Karsticles
Member
This is like something out of Anthem. When a book I considered a parody manifests into reality, that worries me.
Wow.
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When the Left Turns on Its Own (NYT Opinion)
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I'm glad to see a good source that provides a clearer look at what happened here than the mess that was the last thread. The professor is completely in the right and his logic is sound, showing he genuinely wants to deconstruct the campus' racial politics and determine whether the shift in how The Day of Absence was to be done would actually promote positive racial awareness. While you can argue that he was a bit callous and not compassionate to the plight of his student body, but I find it hard to find fault in his views, as expressed both in the email and the video. That being said I don't think it was necessarily a good decision to publish the email as he did and he probably should have gotten a better handle on the campus' mood before sending out something that would, regardless of the validity of its content, incite fierce debate and genuine hurt.
There's something about college campuses that makes any scandal with political tones super controversial and makes everyone go crazy. My alma mater recently decided to not recognize an alt-right group and the tiny portion of a liberal-arts school that browses /pol/ went wild. The group, of course called Students for Free Thought, was denied recognition because they did not do a whole bunch of requirements, wanted to keep the group's membership secret, and because there was already a group that hosted sessions for bipartisan discussion. But the group, which brought in students from another school that had arranged a visit from Milo, managed to claim that the group was not recognized because they were white. Since then members of the group have been posting all kinds of hateful messages around campus and the campus' mood is worse than ever. All because alt right idiots thought they could blatantly not fulfill basic requirements and coast to receive recognition as a campus organization. Many of the students opposed to the group went crazy as well and threw out largely baseless charges of verbal assault (if that's even a thing?) and harassment without pausing to question whether everything they claimed was true.
There's something about college campuses that makes any scandal with political tones super controversial and makes everyone go crazy. My alma mater recently decided to not recognize an alt-right group and the tiny portion of a liberal-arts school that browses /pol/ went wild. The group, of course called Students for Free Thought, was denied recognition because they did not do a whole bunch of requirements, wanted to keep the group's membership secret, and because there was already a group that hosted sessions for bipartisan discussion. But the group, which brought in students from another school that had arranged a visit from Milo, managed to claim that the group was not recognized because they were white. Since then members of the group have been posting all kinds of hateful messages around campus and the campus' mood is worse than ever. All because alt right idiots thought they could blatantly not fulfill basic requirements and coast to receive recognition as a campus organization. Many of the students opposed to the group went crazy as well and threw out largely baseless charges of verbal assault (if that's even a thing?) and harassment without pausing to question whether everything they claimed was true.
Lord Frieza
Member
I've read through this twice and I still don't feel like I have a good grasp of the situation
Everytime someone posts something like this, it is more embarrassing. We need to stop worrying about fueling the right. They don't need fuel. Even if there's nothing, they'll just make shit up. The left needs to stop caring so damn much what the right thinks.
Everytime someone posts something like this, it is more embarrassing. We need to stop worrying about fueling the right. They don't need fuel. Even if there's nothing, they'll just make shit up. The left needs to stop caring so damn much what the right thinks.
TheGameshark
Member
The Video is embarrassing and the school president is a joke. The fact that you can't guarantee one of your teacher's safety while they're teaching tells me you shouldn't be president.
The protestors are obviously free to disagree, but yeah I don't see how any of this was in any way necessary.
King Tubby
Member
These kids are idiots. This shouldn't be tolerated by the campus.
Thanks for your input. Also the school won't be remembered for this, these kinds of controversies always get forgotten after a year or so.
I'd suggest that this kerfuffle should be treated more as an indication of how groups on Evergreen's campus are in need of exterior leadership rather than just writing them off as stupid and foolish. The students are clearly passionate and ready to fight for their rights, but absolutely unaware of how to effectively create the change they want to see in the world. Campus groups, especially at small schools, tend to lack consistent, experienced leadership within the student body and struggle to keep those with a wider view as part of student organizations. With almost the entire student body turning over every four years, groups lose a little bit of collective knowledge every year, and small schools tend to not have the resources to effectively stop this experience atrophy which is why most of these stories come out of small schools rather than large state schools. It's why we need to develop stronger links between college groups and their counterparts beyond campus, because all of this energy that could, and should, be directed towards positive purposes is wasted on purity tests and unprofessional, ineffective methods of protest for protest's sake.
Don't simply count out these students, they need dispassionate guidance more than anything or these kinds of foolish, counterproductive controversies will just continue to happen.
