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[Steelyuhas]

If you want to simplify it, I guess you could boil it down to does the majority buy a console based on the knowledge on a long road map of exclusives that they think are exciting, or do they want a powerful box at the right price point to play Madden, FIFA, and COD?

Obviously you can argue that's oversimplifying the purchasing decision, but I think it's worth pointing out that the majority buying a console probably aren't buying it because there's a CG trailer for a game that's ~3 years away.

---------

Another thought on reviews: Certainly an interesting time for reviews as GaaS games solidify as the most popular type of games around. The biggest new IP this gen (Destiny) got middling reviews, but in hindsight people didn't understand what would be appealing about that game and why it would be so popular at the time. As a reviewer, it's become very difficult to review these types of games not knowing what the engagement and content roadmap is going to be like.

 

[blakep267]

^which is why I'm suprised that Overwatch score so high. Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic and deserves it but a competitive MP only game with no story beats and 3-4 game modes at launch etc. It seems like exactly the type of game reviewers don't llove. I could've seen it getting in the 80's

Even the OG Titanfall only scored 86. I guess the blizzard name carries that extra boost

 

[Steelyuhas]

Yeah I was gonna mention Overwatch, but I'm kinda personally baffled by the critical and community response to that game. I guess you can see it as partially a "learning" on games like MCC and Destiny (MCC a cautionary tale on reviewing MP games, Destiny an example of not seeing what a GaaS game would be).

 

[Bits N Pieces]

My god we have entered selective arbitrary metacritic territory in here now lol

T minus 2 weeks

And what a long 2 weeks it's going to be! This thread is going to go places!!

Where is ntkrnl.....lol

 

[Raide]

So...who's making the train? 😂

 

[Thorrgal]

If you want to simplify it, I guess you could boil it down to does the majority buy a console based on the knowledge on a long road map of exclusives that they think are exciting, or do they want a powerful box at the right price point to play Madden, FIFA, and COD?

Obviously you can argue that's oversimplifying the purchasing decision, but I think it's worth pointing out that the majority buying a console probably aren't buying it because there's a CG trailer for a game that's ~3 years away.

---------

Another thought on reviews: Certainly an interesting time for reviews as GaaS games solidify as the most popular type of games around. The biggest new IP this gen (Destiny) got middling reviews, but in hindsight people didn't understand what would be appealing about that game and why it would be so popular at the time. As a reviewer, it's become very difficult to review these types of games not knowing what the engagement and content roadmap is going to be like.

Majority of the people will buy the "cheapest one where most players are" to play FIFA, Maddeb abd Cod, not the "powerful one at the right pricepoint"...that's why the PS4 Slim will be the most sold sku, followed by Xbox One S.

If they haven't jumped into this generation they won't jump in with Scorpio. Most people buying it will be either Xbox fans upgrading (most of them) or Ps4 owners looking for the best version of MP (which you could consider also hardcore)

So most of the people will buy the Xbox One S, and most of them will just do it to play 2-3 games a year.

But if you want the average PS4 owner to buy an Xbox One S and switch ecosystems then you really need to offer them more and better exclusives.

Let's not get into MC lists but let's be honest, Sony has been killing it with exclusives this past year. It's not "fake news", the Zeitgeist is real...MS had a lackluster sku and a lasckluster lineup.

Scorpio is great, will solve thr first problem and will content the Xbox base. To start pulling people from the other side you also need to solve the second, that's why I agree with those that say "show me the roadmap!"

 

[james1984]

A rare made Fable 4 with legends asset would be awesome, a play anywhere Age of empires 4 from Creative assembly Halo wars 2 team something that should happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUqp_58pIHE

this about e3 2016.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

All this talk about Fable and yet it wouldn't surprise me if we don't hear about it for a long time. On the other hand there is that rumor that Fable Legends is more or less being revived, sadly still F2P as well and all that. If they do it, hopefully they get their minds right for a change and give what the fans actually want.

A proper singleplayer mode and throw in a MP mode with all the GaaS for all i care but don't make the focus on MP. It won't work.

So guys, do we expect Moon Studios at E3? No big expectations for me in terms of brand new games except for at least one announcement. There at least has gotta be one.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

All this talk about Fable and yet it wouldn't surprise me if we don't hear about it for a long time. On the other hand there is that rumor that Fable Legends is more or less being revived, sadly still F2P as well and all that. If they do it, hopefully they get their minds right for a change and give what the fans actually want.

