Karsticles
Member
Shadowy horns with mist surround a shadowy figure. Out steps Mei with a friendly hello!
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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
That would be a pretty good reveal.
It's kind of ironic how mei is like the exact opposite of tf2 pyro in every way.
Best troll if that happened haha
part of Mewn's frustration with the character is that his own Genji isn't that strong, and if you've seen him play the character you'll know what I'm talking about
Genji is a character that if you're really good with, he's really freaking good, but he has a high skill cap and takes practice to get to those oppressive levels... Mewn at least lacks the practice
Mewn's experience with Genji mostly comes from the receiving end, and as such, he overstates Genji's OPness, tho I agree the character needs some downward adjustments... but he really does oversell it
there are comps and characters that absolutely can fuck with Genji, I've seen it done and I've had it happen to me personally
just the other day I had a triple tank comp where I was playing anub vs Genji in GM Hero League and the Genji got shutdown the whole game... the kicker is my team had already drafted 2 tanks and urged me not to pick Anub, even tho he's one of the best Genji answers in the game... go figure
generally speaking, beefy comps with point and click CC do really well against him, i think double supp does well against him too but many times people just aren't willing to draft this way because eww icky support playing or wahh i wanna be an assassin and do DEEPS
mewn will say there are no counters and that cleanse remedies all theoretical counters but that's really misleading, if you have enough CC a 60 sec cleanse isn't going to save a Genji who gets properly CC focused; that's even if you have ideal play on the cleanse which is almost never the case in HL as Mewn's argument suggests
the truth is so many people pick squishy comps or backline comps into genji, like solo tank or solo support (and mewn does this a lot) and then babyrage about brokenness
i mean if you pick into the character's strengths, yea, he's going to seem a lot stronger than he is. Genji is a hyper focused assassin that frankly does not do everything well and needs a proper comp to shore up some of his weaknesses, particularly in map control. compare him to Greymane, a character that has some of the highest DPS, poke, clear, and camp taking ability at all stages of the game but no, Greymane's not OP because he has a single escape skill? seriously, once you start comparing Genji to other top tier characters the case for him being absurdly broken or overpowered really isn't there
but regardless of people's willingness or ignorance to draft around Genji, i do welcome nerfs, because i think he's a fun character and it sucks hardly ever being able to play him in HL
found brian's alt account
literally li ming all over again.
If you draft the perfect comp and chain CC him 5 people together can deal with 1 hero
literally li ming all over again.
If you draft the perfect comp and chain CC him 5 people together can deal with 1 hero
No, it's addressed at this rediculous comment:
found brian's alt account
Is this a comment at me or are you just playing the game?
found brian's alt account
literally li ming all over again.
If you draft the perfect comp and chain CC him 5 people together can deal with 1 hero
No, it's addressed at this rediculous comment:
Okay the biggest issue with your argument is that you claim you can chain CC him to death. How often does that happen in pleb land outside of the top tier of players? Probably not ever.
Genji is oppressive and stupid. No where near Ming launch levels.
Oh my bad. I guess the sarcasm wasn't thick enough.
Nerf genji. We really don't need another extended period of a mandatory pick/ban overturned reset hero just because some people aren't good enough with it to realize how broken it is and for some reason think that pro level coordination of a well drafted 5 man squad is an adequate counter to a single hero.
Kil'Jaeden is not from Outland, and compared to Maiev he didn't spent there any time. And he never used portals like that. Any orc would be more sensible than him in this context.
Also whan it comes to comparing apperances even Akama fits better than Kil'Jaeden.
You took a wrong turn, this isn't the WoW OT. The people that post in here actually play this game (
some of them at least
Agree with this pretty much, he's prob the strongest hero atm but his power is way overstated
Im sorry I thought we were talking about Kil'Jaeden a WoW character
You win this time Rhak.
li ming used to do full dmg to buildings and had a lvl 4 talent that sucked ppl in like johanna w
her mana regen talent at 1 used to proc at 50%
and ppl still complained that it was her inherent playstyle that was oppressive smh.
it's the nova/valeera thing i brought up before, ppl get salty
her mana regen talent at 1 used to proc at 50%
and ppl still complained that it was her inherent playstyle that was oppressive smh.
it's the nova/valeera thing i brought up before, ppl get salty
Orochinagis
Member
There is a portal on the client now, nothing activates when you click it. looks like its an outlands character which may be Akama, Mannoroth, a Void guy, Garrosh or one of the Bird guys.
I would buy the hell out of her, like literally all stuff
I would buy the hell out of her, like literally all stuff
It's really not a nova valeera thing. Both of those heroes are bad. It's literally a li Ming thing thing. You know who else does full damage to buildings?
When was nova/valeera ever first pick/ban or even remotely difficult to deal with out side of QM?
Orochinagis
Member
Her heroic makes the enemy get sucked on her fancy bag
He's not as broken as Li-Ming or Xul on release. He has a much higher skill cap and requirement than them.
