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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS

The part in David's spooky lair is like the best part of the movie imo. Not only do you get double the Fass, but it feels right out of a gothic horror film from the 50's. There's dumb stuff on the part of the humans, but it's all pretty entertaining (mostly due to Fassbender).
 
Finally Alien on a channel, was disappointed Friday there was nothing but Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem.

Re watching Alien knowing what happens in Covenant makes Ash actions seem all that more nefarious. How much did he exactly know. How much did Weyland know? Some? All?
I would think they at least know that David created the xenomorph.
It definitely makes a lot more sense to why Weyland-Yutani would want to keep everything under wraps in Alien and Aliens, they are mostly responsible for the whole thing, would be the biggest scandal in human history if it was mainstream knowledge.

Idunno, I know it's the cool thing to hate on this movie but I kinda like this new angle of the company desperately trying to cover up this huge David problem, It totally explains the shady behavior in the original movies, they are trying to cover their asses by any means possible.
 
The facehugger managed to impregnate Lope without securing a solid hold, apparently.

Thanks, I completely missed this detail by being distracted by Not-Walter, so when the Alien shows up out of the blue on the ship, I just assumed it was somehow due to more David experimentation on the crew.
 
Why is everyone going on about no helmets when that's been a thing in this franchise since Aliens? They probably scanned the atmoshpere before landing.
 

denx

Member
I would think they at least know that David created the xenomorph.
It definitely makes a lot more sense to why Weyland-Yutani would want to keep everything under wraps in Alien and Aliens, they are mostly responsible for the whole thing, would be the biggest scandal in human history if it was mainstream knowledge.

Idunno, I know it's the cool thing to hate on this movie but I kinda like this new angle of the company desperately trying to cover up this huge David problem, It totally explains the shady behavior in the original movies, they are trying to cover their asses by any means possible.

Agree with this. It definitely gives more justification for the Company's endless obsession with the aliens besides them being mad scientists.
 

Timeaisis

Member
I also think it's very funny David didn't know who Percy Bysshe Shelley was, considering the Frankenstein analogy.

And I agree, the gothic lair was the best part of the movie. That, and the "break containment" sequence.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Why is everyone going on about no helmets when that's been a thing in this franchise since Aliens? They probably scanned the atmoshpere before landing.
Lol They did exactly this.

This movie has bigger issues then that. But I'm pretty sure at this point it's all circular.
 

raindoc

Member
I would think they at least know that David created the xenomorph.
It definitely makes a lot more sense to why Weyland-Yutani would want to keep everything under wraps in Alien and Aliens, they are mostly responsible for the whole thing, would be the biggest scandal in human history if it was mainstream knowledge.

Idunno, I know it's the cool thing to hate on this movie but I kinda like this new angle of the company desperately trying to cover up this huge David problem, It totally explains the shady behavior in the original movies, they are trying to cover their asses by any means possible.
except they're not trying to cover it up, but get their hands on the xenos to use/sell them as weapons?
 
Lol They did exactly this.

This movie has bigger issues then that. But I'm pretty sure at this point it's all circular.
True, but not wearing helmets isn't usually the primary reason why things go to hell in movies, so it doesn't seem like a big deal. But here, not wearing a helmet would have prevented so much stuff from happening, that it felt like a glaringly stupid decision in the context of this movie
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
yeah but he did tho

edit: And yeah, Time put together a pretty decent argument for what Scott was going for in this movie, thematically, as it pertains to David's character and motivation.

Whether that actually got communicated well is another thing entirely, of course.

Saying David created the xenomorph is like saying someone created dogs because they selectively bred some until they looked like German Shephards. All David did was test the stuff on as many species as he could get his hands on. The black goo takes things down the same evolutionary path more or less regardless of what it mutates. Acid blood, implanting parasites within a host, highly aggressive, elongated head and all similar body structure none of those things are something David added so what did he really bring to the table.
 
Saying David created the xenomorph is like saying someone created dogs because they selectively bred some until they looked like German Shephards.

No, saying david created the xenomorph is saying david created the xenomorph

because we watch him create it in this movie as he tells us about his chain of experiments on the way to creating it.

