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[theecakee]

Gaf I'm a bit worried about my brother. He has expressed suicidal thoughts. I've talked to my mom about it, and we have both tried to get him to seek help. I'm not very close to him personally though. It's just...a really complicated relationship and issue but I deeply care for him still. I don't know exactly what to do, I can't help him if he won't help himself. I can't force him to get help.

The other thing I worry about is he has a gun. My dad and this brother are both very conservative. We split hairs on this issue a lot, but this exact thing is why I am for gun control. Sure he could also just as easily chug a bottle of pills or what have you, but there is a chance he could survive that. A gun the chance is extremely low.

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Emerson]

Any person who is suicidal needs to be seen by a psychiatrist. Get him to the hospital and he will be committed. If he won't go, local police will take him.

 

[brianjones]

call the police

force the issue

talking suicide with access to firearms is taken seriously

 

[lightus]

Any person who is suicidal needs to be seen by a psychiatrist. Get him to the hospital and he will be committed. If he won't go, local police will take him.

I'm not sure if it's that simple. I don't think police will involve themselves unless it's an immediate threat. If it's not an immediate threat, wouldn't hurt to call the local police non-emergency number to see what can be done. If it is immediate, call the cops.


To OP, you say you're not very close with your brother. Maybe the first step would be getting closer to him. Don't try to change him from the start, just be there for him how you can. I don't know your situation and I know how difficult this sort of stuff is.

Don't let it get to the point where if something did happen you'll say to yourself "I could have done more". This is your chance to do "more". Not everyone gets this chance, don't let it pass you by if you can do something about it.

 

[Alphahawk]

If you believe he has the will and ability to hurt himself or others, you can do what's called, I believe a 51-50 hold (Not sure about the exact name) where he can be involuntarily held a psychiatric facility for like a day or so.

 

[daffy]

I'm not very close to him personally though.

I can't help him if he won't help himself. I can't force him to get help.

.

 

[tobactrac]

I'm not sure if it's that simple. I don't think police will involve themselves unless it's an immediate threat. If it's not an immediate threat, wouldn't hurt to call the local police non-emergency number to see what can be done. If it is immediate, call the cops.


To OP, you say you're not very close with your brother. Maybe the first step would be getting closer to him. Don't try to change him from the start, just be there for him how you can. I don't know your situation and I know how difficult this sort of stuff is.

Don't let it get to the point where if something did happen you'll say to yourself "I could have done more". This is your chance to do "more". Not everyone gets this chance, don't let it pass you by if you can do something about it.

Listen to this, OP. We don't know your situation and randos on the internet probably can't help all that much. For some foil to the posts above with all that definitive, policing advice: forcing the issue, calling the cops, or having his gun removed without his consent, or doing anything to violate what trust he might have in your relationship can isolate him even further. It's a shitty situation, good luck with everything.

 

[Emerson]

I'm not sure if it's that simple. I don't think police will involve themselves unless it's an immediate threat. If it's not an immediate threat, wouldn't hurt to call the local police non-emergency number to see what can be done. If it is immediate, call the cops.


To OP, you say you're not very close with your brother. Maybe the first step would be getting closer to him. Don't try to change him from the start, just be there for him how you can. I don't know your situation and I know how difficult this sort of stuff is.

Don't let it get to the point where if something did happen you'll say to yourself "I could have done more". This is your chance to do "more". Not everyone gets this chance, don't let it pass you by if you can do something about it.

It is that simple. I work in the ER and deal with this every single day.

A suicidal patient is an immediate threat by definition.

Your moral responsibility is to get him the help he needs. The law has specific provisions for this and he will rightly be involuntarily committed until a psychiatrist assesses him.

 

[Ryaaan14]

If they wanna die the gun won't make a diff

 

[23qwerty]

call the police

force the issue

good god no

what the fuck dude

 

[SamVimes]

If they wanna die the gun won't make a diff

Except it does.

