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Wonder Woman and the 5 Words That Saved DC Movies From Darkness

P

Penguin

Member
http://www.thewrap.com/dc-extended-universe-wonder-woman-geoff-johns/

After the gloominess of “Batman v Superman” and “Suicide Squad,” a team of DC executives and creatives looked for a new guiding philosophy. DC Entertainment president Geoff Johns told TheWrap they looked to the DC legacy and the qualities that first made people fall in love with superheroes.

“Get to the essence of the character and make the movies fun. Just make sure that the characters are the characters with heart, humor, hope, heroics, and optimism at the base,” said Johns.
Click to expand...

I mean not a ton here, and guess we'll see with Justice League, but very similar to what Johns promised with Rebirth and think delivered easily on that.
 
B

BlackGoku03

Member
That's a good goal to have. Doesn't seem like this was their mindset from the beginning, and I appreciate they were trying to do something different, but they aren't going to do well in the long run if they don't focus on what was quoted.

Either way, I'm game. Don't reboot, just do well going forward.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
Yeah, Superman's "growth" as a character in the DCU has just been an absolute mess. He was not a type of guy you want to root for or be inspired by. A serious superhero movie doesn't have to mean that it's completely absent of joy and hope.
 
A

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
Making superhero movies is so hard. Heroics? Who could have ever expected people wanted that out of superheroes? Fans are too fickle.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
Not far from the mantra of the creators of the Flash show (of which Geoff Johns was one).

I think Kreisberg said their three key elements were 'heart, humor, spectacle.'

Lights and Waves said:
Sorry Geoff Johns, I'm still giving the credit Patty Jenkins and Allan Heinberg.
Click to expand...

Even Patty credits the work she did with Johns.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
I like Superman serious. Having him interact with Plastic Man, Captain Marvel, Conner Kent, Myxyzptlk, the Legion of Superheroes or Kyle Rayner the Fun Green Lantern would be an interesting contrast though
 
G

gabbo

Member
BotoxAgent said:
Yeah, Superman's "growth" as a character in the DCU has just been an absolute mess. He was not a type of guy you want to root for or be inspired by. A serious superhero movie doesn't have to mean that it's completely absent of joy and hope.
Click to expand...

It's premise was sound, but it's execution makes him a character we can't cheer with while the in-film world is scared of him, only to eventually come around. Had they handled that aspect of Man of Steel better, we wouldn't be here.
 
D

DarthMasta

Member
I don't think Man of Steel was terrible, it just wasn't Superman. If it had been AlienMan, yeah, whatever.

BvS is just bad. Cool Batman though, but still no idea what Superman's about. Not that I think the alien from Man of Steel could ever be Superman, when your introduction to the planet is as a fugitive from a bunch of guys who come looking for you and murder a city, yeah, good luck becoming the hero that has the world thinking Lex Luthor is crazy.

Wonder Woman is great. The last CGI fight isn't good, but it's not enough to make me dislike the movie.
 
L

Lights and Waves

Member
Shaanyboi said:
Not far from the mantra of the creators of the Flash show (of which Geoff Johns was one).

I think Kreisberg said their three key elements were 'heart, humor, spectacle.'



Even Patty credits the work she did with Johns.
Click to expand...

I'm being hyperbolic, but I just don't want everyone to give Johns all the credit :p
 
K

Keym

Member
I don't see any of this in the upcoming Justice League so far from what they've shown, just some forced jokes here and there. Everything still looks dark and gloomy like some post-apoc world.
 
B

BossDarkseid

Member
Keym said:
I don't see any of this in the upcoming Justice League so far from what they've shown, just some forced jokes here and there. Everything still looks dark and gloomy like some post-apoc world.
Click to expand...

Wasn't JL in development pretty much straight after BvS?

I don't think Johns worked on it at all, while he did work on the story + script with Snyder/Jenkins etc (for Wonder Woman). I don't think anyone disagrees with you too much, most of the optimism after Wonder Woman is being ready to get knocked down again if JL is a dud. I'm just praying the final boss is more interesting than CGI army of Chitauri/UltronBots etc filled with Doomsday levels of "I can't even tell what is going on".

The invasion in the trailer sorta looks like that, but you can forgive it for being a war.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
Keym said:
I don't see any of this in the upcoming Justice League so far from what they've shown, just some forced jokes here and there. Everything still looks dark and gloomy like some post-apoc world.
Click to expand...
Yeah well they're fighting Darkseid's forces

Did anyone expect the Superfriends Darkseid?
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
Keym said:
I don't see any of this in the upcoming Justice League so far from what they've shown, just some forced jokes here and there. Everything still looks dark and gloomy like some post-apoc world.
Click to expand...

People were similarly superficial about Wonder Woman trailers from seeing the (appropriately) dark and gloomy World War setting.

MisterHero said:
Yeah well they're fighting Darkseid's forces

Did anyone expect the Superfriends Darkseid?
Click to expand...

we're getting,

eBZUh1X.jpg
Click to expand...
 
H

Hero_of_the_Day

Member
Anth0ny said:
well fuck me that's just about the antithesis of man of steel and bvs right there
Click to expand...

Yep. Hopefully this is the turning point for the universe.

Hope is the one I clung to after seeing Wonder Woman and talking to my brother about it. I know Batman is dark and gloomy, but he shouldn't be fucking hopeless. That was one of the things Nolan's movies nailed. Bruce still believed in people and thought Batman could inspire them to be better. I don't know what current Batman and Superman believe in other than killing everything.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Keym said:
I don't see any of this in the upcoming Justice League so far from what they've shown, just some forced jokes here and there. Everything still looks dark and gloomy like some post-apoc world.
Click to expand...

Appearance and tone aren't necessarily one and the same

Wonder Woman for the most part looks visually similar to Man of Steel, but have diff tones.

