• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

First Spider-Man: Homecoming reactions

I

Inferno313

Banned
I swear to god, the X-Men franchise could put out fucking No Country For Old Men and you nerds would still be whining about fucking yellow suits.


Oh wait, that basically happened.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Glass Rebel said:
I want them to hold out on Green Goblin and Doc Ock as much as possible. Having Vulture, Shocker and Tinkerer in this one was a good move and I hope Spidey 2 and 3 give us Mysterio, Kraven, Scorpion, Chameleon, Hammerhead etc. before they go back to the "old" stuff.
Click to expand...

Slayven said:
Doc Ock and the goblins can sleep for a long time for all i care

Give me Tombstone, The SMythes, Silvermane, etc. Spidey got a deep bench, fucking use it
Click to expand...

I don't think they're going to do anything from the old movies: goblin, doc ock, lizard, electro, sandman, rhino

i could see tombstone, kraven, mysterio, chameleon being used and it makes me super happy

damn spidey has the best rogues gallery
 
B

Buckle

Member
jon bones said:
I don't think they're going to do anything from the old movies: goblin, doc ock, lizard, electro, sandman, rhino

i could see tombstone, kraven, mysterio, chameleon being used and it makes me super happy

damn spidey has the best rogues gallery
Click to expand...
Yeah but it would have been nice if we could have gotten a Lizard that didn't look like a rejected goomba prototype from The Super Mario Bros film.

Goddamn, I hated that design so bad.
 
Glass Rebel

Glass Rebel

Member
Sub_Level said:
But the worst costumes were in First Class.
Click to expand...

But making fun of First Class isn't as satisfying.

Inferno313 said:
I swear to god, the X-Men franchise could put out fucking No Country For Old Men and you nerds would still be whining about fucking yellow suits.


Oh wait, that basically happened.
Click to expand...

The X-Men franchise could put out mediocre movie after mediocre movie and you nerds would still heap praise on them.

Oh wait, that basically happened.
 
P

Prompto

Banned
Inferno313 said:
I swear to god, the X-Men franchise could put out fucking No Country For Old Men and you nerds would still be whining about fucking yellow suits.


Oh wait, that basically happened.
Click to expand...
It does sometimes feel like some people refuse to enjoy a superhero film if it doesn't have a Marvel Studios logo in the beginning.

And Logan is one of my favorite superhero films ever but let's not get carried away and compare it to No Country For Old Men.
 
-shadow-

-shadow-

Member
That's really good, might end up watching it on the big screen. The last one I saw was The Amazing Spiderman because a friend brought me with him and it ended up costing me nothing. But man what a mess that was.

MisterHero said:
This is what I remember most about this exchange

docockbutterfingers01v5sxa.gif
Click to expand...

I love this guy so much. It's such an amazing take and it's hilarious!
 
J

JayCB

Member
jon bones said:
I don't think they're going to do anything from the old movies: goblin, doc ock, lizard, electro, sandman, rhino
Click to expand...

Gah this is frustrating, I've always loved the Lizards story, and with so much focus of Homecoming and the MCU Spidey being based around the John Huges style highschool, having Curt be one of Peter's teachers and working the story from there would've been so good.

Kraven is my next pick though so at least I have a shot at that.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
SpideySenses said:
Putting aside the racist bullshit, they really copped out not just making her the real MJ, if you're going to go that direction, own it, don't half ass it. Over the five movies, we've never had a Mary Jane/Gwen who has been a perfect comic book representation and yet it's with a black actress they get cold feet and have to change the name.
Click to expand...

re: potential character identity spoilers

I dunno how it'll come off in the movie, but if they're treating it like a surprise considering how they haven't explicitly announced who her character is, that's also kinda fucked up? "We made that character you know black!" should be a matter of fact, not fodder for getting some momentary gasp from the audience. That and the fact they're hiding it from the marketing is really shitty and cowardly if true.
 
Glass Rebel

Glass Rebel

Member
Doctor Decimate said:
re: potential character identity spoilers

I dunno how it'll come off in the movie, but if they're treating it like a surprise considering how they haven't explicitly announced who her character is, that's also kinda fucked up? "We made that character you know black!" should be a matter of fact, not fodder for getting some momentary gasp from the audience. That and the fact they're hiding it from the marketing is really shitty and cowardly if true.
Click to expand...

This reading of a scene you haven't even seen is entirely on you and isn't reflected at all in Marvel's or Sony's marketing for the film.
 