 

[Mailbox]

If they wanna die the gun won't make a diff

an easy and ready way to kill yourself doesn't make a difference?
Did you honestly think even a little when making this post?

Like, you don't get the psychology of suicidal people at all, do you?

 

[Ryaaan14]

Except it does.

You ever owned or handled a gun? They are heavy, require force to operate, and have a VERY present feeling of danger. It's not like pushing an off button.

an easy and ready way to kill yourself doesn't make a difference?
Did you honestly think even a little when making this post?

Like, you don't get the psychology of suicidal people at all, do you?

And you didn't think about this post either based on that last sentence. You know nothing about me.

 

[CSJ]

You ever owned or handled a gun? They are heavy, require force to operate, and have a VERY present feeling of danger. It's not like pushing an off button.

As opposed to trying other methods which could also have less likely chance to achieve the goal. Medication can be thrown up and fuck you up, heights don't always work, cutting takes time while in the action.

A gun can be a single press, no time for regret to set in once done, and people doing the above regret all the time.

Note the "can be".

 

[Vicetrailia]

You ever owned or handled a gun? They are heavy, require force to operate, and have a VERY present feeling of danger. It's not like pushing an off button.



And you didn't think about this post either based on that last sentence. You know nothing about me.

Oh if you want something dead, a gun will serve it's one purpose just fine.

 

[Steel]

You ever owned or handled a gun? They are heavy, require force to operate, and have a VERY present feeling of danger. It's not like pushing an off button.

It's certainly the most effective method of suicide. All the other methods have a good chance of not working and instead leaving you crippled. Not saying there isn't a mental barrier to shooting a gun at your head, but it's much less of a mental barrier than being in a very high place and looking down or cutting yourself.

 

[Ryaaan14]

It's certainly the most effective method of suicide. All the other methods have a good chance of not working and instead leaving you crippled.

The entire point of my post to begin with is that being suicidal is the main issue here. It does NOT matter if there is a gun present.

 

[Steel]

The entire point of my post to begin with is that being suicidal is the main issue here. It does NOT matter if there is a gun present.

My point was that a suicidal person is more likely to commit suicide when they have access to an effective method. Out of all the methods guns are most likely to work and, while there is a mental barrier to overcome, have a low mental barrier. Well, medication has a lower barrier, but is less likely to work. You can look at any number of studies that show gun owners are far more likely to commit suicide.

 

[SamVimes]

The entire point of my post to begin with is that being suicidal is the main issue here. It does NOT matter if there is a gun present.

Every single study shows having an easier mean to suicide makes it way more likely. There's nothing easier/more effective than a gun.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

A gun makes a successful attempt more likely.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Except it does.

If a person is hell bent on taking their own life, removing a gun from the equation isn't going to change much other than how long it takes for them to die. See Robin Williams or Chris Cornell.

 

[Ryaaan14]

My point was that a suicidal person is more likely to commit suicide when they have access to an effective method. Out of all the methods guns are most likely to work and, while there is a mental barrier to overcome, have a low mental barrier. Well, medication has a lower barrier, but is less likely to work. You can look at any number of studies that show gun owners are far more likely to commit suicide.

Sorry but I just have issues with that frame of mind. I don't give a shit if you live in a hut with zero access to a mere razor blade. It's redundant to talk about the potential method of suicide when you should treat suicidal tendency with the exact same urgency.

Would OP have even made this thread if a gun wasn't in the picture? If not, what the fuck.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Access to guns is a huge risk factor for successful suicide attempts. This is not up for debate and it's been researched countless times.

Other methods of suicide are either messy, require prep-work, are painful and are often unsuccessful. A gun provides someone with the means to irreversibly flip the switch in a split second of suicidal intent. Just a few seconds of extremely harmful thoughts can cause someone to end their lives right there. No other method is like this.

It very much matters whether there's a gun present. Whether you like guns or not.

 

[Magni]

Sorry but I just have issues with that frame of mind. I don't give a shit if you live in a hut with zero access to a mere razor blade. It's redundant to talk about the potential method of suicide when you should treat suicidal tendency with the exact same urgency.

