Basketball
Member
What's you're agenda ?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I think it's time to shed the idea that Street Fighter V is a bad game.
- Thread starter Dartastic
- Start date
I gave the game a fair shot, but they ruined my character and have done very little to try and get my attention back. $30 season passes for half baked characters and the lack of Arcade mode really damper everything.
I think Capcom's attitude more than anything, is the biggest turn off for me. My hope is now with Arc and Bandai, they seem to get it.
I think Capcom's attitude more than anything, is the biggest turn off for me. My hope is now with Arc and Bandai, they seem to get it.
Thats pretty fucked up. But not related to fighting games? She plays counter strike or something
There was a guy in here saying how Tekken would take over SF in the scene.
lol
Tekken 7 didn't deliver shit after 2 years in arcades and KOF looks like shit yet they get a free pass. SFV, visually, actually looks like one of the best in the business and the animations are top notch. Anyway, even if you think that it doesn't "deliver" the irony is that it's still the most played, watched and the most competitive fighter in the FGC. Just look at EVO. They deffo need a SSFV update though.
All those people you quoted are absolutely ridiculous. What do you even say that kind of garbage. Evo Top 8 was absolutely incredible, it had pretty much everything you could ask of an Evo Top 8, you had top notch gameplay and drama.
See this is the kind of nonsense that really bothers me.
I own GGXrd on PC. If I want to play the latest gameplay update to the game, I have to buy Revelator AND THEN I have to pay for another further update. That's $50. Whether I care about the new characters or not. I've been effectively left behind.
But please, tell me how ArcSys gets it.
p.s. Xrd/Revelator has DLC characters on top of this shit.
Omnistalgic
Member
Honestly, not trying to be rude, but isn't your opinion worth very little since you really haven't even played the game?
I can tell you from personal experience, high level play is very very satisfying for the winner. SFV is good and has potential to be great, like VF5 great IMO. This was the most diverse cast in top 8 ever.
Turbanator
Member
That's still incredible to me to this day. That makes ST damage look meager.
Nobody gives them too much flack for that (myself included) because nobody thought another KoF would even exist. Not to mention SNK probably had a budget of like $35 and a McCafe coupon.
Thank God Capcom are not pandering to entitled and whiny people like you and thank GOD the dire mess that was SFIV will never come back ever again.
Turbanator
Member
killdatninja
Banned
My opinion hasn't really changed since I played the beta. The core game play itself, is pretty damn decent but unfortunately wrapped around terrible game design choices and mechanics. Balance has also been suspect, but that's always been something capcom never really got "right" ever.
There's a Turner employee tournament at E-League right now lol. They are using the same studio.
https://www.twitch.tv/eleaguesocial
https://www.twitch.tv/eleaguesocial
9 different characters in top 8, no repeats. You can do much worse
If your first example of 'being careful" with a fireball game is fear of an ultra, I'm sorry, but you have to step back.
In SF V you have to be careful all the time, that's a good thing and that's why we said it's not stupid. You should be careful on how you spam your fireballs. You should be careful how to properly use them on pressure.
As I said before, I play Juri which her fireball game allows me to keep the pressure on my opponent. I need to charge the damn fireball and I can use it for setups, combos, keep pressure, knockdown on VT, make some of my specials safe or even frame trap my opponent. There' s plenty of uses in there, people just need to learn how to use it properly.
In SF IV those strategies were good because of the amount of gray health or damage you gained on a single fireball. He throws me once, but if he absorbs or take two fireballs (one EX for good measure and keep the opponent away) I am still on the lead.
SF V one combo, even without resources, hurts much more. That's why the fireball game is scary, because the fireball game now is properly risky at all times.
Yes, they do have to commit. Please show me a character that can jump in on a fireball on reaction.
I can punish fireballs on reaction, but they cost me an EX bar at least.
This is how the game is. If they jump wrong, you can anti-air and you have meter, good damage, good positioning too and it's your turn on the offense.
