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When the Left Turns on Its Own (NYT Opinion)
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
lol, got his attention huh.
too bad it triggered his "if then...racism" subroutines.
edit: the kids in the video though...no. that operation I wouldn't sanction. But it looks like the Day without white people...probably need more info on that. I didn't expect to see so many white faces in the video...the video that was supposed to be of the students "threatening" the professor...mostly white faces.
I think this op ed is well, they have their opinion, but even they way they describe this event and try to defend the guy and make their case is kind of 'heavy on the framing and light on the facts' confusing.
too bad it triggered his "if then...racism" subroutines.
edit: the kids in the video though...no. that operation I wouldn't sanction. But it looks like the Day without white people...probably need more info on that. I didn't expect to see so many white faces in the video...the video that was supposed to be of the students "threatening" the professor...mostly white faces.
I think this op ed is well, they have their opinion, but even they way they describe this event and try to defend the guy and make their case is kind of 'heavy on the framing and light on the facts' confusing.
Yeah, that video is not a good look. It shows a calm professor trying to talk to his students and have an actual debate about something I consider worth debating being shouted at without pause. Then again, I see him giving interviews to people like Tucker Carlson and co. in the recommended videos soooooo that's not great either.
It sounds like some students are more or less doxxing other students [those defending the professor] online.
EDIT: The article doesn't make it clear what people actually do when they don't show up for the day of absence. If it involves basically missing out on a day of classes, something most students are likely paying for, then that's kinda fucked [to want other students to do].
Phrozenflame500
Member
Yeah some of the college campus liberal groups are... not the greatest. They actively make liberalism look worse to moderates.
they wanted him fired, so obviously his safety was in danger. woo graffiti at a liberal arts college.
they probably needed to go into that a bit more instead of their "in defense of the gall" shpil.
moderates need to consider how they look.
oh yeah, they would be forced to waste their parents money because of "the implication". that damned implication...
they probably needed to go into that a bit more instead of their "in defense of the gall" shpil.
moderates need to consider how they look.
oh yeah, they would be forced to waste their parents money because of "the implication". that damned implication...
Up here in the Seattle area it is getting quite a bit of notice.
One interesting thing will be the future financial and enrollment implications. Look at Missouri which is dealing with massive budget and enrollment issues now. They are having to close multiple dorms and fire hundreds of employees. Faculty also don't want to go there and they are having issues in retention.
Think about it. What parent wants to send their student there? Either you view it is a racist cesspool (likely true for MU) and/or you see the unnerving instability that can impede your education (cancelation of classes, professors trying to assault student journalists, etc.).
One interesting thing will be the future financial and enrollment implications. Look at Missouri which is dealing with massive budget and enrollment issues now. They are having to close multiple dorms and fire hundreds of employees. Faculty also don't want to go there and they are having issues in retention.
Think about it. What parent wants to send their student there? Either you view it is a racist cesspool (likely true for MU) and/or you see the unnerving instability that can impede your education (cancelation of classes, professors trying to assault student journalists, etc.).
Why can we weed out the bad eggs on both extremes, but so called moderates believe anything they hear?
Phrozenflame500
Member
We can?
AbsolutBro
Member
not sure I understand what you mean by this.
John Kowalski
Banned
Well, isn't the point of this liberal direction the renouncing of group cohesion in favour of individual merit? So in that sense people are not turning on their own (or, conversely, working towards a collective good), but more so affecting the merit of the individual rather than shedding him from their own group (and indeed it seems to me that the accusations are done in such a way that suggest the offender has revealed himself part of a another group of people, almost as though belonging to a group were the offence itself).
At least that's my layman's interpretation of what's going on.
At least that's my layman's interpretation of what's going on.
Seth Enosh
Member
The school's chief of police told him his safety would be in danger on campus. Seems he took the word of the police chief seriously.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-campus-mob-came-for-meand-you-professor-could-be-next-1496187482
I was not expecting to hold my biology class in a public park last week. But then the chief of our college police department told me she could not protect me on campus. Protestors were searching cars for an unspecified individuallikely meand her officers had been told to stand down, against her judgment, by the college president.
it seems like the idea is an asking. They ask. they don't say hey whitey, come to class we beat your ass. But of course this is described as oppression with implied violence all over. At a it seems majority white liberal college.
the ask? you know? the concept of communion, supplication, cooperation? No?
well fuck.
that's also dumb. They could just disagree. He disagreed, they disagree, "Let it be known", and end it there. I mean the spirit of protest is great, but temper it and use it.
