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[Jangowuzhere]

Games have been doing "blockbuster" set piece moments without QTEs for years now.

It's seriously uncreative. I don't care if it is a small part of the game, there are better ways.

EDIT: I'm not against QTEs in general, but the ones shown off in the gameplay demo at E3 looked quite boring. A person is pressing buttons, but it barely looks like it is connecting with the action on screen.

 

[NullPointer]

What you show at E3 is what people assume is a representative sample of your game.

Simple truth, and a point that has to be made far too often.

Gameplay-wise they showcased some stealth-action combat, a short boss battle, swinging mechanics and a big ass spectacle driven by QTEs.

That's what people were shown and that's what they'll respond to, both positives and negatives. We've also seen criticism about QTEs from people who loved what they saw and are hyped for the game. Whether QTEs are a good tool to use or not, they may have pushed them a bit farther than some people are comfortable with in their demo. Some people loved the swinging, some thought it was too slow. Some thought the Batman-esque combat is overused and others think its perfect for Spiderman.

The core game loop wasn't shown, so its all in people's imaginations as to how it works and how much it differs from what we've seen. And once people see that core gameplay loop they'll comment on it, as they always do.

 

[Otnopolit]

While I agree that it's outdated, there are some sequences that would literally just be cutscenes unless they are made interactive via QTEs. Insomniac are a great company that have made some really fun games that had little to no QTE in the past. They know how to design games, and I trust their Judgement.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

First impressions are everything. The fact they didn't show any open world Spidey physics is worrying, particularly when it's been a core complaint of Spidey game fans for years.

Yeah, and I'm a little disappointed that people went hard on QTEs instead of asking them to show more stuff like that. Though, not trying to say that people shouldn't criticize the QTEs if they have a problem with them. Just that I would've liked it if they had paid more attention to other stuff that the demo was missing.

 

[riotous]

I've never played a QTE I liked; not trying to be snarky, but the term "played" is pretty loose with these moments. They seem to exist to wow people but they have the opposite affect on me; if they are going to be there I hope they are super easy, because they aren't "fun", so when they are hard they can really pull me out of a game.

Insomniac can do as they please and gamers can react how they please; there's definitely a little bit of "my opinion is fact" going on here, but people acting like Insomniac shouldn't have even commented? Give me a break.

 

[Crossing Eden]

maybe you guys should consider that Insomniac's showing was meant to grab more people than just the kinds of enthusiast gamers who'd prefer an open world walkthrough w/dev commentary over the goddamn stunning shit that they showed

I meant after the presentation.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

These moments in a game like this are the supers in a fighting game or the summons in a rpg or the invincibility power-up of a platformer...

Not only that, vistas and setpieces are the reward in place of the CG cutscene or stage clear screen with a letter grade of old.

I've said this a couple times already in different ways, but I'd rather this to punctuate a story mission rather than some last gen, pulled back camera with some janky system in place to give us more agency and over using it to justify it's development and inclusion.

 

[Nesotenso]

Simple truth, and a point that has to be made far too often.

Gameplay-wise they showcased some stealth-action combat, a short boss battle, swinging mechanics and a big ass spectacle driven by QTEs.

That's what people were shown and that's what they'll respond to, both positives and negatives. We've also seen criticism about QTEs from people who loved what they saw and are hyped for the game. Whether QTEs are a good tool to use or not, they may have pushed them a bit farther than some people are comfortable with in their demo. Some people loved the swinging, some thought it was too slow. Some thought the Batman-esque combat is overused and others think its perfect for Spiderman.

The core game loop wasn't shown, so its all in people's imaginations as to how it works and how much it differs from what we've seen. And once people see that core gameplay loop they'll comment on it, as they always do.

both combat and traversal were shown...

 

[GameAddict411]

QTE are shit even during set pieces. Just remove them and start being creative instead of just relaying on shitty game mechanics. No excuse as there are many other games with great set pieces and not QTEs.

 

[Resident_UA]

QTE are shit even during set pieces. Just remove them and start being creative instead of just relaying on shitty game mechanics. No excuse as there are many other games with great set pieces and not QTEs.

Like what?!

 

[NullPointer]

both combat and traversal were shown...

Swinging and combat were shown in slices, but how does a non-QTE mission play out? Where do you get your missions? How do they play out? Is it Batman: Arkham City without the tanks? Or something else?

I mean, we're left to project our own imaginations until we actually see it or get more detailed impressions from people with hands-on time. And beyond that, sometimes things look worse in presentations than they feel when you get hands-on time yourself. Look at Doom's melee kills, which had all kinds of positive and negative chatter before the game released, but in the end was seen as mostly positive.