I also seen Ryu's VT hurting a lot of people. In S2 much less since he got nerfed badly, but the chip damage on his fireballs, pressure and the buff he gets on the CA (the only one in the game that increases the stun bar IIRC) is also no joke.
SF V changed a lot even on the classics characters. You can call it good, bad, but playing it safe is straight wrong.
crimzonflame
Member
How you gonna have Karin but no Sakura?
( yeah I feel like that was a mistake)
this error will be corrected in the next season (fortunately)
qcb hp
*insert Karin laugh*
Juri also has a qcb hk, but it's too unsafe. If your reaction is even a little bit too late, it will hurt. At least she's got the charged V skill for that.
Osukaa
Member
I think it looks like a good game I didn't really care for SF4 but SF5 looks pretty good to me. I honestly only played it for like an hour at a friends but I like what I played. I think im gonna jump in and make the purchase soon. Abigail has pushed me into buy territory.
Vroom Vroom!!
Vroom Vroom!!
You seem to be negelcting to mention that GGxrd was a COMPLETE AND FUNCTIONING GAME. Fully featured 100%, no half ass "We'll do it later" bullshit.
Revelator was not full price, it was more than just a character pack and it was quality. So yea, im not being a hypocrite.
I don't see how either of your points contradict each other. They can both be shitty in different ways.
I would say to wait and see if there's a sale around because of EVO recently. Then buy the game with both season passes should cost you around $40-$60. With both seasons, you will have enough FM to buy all the characters from S3 (and maybe even S4) and some stages.
dcx4610
Member
I don't like it at all. Granted, my main complaint is the art style and graphics. I absolutely can't stand the art style. The big bulky characters, the clunky animation and stiff controls. It feels closer to SF2 while not being as good instead of an evolution like SF3.
Just not a fan at all. It's disappointing that they called it 5 when it's a souped up SF4.
Just not a fan at all. It's disappointing that they called it 5 when it's a souped up SF4.
I haven't played it since juri came out, and that's mostly because I hate her changes. They gimped the two things I loved about her (good fire balls and great normals) and I just dont enjoy her anymore. I guess she still has a fire ball but it's almost exclusively relegated to pressure. Considering her old fire balls did that too, it's a pretty dumb change.
Other than that I find it just boring to watch. I don't know why, but I just do.
Other than that I find it just boring to watch. I don't know why, but I just do.
KOF14 gets a pass because it comes from a studio that was thought to be dead and made into a pachinko factory. It gets a pass because it launched with 50 fucking characters built from the ground up and not sprite dumps like MvC2. It gets a pass because they launched with standard modes like arcade, survival, time attack, some new modes like party versus, and lots of stages, icons, titles, artwork etc.
The only 2 things it got rightfully shit on were netcode at launch and visuals. The netcode went from bad to fucking godlike within a couple months, and the visuals were updated nicely in a 2.0 update, making the game look more cohesive than MVCI right now. They also rebalanced the game, added free colors. Oh, and their 4 DLC characters were some of the most requested characters, including Rock Howard which no one expected in a KOF for a long time.
This is why KOF is an example of competition shitting on Capcom. Heck, it might even be an indie game with how dead SNK was considered before it came out. They worked their asses harder than Capcom and gave a dream roster, and did a better netcode with peanuts for a budget.
There's no justice when a game that good sells so few copies and is used for bad faith arguments online.
The only 2 things it got rightfully shit on were netcode at launch and visuals. The netcode went from bad to fucking godlike within a couple months, and the visuals were updated nicely in a 2.0 update, making the game look more cohesive than MVCI right now. They also rebalanced the game, added free colors. Oh, and their 4 DLC characters were some of the most requested characters, including Rock Howard which no one expected in a KOF for a long time.
This is why KOF is an example of competition shitting on Capcom. Heck, it might even be an indie game with how dead SNK was considered before it came out. They worked their asses harder than Capcom and gave a dream roster, and did a better netcode with peanuts for a budget.
There's no justice when a game that good sells so few copies and is used for bad faith arguments online.