A proper singleplayer mode and throw in a MP mode with all the GaaS for all i care but don't make the focus on MP. It won't work.

So guys, do we expect Moon Studios at E3? No big expectations for me in terms of brand new games except for at least one announcement. There at least has gotta be one.

Do what I'm doing. I'm going into E3 only expecting a reveal for FM7, anything else will be a bonus

 

[pitchfork]

Still keeping the faith for a new Age of Empires - would bring a lot of people to the Windows store

 

[Shin]

Is this a thing btw? https://www.facebook.com/pg/XboxScorpioMS/photos/?tab=album&album_id=836477006518417
I checked the links but nothing seems to connect, though apparently Pearl Abyss is indeed working on a console version and have been for some time now.

 

[afgs]

The Xbox One S will probably receive a price cut.
250 or 199? what do you all think?

 

[gamz]

The Xbox One S will probably receive a price cut.
250 or 199? what do you all think?

No doubt.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

All this talk about Fable and yet it wouldn't surprise me if we don't hear about it for a long time. On the other hand there is that rumor that Fable Legends is more or less being revived, sadly still F2P as well and all that. If they do it, hopefully they get their minds right for a change and give what the fans actually want.

A proper singleplayer mode and throw in a MP mode with all the GaaS for all i care but don't make the focus on MP. It won't work.

So guys, do we expect Moon Studios at E3? No big expectations for me in terms of brand new games except for at least one announcement. There at least has gotta be one.

It has almost been a full year since MS last announced a new game for X1. On one hand, I think going in with low expectations is the right thing to do (I think Forza 7 and Ori 2 will be the new announcements). On the other hand, only having Forza 7 and Ori 2 since last year seems pretty anemic.

I want them to announce at least one more game to go along with the two above. However, I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if there isn't another game since I already have my expectations in check.

 

[willbsn13]

It has almost been a full year since MS last announced a new game for X1. On one hand, I think going in with low expectations is the right thing to do (I think Forza 7 and Ori 2 will be the new announcements). On the other hand, only having Forza 7 and Ori 2 since last year seems pretty anemic.

I want them to announce at least one more game to go along with the two above. However, I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if there isn't another game since I already have my expectations in check.

I agree with this. I feel like they've got to have more than two announces considering it's been nothing since June 2016. Thats why I predicted a few more announces.

At the same time (for me) they could just show 1hr 30min of FM7 and I'd still be happy.

 

[EmiPrime]

I mean well guess it's not for you. Phil already stated they aren't going to show things years from release. After this E3 you're likely not going to know what their full 2018 or 2019 slate looks like

I have been with Xbox since day one and have a 4K TV and 4K AV receiver. If Scorpio isn't for me then I have to wonder who it's for.

That is a really bad strategy for a console manufacturer. They're the only game publishers that genuinely benefit from announcing games far in advance, as it gives a sense that their console is a good long-term investment.

Exactly. Look at the buzz Death Stranding and Spider-Man generated: These big announcements inspire consumer confidence and show that the console manufacturer is investing in a big way in software.

I want evidence of great games to come, I am not going to take it on faith alone.

I'd rather not have another E3 2014 where MS scrambled for game announcements and showed off CG trailers for a large portion of the conference for games years away. I also don't care for games that far out because that just tells me you have nothing to release right now. If MS can have a 90 minute conference on things happening within a year, why not do that, instead of taking time away to announce projects years away when they can have their own time later?

Just because MS ballsed up E3 2014 doesn't mean showing games that are more than a year away is a bad idea. Sony manage it just fine.

 

[Ushay]

This. If Microsoft's big "AAA" exclusives of E3 2017 are CD3, SOD2, SOT and Forza 7 then they have screwed up. It will be a sign that they have run out of steam and have capitulated to Sony on the exclusives front. I want to know what I am getting into when I buy a console and I won't buy a Scorpio if I am not given a pretty good idea of what the next 1-2 years will look like.

I agree, the known games need to be fleshed out a whole lot especially CD3 and SoD2 for any sort of hype to build up over them. Most people want the unexpected, probably because Scorpio is tied to this conference.