However, he is, absolutely broken, and let's stop with this 'people are dumb and can't draft against him' rubbish. He's first picked or banned in practically every pro level game I've seen in the last few weeks.
He is too strong. His deflect and mobility is too good, and its way too hard to punish him properly. He warps the meta massively, and is incredibly unfun to play against.
I
However, he is, absolutely broken, and let's stop with this 'people are dumb and can't draft against him' rubbish. He's first picked or banned in practically every pro level game I've seen in the last few weeks.
He is too strong. His deflect and mobility is too good, and its way too hard to punish him properly. He warps the meta massively, and is incredibly unfun to play against.
I
It is in the sense that both got nerfed pretty much completely based off of ppl having a bad time playing against them. Both heroes had plenty of counterplay but ppl really didnt care about that at all. Now genji is similarly being built up as this monolith that you cant do anything against. Which isnt remotely true
Valeera was on the cusp of being competitive but she got swatted.
im glad someone got the reference ;_;
Orochinagis
Member
I still have the bag.
Genji does not have plenty of counter play. Are you seriously saying that the options to deal with genji are in par with the options to deal nova/valeera? I can see how nova/valeera are such high priority picks then.
The problem is not that there is no response to genji the problem is that the response is disproportionately specific, difficult, and less effective then the options vs other heroes.... just like li Ming used to be.
Comparing genji to nova/valeera is joke. It has to be.
man fuck that bag
ur taking me out of context, im talking about the balancing that blizzard does
both nova and valeera were nerfed pretty hard based on community reaction. the community does not know how to deal with stealth heroes because it is hard to see them and they do burst dmg. samuro has a high winrate and he's one of the worst heroes in the game, for example. when ppl get beat on by nova/valeera they complain super hard.
when genji escapes you with e/d ppl complain
when genji kills your team with resets and ult ppl complain
when genji deflects a big move ppl complain
ppl are constantly focusing on how they are getting wrecked by genji, just like they were with li ming EVEN when she was a completely average hero. complaints like resets being inherently dumb. or things like "what's the point of her having low health if she sits in the back shooting for free". no one tries in this game anymore
the idea that genji is broken in the way zarya or kael or greymane or dehaka or li ming or tass in their respective broken times is ridiculous
both nova and valeera were nerfed pretty hard based on community reaction. the community does not know how to deal with stealth heroes because it is hard to see them and they do burst dmg. samuro has a high winrate and he's one of the worst heroes in the game, for example. when ppl get beat on by nova/valeera they complain super hard.
when genji escapes you with e/d ppl complain
when genji kills your team with resets and ult ppl complain
when genji deflects a big move ppl complain
ppl are constantly focusing on how they are getting wrecked by genji, just like they were with li ming EVEN when she was a completely average hero. complaints like resets being inherently dumb. or things like "what's the point of her having low health if she sits in the back shooting for free". no one tries in this game anymore
the idea that genji is broken in the way zarya or kael or greymane or dehaka or li ming or tass in their respective broken times is ridiculous
she still the best mage imo
i dont disagree at all w/ ppl who dont have fun playing against him, just the idea that he's this crazy wrecking ball that plays itself and that he's fundamentally broken. that's prime kael, not genji
i actually really appreciate this, ppl are doing teh same w/ stukov too
but to no surprise, no genji nerf from blizz in the latest patch probably because of this lol
hes def overpowered, but i bring up nova/valeera cuz it kinda encapsulates a lot of ppls response to him
The only three things inherently wrong with Genji are the following:
1) E going through terrain. He already has a skill that goes through terrain, this just make E too brain dead to use as a way to close in gaps or escape after diving.
2) The Dodge talent, I don't know why he has it. They nerfed it but people are still picking it because it's too good not to pick in most cases.
3) At lvl20 the heroic is obscene. I think I agree that the duration should be increased if you get kills, not when you damage heroes because otherwise you have situations where you get a small edge in team fight... the other team hesitates and moves back, Genji gets in and Dragonblade's whole team.
His damage is not that high without Dragon Blade, he's a sweeper/finisher rather than a main damage dealer on a team. He's not going to kill a couple of tanks by himself.
And I say this as someone who has won the last 5 games with Genji in a row, it's one of my most played heroes now. Usually when I die on Genji is because I made a mistake/overextended/miscaculated my cooldowns, if I want it's possible that I never die in a game (although then I would also miss out on some kills which is not something you should be doing as Genji, you need to secure the kills for the team). The times I lose is when the other team has a sturdy line up with Stukov. But in pubs people like to pick the high DEEPs assassins and don't want to support/tank.
1) E going through terrain. He already has a skill that goes through terrain, this just make E too brain dead to use as a way to close in gaps or escape after diving.
2) The Dodge talent, I don't know why he has it. They nerfed it but people are still picking it because it's too good not to pick in most cases.
3) At lvl20 the heroic is obscene. I think I agree that the duration should be increased if you get kills, not when you damage heroes because otherwise you have situations where you get a small edge in team fight... the other team hesitates and moves back, Genji gets in and Dragonblade's whole team.