KOF hasn't look like shit since January. You're just trolling for trolling's sake. Also, not like a game has to look like a stunner to run circles around Capcom. NRS animations might give you epilepsy but that game is unanimously considered better than SFV, even if the animations are shit and high level Aquaman gameplay's a joke.
Previously I said the OP was right. Now I'd like to elaborate slightly.
Many people just don't understand that Street Fighter V is a duelling game about one hit kills.
Everything else is just a glancing hit or a near miss.
It's a game about mastering space and controlling the opponent, as well as making the right guesses based on their behaviour. Countering all this (guessing the guess) is of course the full circle of the loop.
SFV's "crush counter" is such a double edged sword, but it's a beautiful thing. For me, I really disagree with the opinions of this game as aggression heavy and I think the CC promotes defence. It's why I tell new players never to play as Shotos. They kill themselves with DPs. In SFV, the DP has to be used smartly or completely randomly. The latter rarely works against an experienced player consistently. The former is very hard to achieve for many players. So this is a big change and I see where it would piss people off, but effectively it's making the thought behind mechanics more meaningful.
So when you play SF at a high level, you expect to lose / win at any moment. The next hit could always kill. That's the idea. Fair not to like it, but moreso I feel it is intensely misunderstood. Potentially, SF has *always* been like this - have to think about it more - it's just SFV really focused down on it.
A lot of players, and this is partially a generational thing as well, have a hard time accepting their failure and how easily it seems to come. They don't want to spend the time to get better, and the truth is the internet is really misleading for them in a lot of ways. At locals I recently played a Ken who had been at it maybe 1 year. His fundamentals were absolutely awful. He had watched a lot of videos about tech and was so focused on "setups" and getting in in weird creative ways that I just sonned him so hard, over and over again. And no, I don't have setups either. He was a nice guy and we talked a lot and tried to impart on him some simple wisdom. SFV is mostly about movement. The offence is really hard to see past, but your ultimate goal isn't to be "good at offence". On top of that, because of the extreme echo chamber effect, there is too little belief in defence, which is still a core skill in this game. Don't believe me? Go online and just downback. Don't press anything. Throw anyone that comes close. You just made it to Super Silver with your eyes closed.
For me, SFV is without a doubt my favourite fighting game of the last decade. I've played fighting games since SFII, almost always very casually with brothers and friends, and tried pretty much every major release. VF, Smash, Tekken, SC, BB, GG, MvC and many others. Personally, I've never played a FG I didn't have fun with to some extent, but I have very few that really stuck with me.
From what I see, SFV is a harder game that most SFs have been when it comes to winning consistently. Rush down is extremely easy to blow up at a certain point and so the game falls back on a neutral wish really punishes bad decisions. I think a lot of people spent a lot of time playing the game with very near-sighted goals (I want to win!) and were mad at the game for it not being easy. When that happened, they got even angrier that the SP-side was light.
SFV is a masterpiece in my estimation. The release was a massive failure, but the game is excellent.
- Lots of new unique characters which are actually cool and, you know, UNIQUE. Most fighting games go their entire lives without adding 1 new character to their original roster that is good.
- The legacy characters are beautifully recreated with a passion and eye for detail that is generally unheard of. I've said this before, but, go watch the "Vega hitbox in slow mo" video and tell me that isn't the most beautiful application of ballet and dance you've ever seen in a game. He's a work of art all himself and that's 1 character. Dhalsim, Chun Li, etc. Many of them look and feel incredible.
- Stages. The quiet, moody stages in this game are the best since SFIII and The Last Blade 2.
- The music. FANG and Rashid are instant classic themes.
- Balance. Any character can win. Yes, some MUs are harder than others. But any character can win. Especially thanks to the CC system, you may be down, but never out. One of the most exciting aspects of SFV is when you have no health and the opponent is stacked. Usually, you'd think "well I'm toast". But because there is no death by chip (except super) and because of the CC system, things can feel very different. Most immature opponents will want to RTSD and close out the win, but this puts them at a huge disadvantage. Going in is risky, and so you have a great shot to take the round back. I'm sure everyone has examples of that happening to them, and SFV is a hell of a comeback game.