(this particular contention has already happened in the thread once)
 

Jinroh

Member
Why is everyone going on about no helmets when that's been a thing in this franchise since Aliens?
What? LV-426 was being terraformed, already had a colony and no apparent vegetation. Two entirely different situations.

The first time it happened was in Prometheus, and it was one of the most stupid aspect of the movie. Scott double down on it.
 

Time the poster (Timeaisis) not Time the magazine. Sorry.

What? LV-426 was being terraformed, already had a colony and no apparent vegetation. Two entirely different situations.

And this planet is already terraformed and appears to have people on it.

Difference being the Covenant doesn't know there's an alien infestation awaiting them, whereas the Marines are going into a hostile situation they KNOW is hostile based on incomplete information from the single survivor of the last known contact with this shit.

So if everyone involved knows they're heading into a situation where all humanity present is now dead, and they're not sure HOW it happened, why would you send them into that without preparing them for the possibility the killing method includes some sort of airborne toxin or gas attack?
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
No, saying david created the xenomorph is saying david created the xenomorph

because we watch him create it in this movie as he tells us about his chain of experiments on the way to creating it.

(this particular contention has already happened in the thread once)

What did David add that wasn't already displayed in other things mutated by the black goo? What makes what David created any different from the thing that came out of Shaw that attached and implanted that engineer with a life form busrtings out its body. That goo virus was designed to implement those traits into its mutations from the very beginning. We see a mural of a similar creature in Prometheus. Someone had to have engineered that goo to produce those traits its not random. Neomorph, Deacon, Xenomorph are all the same creature resultant only difference is the host dna that was mutated. So what did David bring to the table in regards to the traits produced by that goo that wasn't already there?
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Time the poster (Timeaisis) not Time the magazine. Sorry.
Great post. I missed this earlier.

Re-quoting for new page.
I'm pretty sure Scott is less interested with the details of backstory of the xenomorphs came from and more interested in the concept of a creation of man becoming their own version of god. It's basically Prometheus 2 disguised as an Alien movie, for better or worse. The cool thing about it is that the Alien segments are still quite good, in my opinion. But the highlights, for me at least, are David.

The movie has a lot of meaty commentary on those themes. Very Frankenstein-like, in that way. David picked his name from David, the Michelangelo sculpture, because David (the sculpture) was seen for many ages as a perfect man in build and character. That's an interesting choice. The initial scene (albeit a little heavy handed) really set-up the major themes of the film with David fighting against humanity, almost out of spite. If you'll notice, Weyland asks him to display his cultured-ness by playing Wagner, identifying art, and answering human questions. Then, he asks for tea. He was created to serve man, after all. Acts of creation are out of his wheelhouse. As a machine, he is programmed to appreciate the achievements of man, but not create his own.

David is a character of aphorisms and axioms, living man-like the best he can by spouting phrases his ideal human would speak. "big things have small beginnings", "breathe on the nostrils of a horse and he'll be yours for life", "serve in heaven or reign in hell", etc, etc. He's like a greatest hits of human sayings. Because he's not human, he doesn't really know any better. Watching Prometheus again, he's obsessed with the movie Lawrence of Arabia. He is also interested in art and music. Everything he knows about humans are from these idealized characters and heroes. But the real humanity disappoints him, as does Weyland. Even Walter, later in the film. David teaches him to play the flute, which Walter is capable of doing handily, but Walter cannot really create their own piece of music, even though David wants him to. He's disappointed that humanity has reduced androids to service, removing the ambition and curiosity (two of David's primal attributes, I might add) to make something more able to serve man. So much so that David kills Walter, while mentioning how disappointed he is of him. If Prometheus is about David's curiosity, then Covenant is about his ambition.

Another interesting area is the bit where David quotes Ozymandias, albeit with the wrong appropriation, indicating it's Byron and not Shelly. Walter takes note, and corrects him later, saying "one wrong not can ruin a symphony" (which, I'd argue is a very David thing to say), to which David scoffs. Interestingly, this exchange comes after David explains how he finds humanity disappointing, and not worth the creations they have made. To which, Walter asks who composed Ozymandias, and instead of saying "a man" (which is what I'd imagine he was driving at), David says "Byron", which is wrong, and leads to the correction in the first place. Interesting, because all David's inspirations come from a species he hates; and even then, his culture has blind spots. He isn't really human, after all.