I still think there is no way Spencer didn't greenlight any exclusives that ran alongside Scoprio development. I get the feeling either Bioware/EA or Bethesda may have a deal with them.

Edit - Correction EA has theirs before MS.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I have been with Xbox since day one and have a 4K TV and 4K AV receiver. If Scorpio isn't for me then I have to wonder who it's for.



Exactly. Look at the buzz Death Stranding and Spider-Man generated: These big announcements inspire consumer confidence and show that the console manufacturer is investing in a big way in software.

I want evidence of great games to come, I am not going to take it on faith alone.



Just because MS ballsed up E3 2014 doesn't mean showing games that are more than a year away is a bad idea. Sony manage it just fine.

It's a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Show off two or three early in development games and they get slated for "showing CGI" or "the game will just get cancelled anyway"

Only show games coming in the next 12/18 months and the narrative will be "they have no games" or "no investment in first party"

 

[sense]

I'd rather not have another E3 2014 where MS scrambled for game announcements and showed off CG trailers for a large portion of the conference for games years away. I also don't care for games that far out because that just tells me you have nothing to release right now. If MS can have a 90 minute conference on things happening within a year, why not do that, instead of taking time away to announce projects years away when they can have their own time later?

Also, 85 on Metacritic, let alone any score on there means shit. Remember, New Vegas got an 84.

How can the conference be exciting if they are only rolling out known quantities?

Besides, one of these days people will realize the reason they don't tease games a couple of years away is because it is the same goddamn games.....the ones that are not like crackdown, quantum break, sot, sod are teased well before. They are not going to promote halo5 and tease halo 6 coming out in 3 years, same for gears, or show forza 6 and then tease forza horizon 3 for the following year and say forza 7 is coming out the following year.....
There is a reason Sony announces a lot of stuff early because it works!!!! E3 should show the road map of games for Scorpio and they are going to have to show games years away to bring excitement to Scorpio for lapsed or new fans to rally around instead of just their existing fanbase upgrading.

 

[peppers]

It's a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Show off two or three early in development games and they get slated for "showing CGI" or "the game will just get cancelled anyway"

Only show games coming in the next 12/18 months and the narrative will be "they have no games" or "no investment in first party"

Yep, definitely. A partial solution to this would be to announce not the games, but the partners, and let them show the game when they feel it's ready.
I mean we know that Undead Labs is releasing State of Decay 2 this year, and they still signed another game to be released for Xbox. So let's imagine they create a new first party studio and show the new IP onstage but introduce it as a trilogy.
It's pretty fucked up that we got to this point but it's the way it goes I guess.

 

[Vinc]

I'd rather not have another E3 2014 where MS scrambled for game announcements and showed off CG trailers for a large portion of the conference for games years away. I also don't care for games that far out because that just tells me you have nothing to release right now. If MS can have a 90 minute conference on things happening within a year, why not do that, instead of taking time away to announce projects years away when they can have their own time later?

Also, 85 on Metacritic, let alone any score on there means shit. Remember, New Vegas got an 84.

Well, yes. This only works assuming that they're able to announce new titles every year AND release the ones they do announce. Basically, look at Sony's strategy. It's working. And that's how they managed to pull people back into their ecosystem while the 360 was dominating.

 

[gamz]

Well, yes. This only works assuming that they're able to announce new titles every year AND release the ones they do announce. Basically, look at Sony's strategy. It's working. And that's how they managed to pull people back into their ecosystem while the 360 was dominating.

Sony strategy was Xbox fucked up badly. I mean Xbox basically put it on a platter for Sony at the start of this generation. Good riddance Mattrick.

 

[Ushay]

Sony strategy was Xbox fucked up badly. I mean Xbox basically put it on a platter for Sony at the start of this generation. Good riddance Mattrick.

Indeed,, good riddance. This will be the first E3 where we can see real changes brought about by Phil's leadership. Exciting and worrying at the same time.

 

[EmiPrime]

It's a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Show off two or three early in development games and they get slated for "showing CGI" or "the game will just get cancelled anyway"

Only show games coming in the next 12/18 months and the narrative will be "they have no games" or "no investment in first party"

Well that's partly a problem of their own making, their own actions by cancelling certain games have eroded a lot of trust but regardless it's the right thing to show a first party roadmap for the next 1-2 years. Sony manage it, so can Microsoft.

