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When the Left Turns on Its Own (NYT Opinion)

Shiggy

Member
In the previous thread, which was closed by Modbot, there was one source with further accusation against this professor, e.g. his opposition to an Equity Council.


The WSJ posted an opinion piece by Weinstein, in which he also goes on to talk about those allegations:

The Campus Mob Came for Me—and You, Professor, Could Be Next

I was not expecting to hold my biology class in a public park last week. But then the chief of our college police department told me she could not protect me on campus. Protestors were searching cars for an unspecified individual—likely me—and her officers had been told to stand down, against her judgment, by the college president.

Racially charged, anarchic protests have engulfed Evergreen State College, a small, public liberal-arts institution where I have taught since 2003. In a widely disseminated video of the first recent protest on May 23, an angry mob of about 50 students disrupted my class, called me a racist, and demanded that I resign. My ”racist" offense? I had challenged coercive segregation by race. Specifically, I had objected to a planned ”Day of Absence" in which white people were asked to leave campus on April 12. Day of Absence is a tradition at Evergreen. In previous years students and faculty of color organized a day on which they met off campus—a symbolic act based on the Douglas Turner Ward play in which all the black residents of a Southern town fail to show up one morning.

This year, however, the formula was reversed. ”White students, staff and faculty will be invited to leave the campus for the day's activities," the student newspaper reported, adding that the decision was reached after people of color ”voiced concern over feeling as if they are unwelcome on campus, following the 2016 election."

In March I objected in an email to all staff and faculty. ”There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and under-appreciated roles . . . and a group or coalition encouraging another group to go away," I wrote. ”On a college campus, one's right to speak—or to be—must never be based on skin color."

My email was published by the student newspaper, and Day of Absence came and went almost without incident. The protest of my class emerged seemingly out of the blue more than a month later. Evergreen has slipped into madness. You don't need the news to tell you that—the protesters' own videos will do. But those clips reveal neither the path that led to this psychosis, nor the cautionary nature of the tale for other campuses. Evergreen is arguably the most radical college in the country—and while it does lean far to the left in a political sense, it is the school's pedagogical structure to which I refer. Rather than placing students in many separate classes, most of our curriculum is integrated into full-time programs that may run the entire academic year. This structure allows students and professors to come to know each other very well, such that Evergreen can deliver a deep, personally tailored education that would be impossible elsewhere. When it works well, it is unlike anything else.

Last week's breakdown of institutional order is far from an indictment of our founder's wisdom. Rather, the protests resulted from a tension that has existed throughout the entire American academy for decades: The button-down empirical and deductive fields, including all the hard sciences, have lived side by side with ”critical theory," postmodernism and its perception-based relatives. Since the creation in 1960s and '70s of novel, justice-oriented fields, these incompatible worldviews have repelled one another. The faculty from these opposing perspectives, like blue and red voters, rarely mix in any context where reality might have to be discussed. For decades, the uneasy separation held, with the factions enduring an unhappy marriage for the good of the (college) kids.

Things began to change at Evergreen in 2015, when the school hired a new president, George Bridges. His vision as an administrator involved reducing professorial autonomy, increasing the size of his administration, and breaking apart Evergreen's full-time programs. But the faculty, which plays a central role in the college's governance, would never have agreed to these changes. So Mr. Bridges tampered with the delicate balance between the sciences and humanities by, in effect, arming the postmoderns. The particular mechanism was arcane, but it involved an Equity Council established in 2016. The council advanced a plan that few seem to have read, even now—but that faculty were nonetheless told we must accept without discussion. It would shift the college ”from a diversity agenda" to an ”equity agenda" by, among other things, requiring an ”equity justification" for every faculty hire.