B

Biggest-Geek-Ever

Member
JayCB said:
Gah this is frustrating, I've always loved the Lizards story, and with so much focus of Homecoming and the MCU Spidey being based around the John Huges style highschool, having Curt be one of Peter's teachers and working the story from there would've been so good.

Kraven is my next pick though so at least I have a shot at that.
Click to expand...
Lizard's character in ASM1 also makes no goddamn sense. The only reason we're given for him wanting to turning New York into a mutant lizard city other than a brief scene of him talking to himself. It's essentially the same sort of scene as a handful involving Osborne in SM1, but as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, everything the Green Goblin does benefits Osborne in some way.

I remember reading there was a late decision made to change Peter Parker's origins in ASM1 so he wasn't a child of destiny (something ASM2 would proceed to have anyway), and that may have ruined the Curt Connors character.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
Glass Rebel said:
Followed up by lots of theorizing about how potentially
racist
it might come off. That's kinda fucked up.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, THAT'S the thing that's fucked up, someone being apprehensive about a studio handling
a sensitive topic they already don't have the greatest track record with.
Maybe I owe the company an apology for my forum post.

And there's also the part where how the scene itself plays out has relatively little to do with what I even said but alright, poor Marvel.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
LionPride said:
I disliked how the Raimi movies tried to make every villain except for Venom seem like a tragic figure

Otto Octavius isn't a tragic hero, he's a dick
Norman Osbourne is a fucking sociopath who stole Peter's girl and made him deal with it
Flint Marko is just an asshole

No tragic figures and they don't need one.

Plus the Raimi movies ain't good Spider-Man movies

Decent movies but not Spider-Man movies
Click to expand...

LionPride said:
Yeah the Raimi Spider-Man movies ain't good Spider-Man movies

Spider-Man 2 is a fine movie

Just not a good Spidey movie. Fuck em
Click to expand...

Otoi6oD.jpg
 
J

JayCB

Member
Biggest-Geek-Ever said:
I remember reading there was a late decision made to change Peter Parker's origins in ASM1 so he wasn't a child of destiny (something ASM2 would proceed to have anyway), and that may have ruined the Curt Connors character.
Click to expand...

Every time I see stuff like this I pray a little more that the barge pole Feige is using to try and keep Sony away from this production will hold firm..
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Ummm...

Spidey 2 is legit a great movie. I mean, the Raimi leads were terribly miscast. Dunst and Maguire just terrible choices. And the Green Gobby's costume was bad, but he, JJJ, and Doc Oc were all cast incredibly.

Seeing Spidey swing, and the impeccable casting of the antagonists for each still make me love it. I can't stress enough how great Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, and J. K. Simmons are in their respective roles. They made their movies.

Spidey 3 didn't have this. They tried to pack too many villains into it, giving neither a good focus. Not that there was much to work with there. Also too much focus on the weaker links of Dunst and Maguire.

Spidey 2 I love, I like Spidey 1 in spite of it's flaws, and I find nothing to like about Spidey 3. The Amazings were mishmashed piles of blah... I really liked the dynamic of Garfield and Stone though. They did the Petey and Gwen dynamic justice, until it ended. About the only thing done adequately.

So if this is as good as Spidey 2... that's like my bar for incredible Spidey movie. And it sounds like it actually stars a well cast Spidey! So double awesome!
 
Glass Rebel

Glass Rebel

Member
Doctor Decimate said:
Oh yeah, THAT'S the thing that's fucked up, someone being apprehensive about a studio handling
a sensitive topic they already don't have the greatest track record with.
Maybe I owe the company an apology for my forum post.

And there's also the part where how the scene itself plays out has relatively little to do with what I even said but alright, poor Marvel.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's kinda fucked up that you are basically accusing Marvel of hiding something like that in a movie with the most diverse cast in any Spider-Man movie so far. Especially when they had no issue changing the ethnicity of two classically white Spider-Man characters with no fanfare whatsoever. But yes, they are hiding MJ's identity because she's black. It's not just fucked up but also dumb and insulting.

No need to apologize to anyone, just post smarter.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
Thunder Monkey said:
Ummm...

Spidey 2 is legit a great movie. I mean, the Raimi leads were terribly miscast. Dunst and Maguire just terrible choices. And the Green Gobby's costume was bad, but he, JJJ, and Doc Oc were all cast incredibly.