Being able to announce a new action adventure game and a JRPG (just picking two gaps MS have in their lineup), even if they are late 2018 games, is much better than not showing them at all, doesn't matter how naysayers try to spin it.

 

[gamz]

Indeed,, good riddance. This will be the first E3 where we can see real changes brought about by Phil's leadership. Exciting and worrying at the same time.

You already are seeing it. He's building Xbox Live to be a gaming paradise. Now show us the first party games. I have zero worries with Phil --- The Xbox team knows what's up.

 

[Banamy]

Minecraft realms announcement would be huge. That would make every minecraft fanbase happy. Dedicated servers for ALL minecraft players. Imagine if you could crossplay.

 

[sense]

Sony strategy was Xbox fucked up badly. I mean Xbox basically put it on a platter for Sony at the start of this generation. Good riddance Mattrick.

That just seems reductive. If we are going down this path, would you agree that the only reason ms won last gen is because Sony fucked up and handed them a win on a platter? Should people say good riddance Kutaragi?

 

[Starfield]

I think first party is something where Xbox will always, always stay behind. Sony got a hell lot more inhouse studios working on games than Xbox and I would be even surprised if we ger more than 2 new ip announcements this year.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Showing far out software hasn't exactly worked out for MS this generation so I don't see why it's a good idea to keep doing that

MS just needs to deliver on those type of announcements. That is the only problem with stuff announced early. MS just hasn't given people a reason to believe they will. If they can do that, however, people will return the favor by showing interest, at the very least.

I'd rather not have another E3 2014 where MS scrambled for game announcements and showed off CG trailers for a large portion of the conference for games years away. I also don't care for games that far out because that just tells me you have nothing to release right now. If MS can have a 90 minute conference on things happening within a year, why not do that, instead of taking time away to announce projects years away when they can have their own time later?

Also, 85 on Metacritic, let alone any score on there means shit. Remember, New Vegas got an 84.

I always come back to the same question - why is it presented as impossible for them to do both? It can be done. You can have several games coming now and bigger games coming out later.

How can the conference be exciting if they are only rolling out known quantities?

Besides, one of these days people will realize the reason they don't tease games a couple of years away is because it is the same goddamn games.....the ones that are not like crackdown, quantum break, sot, sod are teased well before. They are not going to promote halo5 and tease halo 6 coming out in 3 years, same for gears, or show forza 6 and then tease forza horizon 3 for the following year and say forza 7 is coming out the following year.....
There is a reason Sony announces a lot of stuff early because it works!!!! E3 should show the road map of games for Scorpio and they are going to have to show games years away to bring excitement to Scorpio for lapsed or new fans to rally around instead of just their existing fanbase upgrading.

Yeah, the exciting announcements are usually reserved to the games longer out. Scalebound, Crackdown 3, Sea of Thieves, Phantom Dust, Sunset Overdrive (this wasn't that far out but yeah), etc...

The stuff that gets announced and released early are typically the core franchises we expect (Halo MCC, Forza, etc..) or smaller titles (ReCore).

Edit - ReCore took longer as well, actually....but it wasn't that long out.

Sony strategy was Xbox fucked up badly. I mean Xbox basically put it on a platter for Sony at the start of this generation. Good riddance Mattrick.

Sony's success was just boosted by what MS did. Sony was going to take the lead either way.

You only have to look at last generation with all the huge disadvantages PS3 had but still being able to catch up with/surpass X360.

 

[Monty Mole]

I think first party is something where Xbox will always, always stay behind. Sony got a hell lot more inhouse studios working on games than Xbox and I would be even surprised if we ger more than 2 new ip announcements this year.

Sony also has the reputational advantage of attracting second party opportunities. If you're an independent developer, given the choice, which of the two are you more likely to sign up with?

That said, Forza Horizon shows just how well things can go when Microsoft gets it right.

 

[EmiPrime]

You already are seeing it. He's building Xbox Live to be a gaming paradise. Now show us the first party games. I have zero worries with Phil --- The Xbox team knows what's up.

But the mismanagement of Lionhead, Phantom Dust and Scalebound happened on his watch...

 

[Vinc]

Sony strategy was Xbox fucked up badly. I mean Xbox basically put it on a platter for Sony at the start of this generation. Good riddance Mattrick.