His damage is not that high without Dragon Blade, he's a sweeper/finisher rather than a main damage dealer on a team. He's not going to kill a couple of tanks by himself.
And I say this as someone who has won the last 5 games with Genji in a row, it's one of my most played heroes now. Usually when I die on Genji is because I made a mistake/overextended/miscaculated my cooldowns, if I want it's possible that I never die in a game (although then I would also miss out on some kills which is not something you should be doing as Genji, you need to secure the kills for the team). The times I lose is when the other team has a sturdy line up with Stukov. But in pubs people like to pick the high DEEPs assassins and don't want to support/tank.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Genji probably needs to be nerfed but that rant is way overreaction or just playing towards the camera.
From my limited time playing genji, I think his strength is 2 fold in his E range and his Q range. Probably reduce his ult a tad.
But that guy basically had something to bitch about on every single move he has, like genji is broken in every aspect which he clearly is not.
From my limited time playing genji, I think his strength is 2 fold in his E range and his Q range. Probably reduce his ult a tad.
But that guy basically had something to bitch about on every single move he has, like genji is broken in every aspect which he clearly is not.
the why is he first ban first pick?
you are wrong about your balancing arguement because those nova/valeera didn't actually need nerfs. They did not need to be nerfed and yet still were because of the community reaction. Genji does not fall into this category. If he did then he wouldn't actually need nerfs right now, which you yourself have already admitted he does. And If he did he would not be first pick/ban in competitive. The vast majority of pro and high level players would not be calling for genji nerfs just like they never called for nova/valeera nerfs. For genji to be balanced for the same reasons nova/valeera were balanced he would have to be a bad hero first. And he's far from it.
This is not a low skill tier get good issue because you would be completely right about Genji not needing nerfs and people just needing to learn to play against him if he wasn't the only hero in the game that required that. The exact reason you're saying he's balanced is the exact reason he's op.
If we're gonna say current genji is not a problem and everybody just needs to elevate themselves/deal with it then we need to revert years of balance changes because that's not what this game is. A history of nerfs to heroes like illidan, thrall, KT, li ming, tracer demonstrates that balance philosphy does not include does not include the type of counter play you say genji needs.
Genji sticks out like a sore fucking thumb because we've seen this before, we not what it is, and we've been told repeatedly by the devs action that it's not allowed..... yet, they keep allowing it here... like somehow genji is different.
You should be able to retreat behind your keep to hearth! That Genji can E in, kill you, W, then E out is ridiculous in that situation!
There is no "counter play" here, because he gets to sweep up low health people with 0 risk to himself.
for me im pretty attached to the idea of e going through terrain, it's a big part of what makes him fun. killing ppl who are dumb enough to b behind the gate is his shit
the nerfs ive advocated in this thread are an e range reduction, reduction of dodge charges, and maybe a longer cd on dblade
the thing about removing or nerfing dodge hard is that he has a lot of great talents on that tier, like he'd still be pretty happy. but some of the interactions with dodge are pretty awful (malth, butcher, etc.) like im cool with blinds straight up countering malthael but it gets more iffy when it's built into a hero and they dont have to do anything. they could just give him something like elusive brawler i guess, but ppl would still be mad that their autos are missing, you cant really fix that. removing dodge wouldnt be too surprising since it causes a lot of rage for ppl
if anything were to be removed tho i feel like it should be shingan. it would take away an option he really doesnt deserve (siege, mercs, burning down stuff like dk or spider queen, insane dmg over a couple of seconds on heroes)
the nerfs ive advocated in this thread are an e range reduction, reduction of dodge charges, and maybe a longer cd on dblade
the thing about removing or nerfing dodge hard is that he has a lot of great talents on that tier, like he'd still be pretty happy. but some of the interactions with dodge are pretty awful (malth, butcher, etc.) like im cool with blinds straight up countering malthael but it gets more iffy when it's built into a hero and they dont have to do anything. they could just give him something like elusive brawler i guess, but ppl would still be mad that their autos are missing, you cant really fix that. removing dodge wouldnt be too surprising since it causes a lot of rage for ppl
if anything were to be removed tho i feel like it should be shingan. it would take away an option he really doesnt deserve (siege, mercs, burning down stuff like dk or spider queen, insane dmg over a couple of seconds on heroes)
man i feel like you are missing my point with the comparison. at no point did i say that genji the hero is like valeera/nova the hero. the comparison is that they are all heroes who receive inoordinate community disgust compared to what their hero kits allow them to do objectively. i am not comparing their kits, i am comparing them as really easy things to slap hyperbole on
no one says genji isnt a problem. he's the strongest hero in the game. but a shitload of ppl sure say there isnt anything you can do against him and that he is fundamentally broken by design. which is the same thing they said about nova/valeera. that is the extent of my comparison lol
i came up playing mobas with things like flash on every character and blink dagger so im prob more stockholm syndromed in this aspect, i like mobility in my mobas in general lol
i dont think e'ing away for free is bad because it's not free, he used his e to do no dmg and you now have a window to do w/e you want, but i get why ppl take issue with this