The xenomorphs are David's chance at creation. A peak biological entity greater than both the engineers (who ostensibly created the first version of the xenos) and the humans who created David. The end goal is David coming closer to perfection, and, I suppose, closer to a god. Although, he admits that his paradise is much closer to hell than heaven (the analogy from before, he indicates that "serving in heaven" would be serving humanity, while "reigning in hell" is ruling over the hellish life he helped create.

And, at the end of the film, David walks through the Covenant (note the incredibly biblical metaphor here), playing "Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla", feeling like a god, preparing to start his own version of the garden of Eden, creating his own covenant with his perfect creation.
 
What did David add that wasn't already displayed in other things mutated by the black goo?

Did you click that link I just provided? It's almost the exact same argument you're trying to use as the other guy did: That the possibility someone somewhere could have landed on the same thing based on the basic "language" being used to create with thus nullifies the actual creation being discussed.

But it doesn't.

Yes, David is using scientific ingredients that were provided to him. But he is not following a recipe. He's making his own thing with those tools. Just like a composer has the same set of notes as any other composer, or a writer has the same concepts/words as anyone else.

That doesn't mean their creation isn't THEIRS. Beethoven's 5th is still Beethoven's 5th even if you can argue someone somewhere else might have come up with a similar symphony in the same key. The Count of Monte Cristo is still Dumas' book even if you can successfully argue there's an alternate universe somewhere featuring a book called "The King of Subway Clubs" by Tim Sandwich that is primarily the same revenge story.

You watched David create the egg, the facehugger, and in doing so, the xenomorph. It was made very obvious by the film itself, and even if you want to go outside the text of the film, the director has already said David is its creator.
 
And this planet is already terraformed and appears to have people on it
Not exactly. They knew it was an exoplanet with a habitable atmosphere; they never said it was terraformed or knew it had people on it. They only knew there was earth crops on the planet after they left and started exploring, and only knew that a signal was being sent out, not that there were survivors or people there. It wasn't even a distress signal or message.

To be fair, "the air is breathable = no helmets are fine" is a common sci-fi thing, and stuff like microbes or parasites is never touched upon. But here it is, so that common aspect suddenly seems really stupid
 
Not exactly. They knew it was an exoplanet with a habitable atmosphere; they never said it was terraformed or knew it had people on it. They only knew there was earth crops on the planet after they left and started exploring, and only knew that a signal was being sent out, not that there were survivors or people there. It wasn't even a distress signal or message.

To be fair, "the air is breathable = no helmets are fine" is a common sci-fi thing, and stuff like microbes or parasites is never touched upon. But here it is, so that common aspect suddenly seems really stupid

Good point, and my mistake. Although the characters seemed to be under the impression whoever was singing was still there, I thought?

But yeah: "Air breathable = fuck the helmets" is not just the SOP for a lot of sci-fi films, but is the SOP for the Alien series. And not just Prometheus. But your'e right in that then saying "WELL, NOW YOU'RE FUCKED BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WEAR A HELMET" is being... unfair in your storytelling, I guess.

edit: Dan explained it better below.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
True, but not wearing helmets isn't usually the primary reason why things go to hell in movies, so it doesn't seem like a big deal. But here, not wearing a helmet would have prevented so much stuff from happening, that it felt like a glaringly stupid decision in the context of this movie
I don't think this point can be understated. It's one thing to buy into the stretched movie logic that often requires characters to remove their helmets, it's a whole different beast when the movie then utilizes that fact to put the characters in danger. That's having its cake and eating it, too. You can't try to have the characters and the audience whiz by fairly glaring environmental concerns and then actively invoke those very concerns as major plot points. The latter immediately betrays the former.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
Did you click that link I just provided? It's almost the exact same argument you're trying to use as the other guy did: That the possibility someone somewhere could have landed on the same thing based on the basic "language" being used to create with thus nullifies the actual creation being discussed.

But it doesn't.

Yes, David is using scientific ingredients that were provided to him. But he is not following a recipe. He's making his own thing with those tools. Just like a composer has the same set of notes as any other composer, or a writer has the same concepts/words as anyone else.

