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[nOoblet16]

So, that's why I can't shoot ppl thru fences. We need more golden eye.

This is an interesting bit actually.
The reason for this is because the fence is actually a solid object in games with transparent textures (alpha textures) to give the illusion of it being a chain linked fence that has gaps. So in essence there are no "gaps" to shoot past and your bullets get stopped by the solid object that the fence is.

The only way to get around this is to have the game have a bullet penetration mechanic so that they go past solid objects like walls, doors, wood panels and in this case...chain linked fences. This is why it's not unusual to have games where you can shoot past chain linked fences to also allow you to shoot past other thin objects as it's already incorporated into the design. Unless the developers specifically want this bullet penetration to only apply to fences and not other objects (for gameplay balancing purpose)

 

[RedSparrows]

Another thing Goldeneye does masterfully is hit reactions on the enemies.
They react differently no matter where you shoot them and have a huge amount of different animations and ways to die depending on where hit.
It really adds to the feel of the combat when enemies reacts so well.
It's a shame no other game has really managed to replicate this to Goldeneyes level.

Agreed, to a point. It's just a bit odd when they grasp their arm, and then resume firing as if nothing happened

 

[Phediuk]

Yes, it did.

No, it didn't.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21319

Half-Life, the debut effort released by the PC-oriented Seattle-area studio a decade ago last month, put Valve on the map and remains its highest seller to date with 9.3 million units sold at retail

Versus 8m for Goldeneye.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Yes, it did.

As of 2004, Half LIfe had sold 8 million copies source. A huge amount of that was surely due to the later boost it got from the Counter Strike mod too.

Goldeneye's last sales figure, reported in 2001 by Nintendo, was 8.1 million. Contemporarily Goldeneye outsold Half Life. I'm sure in the years in between it sold some more copies for $5 on steam, but that would be like counting VC releases of Super Mario Bros in original releases, or the iOS port of GTA3 alongside the original PS2 release.

So it factually hasn't outsold Half Life.

And yes, digital copies of VC games count towards lifetime sales of a game.

 

[daTRUballin]

The true genius of that score is how much variation Kirkhope got out of a single core theme.

Let's not forget Graeme Norgate's and Robin Beanland's contributions to the soundtrack as well. Although Beanland only did the two elevator songs as far as I know.

 

[Phediuk]

So it factually hasn't outsold Half Life.

And as demonstrated already, even just retail copies of Half-Life still outsold Goldeneye.

 

[Xdrive05]

Kind of phenomenal given the extremely limited hardware, right? Golden and PD always seemed unbelievable to be running on a 4mb console. I know the fps was unstable obviously, but still so very impressive.

 

[FyreWulff]

i've already waxed nostalgic about GE and Perfect Dark on this forum before, but i will note one thing that a lot of modern games are missing

the head roll and head bob functionality

It just makes it feel so much better (and you could even toggle them off in PD... which made it obvious that it was sorely missed)

 

[SmokedMeat]

I wish we'd get another James Bond game. I'd even buy Quantum of Solace if it were on Steam. Is Activision still sitting on the license?

 

[FyreWulff]

I wish we'd get another James Bond game. I'd even buy Quantum of Solace if it were on Steam. Is Activision still sitting on the license?

nope. it expired and nobody wants it due to demands from EON (and licensed games mostly becoming reskinned mobile games)

 

[nkarafo]

I suppose it's because modern fps simulate actual bullets, while goldeneye probably worked with a light-gun like system where as long as the aim is on the right kind of pixel, it counts as a good shot.

Whatever the cause, i think it benefits the game greatly. Especially considering how some levels play better with a more stealthy approach so your moves are more calculated.

 

[jroc74]

This is an interesting bit actually.
The reason for this is because the fence is actually a solid object in games with transparent textures (alpha textures) to give the illusion of it being a chain linked fence that has gaps. So in essence there are no "gaps" to shoot past and your bullets get stopped by the solid object that the fence is.

