Imo, Ryan is right. Indies fly off the shelves, people aren't as skeptical to indies as they were in 2013 and 2014. Now Sony has VR, a new thing, to focus on.
Even Chubigans, an indie dev, states Ryan is right in this very thread.
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Jim Ryan on Indies 'It was just good to talk about in 2013. It is less relevant now'
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
Imo, Ryan is right. Indies fly off the shelves, people aren't as skeptical to indies as they were in 2013 and 2014. Now Sony has VR, a new thing, to focus on.
Even Chubigans, an indie dev, states Ryan is right in this very thread.
Just read the full quote, wow what is it with this dude. He really shouldn't be giving interviews, never a good look. One minute collage of indies is the only way to showcase indies now? That disrespect. And even that reel is a big deal to unknown indie developer, it's great exposure even if the full picture isn't entirely clear from the short clips. It's an incentive for people to look those games up.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
LOL this guy is so stupid. I hope Sony keeps letting him run his mouth. What an idiot.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
It's not factually inaccurate. Think about how millions of these systems are sold and then think about how many of the indies that are on these sizzle reels blow up to be huge successes because they were there.
The average consumer doesn't give a fuck about E3. It's why the conferences don't get huge viewing rates. It's why they're not on TV anymore. It's the definition of an enthusiasts show. Your average gamer isn't watching. Like I (And you) said, they probably get the information from news sources after the conferences, so they don't even know about the optics people are talking about. The average gamer has no fucking idea what was and wasn't on stage at Sony's conference. If they read an article they just know that it was available at some trade show.
And Microsoft, or any other company for that matter isn't going to dedicate time to what is clearly a business failure. Claiming that they should is way dumber than anything Jim Ryan has said.
Kacho
Member
It's common sense too
Primethius
Banned
I'm replying to a guy that's not talking about PR skills...
cucuchu
Member
There are other avenues to showcase them. I would personally like to see an indie or two get some true highlight at the presser but that was not the direction they went this year. From Sony's viewpoint I think they took the feedback that VR was not highlighted very well at the 2016 PSX and decided to focus attention on that at E3.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Just not on the biggest stage they'll have all year. I'm not even mad about it. It's their choice. I just translated the PR speak.
He literally says it doesn't mean indies aren't important, aren't there on PS4 or they don't worry about them.
They already made their commitment clear is what he obviously meant.
He basically also explains that in a limited format, and having to do other statements (like PSVR support) it wouldn't be fair to just have a 2 minutes reel of quick snipets showing you nothing to just cross a box.
Jim Ryan sucks at PR, no contest, but man this is really cherry picking.
I think he mostly fails at also pointing out that they did show some indies (Supermassive and Housemarque titles among others) and that they have other venues to showcase PS4 indies. Like PSX.
Jim Ryan doesn't do PR speak hehe.
More like brain to mouth speak.
Nope, dog-pile forever. The thread on whether people would pay more for PS+ if it bundled in other services like Vue was a monument to stupidity. Even after pages and pages of people explaining, you still had people popping in to say dumb shit.
Flintty
Member
That and it's not a stick they can beat Microsoft with anymore. Xbox was a bit shit for indies at the start of the gen so of course it made sense for PS4 to be indie friendly. Now, not so much.
eyeball_kid
Member
Or put another way, "We didn't have many other games in 2013, so we needed something, anything to make our lineup look bigger. '4 the players!' *laughing* Indies served their purpose, but we've moved on."
Brian_FETO
Banned
He's saying at this point it's not relevant to tout their commitment to indies because at this point the relationship is already established
Could've worded it better but the thread title makes you think he's saying some dumb shit like his backwards compatibility comment
Could've worded it better but the thread title makes you think he's saying some dumb shit like his backwards compatibility comment
Oh well if one indie says he's right, then he TOTALLY must be!