That doesn't mean their creation isn't THEIRS. Beethoven's 5th is still Beethoven's 5th even if you can argue someone somewhere else might have come up with a similar symphony in the same key. The Count of Monte Cristo is still Dumas' book even if you can successfully argue there's an alternate universe somewhere featuring a book called "The King of Subway Clubs" by Tim Sandwich that is primarily the same revenge story.

You watched David create the egg, the facehugger, and in doing so, the xenomorph. It was made very obvious by the film itself, and even if you want to go outside the text of the film, the director has already said David is its creator.

I guess I'm more concerned with why the goo makes creatures go down that path by design. I see no distinction between the creatures that result like I consider both a chow chow and a golden retriever both dogs even though they are different. To use your example of Beethoven I'm not interested in David's symphony as much as I am in who created music in the first place.
 
Why is everyone going on about no helmets when that's been a thing in this franchise since Aliens? They probably scanned the atmoshpere before landing.

It's a non issue. In Covenant there is an entire scene where the crew is scanning Planet 4 for habitation and its so far off the scale it's better than their original target planet that they spent 10 years researching.

The only reason people are talking about it was because this was a thing from Prometheus so its a knee-jerk comment. In that movie you had scientists on a mission landing on an uncharted, new world with helmets on, who for no real reason just take them off.. well... because.

Apples to oranges, and most people complaining aren't paying close enough attention is all.
 
It's a non issue. In Covenant there is an entire scene where the crew is scanning the planet for habitation and its so far off the scale it's better than their original target planet that they spent 10 years researching.

The only reason people are talking about it was because this was a thing from Prometheus so its a knee-jerk comment. In that movie you had scientists landing on an uncharted, new world with helmets, who for no real reason just take them off.. well... because.

Apples to oranges, and most people complaining aren't paying close enough attention is all.
Not even close. In Prometheus, they wear helmets anytime they're outside and only remove them inside the Engineer ship after they analyze the interior atmosphere. And even then, removing the helment is treated as reckless and crazy, and something only that particular character would do so brazenly

To dismiss the criticism here as a "knee jerk comment because of Prometheus" is ridiculous
 
To use your example of Beethoven I'm not interested in David's symphony as much as I am in who created music in the first place.

That's fine. A lot of people were interested in that coming out of Prometheus

But the story is about the creation of Beethoven's symphonies, not music itself, and you're trying to argue that Beethoven didn't write the 5th (or the 9th) and that's not supported by either film, really, much less their director.

David created the xenomorph. He invented the egg, and the facehugger. It was him.

To dismiss the criticism here as a "knee jerk comment because of Prometheus" is riduclous

I touched on this upthread, but I think the "knee-jerk" aspect is coming into play because Prometheus criticism essentially got memed to death, and so for a lot of people, "no helmet" automatically equals "stupid as fuck," so when they saw absence of helmet, it was automatic.

Granted, as Dan explained, what's stupid isn't that they landed without helmets, because the film actually sets up why they'd do that, and it's more or less consistent with the universe as presented in all the other movies (and most genre fiction), what's stupid is that the film then goes out of its way to subvert that rule as cheaply as possible to introduce new villains.

It's why nobody questioned the marines in Aliens going in without any gear: Because Cameron never went "HA! Gotcha!" and introduced some airborne toxin.
 

Guy.brush

Member
I'm pretty sure Scott is less interested with the details of backstory of the xenomorphs came from and more interested in the concept of a creation of man becoming their own version of god. It's basically Prometheus 2 disguised as an Alien movie, for better or worse. The cool thing about it is that the Alien segments are still quite good, in my opinion. But the highlights, for me at least, are David.

The movie has a lot of meaty commentary on those themes. Very Frankenstein-like, in that way. David picked his name from David, the Michelangelo sculpture, because David (the sculpture) was seen for many ages as a perfect man in build and character. That's an interesting choice. The initial scene (albeit a little heavy handed) really set-up the major themes of the film with David fighting against humanity, almost out of spite. If you'll notice, Weyland asks him to display his cultured-ness by playing Wagner, identifying art, and answering human questions. Then, he asks for tea. He was created to serve man, after all. Acts of creation are out of his wheelhouse. As a machine, he is programmed to appreciate the achievements of man, but not create his own.

