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Have there been any definitive studies on gamers "playing" better above 30fps.

bomblord1

Banned
I did my best to condense the question into something that would fit into the title but all nuance is lost there so I would ask that you read the OP. This is not a debate about consoles vs PC's or even an attempt to ignite some fanboy war this is legitimate curiosity on my part. I've attempted to google this myself on multiple occasions both out of spite to someone, in attempts to win an argument, and just randomly out of curiosity. I've thought about making threads on it as well but I was honestly scared it would just turn into people insulting me over even daring to ask a question that seems to be common sense and deriding me as some form of ignorant fanboy.

Let's start out with 60fps looks objectively better than 30fps anyone with a pair of eyes can see this when both are put together even someone as insensitive to it as I am. I am in no way arguing 30fps should be considered as good as 60fps in any scenario if 60fps is an option it looks objectively better. The human eye can tell a difference in FPS even above 60fps so it's not a matter of if we can see it or not

So to the question at hand, while on the surface this sounds simple I feel like it is a bit more nuanced than "more frames means you perform better". What I want to know is when comparing a game running at 30hz to a game running at 60hz do the extra frames amount to just eye candy or does it translate to objectively better performance on the part of the player? As far as I know the average human reaction time is well well below the difference between individual frames of 30fps. I see the input delay argument a lot but with human reaction time being at .25 seconds for visual stimulus it's equivalent to about 8 frames at 30fps or 16 at 60 fps. I've thought this over and I really can't comprehend how human reaction time can possibly get better after the flicker fusion threshold when an image starts being interpreted as connected motion by our eyes. However, I could obviously be wrong and the way I'm connecting the dots could be wrong that's why studies are important. Which is why I've attempted to look up data. I've tried googling questions similar in content to "How do gamers do in identical scenarios when running at different (assumed to be locked) framerates" among other things. However, most of what comes up in my research is just old posts that amount forums users bickering about things like whether the human eye can see higher than 30fps (it can). The best example I managed to find to an in depth analysis on the subject comes from Eurogamer and their conclusion is basically we don't know but frame pacing and input lag make a bigger difference than framerate.

So the question is, should console titles be allowed to operate at their absolute fastest? Or should performance be capped in order to enforce the kind of consistency that Paul Rustchynsky talks about?

The short response is that there is no definitive answer. Different games target different experiences with different priorities, and gamers themselves have their own personal opinions on what works best. However, by looking at key titles, we can build up a picture of what works for us, which perhaps puts some of our tech analysis pieces on specific games into context.


Other than that there's a few random things I've found around the internet such as a quip in a PC gamer article about games not playing better above 20fps however there wasn't a lot backing that up.

He’s not saying that we can’t notice a difference between 20 Hz and 60 Hz footage. “Just because you can see the difference, it doesn’t mean you can be better in the game,” he says. “After 24 Hz you won’t get better, but you may have some phenomenological experience that is different.” There’s a difference, therefore, between effectiveness and experience.

So with that somewhat lengthy breakdown out of the way. Are there any studies on this? I have no issues with personal opinions on the matter or anecdotal evidence but I'm more curious if there is any hard data on gamer performance above 30fps. Thanks in advance for any answers and I once again plead for tame responses.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Empirically, a higher framerate means less input lag, however I'd wager the extent to which that manifests as a perceptible or otherwise appreciable difference is something of a YMMV thing.
 

Rellik

Member
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RomeoDog

Banned
When you input controls into your controller and the tv displays what've input you can more quickly move onto the next input. At 60FPS you get better input response this is fact.
 

ViolentP

Member
Some people can play games at 20fps. Kinda hard to throw science at them when their enjoyment is equal to ours.
 
I don't really need any studies to confirm what my eyes can see. 60fps is objectively better, and anything that tells you otherwise is PR speech.
 

MUnited83

For you.
Input delay gets a lot better, and 60 frames per second is double the information going to the user which is extremely important for reflex and reaction based stuff. I mean there's a reason every fighter out there runs at 60fps.
 

molnizzle

Member
There's less of a delay for your inputs to be reflected on screen.

Don't need a an in-depth study to prove that less input lag results in a more responsive experience.
 
Some people can play games at 20fps. Kinda hard to throw science at them when their enjoyment is equal to ours.

I got through Dark Souls 1 and Evil Within even though their framerates are kinda garbage and I enjoyed them. That doesn't mean that having those games at 60fps wouldn't have made them objectively better due to more precision.
 
Empirically, a higher framerate means less input lag, however I'd wager the extent to which that manifests as a perceptible or otherwise appreciable difference is something of a YMMV thing.