The plan and the way it is being forced on the college are both deeply authoritarian, and the attempt to mandate equality of outcome is unwise in the extreme. Equality of outcome is a discredited concept, failing on both logical and historical grounds, as anyone knows who has studied the misery of the 20th century. It wouldn't have withstood 20 minutes of reasoned discussion. This presented traditional independent academic minds with a choice: Accept the plan and let the intellectual descendants of Critical Race Theory dictate the bounds of permissible thought to the sciences and the rest of the college, or insist on discussing the plan's shortcomings and be branded as racists. Most of my colleagues chose the former, and the protesters are in the process of articulating the terms. I dissented and ended up teaching in the park.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-campus-mob-came-for-meand-you-professor-could-be-next-1496187482

(If a mod wants me to remove the article, please either send a PM or delete it yourself)
 
I am a little over 30 minutes into the Joe Rogan podcast and it's very interesting to listen to no matter where your opinion shifts on this story.
 
It sounds like the well intentioned empowerment of the students by the faculty really blew up in their faces. The way that president was treated was shocking and tge fact that he just took it and meekly gives into all their demands looks utterly pathetic.
 

Chumly

Member
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/31/the-truth-about-the-evergreen-protests/

Progressive cred notwithstanding, Weinstein put the Evergreen student body at risk by publicizing the protest in such a dishonest and unflattering way. The faces, names and phone numbers of student organizers were published online on subreddits dedicated to harassing leftists and people of color. A swastika was spray-painted on the side of a seminar building the day after the protest. Students living in Olympia have been routinely harassed by Weinstein’s sympathizers who show up to on and off-campus housing to threaten violence and shout racial slurs at students. These are all directly the fault of Weinstein’s self-martyrdom and his control of a narrative that does not belong to him.

Some clarification is necessary. Weinstein claims the on-campus protests from May 14 to current day are all about him and his contributions to the staff and faculty email. The email he has highlighted is one where he voices opposition to the annual school event, claiming the Day of Absence/Day of Presence is one which oppressively segregated white people. The structure of DoA/DoP has been the same at Evergreen every year since the 1970s, inspired by a play of the same name by Douglas Turner Ward. This 3 day long event has consisted of optional workshops for people of color who share cultural practices with each other, resistance tactics against racism, and workshops for white people to do anti-racist work from a white perspective. Both groups come together in the following days and share what they have learned to build a stronger and more conscious multiracial learning environment for all. In previous years, the workshops for people of color were held off-campus (hence the “absence” in the title), but this year the administrative organizers chose to hold the workshops for white people off-campus instead. The presence day functioned the same. Weinstein stated that because the structure had reversed, and now called for the absence of white participants, it was a “show of force, and an act of oppression in itself.”

Other articles
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/protests-on-evergreen-campus-students-challenge-racism-and-anti-blackness/

Theres many more on the website.

Also the protests did not start out due to the the professor but the arrest of two black students. The disruption of his class was a secondary event that happened.
 

jWILL253

Banned
I'm getting a little sick of all the finger-wagging the media and people in this thread are doing to college students and minority folks who chose to speak out.

All that I've read so far indicates that this professor is opposed to measures that create equity. This letter is another example of that. So, for all intents and purposes, this professor is as progressive as the majority of people in this very thread; as in, not very progressive at all, especially if THIS is what's got you all riled up. Because he isn't asking for reason, logic and proper justice. What he's asking for is order, and for his boat to not be rocked. He mentions that it was a voluntary move to have White students leave campus for a day, so clearly the student body doesn't have an issue with it. The fact that he chose to go public with it and do interviews with Joe "Tolerant Left" Rogan to make himself into some sort of a victim probably put this shit over the top. He's actively speaking out against his own students for something they agreed to do, and gaining publicity for it.

The problem with the left isn't this protest, or anything like it; the problem with the left is being antagonistic towards any ideas of equity, and being hostile towards the wants and needs of people of color in general, even though Black women are the biggest supporters for the Democratic Party. The problem with the left is being done in by pettiness... but not pettiness over things like equity and social justice... but pettiness over emails and purity tests. The problem with the left is the moderates calling themselves progressive, while not actually embracing progressivism and writing anyone that speaks out against the order as crazy people with no understanding of the real world.