David is a character of aphorisms and axioms, living man-like the best he can by spouting phrases his ideal human would speak. "big things have small beginnings", "breathe on the nostrils of a horse and he'll be yours for life", "serve in heaven or reign in hell", etc, etc. He's like a greatest hits of human sayings. Because he's not human, he doesn't really know any better. Watching Prometheus again, he's obsessed with the movie Lawrence of Arabia. He is also interested in art and music. Everything he knows about humans are from these idealized characters and heroes. But the real humanity disappoints him, as does Weyland. Even Walter, later in the film. David teaches him to play the flute, which Walter is capable of doing handily, but Walter cannot really create their own piece of music, even though David wants him to. He's disappointed that humanity has reduced androids to service, removing the ambition and curiosity (two of David's primal attributes, I might add) to make something more able to serve man. So much so that David kills Walter, while mentioning how disappointed he is of him. If Prometheus is about David's curiosity, then Covenant is about his ambition.

Another interesting area is the bit where David quotes Ozymandias, albeit with the wrong appropriation, indicating it's Byron and not Shelly. Walter takes note, and corrects him later, saying "one wrong not can ruin a symphony" (which, I'd argue is a very David thing to say), to which David scoffs. Interestingly, this exchange comes after David explains how he finds humanity disappointing, and not worth the creations they have made. To which, Walter asks who composed Ozymandias, and instead of saying "a man" (which is what I'd imagine he was driving at), David says "Byron", which is wrong, and leads to the correction in the first place. Interesting, because all David's inspirations come from a species he hates; and even then, his culture has blind spots. He isn't really human, after all.

The xenomorphs are David's chance at creation. A peak biological entity greater than both the engineers (who ostensibly created the first version of the xenos) and the humans who created David. The end goal is David coming closer to perfection, and, I suppose, closer to a god. Although, he admits that his paradise is much closer to hell than heaven (the analogy from before, he indicates that "serving in heaven" would be serving humanity, while "reigning in hell" is ruling over the hellish life he helped create.

And, at the end of the film, David walks through the Covenant (note the incredibly biblical metaphor here), playing "Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla", feeling like a god, preparing to start his own version of the garden of Eden, creating his own covenant with his perfect creation.

This is all true and part of why I kind of enjoyed the movie's themes on some level, but even in your post, you could easily exchange David's creation beind the facehugger eggs and then xenomorph with something completely different and all of his arc would still be intact and work. There is no reason it has to do something with the Alien universe and you would have a nice hard sci-fi movie that doesn't tear apart the established Alien lore.

There is some slight connection with Alien in that David doesn't have a mother and some scenes hint at him being curious about sex, but really this is all there is that connects it to the Alien thematically.
Personally I would have preferred Prometheus and this being films that are not part of the Alien universe and keeping the Alien as a cosmic horror that stays Alien.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
That's fine. A lot of people were interested in that coming out of Prometheus

But the story is about the creation of Beethoven's symphonies, not music itself, and you're trying to argue that Beethoven didn't write the 5th (or the 9th) and that's not supported by either film, really, much less their director.

David created the xenomorph. He invented the egg, and the facehugger. It was him.

You're right.
 
David created the xenomorph. He invented the egg, and the facehugger. It was him.
If one wanted to get technical, one could argue that he doesnt exactly create the xenomorph since this is a different species, as the chest-bursting life form/stage is completely different from the ones seen in the original Alien.
 
Watched it yesterday and I enjoyed it more than I did Prometheus, but ultimately i'm just "okay" about this movie.

I feel like Ridley should have just gone with this being a Prometheus 2 instead of an Alien film that featured shit from Prometheus. I think I might have enjoyed it more if all these films were leading up to the creation of the iconic xenomorph we see in the first Alien film.

Like, in another universe this movie would be called Prometheus: Covenant and the main monster would be the white neomorph being influenced by David. This movie could have had David observing his creation's kills and gestating ideas on how to make a better creature (the xenomorph that appears in Alien).

These are just my two cents tho.

Also the outfits the landing crew had on were rad as fuck.
 
It's a non issue. In Covenant there is an entire scene where the crew is scanning Planet 4 for habitation and its so far off the scale it's better than their original target planet that they spent 10 years researching.