The only way to get around this is to have the game have a bullet penetration mechanic so that they go past solid objects like walls, doors, wood panels and in this case...chain linked fences. This is why it's not unusual to have games where you can shoot past chain linked fences to also allow you to shoot past other thin objects as it's already incorporated into the design. Unless the developers specifically want this bullet penetration to only apply to fences and not other objects (for gameplay balancing purpose)

Wow, interesting indeed.

Funny because cant we get be seen thru fences?

 

[Ahasverus]

This is an interesting bit actually.
The reason for this is because the fence is actually a solid object in games with transparent textures (alpha textures) to give the illusion of it being a chain linked fence that has gaps. So in essence there are no "gaps" to shoot past and your bullets get stopped by the solid object that the fence is.

The only way to get around this is to have the game have a bullet penetration mechanic so that they go past solid objects like walls, doors, wood panels and in this case...chain linked fences. This is why it's not unusual to have games where you can shoot past chain linked fences to also allow you to shoot past other thin objects as it's already incorporated into the design. Unless the developers specifically want this bullet penetration to only apply to fences and not other objects (for gameplay balancing purpose)

Isn't Just modeling the fence be better specially for poly count?

 

[nicoga3000]

I played Goldeneye recently. The controls are so incredibly difficult to grasp onto today considering how refined FPS controls have become. That said, the game does a lot of things well (such as the difficulties being tied to enemy AI AND objectives as already stated in this thread).

N64 is still my favorite console of all time if for no other reason than that sick nostalgia.

 

[johancruijff]

CS is your friend then Op

 

[Raptomex]

Its a shame that the controls have not aged gracefully. It can difficult to make precision shots.

The N64 to GameCube adapter alleviates this big time. So much more comfortable, too.

 

[nkarafo]

I played Goldeneye recently. The controls are so incredibly difficult to grasp onto today considering how refined FPS controls have become.

Have you tried 1.2 solitaire option and holding the controller from it's left side? This way it's similar to modern shooters, just with a d-pad for movement instead of a stick.

 

[D.Lo]

No, it didn't.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21319



Versus 8m for Goldeneye.

I said outsold, not has outsold. At the time both were available, Goldeneye sold more. For its entire retail life Goldeneye was ahead of Half Life. Contemporarily it easily outsold it.

Half Life having a very long tail as a bargain bin game due to PC having no generations does not change the fact that while the console Goldeneye was on was alive, it had sold more copies than Half Life.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I don't really agree with this. Guns are not lasers that go exactly through whatever narrow sliver you point them through. Also when held by a human there's a degree of movement and sway at all times. Not to mention recoil.

GoldenEye was good for it's time but this is an arcadey artifice of it's time. Unless you're making an arcadey shooter, this doesn't seem like an advantage.

 

[nkarafo]

I don't really agree with this. Guns are not lasers that go exactly through whatever narrow sliver you point them through. Also when held by a human there's a degree of movement and sway at all times. Not to mention recoil.

Goldeneye has exactly that. You need to be very steady in order to do these shots. And the more you zoom in, the more movement you get. In fact, aiming with the sniper rifle while fully zoomed in is harder than similar situations in modern games since most of the time there is no way to keep the sights from moving, you have to calculate where the sight will go or shoot during the split second it settled.

 

[nOoblet16]

Wow, interesting indeed.

Funny because cant we get be seen thru fences?

The line of sight can choose to ignore the fences, it'd be like giving enemies a wallhacks for fences, ballistics on the other hand are a different story because the bullets are a physical object in the game, unless the game does bullet penetration or does what Goldeneye did i.e. have the bullets be hitscan and the hit getting registered based on line of sight.

Isn't Just modeling the fence be better specially for poly count?

Nope, a fence using a transparent textures is just a thin flat wall, if you actually model the fence then you are adding more detail which would require more polygons. It's kind of why details like chain linked armour are usually done by shaders like normal maps and parallax maps rather than using actual geometry. If Devs can easily use smokes and mirrors to achieve the same look using less resources then that's what they'll do.