Many people just don't understand that Street Fighter V is a duelling game about one hit kills.
Everything else is just a glancing hit or a near miss.
It's a game about mastering space and controlling the opponent, as well as making the right guesses based on their behaviour. Countering all this (guessing the guess) is of course the full circle of the loop.
SFV's "crush counter" is such a double edged sword, but it's a beautiful thing. For me, I really disagree with the opinions of this game as aggression heavy and I think the CC promotes defence. It's why I tell new players never to play as Shotos. They kill themselves with DPs. In SFV, the DP has to be used smartly or completely randomly. The latter rarely works against an experienced player consistently. The former is very hard to achieve for many players. So this is a big change and I see where it would piss people off, but effectively it's making the thought behind mechanics more meaningful.
So when you play SF at a high level, you expect to lose / win at any moment. The next hit could always kill. That's the idea. Fair not to like it, but moreso I feel it is intensely misunderstood. Potentially, SF has *always* been like this - have to think about it more - it's just SFV really focused down on it.
A lot of players, and this is partially a generational thing as well, have a hard time accepting their failure and how easily it seems to come. They don't want to spend the time to get better, and the truth is the internet is really misleading for them in a lot of ways. At locals I recently played a Ken who had been at it maybe 1 year. His fundamentals were absolutely awful. He had watched a lot of videos about tech and was so focused on "setups" and getting in in weird creative ways that I just sonned him so hard, over and over again. And no, I don't have setups either. He was a nice guy and we talked a lot and tried to impart on him some simple wisdom. SFV is mostly about movement. The offence is really hard to see past, but your ultimate goal isn't to be "good at offence". On top of that, because of the extreme echo chamber effect, there is too little belief in defence, which is still a core skill in this game. Don't believe me? Go online and just downback. Don't press anything. Throw anyone that comes close. You just made it to Super Silver with your eyes closed.
For me, SFV is without a doubt my favourite fighting game of the last decade. I've played fighting games since SFII, almost always very casually with brothers and friends, and tried pretty much every major release. VF, Smash, Tekken, SC, BB, GG, MvC and many others. Personally, I've never played a FG I didn't have fun with to some extent, but I have very few that really stuck with me.
From what I see, SFV is a harder game that most SFs have been when it comes to winning consistently. Rush down is extremely easy to blow up at a certain point and so the game falls back on a neutral wish really punishes bad decisions. I think a lot of people spent a lot of time playing the game with very near-sighted goals (I want to win!) and were mad at the game for it not being easy. When that happened, they got even angrier that the SP-side was light.
SFV is a masterpiece in my estimation. The release was a massive failure, but the game is excellent.
- Lots of new unique characters which are actually cool and, you know, UNIQUE. Most fighting games go their entire lives without adding 1 new character to their original roster that is good.
- The legacy characters are beautifully recreated with a passion and eye for detail that is generally unheard of. I've said this before, but, go watch the "Vega hitbox in slow mo" video and tell me that isn't the most beautiful application of ballet and dance you've ever seen in a game. He's a work of art all himself and that's 1 character. Dhalsim, Chun Li, etc. Many of them look and feel incredible.
- Stages. The quiet, moody stages in this game are the best since SFIII and The Last Blade 2.
- The music. FANG and Rashid are instant classic themes.
- Balance. Any character can win. Yes, some MUs are harder than others. But any character can win. Especially thanks to the CC system, you may be down, but never out. One of the most exciting aspects of SFV is when you have no health and the opponent is stacked. Usually, you'd think "well I'm toast". But because there is no death by chip (except super) and because of the CC system, things can feel very different. Most immature opponents will want to RTSD and close out the win, but this puts them at a huge disadvantage. Going in is risky, and so you have a great shot to take the round back. I'm sure everyone has examples of that happening to them, and SFV is a hell of a comeback game.