By the way, as a Black man and a former college student myself, let me show you what the real world is at the moment:

  • White supremacists, Russian mobsters & corporate cronies currently run the federal government, in nearly all areas.
  • The Voting Rights Act was gutted by the Supreme Court because apparently America isn't racist anymore... and as a result, voting ID laws have become a bit more commonplace as of recent.
  • We have an entire political party that wants to remove people from getting health care, remove any focus on climate change, and wants to gut every entitlement and cut education funding in the name of tax cuts.
  • Segregation is still a thing.
  • Policemen are still killing Black people in cold blood and getting away with it.
  • Immigrants are still being written off as leeches on society's tit (even though they are typically some of the hardest working Americans you can find) while the 1% makes the most money, but contributes less than anyone else.
  • Prisons still profit from removing Black & Brown men from their families and into the cycle of incarceration.
  • Even though all of us are set to be fucked by globalization & automation, you'll be fucked even harder, and with a bigger dick, if you're a person of color.
  • Women are still treated as second-class citizens whose bodies aren't even respected by some state governments, let alone their rights.
  • Right-wing groups are selling themselves out to foreign entities the world over, just so they can say whatever they want without consequence, kill niggas without reprecussion, and keep female characters in video games in revealing clothing without feeling guilty about it.
  • People of color don't get to have better, cleaner, safer neighborhoods and still afford to actually live in them.
  • We still got crack and guns in our inner cities, creating a cycle of dependency and violence that will never end, and no one is gonna do anything about it. All we get is an admission from former Reagan cabinet members as to why they put the guns & crack there in the first place.

There. Did I paint a pretty picture of today's world? I think I have a better understanding of the world than most of the finger-waggers in this thread, tbh.

And no, this won't hurt Evergreen College in the future. This college is still gonna exist, and professors will still work there, and students will still mortgage their futures for a piece of paper that will help them secure their future barista career at Starbucks so they can pay off their loans for the next 20 years. Nothing will change. I know exactly how this fucking world and all of its institutions work. These students want to change that; or at the very least, make it a little better for themselves and the people around them, so that they can find some kind of peace before they die as broke as they were they day they were born.

So, sincerely, fuck you from the bottom of my heart if you're in here chastising these students for calling this professor out for his frankly weak-ass beliefs and so-called "progressive" stances. And fuck you even more for suggesting that compromising with people that literally want to see me and people like me hanging from trees, is somehow the way that the real world should work.
 
*PoC group as an absence day where some choose to not attend school every year.
*This year the PoC group wanted White people to not attend school.
*Professor didn't feel like PoC group should tell Whites to not attend school
*Protestors called the Professor Racist/wanted him fired. (Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg)
*Professor was told by police they could not protect him on campus because president told police to stand down.
*Professor taught class at a local park off of campus grounds.

Ah thanks, my reading comprehension wasn't really up to standard at 5AM.
 
They're pretty blatant about how little they care for their fellow man. But they're far less likely to attempt to destroy their peer over something they deem out of line. That's why they control the government right now and the left doesn't.
The current Republican Party has taken tribalism to the extreme, and you think that the most effective response to that from "the left" is more tribalism?
 
It's pretty bullshit to blame Weinstein for putting the college at risk when the Youtube videos the protesters put up attracted the attention in the first place. He's just telling his side of the story. If you want to dive in and read about this mess, by all means read the student newspaper, just understand that it's not neutral either.
 

Chumly

Member
It's pretty bullshit to blame Weinstein for putting the college at risk when the Youtube videos the protesters put up attracted the attention in the first place. He's just telling his side of the story. If you want to dive in and read about this mess, by all means read the student newspaper, just understand that it's not neutral either.
He's absolutely to blame. Going on tucker Carlson and rallying the media around him is disgusting. You don't think it's a tiny bit suspicious that faculty also signed a letter of support for the students?
 
