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[ZOONAMI]

A $15 PSU for a $200 1070?????

Pffffffffft
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is the best shit I've read all week

Meant to say 1060, and yes you can get a 15-20 psu that will work perfectly fine.

 

[Sniffynose]

The uhd drive can't really be skipped since that's a major feature. I still wish my PS4 Pro had one for the price I paid for the pos

 

[gafneo]

I get that you're joking but just for fun I will answer seriously. On one hand we have the X1X, a product that according to Microsoft will be sold at cost. It is manufactured by a big corporation which is taking advantage of economies of scale to sell it at the absolute lowest possible price six months from now. On the other hand we have a PC assembled by parts that are available at retail today by manufacturers who aim to make a profit directly from that retail sale.

The difference in price between those two products is a mere $100 or so. That is the price of a retail game and its season pass. For that price you can get X1X-like performance today, all the features of a full PC and free online multiplayer. If this comparison is supposed to show the tremendous value of an X1X compared to similar PC then I find that value to be unimpressive.

For PC, you need a virus protection membership that's roughly the cost of an xbox live membership. More essential than online since most games can be played offline on consoles. Joking aside, consoles are slowly becoming PCs so a few years down the road, no one will tell the difference. No one cares about walkmans anymore because Ipods merged all media into one device. All in One, hence the goal of the One in Xbox One.

 

[Magwik]

Meant to say 1060, and yes you can get a 15-20 psu that will work perfectly fine.

Find me a good 400W PSU that has good reviews and recommendations for $15.
You can't just throw numbers around that don't reflect the actual market. Hell a 1060 6GB is much more than just $200. That's the 3GB price range. That case also probably does not include any cooling solutions, so there's an additional cost.

 

[Stinkles]

Interested to see how it performs as a 4k blu ray player. My One S has been fantastic subjectively and I think it is weird to dismiss that feature as some articles do. It's actually a pretty big deal for a lot of people, myself included. It's by FAR the highest quality image I can watch on my 4k set and crushes most streams even with one gig FiOS.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Find me a good 400W PSU that has good reviews and recommendations for $15.
You can't just throw numbers around that don't reflect the actual market. Hell a 1060 6GB is much more than just $200. That's the 3GB price range. That case also probably does not include any cooling solutions, so there's an additional cost.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/469377/EL_Series_400W_ATX_Power_Supply

Case $21 includes fans http://www.microcenter.com/product/323929/V3_Black_Edition_ATX_Mid_Tower_Computer_Case

Stock CPU and GPU coolers are more than adequate.

So yeah $500-$550 out the door for a ryzen 5 and 1060 rig. Gpu slightly weaker but cpu magnitudes better. And you can do a whole lot more with a PC than you can with an Xbox.

 

[Doctre81]

Ya'll stole my xoxo. It's all good lol

 

[rodrigolfp]

Guessing he meant the 1060 6GB version, but even that starts at $240.

As much as I love PC gaming and don't really believe the XBOX will hit 4K/60 in many games, I have to concede it will end up looking a pretty impressive piece of hardware for the price.

not with that OS that does nearly nothing...

 

[Kittehkraken]

Find me a good 400W PSU that has good reviews and recommendations for $15.

430W EVGA, currently $19.99 after rebate.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Interested to see how it performs as a 4k blu ray player. My One S has been fantastic subjectively and I think it is weird to dismiss that feature as some articles do. It's actually a pretty big deal for a lot of people, myself included. It's by FAR the highest quality image I can watch on my 4k set and crushes most streams even with one gig FiOS.

It's of course a huge benefit for people who want it. It's just a niche market--people with 4K TVs who buy 4K UHD movies since they're near impossible to rent (not carried by Netflix, Redbox etc.).

I wasted too much money in my younger years buying DVDs and Blurays I've almost never re-watched, so I'm in no hurry to get a 4K TV. Don't care for gaming, streaming movies higher than 1080p movies would kill my data cap, and no 4K content on our cable plan yet.

 

[Sniffynose]

Stay safe Toronto/York/Durham gaffers, we just got a Tornado Warning =S

 

[Varna]

I'm surprised you can get so close already. Wasn't the Xbox 360/PS3 the only time this was hard to achieve?