Seeing Spidey swing, and the impeccable casting of the antagonists for each still make me love it. I can't stress enough how great Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, and J. K. Simmons are in their respective roles. They made their movies.

Spidey 3 didn't have this. They tried to pack too many villains into it, giving neither a good focus. Not that there was much to work with there. Also too much focus on the weaker links of Dunst and Maguire.

Spidey 2 I love, I like Spidey 1 in spite of it's flaws, and I find nothing to like about Spidey 3. The Amazings were mishmashed piles of blah... I really liked the dynamic of Garfield and Stone though. They did the Petey and Gwen dynamic justice, until it ended. About the only thing done adequately.

So if this is as good as Spidey 2... that's like my bar for incredible Spidey movie. And it sounds like it actually stars a well cast Spidey! So double awesome!
Click to expand...

these are pretty much my thoughts word for word on the raimi trilogy and the two amazing movies

though I'm harsher on the raimi ones because I'd trade some of the things it excels at for a proper take on spider man and peter parker.

I always bring up the first Iron Man as a comparison. Spider Man 2 is probably the better movie. probably by a significant margin. however Iron Man nailed the main character, and I mean absolutely nailed. RDJ was perfect as Tony Stark. so the things that the movie doesn't do well don't bother me as much because that is an Iron Man movie through and through. I can't say the same for the Raimi movies. tobey maguire and kirsten dunst were awful casting choices but those first two movies still had a lot of other things going for it. like you said the green goblin, doc ock, and JJJ were perfect casting choices. I'd say that green goblin and JJJ rival RDJ as being perfect for the character though obviously the green goblin's costume was pretty bad. then there's the third movie. they dropped the ball hard with the villains and because of the dreadful casting choices for pete and MJ there was nothing left to carry that movie. it just fell flat on its face while also highlighting the biggest issues with the previous two movies. so for me I'd take Iron Man over Spider Man 2 every day of the week because of all that.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
Glass Rebel said:
Yes, it's kinda fucked up that you are basically accusing Marvel of hiding something like that in a movie with the most diverse cast in any Spider-Man movie so far. Especially when they had no issue changing the ethnicity of two classically white Spider-Man characters with no fanfare whatsoever. But yes, they are hiding MJ's identity because she's black. It's not just fucked up but also dumb and insulting.

No need to apologize to anyone, just post smarter.
Click to expand...

Wow, he's serious.

I wasn't aware having a more diverse cast meant they were immune to still fucking up where it counts; them having a black dude and an Asian dude in Doctor Strange didn't make that whole thing with the Ancient One any better. So, do you honestly wanna be the one who sits here and denies that changing MJ's race would be far and away the most potentially controversial thing, a thing that's coincidentally absent from any of the movie's pre-release stuff if it's true? If it's not treated like a surprise in context, great. I hope it's not. But they'll still have hidden that fact when it comes to marketing the movie to pretty much no end but a) to leave it a surprise for the audience, and it's not okay to use someone's ethnicity as a surprise in this sort of context for reasons I hope I don't have to get into or b) to duck controversy (and I do find this one the least likely because there's gonna be a controversy when it gets out regardless).

Maybe there's some unforeseen, life-changing approach to race in this summer superhero movie that I haven't thought of that totally justifies leaving it out of any pre-release stuff and outright saying this character is somebody else, but it is just as likely (more so, even) that Marvel fucked up in this particular area even if they made some admirable strides elsewhere, and I don't see you citing any potential alternatives outside "look how diverse." So yes, I am going to withhold judgment because I haven't seen this movie and it might not even be true, but it doesn't look good at the moment, which makes me apprehensive. And the only thing fucked up here is you immediately leaping to the defense of a company you like with the black friend argument when any apprehensions are more than justified. Because heaven forbid anyone accuse a company in Hollywood of mishandling race for what's surely the first time.

This is gonna be my last post on the subject until the movie's out/we get any confirmation, because the point's been made and I don't want it to clog up the thread further.
 
Glass Rebel

Glass Rebel

Member
Doctor Decimate said:
Wow, he's serious.

