loved. I'm all out of trophies to get in it so I'd buy it again on PC.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Well yah, they should have diversity their games instead of putting all their eggs into 1 basket.
True, look at the threads with the PS+ game announcements. Almost all are "omg another indie game" shitposts.