We don't have any actual real world performance on the new Xbox right? 1060GTX system is mighty impressive at that price point.

 

[Freshmaker]

Guessing he meant the 1060 6GB version, but even that starts at $240.

As much as I love PC gaming and don't really believe the XBOX will hit 4K/60 in many games, I have to concede it will end up looking a pretty impressive piece of hardware for the price.

Yeah, I was mainly amused at the typo.

Though I'm kinda skeptical of that system hitting the performance targets that the XOX has demonstrated already.

That's kinda in the range of claiming I can just buy a Dell Optiplex i5 (3rd gen) system off Ebay for $150 then plop in a a 6GB 1060 (or a 580 should the bitcoin craze fade) for 4k gaming at a comparable price point.

It doesn't really hold up in application or in theory unless you make heavy concessions on the settings.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Yeah, I was mainly amused at the typo.

Though I'm kinda skeptical of that system hitting the performance targets that the XOX has demonstrated already.

That's kinda in the range of claiming I can just buy a Dell Optiplex i5 (3rd gen) system off Ebay for $150 then plop in a a 6GB 1060 (or a 580 should the bitcoin craze fade) for 4k gaming at a comparable price point.

It doesn't really hold up in application or in theory unless you make heavy concessions on the settings.

A ryzen 5 is better than a 3rd gen i5.

And yeah we would need some DF type comparisons once xox is out but a 1060 6gb can handle 4k 30 medium to high settings. 4k 60 if you tweak further, but my guess is any multiplats running 4k60 on an Xbox (and there will be very few even doing that), will be medium to lowish type pc settings.

 

[Aztechnology]

A ryzen 5 is better than a 3rd gen i5.

And yeah we would need some DF type comparisons once xox is out but a 1060 6gb can handle 4k 30 medium to high settings. 4k 60 if you tweak further, but my guess is any multiplats running 4k60 on an Xbox (and there will be very few even doing that), will be medium to lowish type pc settings.

Also a G4560 or G4620 would still work perfectly fine and outperform the Scorpio's CPU at ~$50-60

 

[SapientWolf]

If the bottle opener was relevant to the gaming aspect. Like you needed one to install games because plastic for jewel cases became a rare material after WWIII, so companies resorted to using recycled beer bottles.

Although I'm not sure how you'd enter a Steam key with it...

But once again, if we're talking non-gaming, there's a LOT a PC can do that modern consoles can't. Even without additional hardware. I can stream Twitch and YT at the same time while running an indie game in a small window beneath the control bar at nHD. Well that I guess technically counts as gaming, and so does multi-monitor support...

If you're going to argue that the PC isn't just a box that plays games then you have to apply that same logic to the XBX. It also supports Blu Ray playback so the equivalent PC would have a Blu Ray player as well.

 

[Rogan]

We don't have any actual real world performance on the new Xbox right?

This, I want to see the machine running.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Could the same be said for PS4 Pro? Curious.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

If you're going to argue that the PC isn't just a box that plays games then you have to apply that same logic to the XBX. It also supports Blu Ray playback so the equivalent PC would have a Blu Ray player as well.

edit: yeah 1:1 just doesn't work when you expect the PC to include the console's ancillary functions when the reverse can't be true

 

[Aztechnology]

If you're going to argue that the PC isn't just a box that plays games then you have to apply that same logic to the XBX. It also supports Blu Ray playback so the equivalent PC would have a Blu Ray player as well.

Yea going 1:1 is just never going to work. And that's the point anyway, if you like all the features that come with the Xbox One, go for it. But that's going to be what you get. If you want expanded features, an open environment and the ability to change your system in terms of both software and hardware go for PC. Even if you can't get quite the performance of an XOX, you'll probably be able to get very close, and exceed it later if you so choose.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Also a G4560 or G4620 would still work perfectly fine and outperform the Scorpio's CPU at ~$50-60

Yep and then you could put the savings towards a 1070 on sale for $300ish too.

Hell a 1080 was $390 a couple weeks ago on New egg.

People act like sales don't count for a PC build but the xox isn't out for months which gives you plenty of time to bargain Hunt a build.