Thank you for your input, it means a lot hearing that from one of his students. I listened to an interview with him earlier today, and I would argue that the man's ethics and moral compass is beyond fucking reproach.
I wish people would stop referring to this in political terms (left turns on its own, this is an alt-right wet dream, etc.) and just judge the situation based on the facts alone. And from where I'm standing, that means holding the students accountable for the completely unnecessary attacks on his character, and the way they've essentially taken control of the school.
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Almost attended Evergreen myself for their film program, didn't know about any of these current issues until today. Read through this thread and not a few minutes after saw that he was just on Rogan's podcast today. Wow this really blew up, did a double take at his name as the guest after having read this. Gonna watch now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4Y87idawk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4Y87idawk
Amibguous Cad
Member
I don't see what's so terrible about the video - campus protests involving chanting, gatherings, emotional speakers all seems like par for the course, and freedom of speech. Calling for a crackdown on them inthe name of free speech sounds, uh, self-defeating.
It's no call for harassment, or trying to get the guy fired, though, and I think the professor was perfectly within his rights to do so. Hopefully he has tenure.
It's no call for harassment, or trying to get the guy fired, though, and I think the professor was perfectly within his rights to do so. Hopefully he has tenure.
The Evergreen faculty posted a statement of solidarity with the protestors this morning, declaring their intent to prosecute Bret:
https://i.imgur.com/ZV4FcqZ.png
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zwPLnekTcjlmwO_0IyS7qF33sa40ufi2zAMEP-MU3IE/edit
They are trying to prosecute him for going on a Talk Show and defending himself against the case that he is a racist
https://i.imgur.com/ZV4FcqZ.png
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zwPLnekTcjlmwO_0IyS7qF33sa40ufi2zAMEP-MU3IE/edit
They are trying to prosecute him for going on a Talk Show and defending himself against the case that he is a racist
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't think the professor's actions were racist, at least in the way we normally mean it when assigning blame
I also don't think the students idea about excluding white students for a day was in any way out of line frankly.
I think the students frustration is justified. I think that choosing this professor as the locus of that anger is probably not.
I also don't think the students idea about excluding white students for a day was in any way out of line frankly.
I think the students frustration is justified. I think that choosing this professor as the locus of that anger is probably not.
starchild excalibur
Member
This whole situation seems crazy to me. It feels so bizarre that the e-mail posted earlier was in essence a powder keg for many people. I'm watching him on Joe Rogan now and I still feel like I'm missing some x factor that somehow transforms what Weinstein said into something viewed as racist by the people in the videos posted earlier.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I look forward to reading the article about the right turning on the country and minorities and shitting on their own paper principles.
metalslimer
Member
To be perfectly honest I don't see anything wrong with the what was originally proposed as an interesting experiment. The subsequent escalation though....whew. They need to calm their asses down.
That all being said it's interesting that stories like this and stories about how college republicans feeling isolated are so in vogue now when there are racist acts and discrimination constantly occurring on college campuses.
That all being said it's interesting that stories like this and stories about how college republicans feeling isolated are so in vogue now when there are racist acts and discrimination constantly occurring on college campuses.
excelsiorlef
Member
If you go back to the old thread I pointed out this is not just about that one day.
There's still a lot of context still missing from this.
There's still a lot of context still missing from this.
I can see why people think that, but it's not. I live in Columbia and it's basically an island of blue in a sea of red. Nearly all of our local politicians are Democrats.
Trigonometrize.
Member
Because it's half perhaps genuine grievances and half just bizarre shit. At 6:04, it seems like he does some very basic hand gestures while speaking and the crowd borderline erupts.
Well, certainly there was nothing wrong with it from an initial point of view. Nicely saying that white people not attending will be viewed as a sign of protest is fine. As long as there was no push to get white students not to come from the school or students themselves, I have 0 problems with it.
Where I do see fault is if said kids were pressured into not attending, or looked down upon for showing up on that day. The problem is I think it's pretty easy to slip from the first situation to the second. I think (from my view of the situation with little info) that is what happened.
Fair enough.
My main point was how it is easy to see why the enrollment has plummeted. You could be a potential African American student who sees other students claiming it is a racist place or you could be a potential white student and think it looks like the campus is unglued. Neither looks particularly attractive.
Jag
Member
You do know this is about a school on the complete opposite end of the country from Nova SE?