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/31/the-truth-about-the-evergreen-protests/



Other articles
http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/05/27/protests-on-evergreen-campus-students-challenge-racism-and-anti-blackness/

Theres many more on the website.

Also the protests did not start out due to the the professor but the arrest of two black students. The disruption of his class was a secondary event that happened.

Hearing that the college just decided to hold the off-campus workshop for white people instead of people of color (like how it historically was done) really changes the entire story.

And certainly puts the professor's comments into perspective. I'm guessing he didn't make as much of a public complaint when it was the workshop for people of color being held off campus. Only when the one for white people was.
 

Kinyou

Member
He's absolutely to blame. Going on tucker Carlson and rallying the media around him is disgusting. You don't think it's a tiny bit suspicious that faculty also signed a letter of support for the students?
So again, should he not defend himself when his job is threatend? What did the people asking for him to get fired expect?
 
He's absolutely to blame. Going on tucker Carlson and rallying the media around him is disgusting. You don't think it's a tiny bit suspicious that faculty also signed a letter of support for the students?
So he's never allowed to tell his side of the story? That's an interesting point of view.

No, I don't think it's suspicious that some faculty signed a letter in support of the students.
 

Chumly

Member
Hearing that the college just decided to hold the off-campus workshop for white people instead of people of color (like how it historically was done) really changes the entire story.

And certainly puts the professor's comments into perspective. I'm guessing he didn't make as much of a public complaint when it was the workshop for people of color being held off campus. Only when the one for white people was.
Of course not. He magically got pissed when the workshops for white people got moved off campus. I'm surprised that he didn't object every year prior to the minority workshops being held off campus. I mean he's a true progressive.
 
So again, should he not defend himself when his job is threatend? What did the people asking for himt to get fired expect?

Maybe to deal with it on campus through normal processes instead of bringing the *RIGHT-WING* media and their audience into it

If he's such an ally as he claims to be, he should have realized going on fucking Tucker Carlson was a bad idea immediately.
 
Of course not. He magically got pissed when the workshops for white people got moved off campus. I'm surprised that he didn't object every year prior to the minority workshops being held off campus. I mean he's a true progressive.
Okay, this is like talking to Bam Bam in an NBA thread.
 

Chumly

Member
So he's never allowed to tell his side of the story? That's an interesting point of view.

No, I don't think it's suspicious that some faculty signed a letter in support of the students.
???? Literally all we have talked about is his point of view. The last three threads were from his point of view. Don't you think that's slanted? Is it not ok to post the students view? You only seemed concerned to hear his side of the story and everything else is biased
 

Aytumious

Banned
Hearing that the college just decided to hold the off-campus workshop for white people instead of people of color (like how it historically was done) really changes the entire story.

And certainly puts the professor's comments into perspective. I'm guessing he didn't make as much of a public complaint when it was the workshop for people of color being held off campus. Only when the one for white people was.

He made his objection to that point very clear in the OP.

“There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and under-appreciated roles,” he wrote, “and a group or coalition encouraging another group to go away.”

I agree with him completely on this point.
 

PnCIa

Member
*PoC group as an absence day where some choose to not attend school every year.
*This year the PoC group wanted White people to not attend school.
*Professor didn't feel like PoC group should tell Whites to not attend school
*Protestors called the Professor Racist/wanted him fired. (Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg)
*Professor was told by police they could not protect him on campus because president told police to stand down.
*Professor taught class at a local park off of campus grounds.
Thank you.
Also, the video is just crazy.
 
???? Literally all we have talked about is his point of view. The last three threads were from his point of view. Don't you think that's slanted? Is it not ok to post the students view? You only seemed concerned to hear his side of the story and everything else is biased
I've read articles from the student newspaper and you're free to present their ideas.
 
Hearing that the college just decided to hold the off-campus workshop for white people instead of people of color (like how it historically was done) really changes the entire story.