This. I also think that focusing for long stretches at a time on a game with inconsistent/lower framerate tires out your eyes faster than a game running at smooth 60 or higher framerates. At least I know it does for me.
 

Rellik

Member
I always thought GTA V was the best 30 vs. 60 comparison because there is a vsync bug on the PC version that will start you at 60 and then throw you down to 30 and it's immediately noticeable. You go from gliding around Los Santos to immediately walking through mud.
 
I mean, a higher frame rate is more visual information that your brain can process.

Do we have impirical proof that more visual information allows one to play better? Probably not, but I'm also not bothered by assuming that is the case.
 

cuate

Banned
I wish every single game ran at 60 fps. it's a vastly superior experience.

@ OP, pro players always play at 60 fps minimum, of course it's better.
 
The picture on your screen updates faster, meaning your inputs show up on-screen faster which makes the game feel more responsive which, for me, makes the game play better.

30fps is totally fine for certain types of games, but for fast-paced shooters and action games, 60 is far, FAR superior.
 
I recall Ready at Dawn doing something to noticeably reduce input lag in The Order: 1886 — a 30 FPS title — but I don't remember what it was specifically. I know this has been done with other 30 FPS titles.
 

ViolentP

Member
I got through Dark Souls 1 and Evil Within even though their framerates are kinda garbage and I enjoyed them. That doesn't mean that having those games at 60fps wouldn't have made them objectively better due to more precision.

I just question the importance of precision when enjoyment is already in the front seat. I'm a huge proponent for 60FPS, by the way. I personally can't deal with 30 without constantly drawing my attention to it.
 

5taquitos

Member
60 fps is objectively better.

Plenty of games play fine at 30 (or less), but none would suffer if they were at 60 (provided they were designed for higher framerates).
 
You don't need studies to prove this. As framerate gets higher, input response improves. As input response improves, the game feels more responsive to your actions. As the game responds better to your actions, you feel more in control of what you are doing. As you feel more in control, you are allowed more freedom and creativity in how you choose to play the game. Higher framerate also means more visual information in a shorter amount of time, allowing you to react and plan accordingly at a much faster and natural rate. Higher framerate (to which there might not be a ceiling) means a vastly superior game playing experience.

Simple.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I mean, a higher frame rate is more visual information that your brain can process.

Do we have impirical proof that more visual information allows one to play better? Probably not, but I'm also not bothered by assuming that is the case.
.....What?
 
OP, you don't need a study.

Take your favorite 60 fps game on PC. Now use your driver settings to limit it to 30 fps and tell me you don't notice a difference immediately.
 

Soodanim

Member
It's disappointing to see how many opinions have been posted in response to a call for actual studies. That's exactly what OP wanted to not get, so well done guys - you did absolutely nothing.
 
I always thought GTA V was the best 30 vs. 60 comparison because there is a vsync bug on the PC version that will start you at 60 and then throw you down to 30 and it's immediately noticeable. You go from gliding around Los Santos to immediately walking through mud.

That's not a bug, it's because of double buffered Vsync. You can fix it by forcing triple buffering.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Studies have shown that 60fps objectively has less input lag than 30fps.

If you're a person who enjoys input lag, then 60fps plays objectively worse than 30fps.

So vice versa for most other gamers.
 

EGM1966

Member
I'll never get why most 30fps vs 60fps discussion ends up about visuals and seeing the difference.

That's not the main benefit of 60fps and most people will guenuinely struggle to see the difference unless attuned to it.

It's about the feel of 60fps and the difference it makes to playing a game. Mostly - unless we're talking something like Life is Strange where speed of response we is irrelevant, 60fps is better because your sense of control and alignment with on screen activity is smoother and faster.

So yes it mostly makes games better because most games are improved with less lag and faster response.

It does look better too if you're looking for it in the motion of the game but that's mostly an irrelevant benefit I'd argue next to the control benefits.

That said a well designed 30fps game with low latency and lag can feel pretty good too.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
No, researchers don't undertake studies on unquantifiable subjective internet arguments

It's not subjective. Higher framerate = less input delay which improves responsiveness which makes games play better. I am not saying 30 FPS can't be fun, but 60 FPS is better.

I have a 144hz and that's fun too but 60 is still super good
 

higemaru

Member
When did sub 60 start to become normal? I've been playing consoles my whole life so I never really paid much attention to it but based on what little I've picked up, it was around the PS1 era that games started to run at sub-60 (sub-30 in many cases)?
 
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