Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
Does living in such a heavily populated nation drive a bit of the apathy? Does India have similar issues?
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In China, Video of Deadly Accident Reignites Debate Over Lack of Trust
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
I'd say it's the result of communist-era scarcity where in a fit of irony, the way to survive was to look after your own and fuck everybody else.
So many people linking the lack of help with the culture or some other 'potential scam' issue. There have been repeated studies showing that not helping someone in need is typical human behavior in any city. The denser the population, the less chance for help. Just the way it goes.
Read up on the Bystander Effect if you want, but it really does apply to any group. Heck, even studies in smaller communities have shown the same results.
Read up on the Bystander Effect if you want, but it really does apply to any group. Heck, even studies in smaller communities have shown the same results.
this is terrifying.
first thing anyone would do is call for help while getting closer to her, as she is totally defenseless is a very dangerous place. This is a no brainer.
edit: like, what the f*ck do you have to do in that particular moment more important than trying to save a life!?
In the US Good Samaritan laws prevent most of that crap. So long as you're not doing anything intentionally negligent, you won't hold liability for helping.
This is a culture issue. It wouldn't happen if the local laws didn't encourage it. You don't see this sort of stuff in Hong Kong or Taiwan. It's a mainland China thing.
Did you watch the video? That is not normal, especially in the USA.
Link to the studies?
you seem to argue that this happens at the same rate in every country
http://neuron4.psych.ubc.ca/~schaller/Psyc591Readings/GarciaWeaverMoskowitzDarley2002.pdf
http://www.ivcc.edu/uploadedFiles/_faculty/_pommier/Example Article(2).pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...s-on-peoples-reactions-to-norm-violations.pdf
Now, the spark that led to research into this was the case of Kitty Genovese, who was attacked in New York, screamed, called out for help, was heard, was seen, but was left on her own (and ultimately died from the attack). The original newspaper report overstated the number of people who witnessed the attack, and dramatized her dying alone in the gutter. This has caused detractors to claim that, since the newspaper got it wrong, all subsequent studies should be ignored.
I'm stating that whether or not the effect is present has nothing to do with a cultural component.
If you don't want to read any of the studies, there are plenty of videos of people trying to demonstrate the effect. (obviously these are put together as ratings pieces and not properly designed studies, but they work as examples towards basic understanding)
This is one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2DkgOI_cvw
This TED talk is also good on the subject, offering a more balanced approach to it, although he glosses over some key points in order to play down the effect. Specifically, he points out that the studies had cohorts who were instructed to be apathetic, causing the subjects to also respond with apathy. He also shows that the effect is easily broken if only one person steps up to help. All that is true, but studies without any cohorts have shown that finding that first person that will step forward to help is not always a given, and that, in every case that someone did help, it was after tens of people had already passed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufs8cKyzLvg
NoFaceNico
Member
I agree an amount of protection should exist for Good Samaritans but we need to properly educate people on what to do at an accident scene. Unless there's an immediate danger like a fire or oncoming train or something, leave the injured person there, call for help and wait. I doubt you have the equipment or expertise to make a meaningful difference and the time spent doing that is time you're robbing from EMS. People have been paralyzed for life because a witness to an accident was playing Superman and tossed the incapacitated person over their shoulder to move them a few feet.
The best way to help EMS is to help them do their job, not botch their job for them.
i'm amazed that the excuse for not helping her is the fear of, potentially, having to pay for her medical treatment or something.
Having a human being, injured, that is about to get run over by cars, in from of you, yet doing nothing about it? now that sounds scary. what are you going to do? Cross to the other side and not look back, knowing that you're leaving a f*cking human being behind? even worse, cross to the other side, then look back to see her get run over by the cars you didn't stop? like what the f*ck am i even writting...
if anything, they should be helping out of fear of getting caught, on camera, and recognized, for leaving someone that they could have easily helped die. I don't see how you shouldn't punish someone for that, specially if helping said person does not involve a serious risk.
Having a human being, injured, that is about to get run over by cars, in from of you, yet doing nothing about it? now that sounds scary. what are you going to do? Cross to the other side and not look back, knowing that you're leaving a f*cking human being behind? even worse, cross to the other side, then look back to see her get run over by the cars you didn't stop? like what the f*ck am i even writting...
if anything, they should be helping out of fear of getting caught, on camera, and recognized, for leaving someone that they could have easily helped die. I don't see how you shouldn't punish someone for that, specially if helping said person does not involve a serious risk.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Louis CK addressed this on Louie.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
That is one of the worst things I've ever seen. She probably lives if people come to her aide, but instead that SUV just barrels over her. Awful.
oh, and by the way, i didn't watch they video, just read the article and the description of what happened. I mean, why would i what that?
edit:
the reasoning is, apparently, that, if you help someone get to the hospital, you caused the damage, because no one would help another person under any other circunstance, or something.
edit:
the reasoning is, apparently, that, if you help someone get to the hospital, you caused the damage, because no one would help another person under any other circunstance, or something.
All of this talk about being sued for getting involved totally ignores that, if you watch the video, all anyone had to do to save this woman's life after she was originally hit was hold up two hands to the oncoming traffic to alert them that there was a body in the road. There is no way you could be sued for that, and it requires minimal effort. Instead everyone ignores it. No one even seems to think twice about helping.
This isn't a legal issue, it's a total disregard for human life issue, and it makes me sick.