 

[FyreWulff]

Isn't Just modeling the fence be better specially for poly count?

A texture fence is just a billboard, so 2 polygons.

An actual modeled fence would be hundreds of thousands of polygons to millions depending on how long it is.

 

[cackhyena]

R6: Siege let's you shoot through all kinds of gaps.

 

[nOoblet16]

R6: Siege let's you shoot through all kinds of gaps.

It does, you can shoot through a gap as small as a pinky finger and kill someone across the room hah.

 

[SmokedMeat]

R6: Siege let's you shoot through all kinds of gaps.

R6:Siege is on a whole other level.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I would LOVE to dip into that game now and then, but holy hell do those UNSKIPPABLE, SEIZURE INDUCING cutscenes absolutely ruin any chance of that happening.

Haha! I think I've played through it well into double-digits now.

The cut-scenes aren't quite unskippable. There's a particularly obnoxious one in the middle of the Stadium level that can't be skipped (and it is RAGE inducing... no pun intended). There might be one other when the UFE tear up the ghetto, but I think that's it. Usually, the cut-scenes are skippable after they've finished loading. Something like 20-40 seconds?

You could always play the challenge modes or solo the co-op. No cut-secnes in either as I recall. Solo co-op is fucking awesome. Shame they only supported two maps.

 

[hotcyder]

GoldenEye still does plenty of things better than most other games.

I'm honestly surprised that adding additional objectives on higher difficulties didn't catch on.

Controls and Graphics have improved over time - yet no one really noticed or improved on one of Goldeneye's best features (it's certainly my favourite one).

I'd love to see FPS games do this again.

 

[Phediuk]

I said outsold, not has outsold. At the time both were available, Goldeneye sold more. For its entire retail life Goldeneye was ahead of Half Life. Contemporarily it easily outsold it.

Half Life having a very long tail as a bargain bin game due to PC having no generations does not change the fact that while the console Goldeneye was on was alive, it had sold more copies than Half Life.

Wow, so you mean Half-Life not only sold more, but was an evergreen title that kept on selling and selling over a decade, thus having more lasting influence and popularity than Goldeneye?

Agreed.

 

[nkarafo]

Wow, so you mean Half-Life not only sold more, but was an evergreen title that kept on selling and selling over a decade, thus having more lasting influence and popularity than Goldeneye?

Agreed.

Half-life got updates and improvements over the years. It got ported to other consoles, increasing the player base and later it got a Source engine update as well, improving it's graphics quite a bit. As a PC game it also gets better the more powerful your PC is. In 1998 many people probably played the game at the same frame rate as Goldeneye (or worse). But as the hardware gets better and cheaper, more people eventually managed to play it at full settings, higher resolutions and frame rates. It also works on modern PCs so you don't have to have a Windows 98 PC to play it. It's also still available to buy on Steam.

All the above can increase or renew the lifecycle of a game significantly. Goldeneye was never ported. It was stuck on the N64. It never got updated and nobody had a chance to play it at higher resolutions, better frame rates, etc. It didn't even get a VC release. It's also not available to buy anymore since forever, the only way to get it is on the second hand market. So i don't understand how it's fair to do a comparison like this.

I bet if the HD remake would be released now it would sell millions as well.

 

[Markitron]

Half-life got updates and improvements over the years. It even got ported to other consoles and later got a Source engine update, improving it's graphics quite a bit. As a PC game it also gets better the more powerful your PC is. In 1998 many people probably played the game at the same frame rate as Goldeneye (or worse). But as the hardware gets better and cheaper, more people eventually managed to play it at full settings, higher resolutions and frame rates.

All the above can increase or renew the lifecycle of a game significantly. Goldeneye was never ported anywhere else. It was stuck on the N64. It never got updated and nobody had a chance to play it at higher resolutions, better frame rates, etc. It didn't even get a VC release. So i don't understand how it's fair to do a comparison like this.