Would OP have even made this thread if a gun wasn't in the picture? If not, what the fuck.

Suicidal tendency should be treated as an emergency, yes. Part of that treatment is removing access to firearms.

 

[Ryaaan14]

It very much matters whether there's a gun present. Whether you like guns or not.

You've gotta be shitting me. Is this a popular opinion? Glaze over suicidal tendencies unless a gun is present? Maybe just remind them that life is precious if there's no gun. But if there's a gun you should call the police immediately?

Am I actually wrong here??

 

[Newt]

Get someone to take his gun.

 

[mrkgoo]

If they wanna die the gun won't make a diff

Makes a huge difference. A gun takes a second of bad judgement. Most other methods require a bit more effort and time to pull off, and perhaps less likely to succeed.
edit: eh, it's not really worth commenting about this point. not really the point here.

 

[Hoo-doo]

You've gotta be shitting me. Is this a popular opinion? Glaze over suicidal tendencies unless a gun is present? Maybe just remind them that life is precious if there's no gun. But if there's a gun you should call the police immediately?

Am I actually wrong here??

No but you certainly are dense. All people who have an active deathwish should have emergency treatment. I'd think that much is obvious.

But the fact of the matter is that access to guns drastically lowers the threshold to actually commit to the act. And a gun shot to the head is irreversible, unlike the semi-daily suicide attempts I see coming into the hospital with medication overdoses or slit wrists.

 

[Moose Biscuits]

Get someone to take his gun.

I will say that maybe not the best course of action is to make cops show up at his house wanting to commit him and take away his guns. OP, does he keep his gun loaded as an HD weapon?

 

[Ryaaan14]

No but you certainly are dense. All people who have an active deathwish should have emergency treatment. I'd think that much is obvious.

But the fact of the matter is that access to guns drastically lowers the threshold to actually commit to the act. And a gun shot to the head is irreversible, unlike the semi-daily suicide attempts I see coming into the hospital with medication overdoses or slit wrists.

Listen I'll be honest, but I know there's a huge disregard for this in the world, and I think it's really fucked up. I'm absolutely not going to mention personal stories but I know very well that people don't give a shit about making sure pills are removed after overdose attempts, and there is WEAK rehabilitation after cutting attempts. And it's bullshit. Suicide prevention is terrible and I feel like putting methods before the root cause is the main problem.

The world does not give a fuck about how you or your loved ones decide to take their own lives. Hopefully it's different outside America but jesus.

 

[Mailbox]

You've gotta be shitting me. Is this a popular opinion? Glaze over suicidal tendencies unless a gun is present? Maybe just remind them that life is precious if there's no gun. But if there's a gun you should call the police immediately?

Am I actually wrong here??

Yes you are wrong. (mostly in that what you suggest shows how narrow minded your view on the subject is)
Suicide is often not planned. Its often in the moment.


Having a gun around a suicidal person is NOT a good thing.
Get that through your head!

 

[truestatic]

You've gotta be shitting me. Is this a popular opinion? Glaze over suicidal tendencies unless a gun is present? Maybe just remind them that life is precious if there's no gun. But if there's a gun you should call the police immediately?

Am I actually wrong here??

I don't think anyone's saying that suicidal thoughts shouldn't be addressed and people troubled by them shouldn't be helped, so long as there's no gun. They're saying that the risk of suicide is MUCH HIGHER WHEN THERE'S A GUN.

Which it does.

 

[RiccochetJ]

You've gotta be shitting me. Is this a popular opinion? Glaze over suicidal tendencies unless a gun is present? Maybe just remind them that life is precious if there's no gun. But if there's a gun you should call the police immediately?

Am I actually wrong here??

No you're not. You could put someone in a padded cell and have them in a straight-jacket and if they want to end their life, they'll figure out a way.

The only argument I can see is that there might be some time after the person committed to ending their life. If it's pills, cutting their wrists etc, there's some time. Maybe after they're saved they may realize that it was a bad idea and lead a fulfilling life. I do know someone where that happened.