That was a big issue that killed their momentum, yes. But it's been nearly 4 years now. The question is how does Microsoft recover.

 

[Ushay]

That just seems reductive. If we are going down this path, would you agree that the only reason ms won last gen is because Sony fucked up and handed them a win on a platter? Should people say good riddance Kutaragi?

To an extent yes in both cases. When one platform fails the other inevitably will capitalise the win. PS3 did screw up initially, and the reverse happened this generation to a much larger extent.

 

[The God]

Crackdown 3
Ashen
Cuphead
State of Decay 2
Forza 7

That's your roadmap. The focus should be making those games look as appealing as possible, not announcing stuff that don't actually have or aren't ready to show. They've done this before and it backfired.

Crackdown 3 was shown almost three years ago
Ashen was 2 years ago and is MIA
Cuphead was announced 3 years ago. MIA
Scalebound and the Phantom Dust reboot were cancelled

Microsoft shouldn't be following Sony. They need their own gameplan.

 

[gamz]

That was a big issue that killed their momentum, yes. But it's been nearly 4 years now. The question is how does Microsoft recover.

They've been recovering.

 

[Ushay]

Crackdown 3
Ashen
Cuphead
State of Decay 2
Forza 7

That's your roadmap. The focus should be making those games look as appealing as possible, not announcing stuff that don't actually have or aren't ready to show. They've done this before and it backfired.

Crackdown 3 was shown almost three years ago
Ashen was 2 years ago and is MIA
Cuphead was announced 3 years ago. MIA
Scalebound and the Phantom Dust reboot were cancelled

Microsoft shouldn't be following Sony. They need their own gameplan.

Absolutely they need not ape Sony game for game, I think they made this mistake when they tried the Tomb Raider exclusivity in response to Uncharted. They need to establish their identity with a new range of games that aren't the traditional Gears/Forza etc brand.

 

[gamz]

But the mismanagement of Lionhead, Phantom Dust and Scalebound happened on his watch...

Right. Why pour money into something that is a losing cause?

Scalebound was obviously a dog. Shit happens.

 

[sense]

Crackdown 3
Ashen
Cuphead
State of Decay 2
Forza 7

That's your roadmap. The focus should be making those games look as appealing as possible, not announcing stuff that don't actually have or aren't ready to show. They've done this before and it backfired.

Crackdown 3 was shown almost three years ago
Ashen was 2 years ago and is MIA
Cuphead was announced 3 years ago. MIA
Scalebound and the Phantom Dust reboot were cancelled

Microsoft shouldn't be following Sony. They need their own gameplan.

I agree they need their own plan because they don't have nearly the amount of first party studios as Sony has but you can't have a roadmap ending in the next 6 months and have everyone twiddle their thumbs for the next 6 months until the next e3 rolls around especially when you are releasing a new console...

 

[EmiPrime]

Right. Why pour money into something that is a losing cause?

Scalebound was obviously a dog. Shit happens.

They wouldn't have been lost causes had Microsoft managed them properly.

The end result remains that us Xbox owners missed out on Fable 4 (nobody at Lionhead wanted to make Legends) and an exclusive PG game (I don't think it's a coincidence that the only game PG have had cancelled is the one they worked on for Microsoft). What happened to the developer of the Phantom Dust remake was extraordinary too. If we're going to attribute every failure of the Kinect era to Mattrick then Spencer has to take his lumps too.

 

[Rumblebones]

There it is, like clockwork, Phil gets a pass for something that happened on his watch because developers are shit or some other trite reasoning.

I've been gaming on Xbox since the original as a kid. I used considered myself "loyal" to the brand because the output of games way back when suited my tastes. I think the 360 era started out great, but how it ended was a indicative of how this generation would go.

Mattrick did a lotta shit wrong and a lotta shit right for the brand to keep it afloat, and I think after 4 years, we're just going to have to accept Phil will be an improvement, but not by as much as we'd like.

As always I'll be looking forward to their conference and hoping they do well but I'm not expecting a whole lot outta them.

 

[gamz]

They wouldn't have been lost causes had Microsoft managed them properly.

The end result remains that us Xbox owners missed out on Fable 4 (nobody at Lionhead wanted to make Legends) and an exclusive PG game (I don't think it's a coincidence that the only game PG have had cancelled is the one they worked on for Microsoft). What happened to the developer of the Phantom Dust remake was extraordinary too. If we're going to attribute every failure of the Kinect era to Mattrick then Spencer has to take his lumps too.

