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If fighting games want to be mainstream esports, they need less fanservice

DrArchon

Member
pt_cammy.jpg


Last night at EVO, we had a repeat of last year's performance. Not from the players, but from ESPN. We had them come up on stage and say to the players "Hey, would you mind changing your costume? We can't show this chick's asshole hanging out on national television."

Thus, instead of Kazunoko rocking classic green leotard Cammy for most of top 8, we instead saw the classy alt costume you see above. Last year, a similar incident occurred with a player using R. Mika and being forced to switch to a slightly less revealing outfit. Again, not a huge loss. But it begs the question. What if there wasn't a suitable alt? What if the character in question was Laura, with her boobs hanging out? Would they have let it rock, or would they have actually said "No, you have to switch"?

Shouldn't Capcom and other fighting game developers be getting the message at this point? Their games can't be on TV with women dressed like this or this, but they still keep putting these character designs in their games and making deals for big esports appearances.

This seems to be a problem unique to fighting games, to me at least. MOBAs don't zoom in on the character models enough for any problematic designs to be noticeable, Rocket League doesn't have humans, FPS move so fast as to make focusing on any single character model almost impossible (and only Overwatch has any sexy women for the most part). But stupid sexy women are fighting game culture at this point. They've been there since the beginning. Some franchises are built off of them, like Dead of Alive and numerous smaller anime titles.

It's one thing to have alt costumes be sexy. Those can easily be banned. But Capcom needs to make sure that default costumes are fit for all ages to look at, and they need to make sure that every female character has a least one costume that's OK to look at on TV. That's my idea anyway.
 

Chindogg

Member
MK seems to be one of the highest selling mainstream games.

SFV was on TBS and ESPN2. Injustice 2 is following suit next EL season.

Smash 4 was on Disney XD. With Bayonetta.

They seem to be doing alright for now.

Also those two examples you gave were alt costumes, not the defaults.
 

Dugna

Member
Or the creators don't care about things like ESPN and keep their current and growing fans happy as Evo and esport livestreams grow more and more.
 

Riposte

Member
Rather fighting games remain as they are and """esports""" be shaped around the game rather than the other way around. I also think it's irrelevant to whether a game succeeds or not.
 
Although some people would lose their minds, I would be A-OK with them replacing the 'default' costume for a few characters (like Cammy and Mika) to something more TV-friendly - just leave the classic outfits in as extras. Removing stuff from the game is bad, but options are good. Make the default whatever you need.

In the case of Cammy, honestly... I love that character, she's my main and always has been, but the cargo pants look used in some official art/a lot of cosplay/the SF movie from the 90s is actually arguably better. I've always felt the leotard thing is dumb, especially in her Delta Red design.

1wUmfuv.jpg
 
Laura's bonita alt always gets me, it's soooo over the top.

But I'm of two minds about this. I like Mika's default outfit and think it makes sense for her as a wrestler. I don't think one size fits all here, all revealing costumes aren't bad. But it's American TV so of course they're gonna be gun shy about skimpy women, despite cheerleading being a huge thing.
 

jtb

Banned
Forget the economics. How about doing it because you have a modicum of dignity?

It's an embarassment.
 

Anura

Member
I kinda wish fighting games would tone down the fanservice regardless. If I wanted to play a fighting game, while also not wanting to deal with that stuff, my choices are almost completely limited to older smash games. Fanservice is fine, but give me options to play a fighter without it.
 
Shouldn't Capcom and other fighting game developers be getting the message at this point? Their games can't be on TV with women dressed like this or this, but they still keep putting these character designs in their games and making deals for big esports appearances.
Three words: Female beach volleyball

This isn't unique to videogames. Acting as if normal sports don't pull this shit is silly
 
Well, that or companies could get over it. AHH BOOBIES, OH NO! (this is looking at it separately from a respecting women standpoint, because we know that's not what most advertisers actually care about when it comes to this, sadly.)

Or, they could just... have alternate costumes like they currently do.
 

Puruzi

Banned
Nah, doesn't need less fanservice at all.

Just use a different costume if espn or whatever wants to bitch about it
 

Kthulhu

Member
But Capcom needs to make sure that default costumes are fit for all ages to look at

It's a T rated game. Maybe ESPN should do their research before broadcasting footage of a game that contains content they object to instead of making the community bend to their advertisers' whims.
 

DrArchon

Member
The "mainstream" esports has just as much fanservice skins/costumes.