I bet if the HD remake was released, it would have sold millions as well.

A VC/PSN/XBL version of GoldenEye with online MP would easily sell a million. Easily.

Controls and Graphics have improved over time - yet no one really noticed or improved on one of Goldeneye's best features (it's certainly my favourite one).

I'd love to see FPS games do this again.

It's not just action shooters, you would think that games like Dishonored and Deus Ex would be all over this, yet still they don't bother. Could have been fantastic in MGSV as well.

 

[11redder]

Great thread. I can never speak highly enough of this game. It pushed the genre forward and many of its ideas ended up in other genres while FPS got dumbed down to cinematic corridors with regenerating health.

I played it through on the cinema widescreen mode, which lowered resolution obviously, but dramatically improved frame rate, so give that a go if the frame rate kills it for you.

It's so weird that games like Half Life and Halo get so much credit (Halo in particular gets a lot of 'showed your could do an FPS on a console' credit) when IMO Goldeneye was far more revolutionary, a better designed game, and even a lot more popular (Goldeneye outsold both Half Life and Halo).

It's certainly strange because, at the time, Halo was seen as a natural progression of the controls and gameplay introduced by GE and PD. As far as I recall, Edge explicitly mentioned that fact in their review of CE.

 

[hotcyder]

It's not just action shooters, you would think that games like Dishonored and Deus Ex would be all over this, yet still they don't bother. Could have been fantastic in MGSV as well.

I'd be keen on if every game made a push for it - making optional content less optional for higher difficulty play-throughs

 

[nkarafo]

It's certainly strange because, at the time, Halo was seen as a natural progression of the controls and gameplay introduced by GE and PD. As far as I recall, Edge explicitly mentioned that fact in their review of CE.

Turok 1 also had a similar scheme to how modern FPS games play on consoles today. So i wouldn't say Goldeneye/PD introduced it (let alone Halo 4-5 years later or something).

 

[Skronk]

Another thing Goldeneye does masterfully is hit reactions on the enemies.
They react differently no matter where you shoot them and have a huge amount of different animations and ways to die depending on where hit.
It really adds to the feel of the combat when enemies reacts so well.
It's a shame no other game has really managed to replicate this to Goldeneyes level.

In the butt was the best, they did a little hop but it didn't happen very often.

 

[nkarafo]

In the butt was the best, they did a little hop but it didn't happen very often.

The animation after shooting them in the dick though... pretty brutal. And you couldn't end their misery with a headshot since the death animation couldn't be interrupted.

 

[D.Lo]

Turok 1 also had a similar scheme to how modern FPS games play on consoles today. So i wouldn't say Goldeneye/PD introduced it (let alone Halo 4-5 years later or something).

It is very odd. Turok was even more like modern controls, with two 'stick' (dpad plus analogue stick) as the default option. Goldeneye was clearly the most popular shooter of the decade however, so it was clearly the game that popularised the genre on consoles.

 

[Ivan]

Goldeneye has the most satisfying shooting mechanics ever, I still can't believe today's games are often so poor in that area.

Animations, reactions, bullet impacts... Everything's there in a fantastic mix that makes every single shot enjoyable.

That should be the essence of a fun shooter.


Also, I encourage everyone to play it today in 1964 ultrafast emulator with 6x overclock option on.

You can experience it in glorious 60 fps which wasn't possible for the longest time.

Combination of that and modern controls on twin sticks (just select the right 2.x setup in the game) makes everything fantastic to play.

Don't miss this.

 

[nkarafo]

It is very odd. Turok was even more like modern controls, with two 'stick' (dpad plus analogue stick) as the default option. Goldeneye was clearly the most popular shooter of the decade however, so it was clearly the game that popularised the genre on consoles.

The problem with Goldeneye is that most people didn't even bother to look at the different control options. And the default one is kind of awkward, especially today. In the options you can find a scheme that is the exact same as Turok (d-pad/analog). This scheme can be found in all N64 FPS games actually or at least it was there in all the ones i played. Still, people saying Halo popularized these controls is pretty dumb. It did some refinements but the core control system was the same as in all those N64 shooters.