It's obvious, isn't it? I just want to be able to play and watch people play these games without constantly being reminded that fighting game designers like to reduce their female characters to vehicles for titillation and that the majority of the FGC consists of straight guys who eat that shit up.
And also maybe, just maybe, have a single female character I can play as who feels like someone I can self-identify with. Tekken 7 has this in Leo. SFV has no one.
The FGC is not some isolated group. The same issues that plague the greater community of gamers (see: Gamergate, and literally any thread about feminism on gaming side) also show up in the FGC, to predictable effect.
You can deny it all you want to, but my experience speaks for itself. And the game developers are not helping their case any by pandering to these people.
AstroNut325
Member
Slight OT: Where can I watch the top 8 competition that's mentioned in the OP?
LinkSlayer64
Member
Sure it's not bad, but I ain't buying the thing for more than $25 including DLC without an arcade mode.
Since I got time...
Doesn't matter in the case of SNK. This isn't Akira that came back from the dead after 10 years I guess. Or Examu that needs to make a crowd funding campaign to port and localize their last game because they are a small studio.
Ugly as sin though. People complained this when they showed the first trailer and even after the game was out.
Compared to SF V, this is more SP content.
Compared to GG Xrd, this seems lacking a lot.
Bad netcode at launch can kill any game.
At launch, I had very little issues with the netcode of SF V, though their adjustments made it sometimes better and sometimes worse. Now it's much better after they rebuilt it, but I cannot remember any long period of time (maybe launch month, before it had lobbies for 8 people) where it was down right broken, which is a complaint I hear about KOF.
Basically like S1 of SF V ? Returning of popular characters and some unexpected and a balancing after the season was done ?
On top of colors, stages and clothes for the characters ?
Let's not forget that KOF is a 3x3 game. It needs a large roster by necessity.
50 is a large roster even by 3x3 type of games but comparing directly with SF V or any game that is a 1x1 endeavor is really, really wrong. Hell, even BB which is many years old and it's still updating it's roster may have around 40 characters.
That's how many months after release ? Will people wait those months for Capcom to polish MvsC:I visuals ?
Can you say the reason as to why NRS game is "unanimously" considered better than SF V ?
I mean, I won't dispute in terms of SP content, but in terms of the actual fighting, you got some long explanations ahead.
Doesn't matter in the case of SNK. This isn't Akira that came back from the dead after 10 years I guess. Or Examu that needs to make a crowd funding campaign to port and localize their last game because they are a small studio.
Ugly as sin though. People complained this when they showed the first trailer and even after the game was out.
Compared to SF V, this is more SP content.
Compared to GG Xrd, this seems lacking a lot.
Bad netcode at launch can kill any game.
At launch, I had very little issues with the netcode of SF V, though their adjustments made it sometimes better and sometimes worse. Now it's much better after they rebuilt it, but I cannot remember any long period of time (maybe launch month, before it had lobbies for 8 people) where it was down right broken, which is a complaint I hear about KOF.
Basically like S1 of SF V ? Returning of popular characters and some unexpected and a balancing after the season was done ?
On top of colors, stages and clothes for the characters ?
Let's not forget that KOF is a 3x3 game. It needs a large roster by necessity.
50 is a large roster even by 3x3 type of games but comparing directly with SF V or any game that is a 1x1 endeavor is really, really wrong. Hell, even BB which is many years old and it's still updating it's roster may have around 40 characters.
That's how many months after release ? Will people wait those months for Capcom to polish MvsC:I visuals ?
Can you say the reason as to why NRS game is "unanimously" considered better than SF V ?
I mean, I won't dispute in terms of SP content, but in terms of the actual fighting, you got some long explanations ahead.
This. So much this.
The majority of people haven't been saying the gameplay is bad. If anything most have said, since the beginning, that the gameplay is amazing. Just because a few have said the gameplay is bad doesn't mean that's what most were talking about. We all know why SFV is and was shat on, it wasn't for gameplay.
enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec8yHxCT_tk
Sure it's not bad, but I ain't buying the thing for more than $25 including DLC without an arcade mode.