I'm not saying it's Mattrick or Spencer issue. The games didn't work out. Not much else to say. Games, movies, and whatever else get canceled all the time. Why pour money into a dog.

 

[EvB]

They wouldn't have been lost causes had Microsoft managed them properly.

The end result remains that us Xbox owners missed out on Fable 4 (nobody at Lionhead wanted to make Legends) and an exclusive PG game (I don't think it's a coincidence that the only game PG have had cancelled is the one they worked on for Microsoft). What happened to the developer of the Phantom Dust remake was extraordinary too. If we're going to attribute every failure of the Kinect era to Mattrick then Spencer has to take his lumps too.

Platinum games have basically gone bust twice, this is their third attempt. I genuinely believe there are some underlying business culture issues with the main people involved

 

[Rumblebones]

I'm not saying it's Mattrick or Spencer issue. The games didn't work out. Not much else to say. Games, movies, and whatever else get canceled all the time. Why pour money into a dog.

Funny how games just "don't work out" under Microsoft, huh?

 

[gamz]

Funny how games just "don't work out" under Microsoft, huh?

It's not funny, it's business. Projects don't work out. It's really that simple and not exclusive to MS.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Funny how games just "don't work out" under Microsoft, huh?

At the very least, everyone involved should get some blame until we get more concrete details. Trying to attribute it to one side is always annoying to see.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Ashen and Cuphead clearly isn't MS problem since all MS did is just gave them budget and time, but you know, they're indies, better gave them freedom otherwise they will start complaining in gaming forums lol.

 

[Trup1aya]

Games get cancelled all the time, by all parties. It doesn't matter who's in charge, some games arent going to workout. I don't think Scalebound, Fable Legends, and a phantom dust getting cancelled is comparable to completely whiffing on a console's design and business model.

Scalebound never looked good, though the premise was strong, I can't blame MS for signing them. Fable Legends should have been side project, not a game with AAA production values (and costs). Who's idea was that? Phantom Dust was announced way too early (a lesson that I think Phil learned from).

Back on topic. I just had a vision: Turn 10 came out to announce their newest game. But it wasn't Forza 7. It was Project Gotham Racing made in conjunction with another studio using ForzaTech. My life would be complete.

 

[leeh]

Funny how games just "don't work out" under Microsoft, huh?

Yeah, those games which got slated every time they were shown by the mass populous and got delayed every year which were bound to return a loss didn't work out.

Its never a black and white situation, I'm sure there are a load of issues around everything that got cancelled if you had a coffee with some of the guys involved.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Games get cancelled all the time, by all parties. It doesn't matter who's in charge, some games arent going to workout. I don't think Scalebound, Fable Legends, and a phantom dust getting cancelled is comparable to completely whiffing on a console's design and business model.

Scalebound never looked good, though the premise was strong. Fable Legends should have been side project, not a game with AAA production values (and costs). Phantom Dust was announced way too early (a lesson that I think Phil learned from).

Back on topic. I just had a vision: Turn 10 came out to announce their newest game. But it wasn't Forza 7. It was Project Gotham Racing made in conjunction with another studio using ForzaTech. My life would be complete.

Actually i think if Fable Legends is just side project, they will keep it, but well, it cost MS $75 millions and still unable turn it to good, so that's that, it cancelled.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Games get cancelled all the time, by all parties. It doesn't matter who's in charge, some games arent going to workout. I don't think Scalebound, Fable Legends, and a phantom dust getting cancelled is comparable to completely whiffing on a console's design and business model.

Scalebound never looked good, though the premise was strong, I can't blame MS for signing them. Fable Legends should have been side project, not a game with AAA production values (and costs). Who's idea was that? Phantom Dust was announced way too early (a lesson that I think Phil learned from).

Back on topic. I just had a vision: Turn 10 came out to announce their newest game. But it wasn't Forza 7. It was Project Gotham Racing made in conjunction with another studio using ForzaTech. My life would be complete.

Yup, don't wanna do a Sony Too! but I am sure they have games that are in development and cancel...they are just smarter on when to show it/announce it lol.

As far as PGR...stop, that shit is dead it ain't coming back. FH is their replacement for that.