Zelenogorsk
Banned
I also live in Columbia and can second this. I'm pretty sure Boone County was one of only four counties in Missouri to go for Clinton over Trump (and Sanders won the primary there).
CoMo GAF represent! edit: not that Columbia being in a blue county means there isn't racism and problems with race at MU, but it is a different environment from the rest of Missouri.
It should be noted that there are 55 signatories out of 370 faculty members.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
They should be protesting this jackass for being a follower of Glenn Greenwald, a guy who routinely appears on Tucker Carlson's show to talk about how Russia bashing is deep state fake news and Putin is a victim.
Thank you for the referral. Had to go search for it, but did find the student newspaper article in the closed thread. Having read it, I can quite confidently say that Dr. Weinstein is more articulate, unprejudiced, well-meaning (though far more abstract I must say as a fellow biology doctoral holder) than pretty much anyone on this forum. Not sure you can get more liberal than this guy, maybe even to his own fault.
Vermillion
Banned
So many of the best ideas these days for progressives involve separation, huh?
Karsticles
Member
Do you have any actual information to contribute to give another perspective?
polyh3dron
Banned
That was for using a shit source, before the NYT ran it, and then after the thread got locked the first time, the poster just made a new thread pasting everything from said shit source without attributing it, trying to be slick.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Maybe if the left wasn't fractured, they'd be able to win elections against manchildren and cowards.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
What does this mean? Is everybody a Nazi to you?
IsntChrisL
Member
When you turn on your own for stupid ass shit like this, you're destined to lose. This guy has championed for you before your dad shot you out of his left nut and you want his livelihood taken over this bullshit? Get the fuck outta here.
And fuck that pussy ass President. He told the police to stop protecting one of their own professors over something like this? Fucking coward. These are 20 year old kids. They don't know shit yet.
This is a guaranteed way to lose every fucking election you pretend to care about. That video is embarrassing.
And fuck that pussy ass President. He told the police to stop protecting one of their own professors over something like this? Fucking coward. These are 20 year old kids. They don't know shit yet.
This is a guaranteed way to lose every fucking election you pretend to care about. That video is embarrassing.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
This is the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic and I still don't know what's going on at this school.
King Tubby
Member
How is it not out of line?
IsntChrisL
Member
It's not surprising that GAF is ignoring this shit. How hard is it to recognize the problems of the left? The right has a bullhorn screaming out their own hypocrisies and bullshit every single day. This is a real problem within liberal academic circles. Not just with this guy. It just so happens that he's pretty far left himself. But there are people in this thread saying "Watch your mouth unless you want to end up like the last guy." (edit: to be fair I'm grouping this sentiment with several people that are agreeing with the protesters). When you find yourself in that spot, you don't support free speech. You support freedom to say whatever you like. This guy couldn't be more on your side but fuck him, right? He had the nerve to say something different.
The right has become a huge joke. But fuck if they're not more organized and flexible than the extreme left.
The right has become a huge joke. But fuck if they're not more organized and flexible than the extreme left.
IsntChrisL
Member
Is this what passes for a retort these days? I couldn't give 2 shits about the racist far right or their ilk. They're morons. That doesn't mean the racist and dumbass actions of the far left are any more intelligent.
Krappadizzle
Member
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Pretty easy to be flexible in the right when their only requirement is to be scum in some way.
ModernBoxes
Banned
Agreed. I don't know if the far left spawned the far right, but they sure as hell make them stronger.
IsntChrisL
Member
They're pretty blatant about how little they care for their fellow man. But they're far less likely to attempt to destroy their peer over something they deem out of line. That's why they control the government right now and the left doesn't.
I don't like putting more effort into responses than they deserve
Your post is terrible and makes claims that are unproven and inaccurate, as well as making bizarre assumptions off of very little evidence while ignoring the context around that evidence, that's probably why you came to the dumb conclusion you came to
no, I just take issue with this being treated as a larger problem than it is
IsntChrisL
Member
That's a lot of words used to say absolutely nothing. "You're not worth the response! Except for this!"
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Do you have something to support that assertion? Because my own theory is the right controls the government because this country is full of bigots.
The whole point is it wasn't a lot of words!
IsntChrisL
Member
Republicans control the House, Senate, and Executive branch. That's with a party that doesn't know what it wants to be. There are Republicans reminiscent of 20 years ago that were quite socially progressive and there are Republicans that are ass-fucking backwards. And yet, these divided, dickhead motherfuckers are running shit right now. What's that say about the left?