Its just how these things go.

 

[NastyBook]

It's a Sony AAA exclusive title shown at E3. If the game did anything wrong, it was going to be shitted on, so it became one of those "sit back and relax" moments. This is fucking Insomniac Games we're talking about, here. Most detractors probably never played a single R&C title in their lives. QTEs were never going to be the order of the day.

 

[Professor Beef]

I prefer just watching the cutscenes rather than being forced to interact with it. It'd be cool if they gave us the option to watch those moments instead of pressing a button on command.

If you don't like interacting with games, then why bother playing them at all

 

[Nesotenso]

Swinging and combat were shown in slices, but how does a non-QTE mission play out? Where do you get your missions? How do they play out? Is it Batman: Arkham City without the tanks? Or something else?

I mean, we're left to project our own imaginations until we actually see it or get more detailed impressions from people with hands-on time.

whatever the nature of their open world and mission structure, they showed you what you would be doing for the majority of the time vis-a-vis combat and swinging.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

If you don't like interacting with games, then why bother playing them at all

'Press X to advance cut scene' hardly constitutes as gameplay.

 

[Lifeline]

I am glad that gamers are speaking out against them. The fact that Insomniac is responding means that gamers have won. If gamers said nothing in Rockstar fiasco, no change would happen.

Gamers won by rampant exaggeration and hyperbole which forced the developer to come out and clarify something which most sane people already knew.

Nothing changed. They just clarified that the QTEs are just during set peices and not part of the normal gameplay loop. Which, again, was obvious to most but the vocal minority.

Also I prefer moments like that "QTE scene" where you have to stop the chopper from falling by shooting web over just watching a cutscene of it happening. And according to the views and likes on the E3 trailer, most people had no problems with it.

And as for having set peices incorporate the normal gameplay, we saw that too with Spider-Man chasing the helicopter as it destroys billboards and such on its way across the city.

Spider-Man is a extremely agile and acrobatic character there's no way to show all the cool shit he can do while staying within what's possible with the gameplay.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

I don't get how they couldn't have seen one giant QTE demo not going over well. Hopefully it isn't more pronounced than they are letting on...

Not really worried though. It's Insomniac, so I think it will turn out well. Sunset Overdrive was god damn great. However, still going to do the ol' wait and see. Hasn't grabbed me as a must own, but I hope it turns out well.

 

[TheSkullPrince]

I have faith Insomniac will turn out a great Spider-Man game, since Sunset Overdrive is my favorite game this gen.

 

[chadtwo]

I am glad that gamers are speaking out against them. The fact that Insomniac is responding means that gamers have won. If gamers said nothing in Rockstar fiasco, no change would happen.

The next time a developer thinks about using QTEs to drive a setpiece, they are going to look at the backlash that Spider-Man received. The message is clear: Gamers don't like them in any form no matter how many fancy polygons, textures, moves, camera angles, and special effects you layer on top of them. They are not cool.

It's an interesting discussion. Are QTEs ever okay? Is there a way to design blockbuster moments around your core gameplay mechanics instead of separating them out into "Blockbuster moments" ? I'd argue yes.

Button prompts on their own are not bad when they serve to enhance the experience, but the problem is relying on them to drive the coolest parts of your setpieces. The other problem is it doesn't make sense in the context of the gameplay. Like why am I pushing triangle to make Spider-Man duck when I can't duck in the game by hitting the triangle button. It's so random. Honestly, it seems like the Insomniac designed this setpiece because they thought we would get bored if we didn't randomly hit a whole lot buttons feverishly every once and awhile.

It's a weird disconnect between the core gameplay and setpieces. The first Uncharted was filled with loads of non interactive button-mashing Summer Blockbuster moments that felt so isolated from the core game. Quiet frankly, all these moments were rubbish and hindered the overall game.

Naughty Dog went back to the drawing board with Uncharted 2 and said we want to make our summer blockbuster moments playable. They built an entire moving traversal system for the game just to accomplish this goal and it drove the whole development of the game. Their setpieces became a part of their core mechanics instead of being separated out.

God Of War was another game that relied on QTEs for blockbuster moments. Now the team has designed the blockbuster moments around the core gameplay mechanics in the latest God Of War.

As the gaming medium matures, great developers have found a way to design around QTEs and as a result their games have been better.

I'm not so sure of this

 

[GravityInsanity]

I'm starting to think a very, VERY, small minority of people are even complaining about this.