And certainly puts the professor's comments into perspective. I'm guessing he didn't make as much of a public complaint when it was the workshop for people of color being held off campus. Only when the one for white people was.

He perfectly explained the reasoning why he was okay with one compared to the other.
 
He made his objection to that point very clear in the OP.



I agree with him completely on this point.

That doesn't sound relevant to what actually happened. White people weren't forced to go to the off campus workshop this year any more than people of color were forced to go to it in year's past.
 

Kinyou

Member
Maybe to deal with it on campus through normal processes instead of bringing the *RIGHT-WING* media and their audience into it

If he's such an ally as he claims to be, he should have realized going on fucking Tucker Carlson was a bad idea immediately.
The students didn't exactly go through normal process either, did they? Why exactly he went to Tucker Carlson, I don't know, but did he tell any misinformation there? Or are people just mad he speaks out?
 

2MF

Member
Fuck off with this garbage, calling this "segregated housing" is worse than the fools who say that Berkeley et alia are "censoring" Milo by not allowing him to speak there. It's a completely incorrect usage of words that have very specific meaning, which when applied like this, manage to turn marginalized students asking to feel safe in their homes into the oppressors. Segregation and censorship are very specific terms that refer to regulatory action decreed by governing bodies, in this case university administrations. What the student group you've quoted is asking for is not segregation, but is effectively integration through the creation of a safe community in which minority students can live, on campus, free from harm. What they are asking for is literally no different than rent control programs or women-only dorms, except that what unifies the residents would be race rather than economic class or gender. Why shouldn't a university, an institution explicitly organized to invest in young people and make them better, reach out to marginalized groups within their student body and give them the tools they need to succeed? There's certainly room for discussion about whether making such campus living arrangements based on race is effective or whether it would be better to focus on economically disadvantaged students of all kinds. But calling a demand for help "segregation" is not only linguistically incorrect, but is irresponsible and disrespectful to marginalized groups who already have enough discrimination and hatred to deal with.

I get that voluntary separation is not the same thing as segregation. But when a student union asks for the university admins to make a housing area restricted to a specific race, that's literally asking for segregation is it not?

Definitions of words aside, separating out student housing seems counter-productive in the long run by reinforcing the "us" and "them" mentality. This is regressive and not progressive IMO...
 
People are mad he both disagrees with them and is speaking out. Although if he'd only done the Times (edit: WSJ) editorial he might have gotten a bit of a pass.
 

Future

Member
*PoC group as an absence day where some choose to not attend school every year.
*This year the PoC group wanted White people to not attend school.
*Professor didn't feel like PoC group should tell Whites to not attend school
*Protestors called the Professor Racist/wanted him fired. (Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg)
*Professor was told by police they could not protect him on campus because president told police to stand down.
*Professor taught class at a local park off of campus grounds.

So are people defending black students requesting white students to not attend school? Because if that's all there is to this I'm not quite sure I understand why anyone would think that's ok, or better, why anyone would hate on anyone that'd have a problem with it
 
That doesn't sound relevant to what actually happened. White people weren't forced to go to the off campus workshop this year any more than people of color were forced to go to it in year's past.


The difference is one group deciding upon itself to voluntarily leave campus, and then that group 'asking' another group to leave campus. He outlined that difference in the email.
 

Trokil

Banned
There. Did I paint a pretty picture of today's world? I think I have a better understanding of the world than most of the finger-waggers in this thread, tbh.

None of that is in any way related to the professor or the cause. If you use that as an excuse to bully somebody who does not share your opinion, then you are using a general injustice to somehow legitimize your own injustice. Which does not make it in any way better. But I guess it as good as any slippery slope you can go down.