Yes you are wrong.
Suicide is often not planned. Its often in the moment.


Having a gun around a suicidal person is NOT a good thing.
Get that through your head!

If someone wants to die, there are plenty of ways to do it without a gun and the immediacy is as effective as a gun. Get that through your head.

 

[truestatic]

No you're not. You could put someone in a padded cell and have them in a straight-jacket and if they want to end their life, they'll figure out a way.

Oh my god.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/

It's not as simple as "someone who wants to kill themself will find a way." Someone with an easy way is much more likely to decide to do it.

f someone wants to die, there are plenty of ways to do it without a gun and the immediacy is as effective as a gun. Get that through your head.

50% of male suicides in the US are gun suicides.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide

People are two to three times more likely to commit suicide if they have access to guns in the home.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gun-suicide-idUSBREA0J1G920140120

Maybe this shit isn't a coincidence. Hanging isn't as easy. Poisoning isn't as easy. Gassing yourself in your car isn't as easy. Drowning yourself isn't as easy. Stabbing yourself isn't as easy. Slitting your wrists isn't as easy.

 

[BriareosGAF]

Any advice would be appreciated

Don't feel bad that you don't know what to do--you're not a professional counselor and it's reasonable to feel confused and okay to ask for help. Contact a suicide prevention hotline and ask them if they could refer you to someone you could speak to who could advise you on the situation confidentially.

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/help-someone-else/

 

[Hoo-doo]

Listen I'll be honest, but I know there's a huge disregard for this in the world, and I think it's really fucked up. I'm absolutely not going to mention personal stories but I know very well that people don't give a shit about making sure pills are removed after overdose attempts, and there is WEAK rehabilitation after cutting attempts. And it's bullshit. Suicide prevention is terrible and I feel like putting methods before the root cause is the main problem.

The world does not give a fuck about how you or your loved ones decide to take their own lives. Hopefully it's different outside America but jesus.

That's irrelevant to the point though. The point is that people with an active wish for suicide carry a way higher risk of actually ending their lives if there are guns present. Not only is it vastly more lethal, it's also has a way lower threshold for actually committing. Even a casual glance at the statistics and research could have told you as much.

I could tell you plenty of stories about people with suicide attempts coming into the hospital. We get them all the time.
But many of them make it out alive because they chose methods that aren't as irreversible as a gunshot to the head.

If someone wants to die, there are plenty of ways to do it without a gun and the immediacy is as effective as a gun. Get that through your head.

That don't require prep-work, travel or cause pain? I don't think there's a more effective and instant way to commit suicide than a gun in your home.

 

[Ryaaan14]

That's irrelevant to the point though. The point is that people with an active wish for suicide carry a way higher risk of actually ending their lives if there are guns present. Not only is it vastly more lethal, it's also has a way lower threshold for actually committing. Even a casual glance at the statistics and research could have told you as much.

I could tell you plenty of stories about people with suicide attempts coming into the hospital. We get them all the time.
But many of them make it out alive because they chose methods that aren't as irreversible as a gunshot to the head.

People keep conveniently ignoring my point that if someone wants to kill themselves, that is the actual problem. And owning a gun shouldn't increase the urgency of that. This thread looks like it was tailor made to target guns since for whatever reason OP felt like mentioning their brother was conservative. That's completely fucked up. And I'm a liberal who believes in TIGHT gun control.

Don't parade your politics in suicide topics.

 

[truestatic]

People keep conveniently ignoring my point that if someone wants to kill themselves, that is the actual problem. And owning a gun shouldn't increase the urgency of that. This thread looks like it was tailor made to target guns since for whatever reason OP felt like mentioning their brother was conservative. That's completely fucked up. And I'm a liberal who believes in TIGHT gun control.

Don't parade your politics in suicide topics.