It's also the same people that will get the game anyway.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

I'm starting to think a very, VERY, small minority of people are even complaining about this.

It's also the same people that will get the game anyway.

Or are port begging.

 

[Dynomutt]

Or are port begging.

This is will be the next movement. It has already started.

 

[dyergram]

Anybody listen to rebel fm? Neogaf fan favourite arther said that he'd been told that 'there's no way the Spider-Man footage was real' due to the amount of unique animations hilariously he went on to say anthem footage was defiantly real. This aside the game looks great and I don't mode the odd qte to mix up the gameplay during story missions. Also the original trailer was supberb in 4K!

 

[pixellated_man]

The cynical part of me thinks a lot of these complaints are coming from haters who's mad that this game is exclusive. I'm quite certain that Insomniac had already addressed the QTE question multiple times at various interviews during E3.

That's always the case with high profile exclusives - some people need to convince themselves they don't need X exclusive if they don't own the platform to play it on.
Similar thing happened with Sunset Overdrive, Horizon, etc.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I'm starting to think a very, VERY, small minority of people are even complaining about this.

It's also the same people that will get the game anyway.

It's why I'm confused with the gamers won post the they deserve the backlash posts,the demo was received bad posts. Voice concerns by all means but don't act like y'all the majority

 

[Resident_UA]

Anybody listen to rebel fm? Neogaf fan favourite arther said that he'd been told that 'there's no way the Spider-Man footage was real' due to the amount of unique animations hilariously he went on to say anthem footage was defiantly real. This aside the game looks great and I don't mode the odd qte to mix up the gameplay during story missions. Also the original trailer was supberb in 4K!

How can you guys listen to that asshole talk? He just makes shit up to make Microsoft sound good. You might think that I'm exaggerating but go and listen to PS4/Xbox One pre-launch podcast. It's ridiculous!

(Which sucks because I really like Anthony, but I don't listen to them at all now...)

 

[NullPointer]

Anybody listen to rebel fm? Neogaf fan favourite arther said that he'd been told that 'there's no way the Spider-Man footage was real' due to the amount of unique animations hilariously he went on to say anthem footage was defiantly real. This aside the game looks great and I don't mode the odd qte to mix up the gameplay during story missions. Also the original trailer was supberb in 4K!

EA did say that the Anthem footage was actual gameplay on an XBX. That's pretty specific, and not the hedging we usually hear like being in-engine (or nothing at all while they play a vertical slice on a maxed out PC).

Spiderman looks bonkers but I don't get Arthur's point about the animations. Metro's video looked like that, but not seeing that in Spiderman. It looked like real gameplay mixed with cut-scenes throughout.

 

[More_Badass]

I'm starting to think a very, VERY, small minority of people are even complaining about this.

It's also the same people that will get the game anyway.

What some on GAF perceive and what the wider audience perceives are not always in sync. Most people see this and think it looks awesome to see a cool set piece with Spidey action ripped from the comics and an open world game with crazy spectacle

 

[dyergram]

How can you guys listen to that asshole talk? He just makes shit up to make Microsoft sound good. You might think that I'm exaggerating but go and listen to PS4/Xbox One pre-launch podcast. It's ridiculous!

(Which sucks because I really like Anthony, but I don't listen to them at all now...)

I get frustraighted with his obvious bias/preference but for the most part he wears it on his sleeve and his technical knowledge is interesting I think his reviews are generally good. He's like a non cartoon Shane from 1up lol.

 

[Resident_UA]

I get frustraighted with his obvious bias/preference but for the most part he wears it on his sleeve and his technical knowledge is interesting I think his reviews are generally good. He's like a non cartoon Shane from 1up lol.

At least there were people who called out Shane. It made for a fun dynamic. It frustrates me take Arthur seriously just because he pretends to talk with authority...

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I would've thought it was common sense the majority of the game doesn't play like that. They want to more cinematically approach a particular major story segment, and that's great. I'd be surprised if they didn't choose to do so in a game like spiderman. I've always been fine with games doing this.

 

[yanipheonu]

I've yet to see the "all QTEs are shit" argument not sound overly reductive.

A QTE can be done well. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with it.

I actually like the odd QTE sprinkled in with action and exploration. Seemed a fun way to do an action setpiece in the Spiderman demo.

 

[meerak]

I'm embarassed at how people reacted about this stuff and that the developers even have to fucking say anything is some eye rolling shit. It must be so annoying to have ignorance just run buck wild over every project. Like what stupid concern will be headline material next? Web is unlimited, so the game is for babies?