I get what he's saying, he's just not saying it right at all
He's not saying Indies arent important or valued, there's just less of a need to push them right now
And to that I disagree, there's still plenty of great show-winning content to display with indie games, unless they only care about showing indies for the sake of it
He's not saying Indies arent important or valued, there's just less of a need to push them right now
And to that I disagree, there's still plenty of great show-winning content to display with indie games, unless they only care about showing indies for the sake of it
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Good post. My thoughts exactly. This guy needs to stop giving interviews, but he is absolutely right about the relevance of indie in 2013. No one wants supporting Indies, and Sony said we will. Then Microsoft paid attention and said we will too (Note: MS was always pro-democracy but dropped the ball this gen, and needed a reminder). Win-win for everyone and undid the damage that the industry did after such a successful reign of Indies.
Now? It's all about AAA experiences and console sellers, and exclusives, and more power.
The full quote sounds totally reasonable, even if I think the quality of the presentation might have been improved with more indie content.
They have limited time for strategic announcements and showcases. They literally didn't show things like GTS, even though that's probably their biggest title overall. This all seems legit. they're trying to explain their priorities for limited event "space."
They have limited time for strategic announcements and showcases. They literally didn't show things like GTS, even though that's probably their biggest title overall. This all seems legit. they're trying to explain their priorities for limited event "space."
Primethius
Banned
It's not about relevancy in the context of the quote as much as it is about commitment. Earlier in the gen, they wanted to show they were committed to indies. Now they want to show they are committed to VR.
That's where the VR example comes into play. Why he mentions GT: Sport and so on.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Yeah he seems pretty honest and what he's saying makes sense. What a terrible title
When is Soda Drinker Pro coming to PS4?
It's not just about showing as much things as they can think of. They want to push more attention on VR. The more they show indie stuff the more you take focus and attention away from the VR stuff they feel they need to push more at the moment. The more you show the more you divide people's attention.
Yeah. There is nothing at all controversial about what he said and it's ridiculous that it has turned in to a controversy because we simply can't allow a nuanced explanation of something.
Yeah, I think a fully focused conference outside of E3 that has a ton of indie announcements is just a much cooler thing than a sizzle reel. I can't even remember any of the games that was in the MS indie sizzle reel. Not because they weren't memorable, but because it was just so much info at once.
Ask the Ooblets devs what they think about being featured in two of the conferences
I don't think indie games have much to prove anymore. They are here, they are making tons of cash, and I don't think they need to be shown right after the new Halo trailer or the big Uncharted game to prove a point ("hey this game is just as good as a AAA game!"). Now, I don't think that's a bad thing either...but my personal preference is for E3 to be all out "big" game titles.
Microsoft's conference was basically 75% indies. I didn't like it. (And I didn't really like Sony's conference this year either).
There's a good middle balance with indie games. Neither MS or Sony achieved it this year, and if it wasn't for the PSX conference later this year I'd totally be bummed out.
Portugeezer
Member
Seems reasonable
MaverickHunterX
Member
I'm sorry but that's bullshit. I walked away from e3 so disappointed in Sony because they really didn't have the same type of wow or surprise that last years show did. I mean, the games were awesome but I knew they were coming from last year
Sony needs to aim at ALL audiences if they want to continue slaying this gen. All those games you named I couldn't give a rats ass about but yet I loved the pre-conference (with UT, Crash, and even Knack 2)
It makes me think of the PS1 generation when Sony tried telling us that we didn't want 2D games on their system.
Mr. Phellps
Member
He has said some shitty stuff in the past, but this one seems reasonable. Lame attempt at a Jim Ryan mocking thread.
Yes, but they still could have shown off a few indies during the unusually short conference. Nothing was stopping them.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Yep. A non-answer like "We have more to showcase at PSX and beyond" would suffice. However, I love his weird blunt responses and gives more room for discussion.
Yearsoflurking
Member
theirs literally thousands.. hell millions of indie devs that will probably disagree with him
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Wow this title does not reflect the full quote AT ALL.
OP, any chance do you write "news" stories on a blog?
OP, any chance do you write "news" stories on a blog?
OttoSporteman
Member
I've said this on the cross-play argument, will say it again:
Arrogant Sony is back, full power.