The only reason people are talking about it was because this was a thing from Prometheus so its a knee-jerk comment. In that movie you had scientists on a mission landing on an uncharted, new world with helmets on, who for no real reason just take them off.. well... because.

Apples to oranges, and most people complaining aren't paying close enough attention is all.
It thematically made sense in Prometheus though. Shaw and Holloway were looking for God, and Holloway immediately assumed that the ship they found was exactly what they were looking for. He took his helmet off because he figured the scans said the air was breathable and God wouldn't poison them. It was a series of bad leaps of logic but it made sense for his character.

No one else wanted to do it until after he did. Then they all did it because he didn't combust or whatever.

That everyone follows suit is iffy and something you could complain about, but that Holloway takes his helmet off is, IMO, fine. He's the atheist with more faith in their trip than his religious wife, who did not take her helmet off right away.

I honestly think it's more of a problem in Alien: Covenant because they get poisoned via the air.
 

Carcetti

Member
It's a non issue. In Covenant there is an entire scene where the crew is scanning Planet 4 for habitation and its so far off the scale it's better than their original target planet that they spent 10 years researching.

The only reason people are talking about it was because this was a thing from Prometheus so its a knee-jerk comment. In that movie you had scientists on a mission landing on an uncharted, new world with helmets on, who for no real reason just take them off.. well... because.

Apples to oranges, and most people complaining aren't paying close enough attention is all.

Helmets were established as franchise thing in Alien, then again extremely visibly in Prometheus. They're living in a movie universe where the most dangerous things are a) alien parasites b) alien disease. Then they're killed by an alien disease in mere hours after landing to a new planet because they had no helmets. If you're willing to disregard the helmet issue it just means you're not interested in any sort of logic in the story, much like Scott.

The problem, though, is that Scott wants the two new movies be serious, respectable science fiction films. Nobody'd care about the helmets if this was Martian Babes on Hell Planet.
 
If one wanted to get technical, one could argue that he doesnt exactly create the xenomorph since this is a different species, as the chest-bursting life form/stage is completely different from the ones seen in the original Alien.

You could nitpick that, yeah, but there are more similarities than differences, and even in the original trilogy, there are differences/variations between all forms. (Chestburster has little arms in Aliens where it doesn't in Alien, the ones in Alien & Alien3 have smooth domes where Aliens doesn't, the chestburster in 3 is a mini-alien like the one in Covenant, etc.)

There's never really been an Alien in each movie that looks exactly like the ones in the other films, and they don't all act the same, either.
 
Again though, every last member of the crew best qualified for such a monumental task were married to each other? Not one of them was like, "Oh, I better survive this for John, the bus boy I'm married to who's in the fridge in the back"?

I mean, colonization and transforming are actually not that big of deal? It seems like it is pretty common. There are tons of space colonies. The only major difficulties are the fact that you're basically never coming back to earth and unforeseen consequences like the storm in this movie.

It certainly makes more sense than the entire crew of the Prometheus going on a deep space mission while all the mission and job details were deliberately withheld from them.
 

Fliesen

Member
I can and shall suspend my disbelief about the whole "no helmets" thing. sure. - Honestly, i rather have them not wear helmets to begin with than stupidly take them off.

I still disliked the 'person goes to wash up by herself'. 'Person accompanies creepy robot guy into the alien egg basement by himself'. 'Person takes a peek into alien eggs'.

I don't know how i should feel about the fact that the trailers made this movie feel a lot more like it'd be mostly taking place on the ship, when in fact, much of the action happened on the surface.
I was looking for 'confined space horror' - what we got was 'cabin on the alien planet, at night, during the rain.
(the whole "let me out!" moment from the trailers was a conscious move to make the movie seem more like spaceship horror, i feel)

I don't know if Ridley Scott once got molested by a robot or something, but it'd be refreshing not to have the Robot be the villain in the end.
Also, as soon as Simon cut his (beautiful!) blonde hair, everyone saw the 'okay, he's gonna change places with Walter' twist coming.