1. It was obvious the game would be swinging and combat focused, you know, based on the entire history of SM games, nvm who was making it.

2. The QTE sequences we were shown don't have straightforward mechanical solutions.

3. In a way, this is positive. If the only negative people could find was some classic ten year old complaint they made up, well, not bad.

4. We should be far more concerned with the basic quest/side-quest structure and mechanical depth of combat/swinging than how many QTE moments there are in the game's story missions. What do the skill trees look like? How is the map divied up? What are we swinging to? How many pickpocketers will I have to deal with everytime I cross a street? Most importantly, can I ride a bicycle as Peter Parker?

5. Beyond all this the only thing that matters is how dress up works in this game. Costumes, customizability, let's do it!

 

[Dremorak]

Wasnt this obvious?

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Anybody listen to rebel fm? Neogaf fan favourite arther said that he'd been told that 'there's no way the Spider-Man footage was real' due to the amount of unique animations hilariously he went on to say anthem footage was defiantly real. This aside the game looks great and I don't mode the odd qte to mix up the gameplay during story missions. Also the original trailer was supberb in 4K!

I think the Anthem footage was "real" and done in engine. However you want to define that is up to you. You can definitely see a bunch of the deficiencies in it's rendering techniques if you look close enough at the trailer. Especially with texture pop-in on the ground and water reflections. Lots of stuff that would be perfect otherwise.

As far as Spider-Man? I'll believe them until I see reason not too. I definitely don't think animations are going to look that great and blend that well outside of those QTE sections of the game though.

 

[Lifeline]

Anybody listen to rebel fm? Neogaf fan favourite arther said that he'd been told that 'there's no way the Spider-Man footage was real' due to the amount of unique animations hilariously he went on to say anthem footage was defiantly real. This aside the game looks great and I don't mode the odd qte to mix up the gameplay during story missions. Also the original trailer was supberb in 4K!

Wasn't Spider-Man actually played to the press multiple times during the demonstrations they did. For anthem we just have that video, no live demonstrations.

 

[silva1991]

I'm starting to think a very, VERY, small minority of people are even complaining about this.

It's also the same people that will get the game anyway.

Starting to think? it was always the case. Not saying it isn't valid criticism, but the vast majority of the target audience will either love them or just don't mind them.

 

[Falchion]

It'll turn out fine I'm sure, the gameplay itself looks like a lot of fun.

 

[Spinluck]

I am glad that gamers are speaking out against them. The fact that Insomniac is responding means that gamers have won. If gamers said nothing in Rockstar fiasco, no change would happen.

The next time a developer thinks about using QTEs to drive a setpiece, they are going to look at the backlash that Spider-Man received. The message is clear: Gamers don't like them in any form no matter how many fancy polygons, textures, moves, camera angles, and special effects you layer on top of them. They are not cool.

It's an interesting discussion. Are QTEs ever okay? Is there a way to design blockbuster moments around your core gameplay mechanics instead of separating them out into "Blockbuster moments" ? I'd argue yes.

Button prompts on their own are not bad when they serve to enhance the experience, but the problem is relying on them to drive the coolest parts of your setpieces. The other problem is it doesn't make sense in the context of the gameplay. Like why am I pushing triangle to make Spider-Man duck when I can't duck in the game by hitting the triangle button. It's so random. Honestly, it seems like the Insomniac designed this setpiece because they thought we would get bored if we didn't randomly hit a whole lot buttons feverishly every once and awhile.

It's a weird disconnect between the core gameplay and setpieces. The first Uncharted was filled with loads of non interactive button-mashing Summer Blockbuster moments that felt so isolated from the core game. Quiet frankly, all these moments were rubbish and hindered the overall game.

Naughty Dog went back to the drawing board with Uncharted 2 and said we want to make our summer blockbuster moments playable. They built an entire moving traversal system for the game just to accomplish this goal and it drove the whole development of the game. Their setpieces became a part of their core mechanics instead of being separated out.

God Of War was another game that relied on QTEs for blockbuster moments. Now the team has designed the blockbuster moments around the core gameplay mechanics in the latest God Of War.

As the gaming medium matures, great developers have found a way to design around QTEs and as a result their games have been better.

Most people don't care.

And the outage against it is completely hyperbolic.

It's not lazy, it's a way to incorporate that specific moment the best they can with that amount of polish.

Not every set piece moment is feasible with 100% control and they don't have to be if they are well executed.