So are people defending black students requesting white students to not attend school? Because if that's all there is to this I'm not quite sure I understand why anyone would think that's ok, or better, why anyone would hate on anyone that'd have a problem with it

Not asking, demanding. If someone wants to do that, that is their right, if somebody is demadning something that is something different and he tried to explain that.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...rgreen-state-students-demand-firing-professor

"There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and underappreciated roles (the theme of the Douglas Turner Ward play Day of Absence, as well as the recent Women's Day walkout), and a group encouraging another group to go away," Weinstein wrote. "The first is a forceful call to consciousness, which is, of course, crippling to the logic of oppression. The second is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself."
 

Aytumious

Banned
That doesn't sound relevant to what actually happened. White people weren't forced to go to the off campus workshop this year any more than people of color were forced to go to it in year's past.

How is it not relevant when his objection led to the confrontation between him and the students?
 
The students didn't exactly go through normal process either, did they? Why exactly he went to Tucker Carlson, I don't know, but did he tell any misinformation there? Or are people just mad he speaks out?

People are mad that personal information about students was revealed to the public as a result of him going to the media.

It is easy to see why the school administration is not supporting him - he has actively made life on campus less safe for some students through his actions.

("But students did it!!" isn't a good argument either - he is a professor and has an obligation to student safety. Not that I consider protesting an offense, either.)
 

Future

Member
People are mad that personal information about students was revealed to the public as a result of him going to the media.

It is easy to see why the school administration is not supporting him - he has actively made life on campus less safe for some students through his actions.

("But students did it!!" isn't a good argument either - he is a professor and has an obligation to student safety. Not that I consider protesting an offense, either.)

Did he actually release students names? Or were they simply revealed as part of the medias investigation into the story
 
He's absolutely to blame. Going on tucker Carlson and rallying the media around him is disgusting. You don't think it's a tiny bit suspicious that faculty also signed a letter of support for the students?

SOME of the faculty showed support. The petition was started by a media/gender studies professor and a theatre/English professor, aka the kinda of folk who likely would have BEEN these students 20 years ago, and people often sign things like petitions without being fully aware of the situation.

Those Cooper Point articles are atrociously argued, btw. Weinstein very obviously got done dirty, and he's explained his positions pretty damn thoroughly on every forum he's been invited to. After the ridiculous Christakis debacle (the students who treated that particular professor like shit were recently awarded at their graduation, btw), I don't blame a dude for trying to get ahead of a story like this, and his "infraction" was even way less!

Edit: And, no, white people were not technically forced to leave campus, but the request was phrased in such a way as to make it feel socially compulsory. I would say this is pretty clearly a wrong way to have a protest, especially when students who did go on-campus for Weinstein's class were harangued for it.
 
The students didn't exactly go through normal process either, did they? Why exactly he went to Tucker Carlson, I don't know, but did he tell any misinformation there? Or are people just mad he speaks out?

Maybe because they are the ones that called him. I don't know?. The right seems to love the idea when the 'left' eat their own
 
I get that voluntary separation is not the same thing as segregation. But when a student union asks for the university admins to make a housing area restricted to a specific race, that's literally asking for segregation is it not?

Definitions of words aside, separating out student housing seems looks counter-productive in the long run by reinforcing the "us" and "them" mentality. This is regressive and not progressive IMO...

It seems pretty toxic and racist to me, and what it basically does is give levy to the idea that whites and blacks are not the same. You can re-package it however you like. This is mired in racial stereotyping and segregation. One ethnicity is being separated from another. Who started it, or how you wanna frame it or excuse it is basically irrelevant. In the end you end up with the same result; Further separation of human beings poised by cultural vacuums of perception.
Good reasons or arguments for it, doesn't absolve from the unintended long term consequences of doing it. I guess this is something I'm arguing on more of a philosophical plane, than on a specific he-did/they-did blaming semantic.


You cannot stereotype large groups of people based on their pigment, no matter who they are, but it's what is being done... In a institution for higher learning. It doesn't matter who started it, but that it has to stop.
 
The difference is one group deciding upon itself to voluntarily leave campus, and then that group 'asking' another group to leave campus. He outlined that difference in the email.