I did not ignore your point. If someone wants to kill themselves, yes, that's a huge problem, and regardless of any other issue, it needs to be addressed. If that person owns a gun, YES, that is a compounding factor that should absolutely increase the urgency for anyone involved. Maybe gun ownership and mental health have some intersectionality here, and YOUR politics need to take a back seat.

 

[Hoo-doo]

People keep conveniently ignoring my point that if someone wants to kill themselves, that is the actual problem. And owning a gun shouldn't increase the urgency of that. This thread looks like it was tailor made to target guns since for whatever reason OP felt like mentioning their brother was conservative. That's completely fucked up. And I'm a liberal who believes in TIGHT gun control.

Don't parade your politics in suicide topics.

But the two are unequivocally linked. His brother has a higher risk of killing himself because he has access to the means. The urgency is higher and not all suicide risks are the same.

It's fine that you don't want to hear it, but to actively debate against it is a fool's errand.

 

[Ryaaan14]

YOUR politics need to take a back seat.

What are my politics?

 

[truestatic]

What are my politics?

Seeing as you're the one trying to shut down any talk about the risks of gun ownership, I assume your politics are the preservation beyond question of the second amendment. Someone brings up the risks of owning a gun and your reaction is to tell them to stop talking.

 

[Ryaaan14]

I assume your politics are

Ok at least you're transparent

 

[Stallion Dan]

Call police.

Worst case he hates you for it. Better than him being dead.

 

[Hoo-doo]

What are my politics?

You seem to actively stifle any discussion about the role of gun ownership in this issue. Like it or not, but gun ownership plays a big part in this story.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Oh my god.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/

It's not as simple as "someone who wants to kill themself will find a way." Someone with an easy way is much more likely to decide to do it.

You weren't paying attention to what I was saying about someone being hell bent on taking their own life or the article you posted. What you posted was about impulsive suicide.

I understand where you're coming from though. I agree with you.

OP, see if you can get your family help, yes I mean all your family. There's obviously a lot going on.

Edit:

That don't require prep-work, travel or cause pain? I don't think there's a more effective and instant way to commit suicide than a gun in your home.

Jumping. I could take a swan dive off my patio right now and I'm fairly certain I wouldn't survive the fall. Getting to a high place isn't exactly difficult in this day and age.

 

[Ryaaan14]

You seem to actively stifle any discussion about the role of gun ownership in this issue. Like it or not, but gun ownership plays a big part in this story.

I actually think gun ownership should be a painfully lengthy process of both lawful and medical examination. People should be able to own gun but it has to be the right people. That also has nothing to do with this conversation because I have nothing to lead me to believe this brother in question has a criminal history or a history of mental illness. It's completely reasonable to assume a rightful gun owner could acquire suicidal thoughts and that should be treated with the SAME urgency as ANY other at risk individual.

 

[Shiggie]

I actually think gun ownership should be a painfully lengthy process of both lawful and medical examination. People should be able to own gun but it has to be the right people. That also has nothing to do with this conversation because I have nothing to lead me to believe this brother in question has a criminal history or a history of mental illness. It's completely reasonable to assume a rightful gun owner could acquire suicidal thoughts and that should be treated with the SAME urgency as ANY other at risk individual.

What? did you read the OP?

 

[Scarecrow]

I know when I do it years down the line it'll be by gun. Jumping from a roof is too scary.

 

[ShironRedshift]

Call police.

Worst case he hates you for it. Better than him being dead.

That's well-meaning but it would be a terrible idea in this particular situation. Absolutely DO NOT call the police and if emergency services are called do your best to request that police not be sent. Too many stories about the police being called to help a suicidal loved one, only for the police to come and kill the person themselves because they feared for their own lives. Most police in the United States simply aren't at all trained to deal with suicidal situations and react with fear and force instead of de-escalation tactics, not knowing how else to handle it. Calling the police would put his life at risk just as much as anything else.

 

[Ryaaan14]

What? did you read the OP?

I'm sorry, OP neglected to provide details if anyone outside their family knows or if he even has a history of it.

To answer your question though yeah I read the OP.