 

[Aztechnology]

Yep and then you could put the savings towards a 1070 on sale for $300ish too.

Hell a 1080 was $390 a couple weeks ago on New egg.

People act like sales don't count for a PC build but the xox isn't out for months which gives you plenty of time to bargain Hunt a build.

The other day 980TI's were $199 on EVGA's site. That was a sweet deal.

 

[jroc74]

Ryzen 5 and board from microcenter $179
6gb 1060 $200
Psu $15
8gb ram $50
1tb hdd $30
Case $20
Linux

$494 total

Done

Uhd bluray isn't a realistic consideration as there isn't any pc software that plays it. A PC does x1000 things the Xbox can.

Factor in xbox live and youre really looking at a $700 build price too if you have the Xbox for a few years

8 gigs of ram, no disc drive at all, Linux...

C'mon.

Every build I see from sites do 8GB. Why?

If folks are gonna do that at least do 9 GB since it just had 1GB unlocked.

But it has 12GB of ram...

I think it's safe to say tho that a complete 1:1 part build is more than 500.

 

[Ehker]

8 gigs of ram, no disc drive at all, Linux...

C'mon.

Every build I see from sites do 8GB. Why?

If folks are gonna do that at least do 9 GB since it just had 1GB unlocked.

But it has 12GB of ram...

I think it's safe to say tho that a complete 1:1 part build is more than 500.

The video card has 6GB and the rest can go on 8GB. The total is 14GB, isn't that fair?

 

[Gormenghast]

There are always two aspects to consider that make these comparisons never work in practice:

1- PC hardware is more staggered. So usually at launch the console package is more convenient, but after a year or more it's the PC that offers more.

2- In any case PC hardware is more short lived. It's not raw numbers. Try running a game coming out today on equivalent specs at a console release, in many cases the PC spec will greatly underperform.

So, if you buy today PC hardware equivalent, two years later you'd see the console spec outperform your PC hardware because support dies off.

 

[LelouchZero]

There are always two aspects to consider that make these comparisons never work in practice:

1- PC hardware is more staggered. So usually at launch the console package is more convenient, but after a year or more it's the PC that offers more.

2- In any case PC hardware is more short lived. It's not raw numbers. Try running a game coming out today on equivalent specs at a console release, in many cases the PC spec will greatly underperform.

So, if you buy today PC hardware equivalent, two years later you'd see the console spec outperform your PC hardware because support dies off.

This is not true.

As I mentioned in another thread:

Digital Foundry are one of the content creators who have covered how PC hardware performs compared to console hardware, including in their 'We built a PC with PlayStation Neo's GPU tech' article in which they attempted to simulate the PS4's GPU performance with a R7 265 at 900MHz and came away with very interesting results. In which, GPU performance of the 'R7 265-powered PS4 surrogate' wasn't too far off from the console itself.

In our Face-Offs, we like to get as close a lock as we can between PC quality presets and their console equivalents in order to find the quality sweet spots chosen by the developers. Initially using Star Wars Battlefront, The Witcher 3 and Street Fighter 5 as comparison points with as close to locked settings as we could muster, we were happy with the performance of our 'target PS4' system. The Witcher 3 sustains 1080p30, Battlefront hits 900p60, SF5 runs at 1080p60 with just a hint of slowdown on the replays - just like PS4. We have a ballpark match, and we would expect to see similar on our 'Neo' set-up.

Star Wars Battlefront's Endor stage is a testing work-out for the original PS4, operating at 900p with a mixed bag of quality presets - and the 60-70fps we get running the game unlocked on our PC surrogate is broadly similar to what we would expect the console title to hand in were the v-sync lock disabled.

The sense that 1440p may be the optimal sweet spot for the Polaris 10 GPU is strengthened by our Street Fighter 5 testing, where we play back the same replay across multiple resolutions on our Polaris 10 set-up and at straight 1080p on the R7 265-powered PS4 surrogate. Medium settings is a direct match for the PS4 version here and not surprisingly, our base-level PS4 hardware runs it very closely to the console we're seeking to mimic.