We haven't really seen anything "dark" in tone in JL trailer. Just dark in design.
 
Corpsepyre

Corpsepyre

Banned
I can understand why the US needs humour, hope, heroics right now, but it's not something that appeals a lot to me. I like my music and films dark. Superman, under Snyder's guidance, felt like he had dimensions to him as a character, and that's something I can't say about Singer's Reeve knockoff. I wouldn't mind some 'fun' and 'light' films like Aquaman going forward, but I want super high stakes at the very end, with a sense of loss permeating throughout. I'm from the Alan Moore school of comic books, unfortunately.
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
Anth0ny said:
well fuck me that's just about the antithesis of man of steel and bvs right there
Click to expand...
That sweet sweet mom and son moment that warped up that movie's view to me ...
smtsmtvlcsnap-2015-07-12-20h07m28s325.png


As for WW ... wow, people react well to a character who actually gives a shit about people and things. Who woulda thunk it?!?
 
B

Blader

Member
Corpsepyre said:
I can understand why the US needs humour, hope, heroics right now, but it's not something that appeals a lot to me. I like my music and films dark. Superman, under Snyder's guidance, felt like he had dimensions to him as a character, and that's something I can't say about Singer's Reeve knockoff. I wouldn't mind some 'fun' and 'light' films like Aquaman going forward, but I want super high stakes at the very end, with a sense of loss permeating throughout. I'm from the Alan Moore school of comic books, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Ironically, Alan Moore absolutely hates this take on superheroes!
 
Corpsepyre

Corpsepyre

Banned
Blader said:
Ironically, Alan Moore absolutely hates this take on superheroes!
Click to expand...

He was seminal in the dark ages of superheroes whether he likes it or not. Bringing heroes into a more grittier real world rather than pulling us, the readers, into their magical world
 
N

nicanica

Member
I didn't need 850 million dollars to tell you to make the 3 pinacle characters of DC comics stories about being super Heroes.

Fucking hell 10 mins of the Donner films has more heart than all 3
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
I would say that Wonder Woman hit most of that criteria. The only issue I really had with the movie is the somewhat muddled ending. But otherwise, it is good.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
That's literally the mantle of the CW shows, they have "heart, humor, spectacle" pinned up in the writer's room. Not that you'd be able to tell from this year's Flash, but still.
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
Not that I think that this direction is terrible, but the gloominess really didn't feel like what was wrong with the Batman stories.

I mean many of the best superhero stories are very dark.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
I look forward to seeing more hope and optimism in Justice League. If Wonder Woman is an indicator, they're finally on track.

I'm not feeling very hopeful or optimistic about it, though. Prove me wrong, DC. Please. I want to stop looking at Superman and feeling like he'd sooner beat me up than have a nice chat.
 
F

Fancyarcher

Member
It's a good thing to follow. More comic book films shouldn't act like their ashamed of their source material. Embrace the goofiness.
 
Alexander DeLarge

Alexander DeLarge

Member
I was enjoying the whole "what if superheroes were real? They'd be knocking down buildings, the streets would look like war zones and there'd be arguments on whether they're saviors or terrorists on CNN" thing DC was doing.

I enjoyed Wonder Woman but I liked BvS much more.
 
1

1044

Member
Could this be the end of Zack Snyder's DC Cinematic Murderverse? Find out next issue, true believers!

Actually, wouldn't it be interesting if they made 2 different universes for the movies to be in? Like all of the sudden Batman and Superman are nothing like their BVS portrayals in the next movie with no explanation at all. Then later down the line there's a crossover movie where the real DCEU heroes encounter their Snyderverse versions.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I'm pretty sure those words don't exist in the rest of the DCCU.

Alternatively the 5 words for BvS are:

Martha, Martha, Martha, Martha and Martha
 
R

ReiGun

Member
I'm over the word "fun" being used as a marker of quality. Suicide Squad is a "fun" movie that's booty. A movie trying to be "fun" ultimately means nothing.
 
F

firelogic

Member
Penguin said:
http://www.thewrap.com/dc-extended-universe-wonder-woman-geoff-johns/



I mean not a ton here, and guess we'll see with Justice League, but very similar to what Johns promised with Rebirth and think delivered easily on that.
Click to expand...

That was Snyder's mindset from the get-go though. Even BvS ends with
Superman making a supreme sacrifice to save humanity. The world that was shunning his existence. It ends with a changed Batman who wants to be better as a result of Superman's actions.
Plus, the Snyders are on record saying that by its very nature, Justice League would be a more optimistic/brighter/happier kind of movie. Justice League isn't going to be different in tone because of the outcry. It's going to be different in tone because that was always the plan.

I can't wait to see the reactions if the movie is praised. It'll be "Joss Whedon saved DC" or if it's still panned it'll be "Joss didn't have enough time to fix what Zack destroyed."
 
D

DarthMasta

Member
Alexander DeLarge said:
I was enjoying the whole "what if superheroes were real? They'd be knocking down buildings, the streets would look like war zones and there'd be arguments on whether they're saviors or terrorists on CNN" thing DC was doing.

I enjoyed Wonder Woman but I liked BvS much more.
Click to expand...

Should've called it BatMetal vs HopeMan instead of Batman vs Superman then...
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
As a person who liked Man of Steel and didn't have BvS, I can heartily endorse this.

The number one thing with DCEU Superman-- maybe the only thing-- is that he doesn't enjoy being a hero, and views it as a burden.

Superman can have a melancholy side, and has in the comics ever since the Silver Age, but it should not define him. It should be rooted in longing-- for a lost paradise, for being the last of his kind, for not being able to have a simple life-- but not for resenting the good that he does for the world.

BvS would have improved immensely if they showed Superman smiling a few times.
 
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