The need to have control over every little moment is overrated.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

This QTE concern remembers me when guerrilla games showed horizon and people were overly concerned about Alloy comments during the demo saying it was to much and that was annoying and putting people off the game etc... in the end the game come out and is awesome..

Internet is such a weird place sometimes...

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

This QTE concern remembers me when guerrilla games showed horizon and people were overly concerned about Alloy comments during the demo saying it was to much and that was annoying and putting people off the game etc... in the end the game come out and is awesome..

Internet is such a weird place sometimes...

Nah better comparison is when they showed the tall neck off and what it did and ppl lost their mind and that's all you heard about regardless of what they showed after. Even when they show open world gameplay I highly doubt the Qte concerns will go away they will remain. Once it becomes a meme it's pretty much gonna stick and take over every thread after

 

[tmac456]

I'm embarassed at how people reacted about this stuff and that the developers even have to fucking say anything is some eye rolling shit. It must be so annoying to have ignorance just run buck wild over every project. Like what stupid concern will be headline material next? Web is unlimited, so the game is for babies?

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Bergerac]

Pfft. Life is a QTE.

 

[R_thanatos]

I am glad that gamers are speaking out against them. The fact that Insomniac is responding means that gamers have won. If gamers said nothing in Rockstar fiasco, no change would happen.

The next time a developer thinks about using QTEs to drive a setpiece, they are going to look at the backlash that Spider-Man received. The message is clear: Gamers don't like them in any form no matter how many fancy polygons, textures, moves, camera angles, and special effects you layer on top of them. They are not cool.

I don't understand this part .. Some people don't like it , sure ... But if the message is "that we don't like them "? I don't even see where you've got this conclusion. All insomniac did was to answer that the game is not full of them and it's just a key moment. just like all the games before that used them this way , and the many who will.

At best people voiced their concerns and the devs said that your concerns are NOT founded in reality.
Set pieces with QTE are not going away , spiderman have them , god of war have them , uncharted have them and the list goes on What is the alternative ? Not do set pieces ? critically acclaimed games have set pieces. The idea that gamers don't like QTE in set pieces is a battle that is way too late. a vast majority of people expect the QTE and plenty don't mind the QTEs

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

Nah better comparison is when they showed the tall neck off and what it did and ppl lost their mind and that's all you heard about regardless of what they showed after. Even when they show open world gameplay I highly doubt the Qte concerns will go away they will remain. Once it becomes a meme it's pretty much gonna stick and take over every thread after

Unfortunelly completely agree my friend.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Anybody listen to rebel fm? Neogaf fan favourite arther said that he'd been told that 'there's no way the Spider-Man footage was real' due to the amount of unique animations hilariously he went on to say anthem footage was defiantly real. This aside the game looks great and I don't mode the odd qte to mix up the gameplay during story missions. Also the original trailer was supberb in 4K!

Like I said in the thread that was first mentioned in, if he actually believes that then why isn't he reporting it on Polygon? Because what he's saying and what those "developers" are claiming is that Insomniac faked multiple gameplay demos in front of people. That's a rather serious accusation and seems like one that shouldn't be relegated to a brief mention on a podcast.

 

[zMiiChy-]

I can't take anyone seriously who bemoans QTE's that much.

I don't like them either, but the running representation of them in that trailer is hardly worth the outcry that resulted.

I'd chalk it up to the most accessible ammo for system warriors.

It's always trendy to dump on platform exclusives, if history has taught us anything.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

We play a video game and are expected to sometimes press a button on the controller during a cutscene...... shocking.

Unless the game is all QTE's (which clearly it isn't) then a few of them from time to time, is totally fine. If people really hate the QTE's so much, just skip the game. Everyone else, enjoy the awesome Spider-Man game.

Insomniac normally make good games, so Spider-Man should be no different.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Most people don't care.

And the outage against it is completely hyperbolic.

It's not lazy, it's a way to incorporate that specific moment the best they can with that amount of polish.

Not every set piece moment is feasible with 100% control and they don't have to be if they are well executed.

The need to have control over every little moment is overrated.

They're good QTEs and bad QTEs. Spider-Man looks more aligned with typical boring QTEs.

Compare the energy and feedback you get with QTEs in a Platinum game. They do an amazing job of making you feel like you're playing the cutscene. Spider-Man just looks like a normal cutscene with button prompts tacked on.

 

[Mass Effect]

There you go.

QTE in set pieces only.

Much better than just sitting and watching a cutscene.

*remembers Krauser knife fight*

nah fam