Exclusives are where these machines truly shine, as more time and resources can be dedicated to optimizing the performance of the engine for the target platform, taking advantage of things such as Async compute can also see substantial gains as-well as specifically gearing the code for the target platform.

 

[MazeHaze]

There are always two aspects to consider that make these comparisons never work in practice:


2- In any case PC hardware is more short lived. It's not raw numbers. Try running a game coming out today on equivalent specs at a console release, in many cases the PC spec will greatly underperform.

So, if you buy today PC hardware equivalent, two years later you'd see the console spec outperform your PC hardware because support dies off.

I really don't think that's true. If you build an XOX spec PC right now, the XOX is not ever going to outperform it.


Edit: my pc build is a few years old and it's more powerful than the XOX, a system that isn't even out yet.

 

[jroc74]

The video card has 6GB and the rest can go on 8GB. The total is 14GB, isn't that fair?

So when a PC game has as a min requirement 8GB of ram, this is what they mean?

I thought the min ram requirement was the system ram.

Asking a serious question.

 

[AmFreak]

There are always two aspects to consider that make these comparisons never work in practice:

1- PC hardware is more staggered. So usually at launch the console package is more convenient, but after a year or more it's the PC that offers more.

Not true anymore since this gen, because they stopped selling hardware at a loose.
You could get ps4< pc hardware at the launch in Germany for ~400&#8364;.
The 500&#8364; price for the One was an outright joke if you hadn't any use for kinect.

2- In any case PC hardware is more short lived. It's not raw numbers. Try running a game coming out today on equivalent specs at a console release, in many cases the PC spec will greatly underperform.

Not true anymore.
You can still run current gen games on 8-10 year old cpu's and 5-6 years gpu's because these consoles were so low power even when they launched.

 

[Lister]

So when a PC game has as a min requirement 8GB of ram, this is what they mean?

I thought the min ram requirement was the system ram.

Asking a serious question.

XboneX buffer needs to be used to store game state AND rendering assets. On PC the video buffer stores rendering assets and system ram stores state and likely an asset cache.

The end result is that it's unlikely that you'll see any issues in games running at xbone levels and performance targets on pc with a system running 8 gigs of system ram plus 6 or more of vram.

 

[120v]

these things are fun but at a ~$500 budget i'd just call it a day and buy console. unless there were other factors than gaming

 

[Ehker]

So when a PC game has as a min requirement 8GB of ram, this is what they mean?

I thought the min ram requirement was the system ram.

Asking a serious question.

While the OS and recording game video feature will take up some resources, basically the games on the XB1X have 12GB RAM shared for the CPU and GPU (9GB for games) and the PC in this example has 8GB system RAM and 6GB that's tied to the GPU, for a 14GB total.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Meant to say 1060, and yes you can get a 15-20 psu that will work perfectly fine.

The last thing you should cheap out on is a PSU.

 

[Tygamr]

There are always two aspects to consider that make these comparisons never work in practice:

1- PC hardware is more staggered. So usually at launch the console package is more convenient, but after a year or more it's the PC that offers more.

2- In any case PC hardware is more short lived. It's not raw numbers. Try running a game coming out today on equivalent specs at a console release, in many cases the PC spec will greatly underperform.

So, if you buy today PC hardware equivalent, two years later you'd see the console spec outperform your PC hardware because support dies off.

I don't think that's true at all. You wouldn't be able to run evey game at ultra and expect the same level of performance that's seen on console, but if you adjust settings to a comparable level (to console)—either via in game menus or a config file, you can usually get close. Provided there aren't any PC specific performance bugs...

 

[Steel]

Your graph shows benchmarks for Tomb Raider (2013) not Rise of the Tomb Raider.

You're right my mistake. The 470 actually runs Rise of the Tomb raider at ultra(Higher than the PS4 settings-wise) as well as tomb raider 2013, more or less:

 

[LelouchZero]

The video card has 6GB and the rest can go on 8GB. The total is 14GB, isn't that fair?

So when a PC game has as a min requirement 8GB of ram, this is what they mean?

I thought the min ram requirement was the system ram.

Asking a serious question.