How is it not relevant when his objection led to the confrontation between him and the students?

Yes, he outlined his objection in the email but it doesn't seem to be relevant to the situation.

Holding the workshop for white people off campus for once isn't​ some great offense. The propose of it is pretty clear - to make white students and faculty think about racial discrimination and what people of color go through every day.

The professor should be angry! But instead of channeling his anger towards students, maybe he should channel it towards systemic racism instead. But nope, gotta go on Tucker Carlson and complain about the kids.
 

Yeoman

Member
That doesn't sound relevant to what actually happened. White people weren't forced to go to the off campus workshop this year any more than people of color were forced to go to it in year's past.
No, you're misunderstanding the whole situation.
Every year for the last 20 or so years minorities at Evergreen have voluntarily chosen to not attend college on a certain day. The purpose is to show how important they are to society and how things would grind to a halt without them.

The idea of this is modelled after the play by Douglas Turner Ward - hence they named it after the Day of Absence.

The difference this year was that the committee decided that instead of minorities choosing not to turn up in order show how valuable they were, they decided that so called white people should be encouraged not to show up instead.

Professor Wienstein's email sums up the situation perfectly.
 
No, you're misunderstanding the whole situation.
Every year for the last 20 or so years minorities at Evergreen have voluntarily chosen to not attend college on a certain day. The purpose is to show how important they are to society and how things would grind to a halt without them.

The idea of this is modelled after the play by Douglas Turner Ward - hence they named it after the Day of Absence.

The difference this year was that the committee decided that instead of minorities choosing not to turn up in order show how valuable they were, they decided that so called white people should be encouraged not to show up instead.

Professor Wienstein's email sums up the situation perfectly.

Every year there are workshops off campus for POC students and workshops on Campus for white students...

The suggestion was flipping the workshop locations.
 
Did he actually release students names? Or were they simply revealed as part of the medias investigation into the story

No, but students were publicized because this professor went to the media. If he hadn't, I doubt anything like spray-painted swastikas on campus buildings happen.

This professor made an irresponsible choice and frankly he should lose his job. Not because of his initial objection (which I disagree with), but because of what he did after. This could have easily been settled on campus through the proper channels.
 

Future

Member
He's absolutely to blame. Going on tucker Carlson and rallying the media around him is disgusting. You don't think it's a tiny bit suspicious that faculty also signed a letter of support for the students?

That's what this is about. If he went on that show, essentially he was the one turning on his own since it is completely one sided in liberal hate
 

Trokil

Banned
The suggestion was flipping the workshop locations.

It was a demand not a suggestion.

No, but students were publicized because this professor went to the media. If he hadn't, I doubt anything like spray-painted swastikas on campus buildings happen.

So never ever say something critical is the solution, just nod to everything everyone says because you can never ever predict what is happening.
 

Chumly

Member
No, you're misunderstanding the whole situation.
Every year for the last 20 or so years minorities at Evergreen have voluntarily chosen to not attend college on a certain day. The purpose is to show how important they are to society and how things would grind to a halt without them.

The idea of this is modelled after the play by Douglas Turner Ward - hence they named it after the Day of Absence.

The difference this year was that the committee decided that instead of minorities choosing not to turn up in order show how valuable they were, they decided that so called white people should be encouraged not to show up instead.

Professor Wienstein's email sums up the situation perfectly.
It's very clear that you yourself misunderstand the day. The college holds workshops both on campus and off campus for the last 20 years. This isn't just about not attending class
 
Link? I haven't seen him mention any names of students in any articles or podcasts/interviews (I have only watched tucker Carlson and rogan podcast)

It doesn't need to be names. Once faces are out there, some places will run wild and find out everything else. It's probably not especially hard given the college the students attending is known.

So never ever say something critical is the solution, just nod to everything everyone says because you can never ever predict what is happening.

Or just go through proper channels instead of bringing the right-wing media and its audience into it?
 