That's pretty much what bothered me most about the movie - it was so utterly predictable on a micro level (individual story beats / scenes - like, how and when specific characters would die) as well as macro level (ok, they're first gonna be blindsided by xenomorph-like infections, casualties ensue. Eventually they're gonna get offed one by one, which climaxes in some kind of big fight. After the escape, everything SEEMS fine, but - surprise! - there's still an Alien on the ship, which finally gets blown into outer space)
The only thing that was new was the fact that the 'everyone went to sleep, everything's fine now, NO IT ISN'T' twist happened during the ending scene of this movie, as opposed to the beginning of the sequel. (like, LV426 having been colonized in Aliens, Hicks and Newt having been killed in Alien 3)

Oh, that sequence on the ship felt really dumb - so they were able to comfortably guide the xenomorph from airlock to airlock. Why not lock it in, position some explosives / flammables in its path, then have it go into the next segment, lock the doors behind it - kablammo! (or maybe, inflammo!). the whole 'i wanna lock it into the cockpit of my truck' idea was ... well, more than ambitious.

Overall, an okay movie. Certainly a bit less convoluted than Prometheus and therefore quite a bit better. But still nowhere close to Alien or Aliens.
I still preferred it over "Life", fwiw.
 

Guy.brush

Member
That plan with getting the xenomorph into the cargo bay was so weird.
"Yeah we kinda have it locked down here at this corridor junction, but let's open the door to this very vast cargo bay that has lots of dark corners and no lines of sight at all and hope for the best."
 

Mrbob

Member
The "David is Walter" twist, I'm unsure if that's even supposed to be a twist because the movie makes it so obvious and shows us so many clues. David cutting his air to match Walter. Not seeing how the fight ends. "Walter's" knowing glance back when he emerges from the temple. The hand being cut off rather than melted off. "Walter" trying to do his alien whisperer thing through the camera feed. It was a revelation for Daniels, but I don't think it was meant to be a twist for the audience.

Agreed, and what drives me crazy is that Daniels doesn't think to ask the log cabin question until sleepy time? When she was stapling "Walters" face would have been a perfect time. It still boggles logic that she never played that card until it was too late.
 

Fliesen

Member
Agreed, and what drives me crazy is that Daniels doesn't think to ask the log cabin question until sleepy time? When she was stapling "Walters" face would have been a perfect time. It still boggles logic that she never played that card until it was too late.

i don't think she asked the question because she wanted to test if it was really him. I think she just wanted some cozy thoughts and something to look forward to before she went to sleep in that crematorium cryo pod.
It wasn't until 'Walter' was unable to answer her question that her heart rate went up.
 

Timeaisis

Member
I guess I'm more concerned with why the goo makes creatures go down that path by design. I see no distinction between the creatures that result like I consider both a chow chow and a golden retriever both dogs even though they are different. To use your example of Beethoven I'm not interested in David's symphony as much as I am in who created music in the first place.

Well, in all fairness, we don't even know if the engineers were the originators of the goo to begin with. All we know is they used it in genetic engineering. Prometheus doesn't really answer these questions, either. It might be Scott's intention to keep that ambiguous.

But the reaction from the engineers David "bombed" in Covenant leads me to believe they knew what was coming. I believe reading somewhere (or maybe it was in Prometheus as well?) that the engineers had a bunch of different variations of the black goo evolution path they fiddled with and tested over the years. The ship downed in Prometheus was due to one of those experiments going wrong, but there were many, many more. David just used the raw materials to make what we know of as the Xenomorph today. That seems pretty cut and dry.

I'm surprised no one has put forward the theory that David is actually being controlled (or suggested) by Weyland Corporation to find and capture said biological organism for breeding. Androids knowing much more about the aliens than the crew does is a string that runs through practically every film in the series.
 
You watched David create the egg, the facehugger, and in doing so, the xenomorph. It was made very obvious by the film itself, and even if you want to go outside the text of the film, the director has already said David is its creator.
This is true, although just like it happened with me, the problem comes from people being bothered by the over-simplified term 'created' (which Ridley himself uses, as you pointed out).

Technically David designed the Xenomorph, something many will find more palatable.

By the way, I'm having a blast looking at the (magnificent) Huante work someone posted last page, to think that here we are complaining about the helmets and the whole pre-production/premise of the film is about stupid people using no safety means and getting infected in horrible ways by strange alien plants lol.
 

raindoc

Member
The "David is Walter" twist, I'm unsure if that's even supposed to be a twist because the movie makes it so obvious and shows us so many clues. David cutting his hair to match Walter. Not seeing how the fight ends. "Walter's" knowing glance back when he emerges from the temple. The hand being cut off rather than melted off. "Walter" trying to do his alien whisperer thing through the camera feed. It was a revelation for Daniels, but I don't think it was meant to be a twist for the audience.