All of this could have been solved with a pubilc square bulletin board post.
the ask? you know? the concept of communion, supplication, cooperation? No?
well fuck.
that's also dumb. They could just disagree. He disagreed, they disagree, "Let it be known", and end it there. I mean the spirit of protest is great, but temper it and use it.
All of this could have been solved with a pubilc square bulletin board post.
freethoughtbubble
Member
For those new to the topic, we had a general thread on the events at Evergreen College three days ago.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1383189
It looks like somewhat of a complicated mess. Based on what I've read so far, I'm tempted to say that the students are going overboard and that it really is a case of the left eating itself as NYT puts it, but context and unbiased takes seem in short supply.
Edit: and yeah, Modbot killed it because of that fact.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1383189
It looks like somewhat of a complicated mess. Based on what I've read so far, I'm tempted to say that the students are going overboard and that it really is a case of the left eating itself as NYT puts it, but context and unbiased takes seem in short supply.
Edit: and yeah, Modbot killed it because of that fact.
entremet
Member
Shorter sentences, bro. This is very muddy.
John Kowalski
Banned
get lietrate
It's not a question if you attack anyone who anwers "I don't think that's a great idea"
entremet
Member
I understand it, but you're making me work too hard.
Consider the reader
You make interesting points, but remember this is a very diverse board, ESLs, etc.
that video really lowers my expectations as far as the whole threats of attack from violent students thing.
I like the initial idea that he disagreed with?
It looks like the actual "askers" (the black student group) aren't the "attackers" I'm assuming. The "attackers" appear to be the "supporters". and I've said before that they aren't really helping.
dammit. i stepped in some damn re-thread.
I like the initial idea that he disagreed with?
It looks like the actual "askers" (the black student group) aren't the "attackers" I'm assuming. The "attackers" appear to be the "supporters". and I've said before that they aren't really helping.
dammit. i stepped in some damn re-thread.
Your writing is poor.
Dude. Your second sentence is a complete run on, split over no less than two parentheses -
which cover three quarters of it to boot. Less is more, man.
timetokill
Banned
The rush to have people fired over stuff like this is pretty awful.
Yeah I agree with this.
John Kowalski
Banned
I understand it, but you're making me work too hard.
Consider the reader
You make interesting points, but remember this is a very diverse board, ESLs, etc.
I know, it's my second language too, but it's late and I'm tired. I'll try to avoid writing that way.
Oh now I feel bad, just thought you were being pretentious. Sorry on my part.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Cool. I disagree with it personally but reasonable people can do that about the issue. It sounded like you were agreeing with the student response (all of it) although your edit suggests that you don't condone some of the more extreme conduct.
There is a militancy with new generations when it comes to discovering their politics. They think they are the first to ever have such idea's and if you do not agree with their new found world view then you are the enemy.
The problem developing is there is no more middle ground. If you do not meet their "new" ideas and accept them then you have to be purged. Under no circumstance should Students etc. be required to listen to genocidal talk etc. from White Supremacists or any other type who is preaching a superiority or destruction there is no conversation to be had there.
However Political Disagreement is fundamental to a free society and this wave of destroy anyone who doesn't agree 100% is not a positive thing
The problem developing is there is no more middle ground. If you do not meet their "new" ideas and accept them then you have to be purged. Under no circumstance should Students etc. be required to listen to genocidal talk etc. from White Supremacists or any other type who is preaching a superiority or destruction there is no conversation to be had there.
However Political Disagreement is fundamental to a free society and this wave of destroy anyone who doesn't agree 100% is not a positive thing
I read an interesting article in Outline recenty about this weird phenomenon.
https://t.co/kB3rprKo6N?amp=1
It basically suggests that a lot of journalists are vulnerable to nostalgia and can't help themselves by reliving their own campus glory days. Add in a mix of this being fodder for alt-right moutpieces and voilà; instant news storm.
entremet
Member
I was messing with you, bro. You're my boy. But yeah, shorter sentences are better. I parsed your meaning and it's relevant to the topic, so clarifying it would help.
entremet
Member
Part of the reason this gets focus is because encountering complete jerks interested primarily in exerting their own dominance when exploring on-campus liberal advocacy is a pretty common occurrence. These people have always been there, will always be there, but now w/ the internet, their toxic ideas and behavior are no longer contained to college campuses and have a much louder megaphone (to everyone's detriment.)