The PS4 and Xbox One consoles have unified memory pools, this is a combination of system memory and graphics memory in one place, meanwhile PCs with discrete GPUs have split memory pools, the system memory and the graphics memory.

The advantage of a unified memory pool is that you're getting your memory all from one place, for developers it can be easier to use as you don't have to worry about split memory pools and moving data to and from the CPU/GPU, a disadvantage is that they share the same memory bandwidth, and PCs with discrete GPUs can have a lot more memory bandwidth to play with as they don't have to share the bandwidth with the CPU.

Games will demand memory from both the system memory and graphics memory, the system memory is used for the games's process and the operating system, 3GB of which is reserved for the PS4 and Xbox One consoles.
On PC I've found 64 bit versions of Windows 10 to take up around 2-4GB of system memory, this is dependent on how much processes are running in the background and how much memory they demand. Although some things can be placed in virtual memory.

Here are a few scenarios of memory usage:

Game A wants 2GB of system memory and 3GB of graphics memory for a total of 5GB of memory usage.
Game B wants 3GB of system memory and 2GB of graphics memory for a total of 5GB of memory usage.
Game C wants 3GB of system memory and 5GB of graphics memory for a total of 8GB of memory usage.

This is a simplified look at potential memory demands, as there can be numerous variables at play, and the memory demands can dynamically change.
How much memory a game consumes is dependent to how it was developed.

In the case of the Xbox One X and a PC with a 6GB of VRAM and 8GB of system memory (2GB of which is consumed by Windows)
There may be scenarios where the memory available, which is 6GB for both the system and graphics memory in this hypothetical PC is capable of running the game at Xbox One X equivalent or greater settings, offering similar or greater performance should the game not require more than 6GB of VRAM.

A scenario where the memory may be inadequate would be if a game demands greater that 6GB of VRAM:
Game D wants 2GB of system memory and 7 GB of graphics memory for a total of 9GB of memory usage.

If there is anything you'd like to add or if you think I'm wrong about something please feel free to correct me.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

These attempts are always dumb, no one builds a new PC just to match a console and even if you did for some reason there are areas where you'd be hampered. Never mind it's entirely possible someone who has had a PC from the last five or six years might already have an entirely capable machine that may only need a few upgrades instead of a whole system build, especially if it's i5 or i7 based and maybe an overclock if possible/needed on the older CPUs.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Quote myself from the other day...

Let's be honest, most of time when PC gamers talk about cheap builds it's:
1. Exclude Windows or obtain in unscrupulous manner
2. Big honker ATX case
3. Cheap PSU
4. No optical drive, kb/m, hdmi cord, or gamepad
5. Recycled, weak, or outmoded hardware

Ryzen 5 and board from microcenter $179
6gb 1060 $200
Psu $15
8gb ram $50
1tb hdd $30
Case $20
Linux

$494 total

When you add $50 for the GPU(6GB variant), $30 for a PSU that won't set on fire, $30 for a decent mini-itx case, $120 for a UHD BD drive, $90 for Windows 10, $20 for cheapass KB/M to install Win10, and $50 for a Xbox One gamepad and bluetooth receiver you hit $884.

That build is a fucking travesty.

 

[LoneWolf-92]

A PC can be a console replacement.
A console can never be a PC replacement.

This is actually wrong. There were consoles which ran Linux and even handhelds which ran Windows in the past. If the X1X ever gets hacked (which is likely because every console gets hacked at some point) there is a chance that someone makes Win 10 run on it, especially since the X1 OS is Windows based anyways.

 

[tuxfool]

This is actually wrong. There were consoles which ran Linux and even handhelds which ran Windows in the past. If the X1X ever gets hacked (which is likely because every console gets hacked at some point) there is a chance that someone makes Win 10 run on it, especially since the X1 OS is Windows based anyways.

You want people to rely on hacks, which may or may not materialize? We are talking about using the devices as designed.

 

[richard_wiggler]

I don't think building a PC at $500 will match the gaming performance of the X1X until the AMD APUs with Ryzen/Vega (I think Raven Ridge?) come out, which isn't until next year I'm pretty sure.