I always despised arcade modes and I was happy Capcom didn't waste any money building one.
They should just address the Survival issues or give us a time attack before throwing more money in the garbage with an arcade mode..
Punished_Snake
Member
Kof 13 is a beautiful game, but they decided to make Kof14 3d and it doesn't look good. Yes, low budget, but why make it 3d while you don't have a budget to make it pretty? Bad decision, but no one will blame them because they aren't Capcom.
Online has problems even after they patched it, it isn't perfect and it isn't better than SFV in regards to net code.
Also Capcom said season 2 character are all new and the old requested characters will be back in season 3 (according to the rumors and leaks). So far Kolin and Ed are popular.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I love SFV but the lack of a proper Arcade mode bothers me and no Survival mode isn't a good replacement for Arcade mode.
I was so disappointed to see a whack character like Abigail announced when Capcom is sitting on a gold mine of Rival Schools characters. I would buy RS characters in a heartbeat if they were announced.
This X 10
I was so disappointed to see a whack character like Abigail announced when Capcom is sitting on a gold mine of Rival Schools characters. I would buy RS characters in a heartbeat if they were announced.
Riposte
Member
I think there is a meme component to some of the hate and you just have to filter out the thoughtful criticisms from the bandwagoning. SFV has been guilty of many things, but it's often goofy when it's used to lift up other games which have done similar things. Then you got stuff like Dragon Ball FighterZ vs. Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinity where the joke is getting way overplayed when both games have never seen a single competitive match. Obviously, DBFZ is killing it in the aesthetics department, but how good it will be competitively remains to be seen. I think seeing a lot of easy jokes on twitter has worn down the appeal of the comparison.
Also, only in a world where the "bad character design" means - exclusively - sexualized female characters does SFIV have better looking characters and art design than SFV. Judging from how character design threads go, perhaps some members of GAF do live in that world, but not everyone suffers from such myopia, so SFV clearly looks better. On the other hand, SFV is trying to play catch up by introducing possibly one of the only designs worse than Rufus in Abigail.
EDIT: In retrospect, Capcom/SFV being overshadowed by its competitors during EVO was mainly in area of marketing. Not to say that isn't important, but it makes me want to be cautious about getting too caught up in hype (and not the good kind).
Also, only in a world where the "bad character design" means - exclusively - sexualized female characters does SFIV have better looking characters and art design than SFV. Judging from how character design threads go, perhaps some members of GAF do live in that world, but not everyone suffers from such myopia, so SFV clearly looks better. On the other hand, SFV is trying to play catch up by introducing possibly one of the only designs worse than Rufus in Abigail.
EDIT: In retrospect, Capcom/SFV being overshadowed by its competitors during EVO was mainly in area of marketing. Not to say that isn't important, but it makes me want to be cautious about getting too caught up in hype (and not the good kind).
I was thinking about making this thread after EVO Top 8.
Although I'm aware of the criticisms lodged against the game and I acknowledge their validity, I still find the game a joy to play. It's damn solid fighting game that wants you to be aggressive. I know that pisses off players who tilt towards defense and footsies, but it's not like that's completely absent in SFV either. If you watched Tokido vs Haitani at this year's EVO, you saw an entire match played in neutral with two guys refusing to let one another inside. It was tense and it was amazing.
All the mechanics are definitively there for a good fighting game. Even if Capcom made a mess of its release and it took them awhile to fix the whole thing, at least we should all agree that the actual game is pretty tight.
Although I'm aware of the criticisms lodged against the game and I acknowledge their validity, I still find the game a joy to play. It's damn solid fighting game that wants you to be aggressive. I know that pisses off players who tilt towards defense and footsies, but it's not like that's completely absent in SFV either. If you watched Tokido vs Haitani at this year's EVO, you saw an entire match played in neutral with two guys refusing to let one another inside. It was tense and it was amazing.
All the mechanics are definitively there for a good fighting game. Even if Capcom made a mess of its release and it took them awhile to fix the whole thing, at least we should all agree that the actual game is pretty tight.