I wasn't aware having a more diverse cast meant they were immune to still fucking up where it counts; them having a black dude and an Asian dude in Doctor Strange didn't make that whole thing with the Ancient One any better. So, do you honestly wanna be the one who sits here and denies that changing MJ's race would be far and away the most potentially controversial thing, a thing that's coincidentally absent from any of the movie's pre-release stuff if it's true? If it's not treated like a surprise in context, great. I hope it's not. But they'll still have hidden that fact when it comes to marketing the movie to pretty much no end but a) to leave it a surprise for the audience, and it's not okay to use someone's ethnicity as a surprise in this sort of context for reasons I hope I don't have to get into or b) to duck controversy (and I do find this one the least likely because there's gonna be a controversy when it gets out regardless).

Maybe there's some unforeseen, life-changing approach to race in this summer superhero movie that I haven't thought of that totally justifies leaving it out of any pre-release stuff and outright saying this character is somebody else, but it is just as likely (more so, even) that Marvel fucked up in this particular area even if they made some admirable strides elsewhere. So yes, I am going to withhold judgment because I haven't seen this movie and it might not even be true, but it doesn't look good at the moment, which makes me apprehensive. And the only thing fucked up here is you immediately leaping to the defense of a company you like with the black friend argument when any apprehensions are more than justified. Because heaven forbid anyone accuse a company in Hollywood of mishandling race for what's surely the first time.
Click to expand...

Again, your interpretation of a scene you haven't seen based on the potential reactions of people that haven't seen it either is entirely on you.

It's you whose mind went from "MJ being black would be controversial" to "they must be scared to show it in marketing" and then "the surprise must be that she's black" when

1. They haven't shied away from racebending traditionally white characters
2. Zendaya's characterization has been like the complete opposite of MJ

But whatever, it's you who's going to look foolish when the movie is released.
 
B

Bronx-Man

Banned
I feel like what you feel is the worst superhero movie depends on who your fav is. I'm sure there's plenty of Supes fans that feel like Man of Steel/BvS are the dirt worst, Batman fans consider Batman & Robin the worst, etc.

But a man that's been reading Spidey since I was 5, goddamn do I hate ASM2. That thing offends me on all levels: film nerd, Spidey fan, whatever. It's a goddamn 2 hour Sony quarterly earning report. Just the most cold, soulless piece of "filmmaking" I've ever seen. Everything wrong with superhero flicks wrapped up in one package.

Fuck that film and thank Madame Web that we'll never have to see that universe again.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
Ummm...

Spidey 2 is legit a great movie. I mean, the Raimi leads were terribly miscast. Dunst and Maguire just terrible choices. And the Green Gobby's costume was bad, but he, JJJ, and Doc Oc were all cast incredibly.

Seeing Spidey swing, and the impeccable casting of the antagonists for each still make me love it. I can't stress enough how great Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, and J. K. Simmons are in their respective roles. They made their movies.

Spidey 3 didn't have this. They tried to pack too many villains into it, giving neither a good focus. Not that there was much to work with there. Also too much focus on the weaker links of Dunst and Maguire.

Spidey 2 I love, I like Spidey 1 in spite of it's flaws, and I find nothing to like about Spidey 3. The Amazings were mishmashed piles of blah... I really liked the dynamic of Garfield and Stone though. They did the Petey and Gwen dynamic justice, until it ended. About the only thing done adequately.

So if this is as good as Spidey 2... that's like my bar for incredible Spidey movie. And it sounds like it actually stars a well cast Spidey! So double awesome!
Click to expand...

whats wrong with Maguire? He is the best spiderman.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
Bronx-Man said:
I feel like what you feel is the worst superhero movie depends on who your fav is. I'm sure there's plenty of Supes fans that feel like Man of Steel/BvS are the dirt worst, Batman fans consider Batman & Robin the worst, etc.

But a man that's been reading Spidey since I was 5, goddamn do I hate ASM2. That thing offends me on all levels: film nerd, Spidey fan, whatever. It's a goddamn 2 hour Sony quarterly earning report. Just the most cold, soulless piece of "filmmaking" I've ever seen. Everything wrong with superhero flicks wrapped up in one package.

Fuck that film and thank Madame Web that we'll never have to see that universe again.
Click to expand...

the Amazing Spider-Man movies are actually the cynical, sterile corporate bullshit people often accuse a lot of superhero movies these days of being yeah (not to say those accusations are always unfounded but they are in every way the poster child for that style of filmmaking)
 
D

Dalek

Member
Bronx-Man said:
I feel like what you feel is the worst superhero movie depends on who your fav is. I'm sure there's plenty of Supes fans that feel like Man of Steel/BvS are the dirt worst, Batman fans consider Batman & Robin the worst, etc.