It was VERY healthy for the Playstation brand to be the underdog prior to PS4 launch. After the second year of this generation, the #4theplayers motto is not at all representative of nowadays.
Arrogant Sony is back, full power.
It was VERY healthy for the Playstation brand to be the underdog prior to PS4 launch. After the second year of this generation, the #4theplayers motto is not at all representative of nowadays.
FonkyByNature
Member
Seriously, this thread is embarrassing. Jim Ryan said nothing bad, some here clearly want to interpret things how they want or that arrogant Sony is back or some other crap that is polluting this forum recently.
If you read things, you can clearly understand what he's trying to say and it's absolutely normal. Jeez...
If you read things, you can clearly understand what he's trying to say and it's absolutely normal. Jeez...
Me either.
I suggest others read the entire thing.
Some of what I took from it was indes have made it to the point they dont really have to do an indie showcase for them all the time.
And some they did it wasnt fair because it was too many games in not enough time.
Thats if I'm interpreting it right.
Primethius
Banned
Right, but I think that's more a criticism of the conference rather than the quote. Sony didn't show off several new IPs, GT: Sport or one of their biggest JP console exclusive games at the conference. They could've shown off indie titles and this quote would still be accurate and fine.
Mushroomer25
Member
Are you genuinely saying that Sony and Microsoft's 2013 E3 presentations ($399, Used Games, Always Online, etc) made NO impact on how those two consoles sold the following holiday? Optics from E3 mean alot. They won't be the end-all be-all, but they drive fan emotion and devotion.
Additionally, those indie devs are going to appreciate the advertising in front of a huge global audience. Even if most console owners never see the press conference, those games are still being exposed to players who may have never found them overwise.
Uno Venova
Banned
Does that mean his input shouldn't matter or something.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I did just now. And I can think of several indie games that blew up by being on one of these stages in a quick reel. We even have several from this year! That one game that got made by that GamerGater got huge on a quick trailer.
Most of the write-ups are the week after, but they're also written based on the conferences. Writers for the average news publications aren't lingering at what amounts to a con for a week to wait in line to play games, it's not their thing. They go to the conferences and talk about what looked cool to them in trailers. If your game doesn't make the conference, then it's not getting written about except on gaming sites. That can severely hurt indie titles. Again, there's a reason companies show these games on stage.
Nobody needs extra marketing for Gran Turismo (which is why I thought it was a good idea to keep it in the pre-show). Games like Cuphead do need that marketing.
Ultimately I agree that Kinect, Move, etc... are business failures (even if I think they should still be supported to show you actually support your products), so why talk about indies in that same way? Why keep them from your main show the same way Vita started disappearing. Remember how that went? Slowly less and less appearances until it got branded a Legacy system, which just lets Sony justify mining its games for ports and then letting it die proper.
Ryan is stating that indies aren't a feature at their shows, I guess forever. I honestly can't think of a time when this meant anything good for whatever had been kicked off the stage.
How is a sizzle reel less relevant than not showing any at all?
Like I said earlier, I went back through the reel from the MS presser and looked up games that seemed interesting to me. Seems like a win for visibility.
The quote isn't shit just because you might have a different philosophy. That's not why this thread was made and thats not what's being discussed.
See? You're actually a perfect example of what I am saying. You might not have liked what they showed during their presser but you and me are people who follow this stuff day in and day out. And we follow outlets other than the E3 Presser itself. We will see those smaller games because we #engage with Sony on a level that is inconceivable for those who just watch the presser itself.
What I'm saying is that if you say Undertale was your highlight of this E3, Sony clearly didn't target you with their presser. I myself though Days Gone looked super lame but I'm sure thousands of Walking Dead fans are going absolutely crazy on their Facebook feeds right now.
Yearsoflurking
Member
never said that, his opinion is welcome
Primethius
Banned
That's only part of it. His main point is regarding commitment to indies vs. something like VR. Sony has established they are committed to indies, that's not something in question like it might have been at the start of the gen.
The VR example is to demonstrate they see VR titles the same way.