Moff

Member
if this was voluntary anyway then I have no idea why the reaction to his completely reasonable e-mail was answered with a witch hunt, aggressive harrassment, constant bullying and demands to fire him. it just seems incredibly insane.
 
All of it is voluntary. The request was swap the locations. That's what it all was.


Someone mentioned that the PoC group said their white allies should leave the campus for the day, implying that if people 'choose' not to, they were viewed as opponents. He mentioned he thought people were going to be stigmatised if they didn't comply
 

Trokil

Banned
All of it is voluntary. The request was swap the locations. That's what it all was.

Let's try it again.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...rgreen-state-students-demand-firing-professor

"There is a huge difference between a group or coalition deciding to voluntarily absent themselves from a shared space in order to highlight their vital and underappreciated roles (the theme of the Douglas Turner Ward play Day of Absence, as well as the recent Women's Day walkout), and a group encouraging another group to go away," Weinstein wrote. "The first is a forceful call to consciousness, which is, of course, crippling to the logic of oppression. The second is a show of force, and an act of oppression in and of itself."

Also if it was just a suggestion and everybody could decide for him- or herself why the demanding tone and why the protest against people who did not follow the "suggestion".

if this was voluntary anyway then I have no idea why the reaction to his completely reasonable e-mail was answered with a witch hunt, aggressive harrassment, constant bullying and demands to fire him. it just seems incredibly insane.

He had a different opinion on something and also dared to share it. A lot of people see different opinions as the same thing as a personal insult.

Or just go through proper channels instead of bringing the right-wing media and its audience into it?

What channels? People were screaming at him, threatening him, police told him that they can not protect him. What channels?
 

Kite

Member
Of course not. He magically got pissed when the workshops for white people got moved off campus. I'm surprised that he didn't object every year prior to the minority workshops being held off campus. I mean he's a true progressive.
.. lol wtf is this post, it's not hard to figure out that minority groups voluntarily holding workshops off campus is fine since it is their choice, but trying to tell white students they shouldn't come on campus is dumb as shit.
 

Tagg9

Member
All that I've read so far indicates that this professor is opposed to measures that create equity. This letter is another example of that. So, for all intents and purposes, this professor is as progressive as the majority of people in this very thread; as in, not very progressive at all, especially if THIS is what's got you all riled up. Because he isn't asking for reason, logic and proper justice. What he's asking for is order, and for his boat to not be rocked. He mentions that it was a voluntary move to have White students leave campus for a day, so clearly the student body doesn't have an issue with it. The fact that he chose to go public with it and do interviews with Joe "Tolerant Left" Rogan to make himself into some sort of a victim probably put this shit over the top. He's actively speaking out against his own students for something they agreed to do, and gaining publicity for it.

So, sincerely, fuck you from the bottom of my heart if you're in here chastising these students for calling this professor out for his frankly weak-ass beliefs and so-called "progressive" stances. And fuck you even more for suggesting that compromising with people that literally want to see me and people like me hanging from trees, is somehow the way that the real world should work.

I am still curious why you think Weinstein opposes equity, and in particular which part of the letter you think proves this.

I'll be using the following definition of equity here: "Equity is giving everyone what they need to be successful". How does forcing white students to remain off campus for a day help them to be more successful? For that matter, how does that segregation help the minorities or POC that remain on campus succeed? All it does is further divide us by reinforcing the idea that it's a good thing to separate ourselves into distinct racial groups. And if you are going to mention the fact that it's just a reversal of this so-called Day of Absence, it is most definitely not - the key difference being that POC voluntarily excused themselves from campus on that day as opposed to strongly suggesting that white people not show unless they want to be labelled racist.

Also, even if you disagree with the professor's letter, he was clearly open to having a conversation about it with the protesting students but they refused to hear him out. It is also extremely disingenuous to suggest that Weinstein or anyone involved in this wants to see black people "hanging from trees". That kind of unnecessary hyperbole is what lead to the escalation of events in the first place.
 
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