I'm sure it is not (supposed to be a twist, at least not the big one ending the movie). They show a close-up of Walters self-healing capabilities only minutes before David (now acting as Walter) is shown tending to his wounds using a surgical stapler. All of the suspense I felt during the final bug-hunt onboard the Covenant was due to knowing it was David guiding the last survivors, not because of the alien.

EDIT: the reveal to Daniels as she was in the process of being put to sleep was my favorite horror-moment in the movie. Probably my favorite scene overall. I'm really not a fan of the David-plot as it stands now (i just watched the movie today, maybe it'll sink in), but that was beautifully gruesome.
 
Kane was wearing a helmet in the original Alien when they encountered facehugger eggs on the LV426. We all know how that turned out.

kane2.jpg
The Prometheus crew were also wearing helmets / suits and still suffered a gruesome fate.



The Covenant crew not wearing helmets is a non issue.
 

Jinroh

Member
And this planet is already terraformed and appears to have people on it.
When did mankind terraform it? It's not comparable in the slightest.

The only thing they knew is that it was hospitable. You just can't compare it to aliens or alien 3 when people had been established on these planets for months/years.
 
The Prometheus crew were also wearing helmets / suits and still suffered a gruesome fate.

helmet1.jpg


The Covenant crew not wearing helmets is a non issue.
All those gallons of blood they were bragging about using in Covenant and none of it was as unsettling as Fifield's acid drenched helmet falling onto his face like saran wrap.
 
It's a non issue. In Covenant there is an entire scene where the crew is scanning Planet 4 for habitation and its so far off the scale it's better than their original target planet that they spent 10 years researching.

The only reason people are talking about it was because this was a thing from Prometheus so its a knee-jerk comment. In that movie you had scientists on a mission landing on an uncharted, new world with helmets on, who for no real reason just take them off.. well... because.

Apples to oranges, and most people complaining aren't paying close enough attention is all.

You could not be more wrong. The reason 'people are going on about it' is because not wearing a helmet IS EXACTLY WHAT GETS SOME OF THE CREW INFECTED. It's not just a dumb 'kneejerk,' it's literally a plot beat. That's why it's so stupid. And the fact that it happens in both films is astonishingly stupid, and should be called out as such.

If the dude has a helmet on in Covenant, he doesn't get infected, ship doesn't explode, things aren't completely screwed. Fucking period. What don't you get?
 

Rymuth

Member
Kane was wearing a helmet in the original Alien when they encountered facehugger eggs on the LV426. We all know how that turned out.
That's what made it interesting. The fact that, for all your hardwork and caution, the horrors out in space will still get you. It plays on our cosmic-phobia.

The original Alien crew got a good head on their shoulders, all things considered. It makes their deaths all the more tragic.

When a stupid character acts stupidly, you don't feel a twinge of sadness. You either cheer for when their stupid asses finally get offed or just roll your eyes and count the seconds for when the movie is over.

I'd rather watch a story about a character trying their damndest to survive but still come up short than a group of bumbling buffoons getting picked like they're in a Jason movie.
 
All those gallons of blood they were bragging about using in Covenant and none of it was as unsettling as Fifield's acid drenched helmet falling onto his face like saran wrap.

Oh man! I was thinking the same thing throughout the movie. Nothing in Covenant came close to the "c-section" scene in Prometheus.
 
That's what made it interesting. The fact that, for all your hardwork and caution, the horrors out in space will still get you. It plays on our cosmic-phobia.

The original Alien crew got a good head on their shoulders, all things considered. It makes their deaths all the more tragic.

When a stupid character acts stupid, you don't feel a twinge of sadness. You either cheer for when their stupid asses finally get offed or just roll your eyes and count the seconds for when the movie is over.

I'd rather watch a story about a character trying their damndest to survive but still come up short than a group of bumbling buffoons getting picked like they're in a Jason movie.

Fucking ding ding.

Can't believe people need this explained to them.
 
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