 

[Aztechnology]

This is actually wrong. There were consoles which ran Linux and even handhelds which ran Windows in the past. If the X1X ever gets hacked (which is likely because every console gets hacked at some point) there is a chance that someone makes Win 10 run on it, especially since the X1 OS is Windows based anyways.

No it's really not wrong. You cannot currently replace a PC with a console with the functionality you need. There may be some consoles that run Linux through means that are technically not allowed, but you're going to run into issues.

 

[jwhit28]

How long until the Etherum shortages are over? There is such a huge gap between 1050 Ti and 1060 6GB. Suggesting 1060 3GB feels dirty and dealing with ebay for used 970s is a pain.

 

[Aztechnology]

How long until the Etherum shortages are over? There is such a huge gap between 1050 Ti and 1060 6GB. Suggesting 1060 3GB feels dirty and dealing with ebay for used 970s is a pain.

I don't know. But it is really shitty. You could easily find 470/570 for around $150 and 480/580 from 150-200 prior.

 

[joecanada]

Quote myself from the other day...



When you add $50 for the GPU(6GB variant), $30 for a PSU that won't set on fire, $30 for a decent mini-itx case, $120 for a UHD BD drive, $90 for Windows 10, $20 for cheapass KB/M to install Win10, and $50 for a Xbox One gamepad and bluetooth receiver you hit $884.

That build is a fucking travesty.

Problem is that we are coming at this assuming consoles have great PSU and other shit... No way . My pc was prebuild and the PSU was like 200 grams, total POS and the PC had a two year warranty so obviously whoever built it was comfortable enough. I replaced it immediately

 

[schuey7]

While the OS and recording game video feature will take up some resources, basically the games on the XB1X have 12GB RAM shared for the CPU and GPU (9GB for games) and the PC in this example has 8GB system RAM and 6GB that's tied to the GPU, for a 14GB total.

The problem with this is that some pc games require more than 8gb system ram to run properly.Recently Horizon 3 would crash at startup with low memory error on my 8gb ram till I got another stick of ram.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Problem is that we are coming at this assuming consoles have great PSU and other shit... No way . My pc was prebuild and the PSU was like 200 grams, total POS and the PC had a two year warranty so obviously whoever built it was comfortable enough. I replaced it immediately

No self-respecting gamer should pair a nice GPU like a GTX 1060 with $15 Diablotek PSU. Even Diablotek's good stuff is shit this is well known.
Hardocp: Diablotek 650W PSU

"Load Testing: Since the Diablotek PHD650 failed ~1 minute into Test #3 (75% load), the best way to describe the load tests results as cheap, inferior, junky, lousy, shoddy, sub-par, trashy, useless, worthless, etc. (That list was stolen from the Thesaurus here so that I did not just repeat myself over and over.) The PHD650 is maybe a 300 watt power supply that had a 650 watt label slapped on it and it is just a total rip off on any terms."
...
"users would be better off taking their cash and setting it on fire rather than buying this unit. "

If you want an affordable PSU, Corsair makes the CX550 2017 model that sells for $34 right now with 3yr warranty, or CXM450 for $30 with 5yr warranty. GTX 1060 is to be loved and adored, not lit on fire or shorted-out.

 

[Blam]

For PC, you need a virus protection membership that's roughly the cost of an xbox live membership. More essential than online since most games can be played offline on consoles. Joking aside, consoles are slowly becoming PCs so a few years down the road, no one will tell the difference. No one cares about walkmans anymore because Ipods merged all media into one device. All in One, hence the goal of the One in Xbox One.

Eh need is a very strong word. You really don't need the membership and most companies don't do memberships. Don't even need the antivirus either. Just be smart on the internet and you'll be fine.

 

[kuYuri]

Do UHD Bluray drives even exist for PC builds? Never even heard of them being a thing.

 

[Gestault]

It boggles my mind the quality of parts people "recommend" when they're trying to rationalize a par-build. A $20 PSU, let alone that brand, will never be anywhere near one of my builds.

Also, you don't need a paid anti-virus membership, in my experience. Either you're on a mainstream OS like Windows which has totally adequate tools built in, or you're using a Linux distribution, and no one making the viruses cares to put in the effort.