But a man that's been reading Spidey since I was 5, goddamn do I hate ASM2. That thing offends me on all levels: film nerd, Spidey fan, whatever. It's a goddamn 2 hour Sony quarterly earning report. Just the most cold, soulless piece of "filmmaking" I've ever seen. Everything wrong with superhero flicks wrapped up in one package.

Fuck that film and thank Madame Web that we'll never have to see that universe again.
Click to expand...

ASM showed promise but yeah ASM2 was a spectacle of awful.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Daft_Cat said:
Not to discredit the script (cause boy, that's one hell of a script), but Molina managed to add all kinds of nuanced little layers to Octavius. He effectively turned a mustache-twirling arch-baddie into a complex, haunting villain with a tragic arc. Definitely one of the best performances in the genre - a feat he managed without chewing up all the scenery like Dafoe (or even Ledger, to some extent).
Click to expand...

Not even Molina could save those lines. If there was an edit that removed all the inhibitor chip and AI tentacle shit i could see Octavius being a complex and haunting villain. As it is hes corny as fuck in all the wrong ways.
 
P

Prompto

Banned
Dalek said:
ASM showed promise but yeah ASM2 was a spectacle of awful.
Click to expand...
Andrew Garfield could have been a great Peter Parker/Spider-Man. Shame

Still hoping we get a Spider-Verse movie down the line with Tom Holland, Maguire, and Garfield.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
water_wendi said:
Not even Molina could save those lines. If there was an edit that removed all the inhibitor chip and AI tentacle shit i could see Octavius being a complex and haunting villain. As it is hes corny as fuck in all the wrong ways.
Click to expand...

yeah the inhibitor chip stuff was silly

and in the end when he "triumphs" over the arms was cringey as all fuck

"listen to me now...LISTEN TO ME NOW"
 
J

Jocund

Member
Raimi's Spider-Mans are great movies, but they just aren't great movie movies

Tobey Maguire doesn't have enough Spider-Man to be Sam Raimi

Kirsten Dunst
 
T

Toa TAK

Banned
Bronx-Man said:
I feel like what you feel is the worst superhero movie depends on who your fav is. I'm sure there's plenty of Supes fans that feel like Man of Steel/BvS are the dirt worst, Batman fans consider Batman & Robin the worst, etc.

But a man that's been reading Spidey since I was 5, goddamn do I hate ASM2. That thing offends me on all levels: film nerd, Spidey fan, whatever. It's a goddamn 2 hour Sony quarterly earning report. Just the most cold, soulless piece of "filmmaking" I've ever seen. Everything wrong with superhero flicks wrapped up in one package.

Fuck that film and thank Madame Web that we'll never have to see that universe again.
Click to expand...
Amen.

And, that reminds me:


I would also like to see Madame Web in these movies.
Bobby Roberts said:
Wait, hold on, why are you children taking shots at Logan & First Class now?

What's going on here
Click to expand...
The Warden is here.
 
F

Fancyarcher

Member
Glass Rebel said:
You'd think someone named Marc Webb would have been born to direct Spider-Man but alas...

This was some Thor/Thorr shit.
Click to expand...

I'd blame Sony more then Webb. They were trying to control the production of both films because they wanted to hold on to the rights, it was really pathetic.

TheMagician said:
He's absolutely nothing like Peter Parker or Spider-Man are supposed to be.

Zero charisma. Depressing even.
Click to expand...

Peter Parker doesn't need to super charisma IMO, he just needs to be dorky at first and progresses as a character. Honestly I thought Maguire did fine in the film.
 
T

Tobor

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Wait, hold on, why are you children taking shots at Logan & First Class now?

What's going on here
Click to expand...

I can't speak to Logan, I haven't seen it.

I did see First Class, and it sucked. It didn't even have the first class in it. I should sue for false advertising. 😎
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Spider-Man 4: Thomas Haden Church Believes Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire Will Return
Rumor
38
2K
bitbydeath replied
Tom Holland’s Spider-Man Is Returning To The MCU &
News
15
1K
Kacho replied
Adam Sandler movies, Spider-Man, and PS2
28
2K
GMCamaro replied
Rumor: Tom Holland Multi-“Spider-Man” Deal?
14
1K
mansoor1980 replied
So uhhh there's been no good Spiderman film since 2004 huh?
2
71
3K
Dark Star replied
Top Bottom