 

[Pandy]

Was playing it just a couple of weeks back.

Some of the game hasn't aged well, the level designs vary between good and archaic, but the core mechanics and gameplay are still superb.

Still my favourite offline FPS.

 

[TheMagician]

Imagine if the Gamecube launched with a remastered 480p/60fps version of Perfect Dark.

That so should have happened.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

Also, I encourage everyone to play it today in 1964 ultrafast emulator with 6x overclock option on.

You can experience it in glorious 60 fps which wasn't possible for the longest time.

Combination of that and modern controls on twin sticks (just select the right 2.x setup in the game) makes everything fantastic to play.

Don't miss this.

Have you tried the Carnivorous Edition ?

Supposedly, it's based on a more recent version of 1964 with a lot of bugfixes and stuff. It's working pretty damn nice on my end. Tested it with vanilla Goldeneye and a bunch of modded ones.

 

[Chubzdoomer]

I'm honestly surprised that adding additional objectives on higher difficulties didn't catch on.

Agreed. That was a great touch that added a lot of replay value.

I miss cheats, too... GoldenEye was full of them. Nowadays it's pretty rare for a shooter to even have one.

 

[D.Lo]

Imagine if the Gamecube launched with a remastered 480p/60fps version of Perfect Dark.

That so should have happened.

Yep. Essentially the Xbox got a foot in the door only by peeling off the N64 shooter market away from Nintendo. N64 was the original shooter box thanks to Goldeneye, Turok and PD.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

It's certainly strange because, at the time, Halo was seen as a natural progression of the controls and gameplay introduced by GE and PD. As far as I recall, Edge explicitly mentioned that fact in their review of CE.

Controls - yes!
Gameplay - not so much.

The Halo template ended up being the one adopted by FPSes thereafter, and I suspect it's because it's easier to adopt than GoldenEye's template. There's something about GoldenEye/PD's template that made it work best when you played as an Agent-type undercover character, I never really got on with it in all the Timesplitters games.

 

[FlyinJ]

The line of sight can choose to ignore the fences, it'd be like giving enemies a wallhacks for fences, ballistics on the other hand are a different story because the bullets are a physical object in the game, unless the game does bullet penetration or does what Goldeneye did i.e. have the bullets be hitscan and the hit getting registered based on line of sight.



Nope, a fence using a transparent textures is just a thin flat wall, if you actually model the fence then you are adding more detail which would require more polygons. It's kind of why details like chain linked armour are usually done by shaders like normal maps and parallax maps rather than using actual geometry. If Devs can easily use smokes and mirrors to achieve the same look using less resources then that's what they'll do.

You can have the engine analyze the texture map on the flat-textured fence object, and have bullets pass through the transparent alpha sections of the texture but collide with the solid sections.

Many games do this.

 

[RootCause]

I had no idea there was going to be a remaster, and that Nintendo blocked it. 😡
It would've solved the ak47 pencil like design.

 

[Danthrax]

I had no idea there was going to be a remaster, and that Nintendo blocked it. ��

The rumored proposal was that Nintendo would be allowed to sell the original N64 version of GoldenEye on the Wii's Virtual Console, while Microsoft would sell its HD remake version on Xbox Live Arcade.

Nintendo thought the HD version, complete with online multiplayer, would make its VC version look bad, so it said no to the deal. I can't say they were wrong in that opinion, but it still sucks for us.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

I had no idea there was going to be a remaster, and that Nintendo blocked it. 😡
It would've solved the ak47 pencil like design.

It still hurts so bad man :'(

 

[Jezan]

I hate pixel peeking. It's not realistic in the slightest. The shooters eyes don't spit out the bullet.

The perspective is not real either so they must compensate.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

We would have had this on Xbox Live if it wasn't for Iwata at Nintendo