Again, this isn't as much of a problem for those games as it is for fighters. The camera in LOL and DOTA is zoomed way the fuck out so you can't see characters in detail there, there's no humans in Rocket League, and erratic camera control in FPS games makes focusing on a single character model more difficult

Compare that to a fighter like SFV with two characters on screen equidistant from the camera at all times except when it zooms in even more for supers and other cinematic moves. There's a clear level of difference.
 

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
I like the costume in the OP better than OG Cammy, but OG Cammy is more iconic because that's just how I've come to know her.

I don't agree with the idea of reducing fanservice partially because I like it sometimes. Overdoing it for male and female characters both is fine by me, but I imagine I'm somewhat of the minority there.
 

LiK

Member
If no one cares about scantily clad ladies in WWE then why should we care about fictional game characters wearing skimpy outfits as well? FYI, WWE has plenty of children watching too.
 
Optional Fanservice dlc that helps fund the game should be no more? Because esports? Really? So what should Capcom do in it's place to make money?

Make a better game? Har Har
Charge for arcade mode?

SFV had to have Sony's help to fund the development. Then it was released and sold poorly. Are we really going to fault them for trying to sell what they can to who they can?
 

Jeffrey

Member
Is tv 60fps yet? Might just be me but I feel like framerate makes a noticeable impact on my enjoyment for watching high lvl esports as well.

Aren't some sports broadcasted at 60fps? Or maybe only online streams?
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
I don't know why the US is so against nudity. I'm visiting the US now and literally ever second girl is wearing low effort skin tight leggings or whatever as pants with obscene ass definition. Is skin that much worse.
 

Manu

Member
MK seems to be one of the highest selling mainstream games.

SFV was on TBS and ESPN2. Injustice 2 is following suit next EL season.

Smash 4 was on Disney XD. With Bayonetta.

They seem to be doing alright for now.

Also those two examples you gave were alt costumes, not the defaults.

MK has toned down the sexy designs considerably though.
 
They're not 100% of the way there, but Netherrealm seems like they've toned it down a BIT with Injustice 2, when compared to their previous games.
 

LordKasual

Banned
If people have a problem with Cammy

I can't imagine what happens when Urien starts the match and burns all his fucking clothes off

Cammy is fully clothed, I don't really see an issue with her. You might get flustered at Chun Li's special costume or Mika in general, but that's about it.
 

moeman

Member
Three words: Female beach volleyball

This isn't unique to videogames. Acting as if normal sports don't pull this shit is silly

014Olympic2012Beachfront.jpg


So sexualized and full of fanservice....

That's a silly argument to say that normal sports overtly sexualize women to any degree or extent that video games in general do. The women in beach volleyball choose what they wear, and their attire has a functional purpose. The models in fighting games do not. What they wear is chosen for them by the designer. Show me a female who battles on the front lines in a war or fights wearing clothes like Cammy or Laura. Even female UFC fighters wear clothing that is functional.
 

DrArchon

Member
They're not 100% of the way there, but Netherrealm seems like they've toned it down a BIT with Injustice 2, when compared to their previous games.

They toned it down a ton just from MK9 to MKX. Compare Sonya's atrocious MK9 design to her MKX one. She looks like a legit special forces agent in X, as opposed to a porn star actress in 9.
 

Riposte

Member
Again, this isn't as much of a problem for those games as it is for fighters. The camera in LOL and DOTA is zoomed way the fuck out so you can't see characters in detail there, there's no humans in Rocket League, and erratic camera control in FPS games makes focusing on a single character model more difficult

Compare that to a fighter like SFV with two characters on screen equidistant from the camera at all times except when it zooms in even more for supers and other cinematic moves. There's a clear level of difference.

Problem as in an observed, measurable effect on the game's popularity or problem as in it goes against your taste? You are doing a pretty poor job of justifying the former.

More popular games are not necessarily less sexualized (you acknowledge, but do not dwell upon Overwatch). Your hand waving of MOBAs comes off as pretty weak since the (worldwide/asian) audience is possibly more apathetic to these concerns, which is reflected in the marketing. The fact SFV is on ESPN anyway means it actually isn't shutting down opportunities, there is simply some compromise involved (and only sometimes, at that).
 

I-hate-u

Member
Regardless of ESPORTS, Capcom took it too far with SFV. Maybe that was always their vision and the technology is finally at a level to facilitate what they think of, but they need someone to reel in their shit from 10 to maybe a 2.
 

Nephtes

Member
I thought this was going to be a thread about a random Final Fight boss in SFV to pay fan service to hard core Final Fight fans (do those exist any more?)
Boy was I wrong...
 
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