This isn't a legal issue, it's a total disregard for human life issue, and it makes me sick.
makingmusic476
Member
Does China not have universal healthcare?
Patrick S.
Banned
In Germany, dash cams are forbidden AFAIK. Germans REALLY dislike being filmed or photographed without consent. Remember how they reacted to Google Streetview?
if you watched this video, would you attempt to stand in traffic there?
I hear what you're trying to say but your ideals aren't matching with reality
Patrick S.
Banned
The video is just disguising. What I think of Chinese society is... not too positive.
The nature of the help is different. If you try to apply medical aid or move them when they aren't in direct danger you are liable. In China you are liable even if all you did was stand in the road and made sure noone else ran over the injured.
Posted my response before I read your post. You're wrong based on how the article is worded.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
China don't care.
grap3fruitman
Banned
That second car. Jesus fucking Christ.
Patrick S.
Banned
Every single person you see in the video should go to jail. And in a civilized country, they would.
Probably the most devastating thing I've seen on the internet.
Could also be that the bystanders don't want to be part of aiding and abetting what they believe is a scammer. To them it may be just an everyday occurrence, like ignoring the crazy person on the street screaming about conspiracy theories or the end of the world.
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
As long as China has as much corruption as it does, I don't see this situation improving.
Uh, unless this happened in China, that's kind of a fucked up thing to say.
Uh, unless this happened in China, that's kind of a fucked up thing to say.
this is what i don't understand. They should, at least, want to help out of fear of getting caugth not doing so. Although, again, i simply read the description.
I think Chinas laws have to change first so people arent afraid to help at the scene of an accident.
Second, dont they have laws that make failure to stop after an accident a crime? That taxi driver should have his licence revoked and be put in jail, even if the woman was at fault. The article mentions compensation being paid, but thats it. What about criminal charges? The taxi driver is most responsible for the death. Had the driver stopped and put on hazard lights until police and ambulance arrived, traffic would have slowed and driven around.
At least the SUV driver stopped and got out, thought from the article, it seems they also left afterwards.
Second, dont they have laws that make failure to stop after an accident a crime? That taxi driver should have his licence revoked and be put in jail, even if the woman was at fault. The article mentions compensation being paid, but thats it. What about criminal charges? The taxi driver is most responsible for the death. Had the driver stopped and put on hazard lights until police and ambulance arrived, traffic would have slowed and driven around.
At least the SUV driver stopped and got out, thought from the article, it seems they also left afterwards.
LOL, no they wouldnt. Dont exaggerate.
Dice//
Banned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility
Best answer I got.
It's awful. Always try to remember this and similar incidents and try to be the change you want to see.
Best answer I got.
It's awful. Always try to remember this and similar incidents and try to be the change you want to see.
R10Neymarfan
Member
It sounds like Libertarian paradise not Communist
BobTheFork
Member
Every time this comes up Someone tells me that China's judicial system and the burden of proof is very different and you are not assumed innocent of things you are accused of.
Any truth to that?
Any truth to that?
TheChewyWaffles
Member
That is a mssed up society.
I understand hitting someone, and just driving away because you might think they're not hurt and were just trying to do an insurance scam, that happens all the time in China/Russia, so I get that part, but why would you just run over someone you saw laying down on the street? It's not the first time I've seen it happen, you guys remember when that toddler got run over twice? That's just plain out evil.
My wife literally just yesterday had to get off her bus because a lady got bumped by a bike in an intersection and refused to move sitting in traffic yelling stubbornly. It's really hard to tell who is really injured and who is scamming someone to touch them and give them a target to extract money from.
With this video evidence, yes they would. In the USA this is manslaughter at least.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Chinese society is full of scamming and it's not surprising the culture there is to be afraid of helping because of the potential of being scammed or held financially liable.
The solution is to actually address the rampant corruption in Chinese society but that's unlikely to ever happen so this is how it is.
The solution is to actually address the rampant corruption in Chinese society but that's unlikely to ever happen so this is how it is.
Aggelos
Member
Guys, we've seem oodles of videos like this coming from China on various shock sites (like bestgore et al).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestgore.com
Their apathy has reached a new level. Such a video isn't considered to be a shock at all when it comes from China. Such videos became something habitual. It's hard to tell what is going on with their social values.
But something that I could understand is that Chinese people are afraid of insurance scammers. Or to put to it in another way, they're sick and tired of them. Thus they might not even stop when they hit a human being on the road.
The taxi driver that hit the woman, didn't even flinch a bit and didn't stop to see what he just hit. He just continued his merry way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestgore.com
Their apathy has reached a new level. Such a video isn't considered to be a shock at all when it comes from China. Such videos became something habitual. It's hard to tell what is going on with their social values.
But something that I could understand is that Chinese people are afraid of insurance scammers. Or to put to it in another way, they're sick and tired of them. Thus they might not even stop when they hit a human being on the road.
The taxi driver that hit the woman, didn't even flinch a bit and didn't stop to see what he just hit. He just continued his merry way.
SentientStone
Member
Too pessimistic, things take time.
Patrick S.
Banned
Failure to help someone who had an accident is not a minor offense in my country. And we are talking about a grave accident where a person DIED because people didn't give a fuck about helping her. These people would get convicted of manslaughter through failure to help and get a fat fine, a criminal record, and a jail sentence of up to one year.