AbsolutBro
Member
So the fucking college president told the cops to stand down and not protect this professor? What the fuck?
The president is trying to save his own ass.
It's undoubtedly a tough spot. Don't fire the professor and the protestors might start asking for your head. Fire the professor and you have legitimized the protest group's power and it may be your own head next to roll.
AbsolutBro
Member
Students were literally hunting for the professor. Want to talk about hostile work environment? He should sue the shit outta the whole place, protecting him is just as much the police's job as it is to protect the students.
superdeluxe
Member
There was a video of students pressing him to allow students to turn in late homework, and he gave in meekly.
I agree with you, but the president is purely in self-preservation mode at this point.
superdeluxe
Member
What's your point? That this is okay because other bad things happen, so we should be okay with it? 🤔
I can imagine reasonable people disagreeing about the protest in question.
I can imagine reasonable people having concerns over the professor's remarks.
I cannot imagine any reasonable person advocating to fire the professor or failing to condemn the threats of violence against him.
I can imagine reasonable people having concerns over the professor's remarks.
I cannot imagine any reasonable person advocating to fire the professor or failing to condemn the threats of violence against him.
RoninChaos
Member
It's the left's version of a RINO. These purity tests are fucking ridiculous.
Seeing as how I had this professor for two terms - which at Evergreen that means I have 32 credits from him, so I know him pretty well - I think I'm in better position to discuss this than most on this board. I ended up leaving the school after one year for a number of reasons (the closed-minded nature of a large portion of the student body being one of them), and in retrospect, I'm lucky that I did because a degree from this college isn't going to have all that much value after this debacle.
First, let me say this: there's not a racist bone in the guy's body. As he would tell you himself, that doesn't mean he isn't ignorant of how life is for a black person, or a latino, or any other minority (just as he's ignorant to what life is like for a pro athlete, or an actor, etc.), but if he has any prejudice based on arbitrary factors like skin color or gender, I certainly wasn't able to detect it. This is a guy deeply committed to the values of equality and fairness, and I've heard him explicitly state, in great detail and on many different occasions, that our institutions - whether intentional or not - are set up in a way that obviously gives minorities the short end of the stick.
It says a lot that almost none of his former students are on the side of the protesters. Any reasonable person who's spent significant time hearing his ideas would laugh at the idea that he's in any way teaching or promoting racism in his classes. The protesters have absolutely no leg to stand on here (you might disagree with what he said in the e-mail, but to call it racist, or even call for his job? Fucking absurd) and I suspect that vast majority of them haven't even bothered to look into what he said, instead just hearing what their fellow students are saying about him and joining the mob.
Do these students look reasonable to you in any way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg
The worst part about all of this is it's a right-winger's fantasy; clueless millennial students accuse professor of being racist, and call for his job for daring to have a polite disagreement about a school policy. It's an awful look.
First, let me say this: there's not a racist bone in the guy's body. As he would tell you himself, that doesn't mean he isn't ignorant of how life is for a black person, or a latino, or any other minority (just as he's ignorant to what life is like for a pro athlete, or an actor, etc.), but if he has any prejudice based on arbitrary factors like skin color or gender, I certainly wasn't able to detect it. This is a guy deeply committed to the values of equality and fairness, and I've heard him explicitly state, in great detail and on many different occasions, that our institutions - whether intentional or not - are set up in a way that obviously gives minorities the short end of the stick.
It says a lot that almost none of his former students are on the side of the protesters. Any reasonable person who's spent significant time hearing his ideas would laugh at the idea that he's in any way teaching or promoting racism in his classes. The protesters have absolutely no leg to stand on here (you might disagree with what he said in the e-mail, but to call it racist, or even call for his job? Fucking absurd) and I suspect that vast majority of them haven't even bothered to look into what he said, instead just hearing what their fellow students are saying about him and joining the mob.
Do these students look reasonable to you in any way?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO1agIlLlhg
The worst part about all of this is it's a right-winger's fantasy; clueless millennial students accuse professor of being racist, and call for his job for daring to have a polite disagreement about a school policy. It's an awful look.
Jon Arbuckle
Neo Member
Down here in the Olympia area it's being discussed quite frequently both at my work and between friends and family. Pretty divided opinions over it but everyone seems to be in agreement that things need to calm down.
It's been brought to the legislature before and gone nowhere but I guess a bill has been introduced in the special session to cut state funding for the college and force it to privatize. http://mynorthwest.com/650230/manweller-evergreen-state-college-bill/